Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Half of a Morion (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26847)

fernando 4th April 2021 07:06 PM

Großartig, Andreas :cool:.
So ... the Swiss also had it.

AHorsa 4th April 2021 07:20 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Großartig, Andreas :cool:.

:)

And the French, as this engraving of the Bartholomaeus-night in 1572 shows.

Kind regards
Andreas

fernando 4th April 2021 07:53 PM

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As per François Dubois ---


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Jim McDougall 4th April 2021 09:05 PM

Great stuff guys!!!
Fernando that particular art work is probably one of the best known of the soldados. That short jacket cuera was indeed in vogue in 1803 and its use continued even after Mexico's independence from Spain in 1821.
Actually troops of these soldados went from the presidios of SW Texas to the Alamo in 1836, and still using much of the equipage from the previous century (NO, they were not wearing morions! :).......OK OK back to those!

Good note on the leather versions. During the cuera research back a few years, I was communicating with the Univ. of Nebraska, where the battle involving the cuera took place. They had come across a leather 'bishops mantle' found along with a leather helmet just outside El Paso. It had been discovered about 1880s and been placed in the museum, but never been studied. Original ideas were that it was from Coronado, or more likely Onate's time, but inconclusive.

Indeed the Swiss had morions (combed) and their Vatican guards are well known for their colorful uniforms. Actually, these became well known throughout Europe in the 17th century. The point of the original discussion here is just how early were these known in Portugal and Spain, and as noted, many artists have depicted them on the earliest explorers, including Cortez, Pizarro, and others in what is regarded as 'the age of exploration' (1492-into mid 1500s).
It appears, as I have suggested in noting comments of the late Walter Karcheski, et al, that these combed morions did not become popular until after 1830s, and then quite gradually popularized.

What has always been remarkable about the Spanish explorations and colonization in the America's is that typically very traditional arms and armor were distinctly favored, and kept in use almost relentlessly until the conditions demanded other options.
These largely private expeditions (not originally funded by the Crown) used whatever arms that could be privately obtained, largely a 'hodge podge' of forms.

The use of the sword, and later primarily the lance, became primary weapons as guns became unserviceable without necessary maintainance, and lack of powder was prevalent.

gp 4th April 2021 09:54 PM

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Originally Posted by AHorsa
What an interesting discussion, gentlemen!
I just found this contemporary depiction of a soldier wearing a (comb)Morion in the thirty years war.

Kind regards
Andreas

just FYI: as the Netherlands are mentioned in one of the pictures (by van Stolk) , it was for us ( I am Dutch) the 80 year war 1568-1648 in which approx. 6 Sieges of Maastricht took place ( out of 28 from the city's complete history between Julius Cesar and Napoleon) in which it changed hands plural times between Spain and Holland.
Carlos V had his palace right on the square where Andre Rieu is now playing each year...☺

The most severest battle was when Farnese, the Duke of Parma, lead the Habsburgian forces ( a historical novel has been written titled "and then all hell broke loose").

FYI: the painting can be found in the Royal Palace of Aranjuez

gp 4th April 2021 10:16 PM

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some more pics

fernando 5th April 2021 05:25 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
... Fernando that particular art work is probably one of the best known of the soldados...

Yes, Jim; a watercolour by (not so known) Raymundus àMurillo, dated early XIX century, depicting an early XVIII century soldado cuera, kept in the Indias Archive in Seville.
The caption tells that this 'short' cuera was made with 7 suede skins in the quilted manner. Initial cueras were as large as down to the knee, and had wonderful decorations in their seams and pockets (per Jesuit father Pferffek); with vents in the front and back to make it easy for the mounting and sleeveless, not to embarass weapons handling; but still too heavy, with 12 to 15 pounds. In the provinces of Coahuila, Nueva León and Texas a version using padded cotton was used, but its efficacy was lower than those with 7 skins. Even so an arrow shot by a strong native could get through a 8 skin cuera.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
... The cuera seem to have evolved from these buff type liners which effectively buffered the mail, which was far more common than the steel cuirass.
With mail, it however quickly deteriorated without proper maintainance, and was terribly ineffective against arrows which spread and broke the rings, especially if corroded and brittle. Soon the mail was discarded, and the leather took over...

