Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

[Matchlock]

Nice item Jasper,

Although, being dated 1591, this is not really a Landsknecht sword any more but a bearing sword, most probably of Austrian origin.

Btw, I have never heard of a Hans Stantler - do you happen to have records on him?

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Katzbalgers and two-hand Landsknecht swords, by Urs Graf, dated 1523 and 1524 repectively.

m

[Matchlock]

Some more period artwork.

The South Geman/Swiss motto Fryheit on the banner in the fourth image means Freedom.

m

[cornelistromp]

Nice item Jasper,

Although, being dated 1591, this is not really a Landsknecht sword any more but a bearing sword, most probably of Austrian origin.

Btw, I have never heard of a Hans Stantler - do you happen to have records on him?

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,
there were still some Landsknecht upto the 17th century! seperately of the vatican-guard of course.
Hans Stantler was a swordcutler in the second half of the 16thC in Muenchen, probably the son of Wolfgang Stantler. (CF Ullstein)

best,

[cornelistromp]

some more.

[cornelistromp]

some more. I think we will have to delete some doublures.

[cornelistromp]

some.

[cornelistromp]

the last ones.

[Matchlock]

Good job, thank you!

The latter samples of period artwork you posted can actually be attributed to Jost Amman and the late 1550's.

m

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael,

yes that is correct, beautiful work of JA. also work of Wolgang Strauch Niklas Stoer, Hans Glaser, Albrecht Duerer, Erhart Schoen,Lucas Cranach.

I think this equipment can also be placed in this thread.

best,

[Matchlock]

Wow, what's that?

[fernando]

Yeah, what's that ? :confused:

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael, Hi Fernando,

Yes, that's absolutely not a silly question.
because of the organic material, leather and twisted willow tree wood, there are hardly any specimens preserved.

This stick was offered as an African magic wand at an antique dealer. It took a while before a friend of mine unexpectedly found a second copy in the German leather museum.
From that moment I noticed it on numerous landsknecht illustrations and found another (later) sample in an old book with the collection of Lorenz Sedan.

the pictures will explain what it is.

best,

[fernando]

Fantastic !
Congratulations for this unique item's property :cool:
Hey Muchl, you (also) wish you had one of these :D

[Matchlock]

Sure I wish to own one! ;)

Michl

[Lee]

Here for your holiday enjoyment is this interesting little katzbalger from Bavaria. Armed with this I would be more than a match for the claws and fangs of an angry house-cat. The blade is 48.5 cm in length. Do not despair the electrical tape on the grip; it lies over gauze protecting the original worm-eaten wooden grip. I am told the inscription is some awful romantic drivel in vogue in the 16th century and not worthy of the effort of translation.

[Matchlock]

And Fröhliche Weihnachten to you, Lee,

From a rainy and windy Bavaria! :)

The blade to me seems to be a later addition, the script is, as you surmised, not worth translating and might have been added in the 18th c.

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Here for your holiday enjoyment is this interesting little katzbalger from Bavaria. Armed with this I would be more than a match for the claws and fangs of an angry house-cat. The blade is 48.5 cm in length. Do not despair the electrical tape on the grip; it lies over gauze protecting the original worm-eaten wooden grip. I am told the inscription is some awful romantic drivel in vogue in the 16th century and not worthy of the effort of translation.

Hi,

beautiful hilt design of an atypical/hybrid katzbalger with an unual ring-guard inside the s guard and with a finger-guard, a transitional sword.

I have a 1582 dated katzbalger with a similar blade in my collection and
I'm pretty sure that this katzbalger is homogen and that the blade is the original, however about 30cm shortened, the blade length should be around 80cm. (it could have been reshaped during it's working life.)

This katzbalger has a similar finger guard as most of the dussages from the late 16th century and can be dated in this period around 1575-1585.

The inscription, btw I have never seen anything like this, seems to me like Michael suggested later,on the other side it would not surprise me if this also has been done in the 16th century.(The manuscript is truthful)

perhaps it will give some outcome after translation.



best,

[Zwielicht]

Never seen anything like this, but, not to say anything about the probable purpose of such a short blade, it looks definitely interesting and functional to me - just remember, what length was the average Roman gladius of, and remember, in which kind of combat it was used.

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

Could you please present any dated or closely datable kind of period artwork showing a Katzbalger from the 1570's/80's?

Best,
m

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael,

Of course, a good example of the Landsknecht+arms are the illustrations made by Wolfgang Strauch.
these are dated 1568 (Claus Wintergruen and son Heintz + the landsknecht and the death, note the model katzbalger at the landsknecht belt, it is the same as Lee's katzbalger however longer).

Jost Amman also produced illustrations of landsknechts with katzbalgers in this period.
(see pictures)

In the 2 half of the 16th century the typical katzbalger transformed into other type of swords. The katzbalgersword with s-guard and atypical pommel , dated 1582, is a good example of such a transition.

The reason for my late dating of Lee's katzbalger is due to the inner guard with finger protection (norman type 17), it only came in after 1570 more frequent.
The earliest known inner guard of this type 17 is on a painting in Munich, a portrait of a member of the house of Baden, 1549. Inv no 740, Bayerische Staatsgemaeldesammlung.

best,

[fernando]

... Armed with this I would be more than a match for the claws and fangs of an angry house-cat. ... I am told the inscription is some awful romantic drivel in vogue in the 16th century and not worthy of the effort of translation...
Correct assumption, Lee; sometimes i 'spank' my 8 kilos cat with objects of similar dimensions and he doesn't seem to bother :cool: .
If only this most interesting and misterious sword could speak, we would know its history ... maybe a surprising one or, in the least, unexpected ?. Could it have been shortened in the same ocasion of the inscription enngraving ... like being for presentation ? or retired from action, to be modified and kept or displayed in the sanctuary of some sect.
If it were mine, even though being told the inscription is not worth the translation, i would revolve the skies to have it done.
End of fantasy :o

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

We should take into consideration that the high time of the Landsknechte is generally believed to have come to an end by the mid-16th c, and many of these contemporay illustrations of the 1560's-80's were romanticizing, and based on, earlier illustrative sources of the early 16th c. Consequently we often see much earlier and obsolete costumes and weapons which were characteristic of the 1520's-30's.

