some close up's!

And here the family portrait, like you see is Paula very interested by gunongs! :D

Great little family of gunongs you have put together Detlef, but it seems to me that one is missing though. Didn't you have one with an ivory hilt that Jose did some restoration work on? Even being rather on the large size I still like the proportions and finish of your latest find. Quite a few of the larger ones that I have seen seem to be exaggerated in their features (bulky with harsh angles) while this one stays true to form. If we ever get a day with decent lighting I will post a photo or two of my very limited collection of gunongs to add to this thread. Thank you for sharing these with us.

Best,
Robert

there's something about gunongs: they are so simple, yet so elegant. nice set you got there, Detlef! on the latest member of your family, i really love the lamination pattern on that one! very, very controlled! if you don't mind me asking, what did you use as an etchant for it? one of this days, i will try to etch my gunongs just to see if they're laminated or not. i guess i just take them for granted which i shouldn't...

Hello Robert,

thank you and yes, one is still by Jose. And you are correct, the "new" one is surely worked for use and I would place it around 1930. It's a real fighter.
Curious to see your collection of gunongs.

Regards,
Detlef

Thank you Ron,

and I agree with you, it's a very controlled lamination, never thought to find it by this gunong. I've used a mixture from vinegar concentrate and citric acid mixed with water (20/80 %). Don't worry, I think that minimum 50% of all gunong blades are laminated.

Regards,
Detlef

Here the pictures of the restored gunong from this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong

Jose have done a remarkable job. :) The blade isn't laminated.

minor point: the grip is on upside down. other than that, good job.

My first thought as well, good observation. :) But the blade fit only in this position inside the scabbard. And have a look to the sheathed knife, this is the way they look when inside scabbard. ;) Maybe Jose can add his thoughts about this. ;)

Regards,
Detlef

Not sure why the blade was made "upside down" but this is what is it. The other unusual aspect is the way the scabbard was made. The okir style and the manner of execution do not seem to me to be as "professional" as other examples. I wonder if the artisan was Lumad or part Lumad, even though the motifs are Moro (perhaps Maguindanao). :shrug:

Thank you Jose. Will take some close ups from the scabbard tomorrow by daylight that the others can see what you mean.

Regards,
Detlef

Sorry, i don't understand what you mean by "upside down" Wayne. Do you mean that the handle bend is facing in the wrong direction. If so, while most seem to bend in a similar way i have seen a few that go the other way. I don't know if this is because of a left-handed use or what. :shrug:

in the wavy gunong and kris the point faces slighly down away from the center line as does the pommel. in the examples shown on the forum here this is true. on yours it is assembled so when the pommel points down, the point er, points up.

a little photoshopping to illustrate, plus my kris:

As I said, either this one is an aberration, or the artisan may not have been Moro. :shrug:

a possibility. as long as you are satisfied with it. a minor aberration. makes it more unusual.

When I tried reversing the blade, it didn't fit into the scabbard well nor would it fit the handle well. What you see not only is the best fit but seems to be the original fit and orientation.

Here a close up from the okir work at the scabbard.

Here some pictures which show from up to down a.: the fit now inside the scabbard, b.: like it is normally (no perfect fit), and c.: a close up from this

After I was outbid 2012 by this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong I was now able to acquire a nearly similar gunong, maybe from the same workshop, not antique, maybe WWII area, but very good worked IMHO.
Here are the pictures from the seller. Will post some more pictures when I have received it and have given it some maintenance.

Here both side by side for comparison.

Hello Detlef, I really like these knives and though not antique they are very interesting. Because of the good workmanship, nice form and the fact that it's so unique I had even put a modest bid on this when I first saw it, but I was quickly outbid. At least now you won't be as disapointed about not winning the first one seeing that you have been able to acquire this one for your collection. I agree with Rick when he said: "wouldn't this make a great visual deterrent to a potential attacker when seen from twenty feet away, or across a room ." I think that this would be especially true if the room wasn't well lit. I am looking forward to it arriving to see just how well made it actually is. Again, my congratulations to you for winning this most interesting piece.

Best,
Robert

i wasn't referring to how it fit in the scabbard, that usually is only one correct way. properly inserted in the scabbard for correct fit of the blade, the hilt, not the blade, would normally point the other way. it could be removed from the blade rotated 180 degrees and re-attached. all with the guard and blade in the scabbard correctly at best fit.

Hello Robert,

thank you for your kind words! :) When I look to the both side by side I tend to say that I like my one more, the mother of pearl inlays at the handle scales are very nice IMHO and the engravings on the blade are also very nice.
Regards,
Detlef

Hi Kronckew,

I understand what you meant but read again #56 what Jose has written. And when you would turn the handle by 180 degree the look inside scabbard will be unusual as well, see attached picture. And when I understand Jose correct it wasn't possible.

