Hi Guys,

As always I was too short! Let me add some facts:

First as Ariel said these swords don't appear in eastern collections... strange.

Second about the pommel and even the hilt, well you can compare the pommel to any dome or minaret from North Africa to Persia and India.
The ribbed domes are not specific to Central Asia. It's easy to check, you have plenty of books on architecture.

Third Yemeni in Bukhara, since the Arab conquest Yemeni are all over the place from North Africa up to India and even China! They were very influencial in religious studies. So Yemeni in Bukhara is not exceptional and not a proof that they brought back some swords to Yemen.

Fourth spiral design is found also on Ottoman scabbards and spiral banding on Indian swords most of the time to wrap up some textiles. So there is no proof that Bukharen invented this design...

Last two men who are not newbies commented these swords as yemeni, Robert Hales and Robert Elgood (he says Hijazi).
And yes I agree with you swords have no geographic boundaries and I like this discussion. The last example is really cool, from Solingen to India and ending up in Yemen...

You're right Kubur, this is a fun, and challenging discussion.
I think the case for these spherical pommel, shouldered or flared guard integral with grip swords being Yemeni is of course well known.
However, I don't think that it has been implied that somehow a Bukharen sword was brought back to Yemen, and suddenly all the Yemenis wanted such 'Bukharen' swords.

The point desperately trying to be made here is that this form of hilt was widely adopted THROUGHOUT the Dar al Islam, and examples in Bukhara, as well as through CENTRAL ASIA reflect the same styling.

While many of these examples are indeed Yemeni, they did not hold an exclusive patent on the design, and as often occurs, the influences did apparently diffuse via trade, diplomatic and other channels throughout regions from Arabia, the Middle East and Central Asia.

To reiterate, Bukhara was not the SOURCE of the designs, but ONE of the many regions which in varying degree adopted them.

In "Arts of the Muslim Knight" (ed. Bashir Mohammed) I attach three examples which show the collared hilt and spherical pommels and are identified as Central Asian and from 9th century. These are remarkably similar to the 'Yemeni' examples ; the Auctions Imperial example identified as 19th c. Bukharen; and others.

In "Two Swords from the Foundations of Gibraltar" by David Nicolle, the attached plate (#28) shows a bronze sword as late 10th, early 11th c. from a shipwreck and it is noted to likely be from Armenia or Azerbijian.
In the same article, a sword with remarkably similar style hilt is shown as Roman, 2nd c. AD.

So my question is, is it possible that the styling of these hilts developed from a quite ancient form or group of similar hilt features, became popularly known, and were adopted in numerous cultural spheres ?

So we are not saying that these hilts or affectations come FROM Bukharen influence, only that Central Asia apparently SHARED them, just as Yemen did.

Thank you Jim for your precise and so well documented response as always

To your question

IMHO I'll say yes of course.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mamluk

These hilt styles, often made with cast parts and a "cuff" extension over the blade are part of a larger family with roots in central Asia. Similar hilts can be seen on reliefs documented in Bishapur and dated to the reign of the Sasanian ruler Shapur I (241-272). I have seen some speculation there may be a Chinese influence but I have not ever seen anything convincing on that front.

Regardless, by the 9th century, this general form can be encountered throughout the Byzantine Empire as well, including areas of influence like Ukraine and Bulgaria.

As has been already pointed out on this thread, within the Islamic world the form also became widespread including within Mamluk arms. The basic form typically sees a metal cylindrical grip, often multi-faceted, a separate pommel and a narrow guard, often with a "cuff". The components are often secured with brazing.

These are an important overarching form which sees regional variations from central Asia, to Europe to Africa. The Yemeni examples are of course simply a long-surviving branch within the family tree.

Is the " Omani battlesword" a member of the same Central Asian family or a traditional double-edged straight sword of pre-Islamic/early-Islamic "Aravian" weapon? Did straight early Egyptian Mamluk swords with bulbous pommels come from Bukhara ( Khiva, Samarkand etc)?

Thank you Kubur!
Iain thank you for entering on this, and for well illustrating that the elements and features on this form and its variants were broadly represented throughout many regions and cultural spheres over many centuries.
The key point we can take away here is that a direct link or an identifiable line of specific influence between the forms of different areas is not typically possible. This is especially the case where no linear chronological examples with provenance are extant which show such development.