Also I would not call your broadsword dated 1582 a Katzbalger though the quillons suggest a late remembrance of an earlier style.

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi Jasper,

We should take into consideration that the high time of the Landsknechte is generally believed to have come to an end by the mid-16th c, and many of these contemporay illustrations of the 1560's-80's were romanticizing, and based on, earlier illustrative sources of the early 16th c. Consequently we often see much earlier and obsolete costumes and weapons which were characteristic of the 1520's-30's.

Also I would not call your broadsword dated 1582 a Katzbalger though the quillons suggest a late remembrance of an earlier style.

Best,
Michael

Hi michael,
yes, in the second half of the 16th century the heyday of the landsknecht was over and lost in importance, approximately after the battle of Dreux 1562 . On the other hand, Don Fernando Alvarez de Toledo y Pimentel, 3rd Duke of Alba, still hired these mercenaries in his spanish army and deployed them against the Dutch between 1567-1572.

just out of interest what do you call this sword of the landskecht image?

best,

[Matchlock]

If it were mine, even though being told the inscription is not worth the translation, i would revolve the skies to have it done.
End of fantasy :o


Hi 'Nando,

I might be able to help a lot but would need a high-rez close-up to do that.

Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Hi 'Nando,

I might be able to help a lot but would need a high-rez close-up to do that.

Best,
Michl

Maybe Lee decides to do so, one of these days ? :o :cool: .

[Matchlock]

Two finely withen and carved flower head pommels from Landsknecht swords, ca. 1530-40; photographed by the author in the reserve collection of the Historisches Museum Luzern, Switzerland. They were obviously used as sliding weights in later times, as was often the case.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

[QUOTE=cornelistromp]Hi Michael, In the 2 half of the 16th century the typical katzbalger transformed into other type of swords. The katzbalgersword with s-guard and atypical pommel, dated 1582, is a good example of such a transition.

Right, Jasper,

But I would not really call these late specimens Katzbalgers anymore. They are followers retaining an older feature, the pretzel or figure eight quillons but noticeably smaller by the 1560's-80's, whlie the swords themselves, just like the period guns, had grown in length in comparison since the first half of the 16th c.

Please cf. the famous GIECH estoc, Souhern Germany/Bavaria, ca. 1570, last sold at Sotheby's, The Visser Collection part I, 1990.

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

I think we have to define katzbalger.

first the word katzbalger;
Schnieder1957, according to Seitz, the mercenaries used instead of a scabbard a cat's skin sheath, they had the ability to stab the sword quickly without pulling the sword from its sheath.
This seems unlikely since there are many 16thC images where a scabbard can be seen.

Another theory is that the word katzbalger comes from how cats fight, (wie katzen balgen) cats fight like mercenaries in close combat.

most likely is the theory of JP Puype in Arms and Armour of knights and landsknechts, page 152: The etymology of the german name katzbalger is unclear but there is consensus that balger comes from the middle high German verb balgen, meaning to brawl, whereas the word KATZ(cat) might be a corruption of KURZ(short). Nonetheless there are also katzbalgers with longer blades apparently worn by mounted landsknecht officers.



then the definition;
to my understanding, a katzbalger must meet all 3 of the following criteria;

1. Sword of the landsknecht(infantry) with a horizontal or S- or 8-curved guard. (cf. Seitz blankwaffen P173, puype p152)

2. a broad straight blade of type XIII, in the first place used for cutting and slashing blows and not for stabbing, in most cases with a rounded tip.

3.basic hilt form;The speading end of the grip is made ​​of metal and no true pommel exists, alternatively hilt subform; the grip ends with a pommel or in a cap, fitting down over it. (norman1980 hilt3 p66 )


A late 16thC estoc with an 8 shaped guard is not a Katzbalger because it does not meet 1 and 2 of the definition; not a landsknecht infantry weapon and the wrong type of blade not suitable for close combat.
and the sword in landsknecht-image of post #274 does meet 1,2 and 3 of the above mentioned definition.

best,

[Zwielicht]

As a personal opinion - I would also have added to the definition a massive broad flattened pommel seen on most of katzbalgers, mostly of that specific shape (do not remember proper English name for it) seen only on them.

[cornelistromp]

As a personal opinion - I would also have added to the definition a massive broad flattened pommel seen on most of katzbalgers, mostly of that specific shape (do not remember proper English name for it) seen only on them.

There are several types of katzbalger pommels known, so also different types of grip caps as well steel katzbalger grip endings, integrated in the grip.
There are probably enough examples not yet known either!

it would be great to have the different types illustrated with examples.

best,

[Matchlock]

I thought that was exactly what I had been doing here all of the time, and I also gave the respective dates and references ... :confused:

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

I thought that was exactly what I had been doing here all of the time, and I also gave the respective dates and references ... :confused:

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Of course this thread is a great base for research, probably the best I know.
I meant to classify the different types of katzbalger pommel caps and grips!

best,
Jasper

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

I know what you meant but again, that's what I did giving dates and pointing ot the form of the pommel and hilt.
The types you posted now have Ottheinrich type fluted and rounded pommels and hilts and can be safely attributed to the early 1530's. The lower to with their sideguards are transition types to usual swords (Katzbalgerdegen).

