Thank you Alan and JustYS.

This has been very helpful, but some central questions are still circling in my mind. I'll return to this in the coming days when time is more permitting and I've thought about how to express my questions in a better way.

Jaga, if my explanation was inadequate, I apologise for this lack of clarity. I can perhaps understand why this might be so, and possibly a further exploration of the way in which the word "wanda" (wondo) needs to be understood might help.

In my earlier post I wrote this:-

"--- The second thing that must be achieved in level two of understanding is how to detect the feeling generated by a keris."

The word "wanda" is a word that is rarely used in colloquial Javanese, it is a word that is more often found in a literary context, & most particularly in relation to commentary on the wayang.

The way in which it must be understood is relative to the physical appearance of a character in the wayang, & the feeling that this physical appearance generates in the viewer, this physical appearance is then taken as an indicator of the character or nature of the wayang character.

So, for those who understand the wayang, certain characteristics of a wayang character will convey information about the wayang character, the hairstyle, the type of nose, the colour, the pose, all these things & others, will tell the viewer who is educated in the wayang the nature of the wayang character, whether that character is rough, crude, refined, regal, cruel, brave.

But for somebody who has no education in the wayang, all these characteristics mean next to nothing, he has nothing upon which to base his understanding except perhaps a vague general feeling.

Now, when we use the word "wanda" in relation to a keris, we are talking about the feeling that is generated by what the viewer can see, remember, this is a journeyman viewer, he has already perfected his understanding of how to apply the concepts of the tangguh system, now he is trying to understand the possible character of the keris based upon what he can see, not based upon what he thinks he might be able to feel, his education & experience at the point he finds himself at is not yet sufficient for him to truly feel anything with adequate clarity.

So, to repeat:- understanding the wanda of a keris is understanding based upon the physical appearance of the keris.

If the viewer ever progresses to level three of keris understanding, his understanding of the feeling generated by the keris, if it exists at all, will be based upon the feeling of simply being in the presence of the keris, or perhaps of holding the keris but not seeing it. The understanding will be generated by vibration of the keris, not by its appearance.

It should be very clearly understood, that in the opinion of most, if not all, true ahli keris, nobody can expect to arrive at this level three of understanding in the absence of a thorough understanding of level one & level two requirements, & even then, not all keris will generate a vibration.

IMVHO this is a segaluh keris (west Java)

Yes, the keris shown in post #2 is classifiable as Segaluh.

Alan,

You have written here that there is a specific, perhaps spiritual, "sense" about a keris that the most learned of keris experts can achieve. This "sense" is highly subjective, and may vary from individual to individual regarding a particular keris. Your stories about one of the keris in your possession and the reactions of two individuals with particular "spiritual" gifts raises some interesting cross-cultural similarities with other Malay cultures (defined broadly). I don't wish to sidetrack this thread with discussion of Moro beliefs around spirits (gin) that inhabit their weapons and create spiritual personas for them, but have two specific questions for you about your Indonesian experience.

Does the principle of wanda in a general sense apply to any other Indonesian weapons or just to the keris? Could one of the spiritually gifted individuals you described pick up a parang or pedang and feel a similar spiritual experience, or is this just confined to the keris in Indonesian culture?

Regard,

Ian

Thank you for this question Ian.

The concept of "wanda" is that the outward appearance of something can create an internal feeling in the viewer.

This can apply to anything.

Let's say you have this really enormous, ugly Rottweiler, people see you walking your dog down the road, and they just automatically cross to the other side.

That's wanda in action, that great big cuddly pussycat of a rotty is everybody's buddy, he's more likely to lick you to death than to bite your leg off.

The operational auditor who walks into your office unannounced might look like Satan Incarnate to you, but actually his hobby is embroidery and one of his greatest joys is flower arranging, weekends he helps out down at the homeless shelter.

Wanda is the internal effect of visual perception. It is not really a spiritual thing.

So yes, it can apply to weapons such as swords & etc.

Thank you Alan! Your keris that produced unusual reactions from your spiritually gifted friends was presumably affecting them in a way that was different from wanda. I assume that these two people were not highly trained jn the traditions of the keris, and they were reacting to something other than its appearance.

Ian, the gentleman who had been a spiritual advisor to President Sukarno held high interest in the keris, he collected keris and had a considerable collection of keris, however he was not an ahli keris, & to my limited knowledge he had only very slight knowledge of the aspects of the keris that underpin keris knowledge, understanding & belief in Central Jawa.

My neighbour was a Hungarian, he had no knowledge of keris at all.

So, it would be fair to assume that something other than what could be seen did generate the results of these men handling that particular keris.

It should be noted that in the case of my neighbour, the keris itself flew violently from his hand as soon as he attempted to pick it up, he did not throw it, or drop it, he attempted to pick it up and it flew and hit the wall --- actually it hit the wall quite hard, my house at that time was an old stone house, the internal walls were hard plaster on stone, the keris hitting the wall chipped the plaster.

What happened with the presidential advisor was that I handed the keris to him, he took it by the hilt, but as soon as he touched the blade he reacted as if he had been burnt and he dropped the keris on the floor.

This keris has no real effect on me at all --- other than as previously described, & that is only a very faint "maybe" reaction, and it has been handled by other people, again with no effect.