Ariel, in my opinion, the Omani battle swords (sa'if Yemani) are certainly members of the same family of these type swords with the 'cuff' being a most notable feature.

Byzantine influence on Bulgaria is undeniable in almost all aspects of culture, especially after the conversion to Christianity in 864 AD. However, when it comes to arms and armor it was usually the Eastern Roman Empire adopting the weapons and tactics of its neighbors and enemies, many of which at one point or another found themselves in the armies of the Basileus as mercenaries.

Here is the sword from the Malaya Pereshchepina burial, associated with Khan Kubrat of Great Bulgaria before Danube Bulgaria was formed. The hilt is basically a tube made of gold, with the ring pommel typical of earlier steppe swords. It is very much a "cuff" hilt design.

Back to the topic, from Al Kindi we know that Yemen was a major sword producing center at the height of the Abbasid power - in fact, he considers the Yemeni blades superior to pretty much all others. Unfortunately he does not give detailed descriptions of the hilts, but the way the blade size and shapes are described they are very close to the older Omani saifs. Yemen's relative isolation explains why an archaic broadsword form may have survived there longer than anywhere else, along with perhaps areas in North Africa where the saif badawi and its derivatives made it to the 20th century.

In contrast, Central Asia was anything but isolated, and its arms evolution much more rapid, with the saber becoming the dominant form by the 10th-11th centuries, if not even earlier.

Double posting, sorry.

I cannot judge Bulgarian/ Bysantine relations, but I trust Teodor’s knowledge and judgement.

As to the Yemeni/ Omani weapons, I have already fully agreed with him based on the same considerations. These “ Bukharan” swords do not look more than 200 years old at the most, and I am unaware of anything similar in Russian museums coming out of Central Asia despite their full control of that area since mid-19th century and even despite multiple lavish gifts of the local Khans and Emirs to the Tsar: they sent khandjars and shamshirs with Persian wootz blades and gold handles. I can fully believe that similar swords might have belonged to the Sassanian era, but after that, Persians ( the main influence on Central Asia) rapidly switched to curved sabers. To the point that they had to invent “revival swords” in the 19th.
My money is on South Aravia, Yemen especially.

Agreed, my point was simply that in a broader sense, these hilts were being found within these areas. One was even discovered in Poland a few years ago.

Returning a little closer to Yemen, similar hilts also turned up in Dongola, from the Makuria kingdom, clearly depicted in murals. I'm attaching an example here. The form is extremely similar right down to heavily engraved metalwork on the guard.

I see no reason to doubt a Yemeni attribution, these swords very much fit into a pattern of hilts found in the region for a thousand years.

Thanks to all involved so far and the excellent art works attached on the broad likelihood of influence involving the various swords mentioned .

I noted earlier that the Mamluke weapons some illustrated in Yemeni museums have the sweeping wide shoulders similar to the project weapon and show that here..

The clearly later recruit to this form may well be the group of 4 weapons below with apparently later back street hilts but built in a similar fashion but added here for interest.

Yemeni Jewish decorative hilts are often found on weapons pre the Jewish exodus of 1949 as depicted in the knife hilts shown below..

Pereshchepina sword
 

This is the 'Pereshchepina' sword written on in " On The Principles of Reconstruction of the Pereshchepina Sword" by Z. Lvova and A. Seminov
in "Arkheologicesksya Sbornik" Vol. 26, 1985.
It was discovered in what is described as a burial vault near Poltava in Ukraine, however no human remains were apparently found.

While this is believed to have been a gift from Byzantium to Khan Kubrat, it is interesting that the ring pommel style is remarkably similar to these featured on Chinese cavalry swords of Sui dynasty (589-628AD) and T'ang dynasty (618-906AD) well known in LoYang, Honan province, China.
The Pereshchepina sword appears 7th century and has Greek inscription.
Stephen Grancsay in 1930 wrote that there were examples of ring pommel swords with gilt hilts in these Chinese contexts (I do not have access to the article presently).

I would think this suggests the kind of diplomatic interchange across these territorial boundaries in which various elemental styles and features were diffused over vast distances and over long periods of time.

While this example IS in a Russian museum (Hermitage, St.Petersburg), therefore presumably viable as an example in this discussion, it reflects more the influences of the east and the Steppes in hilt features more than the 'cuff' design on hilts we are reviewing.
It is a fascinating example, and one that I have long considered intriguing among these swords well described in "The Long Sword and Scabbard Slide in Asia", Trousdale, Smithsonian, 1975).