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael,

For me it is not so much about the dating. most of it is made ​​in less than 3/4 of a century. more interesting is to identify and indicate the trends in those hilt types.

best,

[Matchlock]

I also did my best to illustrate that evolution as well.

m

[cornelistromp]

There are many valuable illustrations on the 10 pages on which many different types can been seen . however a short and concise classification or typology overview I have not found.I will try to make one if I find some time.

best,

[Matchlock]

That would be great indeed!

m

[cornelistromp]

I recently found an interesting landsknechts dagger scabbard.

[fernando]

Precious item, Jasper ... and very rare, i guess !
Thanks for sharing

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

I noticed that item when it was still in an online auction. Some of the decorative elements remind me of Oriental influence.

They seldom appear on the market.
What approximate date would you assign to this object?

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi Jasper,

I noticed that item when it was still in an online auction. Some of the decorative elements remind me of Oriental influence.

They seldom appear on the market.
What approximate date would you assign to this object?

Best,
Michael
Hi Michael,

that is a very difficult question.
this sheath I saw for the first time at Christies a few years ago, as part of a lot of 5 daggers. the dating could by christies expert not exactly be given at the preview. The listing at ebay was a medieval knights dagger but this is too early.
There is not much reference on this half round scabbard of lands knecht type as well(half round because the iron sheath had to cover as well a small knife and a skewer for use in a miltary camp.)
here is my attempt:
there are only two iron relief hammered half round scabbards I know of.
one dagger+ hammered in relief iron scabbard is in the walters art museum dated in the beginning of the 16thC and another one is auctioned at HH lot 351 16 mai 2003, dated end of the 16th century.
Also some scabbards of this type can be seen on pictures of Hans Doering all dated around 1545.

So I keep it on mid 16th century, but it can be + or - 50years. ;)

best,

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

Here is an extremely similar sheath from the collection of a friend of mine, and it bears the date 1681 (!), which should make us very careful about dating items that soon turned into traditional objects.

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi michael,

thank your friend for sharing this scabbard.
Actually this beautiful scabbard looks more like the high relief sheath that was auctioned at Hermann Historica. but you're absolutely right because this model scabbard has been made for 200 years, makes ​​it very difficult to date.

The very pronounced rings on my scabberd ( the design, I also noticed before on armour but try to remeber where), and the longer backpart for getting easily acces to the smaller knife and skewer, which both can been seen on Doering's drawings and the walters museum example, makes me date it to the mid 16th century.

here is also another basic version from chateau castlenaud.

best,

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

Yes, the Castelnaud sheath retains notable roped and other early Renaissance decorative elements that clearly assign it to the 1530's, give or take a decade.

Thanks, and best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael,

This is the dagger belonging together with the sheath.
The model of the sheath looks primarily 16th century, but when I see it together with the dagger, I think a 19th century reproduction can not be excluded.

best,

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael,

I just remember where I have seen that similar "dot in line" design from my scabbard, it was on one of the pommels you placed from the Luzern Museum and on a 1/2 sword.

best,

[Matchlock]

Exactly, Jasper,

These are some of the decisive Early Renaissance elements!

And you are right, of course: that dagger is 19th c. fantasy.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Oh, i wish i could find a genuine hilt for my katzbalger :shrug:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14555

[fernando]

Hi 'Nando,

As I said: take off the outcurved sides of the wood with a raw rasp to smoothen them, then touch them with glue and apply a rough cord binding. You may then stain the hemp binding brown with wood stain. All that hasn't to be done though to make your Katzbalger look good and authentic. It already does, at least to me. :cool:
Did you soak the iron parts in olive oil? Smoothen them just lightly with 600 grain paper and oil them!!! You will be overwhelmed!!!!


Best,
Michael

You are right, i have posted my (hilt) question on the wrong thread, Michl :o .
Both my query and your reply are now in the right place ... including your lovely pictures :) :cool: .


.

[fernando]

Thanks for your advice, Michl. Since you told me this in the first place i tuned the grip wood a little bit; the results are not so famous. I didn't apply the cord binding and i am not sure i would do a decent work.
But what i find less comfortable, more than the handle, is the iron hilt; it looks clumsy, with that large and non harmonious figure 8 and only twisted in one of the arms :shrug: .
Concerning the blade, i rubbed it with soap soaked Arbo and after applied the olive oil. It got a relatively brighter and much better look, no doubt.

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael and Hi Fernando,

beautiful landsknechts saber what you have posted, a while ago, a similar type has been offered on ebay.
These swords date back to around 1550, at least after 1549 as the first datable illustration with this inner guard of norman type 17 is in the portrait of William Oberst Froehlich by Hans Asper of Zurich dated 1549.

best,


@ Fernando,
I also think that if you carefully clean your katzbalger, not overclean(= a kill) of course, you do not believe what you see. ;)

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

Thank you so much, I overlooked that! Was it on Ebay.com? What did it fetch?

It is doubtlessly a strikingly similar piece to that of my friend!

Did you notice it on Ebay, 'Nando?

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

... Did you notice it on Ebay, 'Nando? ...
I wouldn't; i am not an Ebayer :shrug: .


.

[Matchlock]

Neither am I ...

m

[fernando]

Fascinating piece though.
Thanks for sharing, Jasper

[fernando]

@ Fernando,
I also think that if you carefully clean your katzbalger, not overclean(= a kill) of course, you do not believe what you see. ;)
Noted :cool:

[cornelistromp]

I have sent a few pictures of my scabbard to JP Puype the former curator of the Army Museum, and author of Arms and Armour of knights and Landknechts.

here is a quote from his mail reply( I have translated it from Dutch into Englisch);

Finally, the sheath (P1020890 pictures and -889), I think a good example of a sheath for a landsknecht. Only we know too little sheaths of landsknechtdaggers for this one to be called typical or atypical , but it seems OK to me, I think the sheath dates back to the mid-sixteenth century.