That's how it all started, ever since the conquest period; however not discarding the mail but the cuirass, according to a comprehensive and irrefutable work sponsored by the Ministery of Defence, written by José Maria Bueno "Los Dragones Cuera" (PDF below ... in Spanish :shrug: ).
Looks like the Spaniards were encouraged by the cuera resource by a similar implement worn by natives, especially the Aztecs, in quilted cotton.
In 1779 lieutenant D. Luis Bertucat created his own version of cuirass, made with imbricated lamellae of tin. It was rather lighter than the cuera and more effective against arrows, as per tests carried out in Chihuahua. He produced 50 units covering his own the costs, which equipped Croix's personal guard. Having proved to be useful in a 1780 combat, they were no further produced, with reasons unknown by the miltary. The author has never seen on of these devices.


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Philip 5th April 2021 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
In the provinces of Coahuila, Nueva León and Texas a version using padded cotton was used, but its efficacy was lower than those with 7 skins. Even so an arrow shot by a strong native could get through a 8 skin cuera.

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Olá, Nando
You provide some interesting background info. I think the padded cotton is not necessarily lower than the layers of only skin, based on experiments conducted by archer friends in the Netherlands, who were serious about traditional Eastern archery. He says it all depends on how thick the quilting was.

Shooting tests with pointed steel arrows shot from reasonably heavy bows demonstrate some surprising things. I was with one of these friends, shooting in a gym that had theater-stage curtains on the far end, separating another portion of the hall. Guys were shooting at various targets, including the usual straw butts, and doing tests against wood boards. Same arrows from same bows, which could easily penetrate an inch or so into a board, just bounced off the curtain, hardly leaving a mark on the cloth!

During the 1594 Japanese invasion of Korea, the defenders developed a quick and easy to make armor for foot-soldiers, made of quilted layers (about 30) of coarse rice-fiber paper. It easily stopped arrows, and even
musket balls. The ancestor of the Kevlar vest.

The Mongols wore a shirt of well-woven silk under their armor. If an arrow pierced the armor, the silk kept the point from going very far into the body, so someone could break the arrow shaft, remove the armor, and gather the folds of the shirt around the arrowhead and pull it out, leaving a more superficial wound that might mean greater chances of survival than if it went deep into tissue, or an organ.

I'll leave it to a physics guy to explain why arrows, which are so good at breaking through the links of chain mail or sticking deep into wood and harder materials, can be stopped so easily by soft things like quilting and curtains.

Filipe

fernando 6th April 2021 12:06 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip
Olá, Nando
You provide some interesting background info. I think the padded cotton is not necessarily lower than the layers of only skin, based on experiments conducted by archer friends in the Netherlands, who were serious about traditional Eastern archery. He says it all depends on how thick the quilting was.. .

That would certainly be right, Filipe. The sentence in the article is not about the principle but the specific way those three provincial cuera variants were made. It is put in a simplistic manner, that could imply in a not so thick cotton interlining between two layers of leather, in comparison with the 'standardized' multi layers .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip
...The Mongols wore a shirt of well-woven silk under their armor. If an arrow pierced the armor, the silk kept the point from going very far into the body, so someone could break the arrow shaft, remove the armor, and gather the folds of the shirt around the arrowhead and pull it out, leaving a more superficial wound that might mean greater chances of survival than if it went deep into tissue, or an organ...

So true ... and probably the same happens with bullets. The intensively wooven silk, instead of tearing apart, penetrates into the body in a form of a pocket, allowing for an easier way to extract the projectile and leaving no particles of material. Cocoon silk is amazing; the longest existing natural thread, so fine that allows for a rather thight weaving. It has an extremely high resistence, only supplanted by spider web silk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip
... I'll leave it to a physics guy to explain why arrows, which are so good at breaking through the links of chain mail or sticking deep into wood and harder materials, can be stopped so easily by soft things like quilting and curtains...

I am glad i am no physicist, so that i can speculate at will. Hard immobile materials offer far more resistence to the impact, letting the projectile perforate them, while soft moblie stuff reduces (cushions) the blow. How's that for an ignaro ? :rolleyes:

And speaking of cueras (buff coats) and still hijacking Andreas thread, let us upload hereunder the harquebusiers attire of a noble person, Dom Pedro II King of Portugal (reigned 1683–1706)
(Courtesy of The Met)


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Jim McDougall 7th April 2021 03:21 AM

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All extremely interesting on these other elements of armor and the contexts surrounding the conquistadors. If I may, I wanted to return to the original topic on the morion, and its actual appearance in the America's with them.