Thank you Teodor for adding this here, it is great to see again!

With reference to Ibrahiim post #51, in "Arts of the Muslim Knight" (Furissiya, ed. Bashir Mohamed, 2008) these two swords shown are most pertinent to examples he has posted.

The first (p.37, #8) is a Samanid sword of 8th-9th century. It is noted swords with these U shape scabbard mounts excavated at Pendzhikent in Transoxiana dating from 8th c. Wall paintings in this site also reflect these type swords carried by Arabic soldiers. Another guard from al-Rabadah in Arabia with similar features dates 8-9th c.

Next, (p.79, #43) shows an Omani sword of 17th-18th c. with these kinds of cuff type features being discussed and well known on these sa'if Yemani, or Ibadi battle swords of Nizwa.
It states, "...sword hilts of this general type were popular over a long period of time and their documented associations suggest they are ultimately based on dhu-l-faqar the Sword of the Prophet." While the reference suggests these are of imprecise origins, suggesting possibly Mamluk /North African origins , some claiming 15th c. it seems most likely these are Ibadi and of Nizwa origin.

Some salient references to Yemeni attribution
 

From "Arms and Armour of Arabia " Robert Elgood, 1994 p.15
"...there are a number of Arab sword types that are loosely referred to as nimsha or sa'if which are usually attributed to the Yemen by collectors and cataloguers on the basis that the weapons of the area are not well known and they are therefore unlikely to be challenged on the attribution".

Further (op. cit.) "...it is not clear at present as to how widespread was the usage of certain types of hilt in the Arab world".

Referring to very early times, "The Armies of the Caliphs", Hugh Kennedy, 2001, p.173 notes:
" Schwarzlose has collected references to swords in early Arabic literature.
The best swords come from India followed by those made in the Indian fashion (muhannad) in Yemen which, along with Syria was the most famous center of manufacture. "

* "Die Waffen der Alten Araber aus Ihren Dichtern Dargestellt"
F.W.Schwarzlose, Leipzig, 1886

Further the author notes the 'Baylamani' swords, which were from either Yemen or India.
Then the Mushrafi which were from either Yemen or Syria.
According to al Kindi, (d.870 AD) the best swords were made in Yemen or Khurasan.

On p.175 it is noted a number of swords of late Sassanian times with straight blades apparently with no hand guards.

While it is well known that Central Asia was anything but isolated with the Silk Road and constant incursions, it does not seem that Yemen (which includes the broader southern regions of Arabia) was isolated either. If their swords (primarily blades) were so highly regarded, and apparently traded, there had to have been regular exposure to many outside regions.

The hilt styles which were traditionally known through most of these regions certainly carried certain degree of influence in these trade dealings, so may well have become established in Yemen as well as in the number of regions in Central Asia as previously discussed.

It does seem that the Central Asian presence of these type hilts is pretty well established in Central Asian context into 9th c. period, while as has been noted, there is a distinct paucity of record of hilt types in the Yemen.
This does not preclude many of these hilts being from Yemen, but neither can examples with Bukharen or Central Asian attribution as per iconographic references.
It is not a matter of which influenced the other, but that they appear to have been inspired by similar influences.

Hello Jim, and thank you for the superb references and general round up with a great couple of pictures of the Omani Batrtale Sword often called Sayf Yemaani. These are sometimes referred to as related to Swords Of The Prophet and your illustrations are covered in typically Omani decoration and even a hint of a zig zag at the edge of the cuff. The three holes in the hilt handle were apparently for rivets through a central core of wood and the top hole was for a wrist cord apparently. The sword example in the Al Ain Museum has the two holes in the shoulder of each Quillon as a decorative anchor point for silver adornment. These short stiff chopping and slashing blades were used in conjunction with the famous Ters Rhino hide shield. The weapon like so many Arabian weapons didn't evolve or change since it worked thus over centuries it has remained the same except when Saiid the Great had it immortalized with the Iconic Royal Hilt in a similar way to the Royal Khanjar.
Given that this may well be a relative of the Sword of The Prophet and as you note it seems most likely these are Ibadi and of Nizwa origin. There is a strong possibility that the weapon came along with the religious form or in its wake...and that would indicate an earlier date possibly around 751AD and with Ibn Julanda the first Immam and Leader of Oman. It therefor becomes very tempting to suggest an earlier date of say another 100 years making this weapon style close to the actual passage to Oman of Islam ...and likely to be strongly associated with Nizwa the religious centre .
The other key EAA pages to consider with this conundrum are http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=Sayf+Yemaani

I place similar Examples and one with an as yet untranslated roundel style stamp and with the zig zag line as your sword shows. The grip and Pommel follow a Mosque/ Minarette style with multiple sides and the unmistakable arched pommel dome.