I am currently working two days a week at the archeology department of the municipality of Amsterdam on the handling of the weapon finds from the north south line. Among the many hundreds of objects I have a sheath of a landsknecht dagger identified, please note almost identical to the sheath of such a dagger at the Army Museum, see my latest book Cat.73, p.234-237 Arms and Armour of knights and Landknechts (thanks for your compliment!). I attach a scan of the magazine which I describe below nr.350 a rough sketch of the sheath that I have made. The service had indentified the object initially as " flag shoe", or as also a tube to carry a flag pole.

Sincerely,
Jan Piet Puype.


best,

[Matchlock]

Wow, that's what I call a well-based piece of information! :)

m

[Matchlock]

A fine hand-and-a-half sword, ca. 1530, part of a polychrome wooden statue of a knight, photographed by the author in the Museum of Weissenburg, Bavaria.

Please note the knife and bodkin in their separate compartments of the sheath!

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

One of several known variants of the Lucretia Borgia motif with a fine dagger.
painting by Lucas Cranach the Elder, 1530's.

m

[broadaxe]

Amazing details! Most likely an ear dagger. Lucas Cranach Sr. is one of my favorites, his paintings have a special dark atmosphere.

[Matchlock]

Exactly, Tony,

He is one of my Early Renaissance favorites as well.

I assume it is no longer an ear dagger (for the 1530's-40's) but a rondel dagger - but that of course is not clearly visible.


Best,
Michael

[broadaxe]

Tony??? :D not me...
First I thought rondell, but there is a projection of the pommel that is in angle to the guard (otherwise the painter made a mistake), and check the posture of the fingers.

[Matchlock]

OK, and sorry for mixing your name up.

m

[broadaxe]

OK, and sorry for mixing your name up.

m

No problem, it happens.
BTW, this fabolus painting has just been just sold by Sotheby's New York for $5,122,500... :eek:

[Matchlock]

A 'Grosses Messer' with single-edged blade, two-edged at the tip, ca. 1490, preserved in the Vienna Imperial Armory, inv.no. A 129. Centrally fluted iron bird's head pommel, centrally fluted horn grip scales with characteristic hollow rivets and upward-turned shell guard.

Overall length 129 cm, width at the quillons 12 cm.


Best,
Michael

[broadaxe]

Absolutely a stunner, I have a passion for fighting messers. Do you know its measurements by any chance?

[Matchlock]

Sorry, I edited my post and added the measurements!

Thanks for reminding me!

m

[broadaxe]

Thanks Michael, I'm most curious to know its weight and point of balance!

[Matchlock]

Unfortunately this is an information that the Vienna Hofburg Museum did not pay any attention to!: :o

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Period artwork:

- 1513: a Messer and a hand-and-a-half sword

- 1533: a (by then oldfashioned) Messer 'in use' :cool: :eek:

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

An Early to High Gothic dagger, 13th c., overall length 27.5 cm, in excavated condition.

m

[Matchlock]

Two colored woodcuts by Hans Baldung Grien, 1516, from his series The Ten Commandments.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The one on top, in excavated condition, the tip of the blade missing.
Please note the pretzel-shaped quillons of traditional Katzbalger type.


Also illustrated, from top:

- a characteristic Swiss dagger (Schweizer Dolch), retaining its boxwood or fruitwood grip, 1st half 16th c.

- an Italian knightly sword, ca. 1500

- a rapier, 2nd half 16th c.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Enjoy.

m

[cornelistromp]

beautiful swords, the knightly sword I think it can be dated a little earlier.
Oakeshott Type XV was there from 1350-1550, the pommel oakeshot type J with hollowed faces came in more around and after 1425 frequently. (and before 1250).

additional 2-handsword with similar blade as nr 2 Grandson

best,

[Matchlock]

These accessories (which were also integral parts of the sheaths of period hand-and-half swords) usually comprised all sorts af practical small tools the Landsknecht had to make everyday use of:
at least one knife, a two-pointed fork, an awl or bodkin for mending clothes, a pricker etc.

To my knowledge, these accessories are only preserved together with the personal Katzbalger af Ulrich von Schellenberg in the Vienna Waffensammlung, of which I posted images in this thread before. Here are some additional, plus the measurements:

http://gs19.inmotionhosting.com/~milita8/cmh/member/member.cgi/noframes/read/12291

Of course, lots of detached accessories are known; in my collection, e.g. there a by-knife with a bone handle, the blade struck with a star-shaped maker's mark and the bronze pommel dated 1528 on the obverse and struck with three similar starks on the reverse. These were charcteristic makes of the cutlers' guild. The shapes of their pommels were designed to match and often mirrored that of the pommel of the (main) weapon, the Grosses Messer, Katzbalger or hand-and-half sword.

The period artwork is taken from Cod. Pal. germ. 128, Franz Helm, Buch von den probierten Künsten (Book on Tested Arts), 1535.

Attached below is a very fine late Maximilian type of by-knife, ca. 1520-5, most probably from the sheath of a fine hunting sword or saber.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

More of 1535.

[Matchlock]

More of 1535.

And a very fine and rare sheath with two compartments for by-knives, of wood stained read and green, the characteristic colors of the Late Gothic/Early Reniaasance era, covered with tooled leather decorated with Early-Renaissance roped (German: geschnürlt) ornament found on all contemporary works of art including weapons, most probably detached from a larger sheath, late 16th century, length 23.1 cm.

For a similar sheath in period artwork, please see my post on the figure in the Museum of Weißenburg on top of this page. One more image attached as a reminder.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

beautiful swords, the knightly sword I think it can be dated a little earlier.
Oakeshott Type XV was there from 1350-1550, the pommel oakeshot type J with hollowed faces came in more around and after 1425 frequently. (and before 1250).

additional 2-handsword with similar blade as nr 2 Grandson

best,



Thank you, Jasper, for posting this.

I must ask: where is this fine item?

Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Thank you, Jasper, for posting this.

I must ask: where is this fine item?