Best regards,
Detlef

It should be noted that the bend of the pommel does NOT always flow in the same direction on all gunongs. The ivory gunong on the left is a straight single edged variety. The one on the right is a wavy blade. Neither of these blades fit the sheath in the reverse direction so this is how they were made. I suppose it is possible that these differ do to righthand/lefthand preferences.
Regarding Wayne's comments on point direction, the wavy one does indeed have the direction of the point bending to the same side as the bend of the hilt, though i am always hesitant to claim "wrong" or "correct" when it comes to these daggers as i do not believe we really know enough about them to make such definitive statements. Just as the pommels don't always bend to the same side i am open to the concept that the point of the wavy dagger might also vary from time to time. :shrug:

One thing to remember is that the tangs on these are usually curved to follow the curve of the tang socket in the hilt. The tang on this dagger is curved in the opposite direction of the point of the blade unlike all of the ones that I have personally seen where the curve of the tang is curved in the same direction as that of the point of the blade. The tang will only fit properly into the socket in one direction unless you modify either the tang socket or the tang itself. I would suggest that this might have been ordered this way by the original owner. If being used in close quarters (with an upward stabbing motion say to the stomach area) having the blades point facing upwards might help in making it easier for the blade penetrate both cloth and flesh alike. JTOL

Best,
Robert

ithink i am having trouble explaining my comments. they had nothing to do with the scabard, the scabbard fit is a red herring. it only was about the point of the blade pointing down when held with the bend held in the grip/pommel in your palm in normal fashion.

whichever way the grip is attached to the blade, it will only fit the scabbard one way. the grip when detached from the blade, as in a keris, can be reattached pointing willy-nilly in any direction, restrained by it's geometry of course.

a square gunong tang with a square hole in the grip would only allow 4 directions, two of which would point the pommel away from the flat left or right side if the blade, and would be highly unusual orientations. the other two orientations place the pommel the same direction as the edges, the more usual of which is to present the last luk at the point towards the ground. the tip is thus below the centerline perpendicular to the guard.

i cannot find an image of one (or of a kris or keris) where it does not other than the one presented initially here which i believed to be an artefact of it's reassembly when it was restored by jose.

if it was indeed made this way and can only fit the pommel one way, it would be a rare one indeed. however, the photo of it's pre-restoration shows a straight tang and the other photos show a round hole in the grip.

Kronckew, I most likely have not seen as many of these disassembled as you have, but on everyone I have handled personally the blades tang would only fit into the hilt one way (where everything, blade, guard and hilt lined up properly) unless being forced. Here is a link to a gunong that I restored: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong You will see that just like the blade on the one Jose restored that there is a slight curve in the tang (opposite direction from Detlefs) and that the tang socket in the hilt itself looks to be mostly round (again like the one we are discussing) but the tang would only fit into the socket one way where everything would line up properly. As I personally did not do the restoration on Detlefs gunong I can only express my confidence in Jose and say that if the blade would have fit into the hilt on what is accepted as the normal direction (blade tip facing downwards) that he would have placed it that way.

Best,
Robert

'nuff said. as i mentioned earlier, as long as the owner is happy, that's the main thing anyway. my OCD is not important.

Agree here with Robert and think that Jose have enough knowledge that when it has been possible that he would has attached the pommel in the "correct" direction. Like said before, I have had the same thoughts like Wayne when I have received the gunong from Jose. But he assured that it was only possible like he has done it.

Regards,
Detlef

Wayne, he is! ;) I am sure that Jose has given the best. :) :cool:

Regards,
Detlef

Actually I tried the other way regarding the handle and tang. Didn't work: the best fit is the present one. Thus a truly unique piece indeed! (And I'm glad you're happy! :D )

:) :)

Finally I have received the pistol gunong. Well made blade with subtle lamination. Scabbard shows a lot of wear so I am sure that it was in use for some time. Here some just taken pictures after the piece has received some maintenance. Like said before, not antique but an interesting ethnograhic dagger with good age.

Here together with it's new friends at my Moro display.

Hello Detlef, I am very happy to see that this dagger has finally been released and is now in your possession. As I have previously had the opportunity to personally handle this dagger I can attest to how well it is made. Even if it is not of a great age I would be quite happy to have one like it myself. My congratulations to you for being able to add this very interesting and unusual dagger to your collection.

Best,
Robert

Hello Robert,
thank you for your kind words and your help that I can acquire this piece. :)

Regards,
Detlef

QUITE A NICE DISPLAY AND CONGRADULATIONS ON AQUIRING SUCH AN UNUSUAL KNIFE.
I SAW THIS EXAMPLE OF PISTOL KNIFE SELL A WHILE BACK AS A CIVIL WAR BOWIE WITH A 7 INCH BLADE. IT LOOKS VERY SIMULAR, SO I PUT IT HERE FOR COMPARISON. I WONDER WHEN AND WHERE THESE WERE MADE. PERHAPS SPANISH AMERICAN WAR ERA OR SHORTLY THERE AFTER? :shrug:

I think this is Philippine too Barry .
Mindanao ?

yup. philippines (mindanao). i notice the subtle ukil close to the handle..