Elgood’s book on arms and armour of Arabia came out in 1994, almost 30 years ago.
Since then several books addressing narrowly defined topics ( i.e. Yemeni Janbiyas, specifically Omani weapons, North African bladed weapons) were published and internet Fora had multiple discussions of different physical aspects of Arabian swords and daggers, their history, their typology, uncovering formerly unknown examples etc,etc . In short , we have gotten so much of new information that a new book covering the whole panoply of historical weapons of the Arab world is absolutely needed.

Either Elgood might re-write his book as an expanded second edition or somebody else might assemble a group of people with good knowledge of a particular variety of ethnic weapons to be assigned well-defined chapters.

I think the time is ripe for such an enterprise.

I’ve been working on this for years now. Shibriyas are my current focus with barely any progress. So many types with little info.

Talk to Motan on this forum. He collects shibriyas and is well-informed about them.

Yemeni Sword
 

Quite a beautiful Yemeni sword. I saw this online yesterday. Not great photos. I question the attribution for the 1500’s. The decorations are too similar to the other examples we have that were likely made within the last two centuries.
That’s quite a hefty price as well.
See the description below.



Item Overview
Description
A sword (saif) with flat slightly tapering double-edged blade, on one side with inscriptions in naskh script, the green mina enameled silver hilt with ribbed pommel, the guard and the grip carved with floral decorations. The leather covered scabbard body with two belt attachment rings, the locket and chape with a similar green mina enameled and silver carved decoration with traces of gilding. Length: 106 cm. Early swords from the Arab cultures use to employ straight heavy blades. Curved shamshir style swords were adopted by many Arab communities and cultures around the 10th century, but in two places – Oman and Yemen straight blade swords continued to be used. The well known Omani Kattara sword was in use well into the 20th century. Its Yemeni “sister” is much less common. The Yemeni sword with straight blade follows the style of earlier Islamic swords. Quite similar to Mamluk swords from the 13th century, not only with its straight blade but also the handle style with a ball shaped or similar rounded pommel. Use of early European blade is also common to these swords. PROVENANCE Private collection, France. CATALOGUE NOTE Badr Abu Tuwaireq, Badr bin Abdullah bin Ali bin Omar Al Kathiri, one of the greatest sultans of the Kathiri Sultanate. Born in 1494, one year after his grandfather Jaafar occupied al-Shihr. He assumed the sultanate after his father in 1520, but the ambition of his brother Badr left him no room for action. He is considered the first Hadhrami sultan who persevered in unifying the regions of Hadramout and Mukalla. During his reign he reached the farthest limits of the Kathiri Sultanate. He knew that every tribe could declare its disobedience and rebellion and isolate its small areas of rule, harming the great unity of Hadramout and the region. As soon as the year 1520 passed, Abu Tuwaireq was the de facto ruler of Hadramout, and his brother Muhammad remained the ruler of Dhofar. However, Abu Tuwaireq wrested Dhofar from his brother in the year 1540. He became the ruler with the entire Kathiri state after he made his brother Muhammad ruler of the city of Al-Shihr, worked to form an army from other forces made up of the Turks of the Ottoman army, during the period of Caliph Suleiman the Magnificent, as well as from Jabal Yafea and their loyalists, and from some northern Yemeni regions, in order to be assured of their obedience and non-rebellion, and to fight the rebellious tribes against him in Nahd and Hamum. During his reign of nearly 50 years (died in1569) had many wars with the Doan tribes, headed by the sheikhdom of the Amoudi family and Siban under the leadership of Sheikh Othman bin Ahmed Al-Amoudi Governor of the Doan Valley. Many of the tribes of Yafaa migrated during his reign to Hadhramaut and remained there to this day.
Condition Report

Condition reports and high resolution pictures are available on our website at www.orientalartauctions.com If you have any questions, feel free to contact us at info@orientalartauctions.com

I doubt the 16th century attribution as well, but it is the nicest one of these I have personally seen.