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,

it is from my own collection.

best,

[Matchlock]

That's what I was hoping! :cool:

May we see more of it? Any marks?


Thanks and best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

of course!

best,

[Matchlock]

Enjoy.

m

[Matchlock]

Offered in a German sale in 2008.

Preserved in untouched but ruinous condition, retaining its original staghorn grips fixed by hollow rivets. The upturned, usually shell-shaped guard of plain form.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

A Landsknecht-Doppelsöldner with a two-hand sword showing the pretzel-shaped quillons, and a Katzbalger with by-knives containted in its sheath, the latter bearing the artist's mongram D H, the Augsburg town mark, a pyr (fir cone), or a hop (referring to his name) between. Daniel Hopfer almost never dated his works; he died in 1536.

The term Doppelsöldner refers to the fact that the mercenaries (Landsknechte) were all free-lancers and hired themselves - and their own equipment! - to whoever was ready to pay them. The pay they were granted was measured by both their equipment and their skills. An average Landsknecht was expected to bring his Katzbalger, and probably a pike or a halberd; a Doppelsöldner, as the name indicates, was double equipped, e.g. with either a Katzbalger and a two-hand sword or an arquebus - and consequently got double paid.

Attached are further examples of Doppelsöldners.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Can i add some more ?

.

[Matchlock]

Thanks a lot, 'Nando,


Especially as an arquebus of ca. 1540 is illustrated!

I'll steal that image for my threads on Landsknecht arquebuses ;) :

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7503&highlight=landsknecht+harquebus

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7542&highlight=harquebus+1525

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7060&highlight=harquebus



Best,
Michael

[fernando]

You mean this one ?

.

[Matchlock]

Exactly!

I used to have this in my archives but somehow could not find it.

Best,
Michl

[Matchlock]

From the so-called Codex Amberger, a compilation of early- to mid-16th century German illuminated manuscripts which is now in the private colection of Christoph Amberger, USA.
The first illustration attached can - based on the shape of the costumes - be dated to ca. 1560, a period when the heday of the Landsknechte had already become a piece of history.
The second illustration seems to be from the 1520's-30's.

http://fencingclassics.wordpress.com/

Best,
m

[Matchlock]

A Landsknecht with his Katzbalger, beginning of the 16th century, the quillons showing the earliest form of the 'pretzel' which is not fully developed yet.

From the Herscheider Altar in Burg Altena.

m

[Matchlock]

A documentation of typical 19th-20th century Katzbalger copies similar to one posted here is available!

I do not wish to post them here so anybody interested please pm me and you will receive that documentation, including close-ups and current market prices!

Best,
m

[Matchlock]

Swiss Landsknechts and Doppelsöldners showing katzbalgers, daggers and halberds, and a matchlock arquebus being loaded.

All from MC Ms. 13, Kantonsbibl. Appenzell, Johann von Schwarzenberg, ca. 1530-40,
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/de/thumbs3x4/cea/0013

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Two latest Landsknecht period rapiers, 1540's-50's - and actual earliest type rapiers - , photographed by the author in the military museum of Pague, located on the famous Hradschin, in 1997 - when earliest items where still on display there ...

I must say that when trying to access their obvious newly set-up dislay after some seven years of being closed to the publlic these days, I was totally shocked to be confronted with what seeems to be their topic presentation...

Where on earth has the beautiful old stuff gone?!

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The painting The Herrenberg Altar by Jörg Ratgeb is now in the Staatsgalerie Stuttgart.
Ratgeb definitely knew what he depicted; as a consequence of his taking part in a campaign during the Peasant Wars, he got torn apart by four horses in 1526.

The lower of the swords clearly shows a stylistic influence by the Swiss types of swords and daggers (Schweizerdegen), reminding us of the fact that Ratgeb lived not far from the Swiss border.

m

[Matchlock]

An Italian style Landsknecht sword of ca. 1500; woodcut of a crossbow man, from Guards of the Holy Sepulcher, by Urs Graf.
From a book printed in Strasbourg in 1513.

m

[Matchlock]

A very rare depiction of an early-16th c. Italian type Landsknecht saber, with three-fold pommel, by Lucas van Leyden, ca. 1510, and very similar to the piece in my collection:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10881&highlight=saber+italian

m

[Matchlock]

Eastern European types of Landsknecht sabers of the 1520's and 1530's, and of some daggers.
From the chronicle on the deeds of the Albanian Prince of Scanderberg, printed in 1533.

m

[Samik]

Impressive chronicle! Thank you for all these fabulous pictures Michael.

Best,
Samuel

[Matchlock]

Thank you so much, Samuel,


Although I regret mistyping Scanderbeg's name. :confused:

I do wish you would come in here more often but I know of course you are very busy. It's a good thing to now that you still read the posts.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

A Landsknecht hand-and-a-half sword, from a painting of the decapitation of St. John, by the master of the Attel altarpiece, ca. 1480-90.

m

[Matchlock]

St. George and the Dragon; sculpture from The Tyrol, ca. 1500.
Bavarian National Museum Munich.

m

[Matchlock]

The lot, comprising two items, failed to sell at auction at the Dorotheum, Vienna, yesterday.

Although the pommel is missing from the sword we may analogously assume that it was shaped to match that of the bodkin. The latter, of course, was part of the 'byknives' originally contained in separate compartments of the sheath.


m

[Matchlock]

I forgot to add that the blade of the Dorotheum sword is single-edged.

m

[cornelistromp]

Of course all the "Langes Messer" are single edged, although that some have a two-edged point.

best,

[Matchlock]

That's right, Jasper! ;)

You would not believe though how often I have been asked this question (not here on the forum, actually).

Notwithstanding the fact that the Austrian catalog expert called this a 'Langes Messer' I still prefer the established term 'Grosses Messser' (great knife).


Best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael, thanks that's clear.