As I had mentioned earlier in the discussion, the catalog by Walter Karcheski of the Higgins Armory Museum for the Florida Museum of Natural History (1990) had noted the morion was not used until later in the explorations. I received this from Kathleen Deagan, the director of the museum in 1998 as I was researching Spanish colonial weapons.

As noted (7a, pictured) , "...Hollywood notwithstanding, the classic morion as shown here evolved too late to have been used by early conquistadors".
These would include Cortes; Pizarro; DeSoto, Coronado in first half of 16th c.mostly c. 1540s.

In 'Karcheski' re: DeSoto, "..he was probably dressed in a field breastplate and the 'favorite' helmet of the early conquerers- the open burgonet with a bevor".

It is noted that infantry wore a simple headpiece such as a skull cap or sallet, many wore a removable defense called a barbera (BEVOR) on the lower face.

However, in the tropical climates armets and close helmets saw only limited use...............light and airy headpieces like skullcaps, sallets and burgonets and the LATER morion and cabasset were preferred by foot soldiers and horsemen alike.

fernando 8th April 2021 02:19 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
... If I may, I wanted to return to the original topic on the morion, and its actual appearance in the America's with them...

By all means, Jim; as such theme is in fact fully related with this Andreas thread. Concerning the 'variant' of the morrion first entrance in America that you first raised in post #27 i, for one, take it as no valid to further refute your documentation in that it has only showed up by late XVI century; hence i say, so be it.
Not only for keepng to persist with the (academic ?) perspective of some fourty years span in all history of the morrion and its variants, but also for the devious appearance of these exuberant helmets being depicted as equipping, from the simplest soldier to the most famous knight, who were around in times that the morrion didn't even exist; not only by artists of modern days but also,which i found hard to swallow, by contemporary authors.
I would again stick to experts in the subject and will here show and tag the evolution of the morrion, incuding its predecessors and relatives, extracted from a WRITTEN WORK by Juan Molina Fernadez, a Spanish expert in XVI century military history.

1 - Capacete (helmet) with gusset from the end XV century, of Aragonese origin.
2 - Borgoñota (burgonet) from circa 1540, possibly German, with a characteristic peak on the skull top. The burgonet added from the salade mobile parts in the neck and ears as also a visor.
3 - Borgonet “hybrid” from 1540, already with a high resemblance to soon coming morrions. Practically a morrion with 'earmuffs'. It has a crest and wings/visors both in the front as in the back.

As from 1545 experimental versions of the morrion start to appear, and in 1550 a significant number started to be seen in all Western in Europe.

4 - Early morrión, of conical body and without crest (comb), from around 1550. We see here the baisis of its desing, two warped brims that protect descent blows but, different to burgonets, don't protect the sides.

Despite their popularity, burgonets didn't disappear, due to their better protection features.

5 - Italian morrion possibly of an officer, circa 1580-1590. Morrión italiano, posiblemente de oficial, de 1580-1590. The warping of the wings visibly exagerated and it becomes usual the crest to reinforce the structure.
6 - Capacete for an officer dated 1550 y 1560. Different from the morrión,
has a completely flat basis and the brim is a sole circular piece.
7 - Morrión (originally blued) from 1570 with cheek pieces, belonging to the Saxony electors from 1570. This model became very popular, due to the improvement of sides protection. As from the XVII century, the morrion tends to simplify, due to indreasing military production, specially with the arrival of the thirty years war. The major change was the progressive loss of the crest (comb), this becoming no more than a sagittal brim, to reinforce the structure for the year 1635.
8 - Morrión of an English pikeman from 1640. We may observe the progessive simplification of then lines, eliminating the crest and rounding up the superior section of the casket; and the cheek pieces are made of only one piece.

This search for the simplification makes capacetes being more common in the XII century that in the XVI at being more simple to produce. Therefore, the progressive design of the morrion makes it that both models come around a version of "morrion-capacete", as from the 1650 decade. As from then, the morrions fell in disuse, giving place to capacetes.

9 - The morrión-capacete from 1650 of the English infantry. The simplification of the construction drove to the unification of casket models, which will last until the end of XVII entury.


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fernando 8th April 2021 05:44 PM

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Also one may see consistency with Bashford Dean's chart.


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