Perhaps you have misunderstood me, but I do not think you are correct. Allow me to explain. What would traditionally be done/appreciated by traditional kris appreciators (ie oceanic SE Asians) is not, at least to my understanding AT ALL to put say a Bali kris in Bali dress. Not at all not at all; rather to put whatever blade you get in the dress native to you, the owner (caretaker, etc....). So in the past if/when a Javanese acquired a Bugis k(e)ris and he considered it worthy to keep, he might conceivably leave it in whatever dress it came with, but he would certainly not get the idea, (say it were naked or poorly dressed or he couldn't stand/comprehend its dress) that the proper thing to do would be to dress it Bugis style; no, I cannot see that; he would dress it Javanese.

Hi Tom,

I don't think we are in disagreement. I think we are just talking about different things. I agree fully with what you said here. That's why the Javanese blade ended up in the Terengganu sheath, and why Hang Tuah would have redressed Taming Sari in a Malay-style sheath.

The sheath in which the kerises are dressed in would no doubt be adherent to the 'adat' of the new owner's culture. I.e. while the blade is foreign, the dress is traditional.

Adat defines a Solonese sheath, which would be different from the adat that governs a Yogya sheath, from a Gayo sheath, from a Pattani sheath, from a Minang sheath, etc etc.

Here is the pics of the top of the ganga, but likely done when doctoring the keris. Sorry about the quality but its probably meaningless.

Maybe it was something like this before...

Alam Shah, would think that is the effect someone attempted to copy, the gandik area was intentionally pitted, likely to hold some gold there also. Empu Kumis posted this link: http://www.maritimeasia.ws/topic/iron.html , that seems to touch on "trade blades". Can anyone supply more on this, time periods, other swords? What was the demand for these keris if the customer is once or twice removed from the Empu, sort of deminishes the mystic aspect, & the keris does'nt seem to be the best weapon. Is there a "standard" or examples of what is typical about the trade blades. If only brittal Chinese iron was used would they not generally lack pamor & brake easily if used?

Trade blade...
 

Bill, see this link. An example of another trade blade (assumed to be, after some discussion).
There are some opinions on trade blades.:)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...2&page=1&pp=30

I've found several referances to the Bugis making swords for trade, but don't know if they traded keris. I'm sure that as they migrated they took personal keris with them, add the Javanese trade blades & thier is sure to be some debate.

There seems to be some confusion over the concept called "trade k(e)ris"; it seems to have two different definitions referring to seperate categories (though there may be some overlap); the "bundle" kris, of (in, evidently, varying degree) a more mass-produced nature than an ordinary k(e)ris, all 20 forged in a single session, and with at least less attention and concentration on the proper rituals (kind of like trying to make love to 20 women at once I should think; a common fantasy that has always seemed as silly to me as dogs chasing cars); and the term is also being used to refer to blades that were originally/long ago sold off-island. BTW, I have heard that the spirit in a k(e)ris doesn't like to/can't cross water; any info? Doesn't sound true to me. Mind you I dont mean it doesn't sound like a genuine cultural belief; what I mean is it doesn't sound like the way spirits in blades behave to my experience....and if the natives take it seriously, why do they move the blades around so much? And how could they carry them to war? (I understand that even the "oh, no it's a religious artistic talisman, not a [shudder] weapon" crowd don't dispute that k[e]ris were carried to war, for their magical properties, if nothing else) Not every war is among the people of a single island, of course.

AFAIK, the Bugis are sea-faring people. That's why their existence are found around coastal regions across the Malay archipelego. They traded (and some are pirates, too).
> I have heard that the spirit in a k(e)ris doesn't like to/can't cross water; any info? Doesn't sound true to me.
Maybe the spirit is a "non-swimmer" :D.
Seriously, not that I know of, (i may be wrong). What I've heard is that certain types of materials (eg: "besi kuning"); some belief that if the owner falls in the water, it makes the bearer sinks. And in some circumstances, can make the boat sink. I've yet to hear about keris, though.

Thanks. It's just something someone mentioned to me in passing, with no in-depth; he said some natives believe it; that's all, but he is a person who is generally very knowlegable about this area.