For more information about this intriguing weapon please see.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15053&highlight=langes+messer

best,
Jasper

[Matchlock]

Based on many instances of 15th and 16th c. period artwork, mainly paintings and woodcuts, this type of all-purpose Messer (knife), including employment as both tool and weapon, was part of the basic equipment of foot soldiers, both top and low ranking, Landsknechts (mercenaries) and peasants alike, varying only in quality.

Today, most existing specimen are only preserved as excavated or water finds, and in ruinous condition.

The finest preserved sample I have ever come across was one sold from the Princely Collection of Liechtenstein, Schloss Vaduz, at Christie's, London, November 20, 1991, lot 62, where I bought it. It increased its estimate sevenfold, with renowned dealers and collectors like Geoffrey Jenkinson engaged in the bidding process! Well, I won.

It retained its original natural staghorn grips attached by hollow brass rivets, the trifold pommel in characteristic asymmetric 'bird's head' shape, the blade struck two times with a cross and orb mark which is mostly found on Austrian and South German blades. It was a typical Messerer's (cutler's) work, with the point clearly visible where the hardened edge was fire welded to the (softer) blade.
The lower section of the blade, right above the tip, was struck with a stylyzied Gothic trefoil ornament (Dreipass).

The overall length was 41.9 cm, the length of the blade 30 cm, the maximum blade width 2.9 cm right below the transverse parrying lug which was decorated with Late-Gothic checkered pattern.


As edged weapons are not my domain of collecting, I sold the fine piece a few years ago.


The attached woodcuts:

- by Albrecht Dürer, Three Peasants Talking, ca. 1500

- Johann v. Schwarzenberg, Bambergische Peinliche Halsgerichtsordnung, 1507


Enjoy.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The remaining attachments.

At the bottom a late painting by Brueghel, with a Seitenwehr pictured in the left part of the picture.

Next, a detail from a Nuremberg painting Landsknechts Fleeing Death, ca. 1510.

And a woodcut Peasant's Dance, by Hans Sebald Beham, Nuremberg, 1546-7.


m

[Matchlock]

For anther good and lively discussion on the authenticity of Katzbalgers, plesase see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=141174#post141174,

posts 113 ff.

m

[Matchlock]

Close-ups from a painting by Lucas Cranach the Younger, dated 1584, in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nuremberg.
The arms and armor are of course depicted in the old traditional style of the 1540's.

As in several other instances of contemporary illustrative sources of period artwork, the artist even considered depicting the characteristic cross and orb mark - plus, near the tip, a typical wavy, serpent-like ornament - on the blade of the saber!!!

Please note that the hilts of both arms are blackened!


Author's photos, 1995.


See also
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=141714#post141714


Best,
m

[Matchlock]

A Katzbalger of characteristic type, the forte of the blade fullered, the bone nodus of the hilt damaged; early 16th c.
Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nurembeg.

m

[cornelistromp]

Michael,

Di you maybe know which saints are engraved on the brass grip plate?

best,

[Matchlock]

Sorry, Jasper,

I am not familiar with most of the Acts of the Saints.

Best,
m

[Matchlock]

This is a painting by Melchior Feselen, Bavaria: The Battle of Alesia, dated 1533 (Bavarian State Gallery Munich), which is hitherto unrecorded in arms armor studies.

For more, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16116


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Over 42,000 views - WOW!

Thanks a lot for looking, folks!
I will keep updating this thread.

Best,
Michael

[theswordcollector]

More details.
Amazing sword incredible workmanship I am suprised the museum doesn't own this one. Very nice! :)



.

[Foxbat]

Sword from my collection.

[fernando]

Welcome to our forum, Foxbat :)
What a wonderful start; this is a stupendous sword :cool:
Can we see more pictures of it ?
Could you tell us something about it ?

[Foxbat]

Thank you! Can't really tell much about it besides the fact that it has 36" blade with wolf mark on it, with wonderful balance. The only other picture of it is here, shown with its sister sword.

[cornelistromp]

Hi,

re: the guard
circular tracks (due to mechanical rotation?) can be seen on the flat side of the guard finals.
Can you please post a picture where you can see how these finals are attached to the guard?

Do you maybe have a provenance of this sword, collection, dealer or auctionhouse?

best,

[fernando]

Magnificent. Is the 'sister' also from your collection ?

[fernando]

Oh Jasper, i didn't know that you were posting before me.
I see what you mean; a sharp eye from an experienced collector !
Let us hear from Foxbat.

[Foxbat]

As far as I can tell the finials and the bars are one piece, together with the block.

[broadaxe]

As far as I can tell the finials and the bars are one piece, together with the block.

The circular grooves could have been made by the tool used to turn the hot iron bar in the process of making, to create the screw-effect on the guard branches.

[Foxbat]

Magnificent. Is the 'sister' also from your collection ?

Yes, they hang together.

[cornelistromp]

I apologize if I kick someone against the sore leg, my personal opinion in all frankness.
some style attributes, especially on the guard and ricasso block, combined with the extreme rarity of this type make me suspect that this is probably a later reproduction.(20thst or 19th century)

Only two authentic swords of this type are known to me;

- one in the Berliner Zeughaus, published by G. Hitl, p.58 waffensammlung Nr.334 and Mueller/koelling/Platow, Europaische Hieb und Stich Waffen p.189 Nr. 96.

- Another one sold by Hermann Historica 19 mai 2001 lot 64

best,

[Foxbat]

No apology is needed, we are all entitled to our opinions. In addition things like auction records are not 100% reliable, as some of us have discovered. Having this sword in my hands, I rule out 19th or 20th century replica idea. Could it possibly be a very early, perhaps even a period, composite? Yes. My level of expertise does not go that far.

[cornelistromp]

I do not expect it to be a composite from the 16th century. I can say with reasonable certainty that the guard is much later.
it may be of course the case that original parts are used, for example, the blade and/or the grip.
However, the patina, colour and pitting of the blade are almost identical to the other sword, this is highly unusual, Do they come from the same source?

It is difficult to give some kind of (final) opinion merely based on the posted pictures, if you have the opportunity and want to have more certainty, I would advice to submit it to a specialist of the well known auction houses;
Thomas del mar, Bonhams or Hermann Historica. A first impression they can give on the basis of photographs.

best,

[cornelistromp]

Two soil finds from the Netherlands, the katzbalger is 87cm and the sword is 94cm allover.

[Matchlock]

For an undisputed original piece retaining its sheath and bodkins, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17364

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

From a fine and important early painting by the Master of the Worcester Carrying of the Cross, active in Bavaria, where I live, ca. 1425.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

A fine and rare Swiss hand-and-a-half sword with single-edged blade (double-edged for its last third, Schnepf), ca. 1530.
Sold at auction: Tom del Mar, 10 December 2008, lot 122.

Enjoy!


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

One more image.

[Matchlock]

A late Katzbalger, ca. 1540, with recurved but open 'pretzel' quillons and a flat pommel; at the Higgins Armory Museum, Worcester, Massachusetts.

m

[cornelistromp]

some better pics.
authenticity? don't know, I will check their HAM files for the provenance.

good: is shape of guard, bras finals "riveted" to guard, copper alloy washers used in grip, blade outline.
bad(unusual): is shape of fullers, non-gothic 4 mark, condition of leather grip, shape of pommel.

very bad is that somebody cleaned the blade with heavy sandpaper.

1540 is a bit too late this type came around 1500, this type occurs frequently in the work of Albrecht Duerer.


best,

[Matchlock]

Thanks a lot, Jasper,

Do you have a close-up of that cypher 4 you mentioned?

Best,
m

[cornelistromp]

Thanks a lot, Jasper,

Do you have a close-up of that cypher 4 you mentioned?

Best,
m

Michael, look at the first picture!

more open the guard, the earlier the Katzbalger!
late 15th century, even with a straight guard into the middle of the 16th century with a completely closed guard.

best,
jasper

[cornelistromp]

found that these Katzbalger has been in the collection of the MET!
donated to higgins armory now sold or perhaps part of the weapons acquired by Worcester Art Museum, who can tell?

See the pictures from the metropolitan museum, here the blade looks still beautiful ?
looks like someone has cleaned it too much with the wrong tools for the job and thus destroying evidence and patina.

Indeed, The MET also dates the Katzbalger around 1500.


Details
Accession Number3130
OriginProbably Germany, late 1400s-early 1500s
MaterialsSteel; brass; briar wood
MeasureO.L. 34"; blade L. 28";
blade width at hilt 1 13/16"Weight2 lb. 2 oz

Description

Infantry sword of the so-called Katzbalger type. Double-edged steel blade of hollow ground, flattened octagonal section tapering slightly to bluntly pointed spatulate tip. Ricasso of flattened rectangular section with 3 shallow, wide fullers on each face, becoming pointed & continuing as pair of fullers extending 1/3 of length of rest of blade. These are about 8" in overall length, and pointed at their ends. Pressing toward the tip, the blade becomes flat and lenticular, tapering gently and slightly to the point. One face is marked as noted under "marks". "S"-shaped octagonal section crossguard recurving in plane of blade, with domed, brass capped terminals. Quillon block, terminals of guard, brass caps have deeply incised line decoration. 1-piece briar wood grip of hexagonal section, widening towards pommel. The side faces are accented by cut axial lines at the angles. The grip is insulated at the ends by thin sheets of brass plate. There are no signs of a covering having ever been in place. Steel pommel, hexagonal at base & expanding into flattened mushroom-shape at end which is deeply cut into 3 sections. Where the blade tang passes through the pommel body there is a shallow rectangular cavity that might well have once held a finial both decorative and functional.

Curator's Comments

The swords appear widely in Germanic art of the day, depicted by famous artists such as Hans Baldung, Lukas Cranach and Urs Graf. Tip has been shortened. The cog-like brass mark on the blade is simialr to that which appears on an Italian roncone, of ca. 1510 in the Museo Poldi-Pezzoli (see Boccia and Godoy, p. 149, no. 461; this reference also notes similarly marked halberds given as German and Swiss, in Leningrad, Bern and Rome.) Katzbalger swords appear widely thoughout German art of the first half of the 16th century. Among other sources, see Lukas Cranach's woodcut of a Landsknecht, ca. 1510, at Dresden (Schade, Cranach..). The name is the source of some debate, but it was probably derived from a slang verb (katzbalgen) meaning to tussle ("mix it up"), or fight at close quarters. The open S-shape of the crossguard of our piece suggests an earlier date for the example, perhaps as early as the late 15th century. In its general form and execution it should be compared to that of a dagger given as Swiss (?) from the beginning of the 16th centuiry in the Odescalchi collection, inv. no. 1312. Rather similar hilts are depicted on the Harsdorfer gold and gem scale of 1497 (the footsoldier to the left of the arms as viewed; Gothic and Renaissance Art.., cat. no. 77) and on the St. Sebastian altarpiece by Hans Baldung Grien, 1507 (as worn by the yellow-clad archer in the right foreground of the main panel, ibid., cat. no. 178). The kriegstagesbuch discussed by Dilke and Closs shows rather similar hilts in figs. 5, 8, 9, 12; this work dates from the end of the 15th century, and in 1929 was preserved in the Thuringian State Archives, Weimar.

Bibliography

Claude Blair and Leonid Tarassuk (eds.), The Complete Encyclopedia of Arms and Weapons (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1982), p. 294.
Lionello G. Boccia and Jose-A. Godoy, Museo Poldi Pezzoli, Armeria I (Milan: Bramante Editrice, 1985), p. 149, no. 461.
Nolfi di Carpegna, Le Armi Odescalchi (Rome: DeLuca Editore, 1976), p. 37, cat. no. 210.
Guy F. Laking, A Record of European Armour and Arms.., vol. II (London: G. Bell and Sons. Ltd., 1920), p. 299, fig. 679.
Donald J. LaRocca, "The Renaissance Spirit," in Swords and Hilt Weapons (New York: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1989), p. 47.
A.V.B. Norman and C.M. Barne, The Rapier and Small-sword, 1460-1820 (London: Arms and Armour Press, 1980), p. 66, hilt 3.
Werner Schade, Cranach: A Family of master Painters. Transl. Helen Sebba (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1980).
Heribert Seitz, Blankwaffen I (Munich: Klinkhardt und Biermann, 1965), pp. 134, fig. 76, no. 28; fig. 77, no. 34; 135, fig. 77, no. 40; 173; 175, fig. 111.
The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Gothic and Renaissance Art in Nuremberg, 1300-1550 (New York: The Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1986), cat. Nos. 77, 178.
Helene Dilke and Adolf Closs, "Das Kriegstagesbuch eines deutschen Landsknechts und die Wende des 15. Jahrhunderts," ZHWK, n.F. 3(12) (January 1929): 1-11.

Publication & Exhibit History

Photographed while in collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, neg. no. 26624

[Matus]

Hello,

a similar hilted sword like in Michael's post (single edged Swiss hand and half sword) was sold in the last Fischer auction (417, lot no. 25).

Regards,
Matus

[Matchlock]

Thank you so much, Jasper,


I should have also noticed that the pommel cap is of. ca. 1500, as with a Grosses Messer.
That sign on the blade I would not have read for a Gothic numeral 4.

Thank you as well, Matus, for that Fischer item.


Best,
Michael

[fernando]

... donated to higgins armory now sold or perhaps part of the weapons acquired by Worcester Art Museum, who can tell? ...
Still highlighted by the Higgins (during my visit) on September 2012 ... before this museum tragic end :shrug: .

.

[Matchlock]

Thanks for that reminder, 'Nando!


I knew that part of the Higgins was sold at auction with Tom del Mar but I do not know what had happened. Did they go bankrupt?


Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Sort of ...


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16934&highlight=HIGGINS

[Matchlock]

Yeah,

That whole year 2013 I spent on hospitalization including 23 surgeries of they heaviest kind. No computer access from October 2012 till mid-November 2013 - of course I missed a lot of information, auctions - and, most of all, I missed the forum!

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

... and, most of all, I missed the forum! ...
We will put it back ... no worry :cool:

[Matchlock]

God knows you forumites have already done so - thank you so much, 'Nando! :D :cool:

Best,
Michl

[Matchlock]

I would like to add this Late-Gothic, 2nd half 15th c. hand-and-a-half sword to this thread as it was still in use as a period companion together with the earliest Katzbalgers.
It was sold Bonhams, 26 November 2008, lot 274.

Best, Michael

[cornelistromp]

Thank you so much, Jasper,


I should have also noticed that the pommel cap is of. ca. 1500, as with a Grosses Messer.
That sign on the blade I would not have read for a Gothic numeral 4.

Thank you as well, Matus, for that Fischer item.


Best,
Michael

yes, I mentioned it in post 388 as a NON-GOTHIC 4

best,

[Matchlock]

I knew you did but alas I am unable to look at that mark as any shape of the cypher 4, whether Gothic or non-Gothic.

That however seems to be a problem of personal identification on my side.


Best,
m

[cornelistromp]

I knew you did but alas I am unable to look at that mark as any shape of the cypher 4, whether Gothic or non-Gothic.

That however seems to be a problem of personal identification on my side.


Best,
m

maybe this close up picture helps.

best,

[Matchlock]

That did help indeed, thank you. ;)


I would not call that a classic non-Gothic numeral 4 though.

Most medievalists will agree that the Gothic numeral 4 in its 'typical' version is often misread as the upper half of the cypher 8, which actually is not true. In fact, '4' has only been turned to the right by 90 degrees since the 15th century and turned back to its present position again in the course of the first half of the 16th century.

If you look at it that way, the 'position' of the numeral 4 on the blade of that Katzbalger may well be alright, just not not quite what one would expect 'characteristically' and 'ideally'.

In order to illustrate how much the position of numeral 4 could vary - until the 'modern' version! - during the whole 15th c., I attached the following samples:


1407 (founding table of the Church of the Holy Spirit, Landshut, Bavaria), very unusual!

1436 (hatchment, Swiss National Museum Zurich)

1443 (bone of a mammoth, an inexplicable curiosity in the Gothic period)

1460 (mirrored version of numeral 4, on the crossbow of Ulrich of Württemberg, Metropolitan Museum of Art, N.Y.), unusually mirrored!

1478 (source unknown)

1481 (Old City Hall, Regensburg, Bavaria)

1481 (wrought-iron hackbut barrel, Munich; in my collection, and two nearly identical samples in Oberhaus Castle, Passau, Lower Bavaria):
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7107&highlight=haquebut+1481

1481 (painting by Michael Wohlgemut), unusually modern!

1499 (Albrecht Dürer, Nuremberg, whose style was extremely 'advanced' in his time, on his portrait of Oswolt Krell)!



As you will see, no absolutely strict rules can be set up for a certain representation.



Best,
m

[Matchlock]

1474 (ratched of a cranequin, Probus sale, Stockholm 8 Nov 2010)

1488 (church in Haimhausen, near Munich, Bavaria)

1499 (painting by Michael Wohlgemut, at the threshold to the Early Modern Age)

1499 (model of a fire engine, Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg)

1493 (epitaph plate, former Figdor colln., Vienna)

1493 (another, from the same source)

1497 (Nuremberg)

1504 (Nuremberg bronze cannon barrel, town museum in Weismain, