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Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)

- Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - Back to Laz Bicagi (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28048)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boleg (Post 280443)

I am sorry if continuing this discussion is against the format of the website but as a Turk I just couldn't hold back considering the wild and completely unfounded claims this guy was making about a region he does not understand.

KAMA is a Turkish word, no etymology in Armenian. In Turkic it probably comes from Kakma(k), meaning pushing or in this case stabbing. And even if we take it as Armenian it doesn't help your argument at all it still came to the Balkan Slavs via Ottomans?

Baba simply means dad in Turkish no argument to be had here

Baba is also used in Turkish to define things that are big and mighty, so maybe here in this instance it was to denote that the kama was big!
The word kama is used everywhere in Turkish Ottoman empire, not just the Caucasus and Balkan region which again means it has nothing to do with Russians, and besides the word Kama doesn't even exist among Russians.

I am sorry if I offended you but nationality doesn't mean automatically one is a specialist on knowlegde or the only one entitled to comment, nor does it imply others are talking nonsense.
We all are to be very careful in claiming this ...

Although you do not know me at all, if I follow your thought that I am ignorent of your region, and I do not feel offended by "this guy" let me first wish you Ramazan Mubarak, Effendi !☼

I could refer to your great Dede Korkut "Kara saçuŋ dolaşmışını daraġ yazar." but think that to be not contributing much to our discussion and rather would prefer and like to invite you to meet me conform "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there." as written by the great man in Konya... Mevlana.

As for baba, yes in Turkish it is male but in Slavic:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...to-Slavic/baba

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0

so let us respect eachother and not just jump to conclusions too early and too fast, arkadash!

"You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop." (Rumi)

best regards

Gunar

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel (Post 273416)

AFAIK, all Balkan bladed weapons were at the very least heavily ( or totally) influenced by their Ottoman counterparts. The obvious exceptions are Croatia ( partially) and Slovenia ( largely free). Those two stayed within the borders of Western Christian dominance, whereas the rest were totally or at the least significantly influenced by Islam and 100% controlled by the Ottomans. All historiographic and iconographic sources confirm that crucial distinction.
What artistic signs of Greek military tradition are we talking about? Greece was a Roman province for ~6-7 centuries and under Byzantine rule for yet another millennium. After that it just happened to fall into the Ottoman division of the Balkans. Overall, between 2nd century BC and 19 th century CE Greece was just a province of mighty foreign empires. It still was viewed with high respect and largely defined intellectual and partly artistic/cultural spheres, but militarily it was totally subsumed by all of them. Look at the pictures of Greeks during their War of Independence: they wear traditional Greek garb, but carry Ottoman weapons.

Greece was a cradle of human civilization in virtually all spheres: science, medicine, art, architecture, literature, drama, history etc., but militarily its influence withered away since Alexander the Great. It was, perhaps, far too small a country to sustain any military might and dictate world-wide weapon patterns vs. humongous Empires of the New Era.

You forgot old montenegro, which was never ocupied by turks from 16-19 century they defeated dvery ottoman atack, and they used all ottoman weapons they took from defeated turks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp (Post 274037)

I was not aware that Slovenia produced any weapons; can you give me some more info, details and if possible examples and pictures ? thnx ☼

Slovenia didnt produce any weapons.
He forgot Montenegro, they used taken ottoman weapons from defeated ottomans, and were never under ottomans from 16-19 century.
They made weapons in Boka Kotorska, but mainly used weapons from defeated Ottomans and bought weapons from Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and Croatia.

Let's move on ...

Gentlemen,

We have wandered from the Laz Bicaq and into Slavic history. This is an old thread and I think it is time to let it fall back into the Archives. Thank you for your contributions.

Ian