jezail

[galvano]

new this morning
your opininon please

[ward]

Native lock probaly a wedding rifle 20th century. Can you show a pic of the barrell especially from the top close to the lock sometimes the barrel's are older.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Galvano,
The lock is from the British India Pattern musket of 1815, and bears the British East India Company Lion Rampant. Likely an Afghan Jezail of the period after that date. Could be as late as early to mid 20th century, as flintlocks were used tribally up to at least that time.
Hope this helps.
regards Stuart

[Atlantia]

Hi Galvano.

Very nice long gun.
I've a very similar one myself.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c59/Battlestar_Atlantia/Bronze%20Bowl/030.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c59/Battlestar_Atlantia/Bronze%20Bowl/014-1.jpg

[Gavin Nugent]

Hey Atlantia, shouldn't that stand you have it resting on say "peace maker"?

Gav

[Atlantia]

Hey Atlantia, shouldn't that stand you have it resting on say "peace maker"?

Gav

LMAO!!!

[ward]

I believe that if you look at the lion on that piece it has been engraved inferring that it was a local copy.

[Atlantia]

I believe that if you look at the lion on that piece it has been engraved inferring that it was a local copy.


Hi Ward,

I thought that, but the '1' and crown look stamped. Any significance to this disparity?
I mean was it a period 'pattern part' made inside India with a QC mark added by the colonial masters?
Regards
Gene

[ward]

Yes that #1 is a stamp. Smaller stamps are easier to make. I actually prefer the native copies many of them show real art work. If you want to make sure pull the lock and look at the workings. I have a broomhandle mauser that was made in the afghan/pakistan area that is right down to the dimensions and markings. The reason I suspected something strange about it was there were no serial numbers. When I looked under a loop I realized that the lettering was all engraved

[Jim McDougall]

Hey Atlantia, shouldn't that stand you have it resting on say "peace maker"?

Gav


LOL! Good one Gav.
I was noting Ward's note on 'wedding rifle' and couldnt help thinking of the old cliche' 'shotgun wedding' :)

All the best,
Jim

[ward]

yes wedding rifle but you are not pointing them at the groom. You will see 2 to 4 of these at afghan weddings that have lots of mop. I do not know why but it is a tradition

[Tim Simmons]

I know nothing about these but this site is very interesting to explore.

http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/afghanold.htm

[ward]

Yes they also have this article on the website http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/darra.htm

[Atlantia]

Interesting articles Gentlemen thank you.
I've seen plenty of the other types (non camel-gun) as there is a rather well known seller in the UK who has had rather a lot of these 'military' types for many years now.
In fact an acquaintence who I regularly see at antiques fairs, occasionally gets one of these, an Enfield not too long ago actually.
I've tried to tell him but he wont hear it. Its a bit of a worry as technically any functional muzzle loader recently made is a licenced firearm in the Uk and having one without a black powder certificate could land you in jail.

I must admit, I hadn't made any connection between these and the Jezails, because as far as I knew, all the 'fake' stuff was coming from India.

Ward.
A Broomhandle, really?
Thats incredible! Does it fire?
I mean thats a gun that was quite an advanced machine, even by todays standards! 400m accuracy on the standard barrel, all interlocking parts and pins, the only screws the ones holding the grips on.
Whats the quality like?
Any chance of a snap of it to admire?

Regards
Gene

[Jim McDougall]

yes wedding rifle but you are not pointing them at the groom. You will see 2 to 4 of these at afghan weddings that have lots of mop. I do not know why but it is a tradition

thanks ward :)

[ward]

yes I will get a pic up this week of the broomhandle. it is 30 caliber probaly 1920-1950. every piece is hand filed and finished. The parts are generally interchangable with the german made piece. I fired it once just to see if it worked. Back when I dealt in more modern weapons I saw ak's,1911 45's, enfields,etc handmade by the afghans,chinese,and vietcong done mostly by filework and local blacksmithing.

[Atlantia]

yes I will get a pic up this week of the broomhandle. it is 30 caliber probaly 1920-1950. every piece is hand filed and finished. The parts are generally interchangable with the german made piece. I fired it once just to see if it worked. Back when I dealt in more modern weapons I saw ak's,1911 45's, enfields,etc handmade by the afghans,chinese,and vietcong done mostly by filework and local blacksmithing.

Cheers Ward, I'd genuinely love to see it!

[archer]

Here's a lock I believe is of East India Company origins. It came from kabul in the early sixties. There is a 2 under the crown and the lock is stamped 1811, Unless the number is regimental. the Jezail shown is probably older. Just opened the link to Darra gunsmiths, good to see they are still busy making copies.

Steve

[kahnjar1]

Re the locks on these TRIBAL GUNS..........where the East India mark is found, I would think it most unlikely that it is anything other than the original.
Why would one bother to fake the mark, as the weapon it is attached to is OBVIOUSLY not the original E.I.C item! Remember that E.I.C had armories in India which made guns , as well as those supplied from England. The marks of course would differ slightly in style and application depending on the armory from which they came.
In my humble opinion, ALL those locks are the real deal.

[ward]

good luck with that theory. Why would you copy a piece,maybe because you could not afford the original,it was unavailable because your neighbor did not like you having to many arms,maybe because the seller thought he could sell it for more,you live in a remote area and you do not have a local gun dealer from india,east india company or england,tradition

[ward]

Pakistan made broomhandle all done by file and handwork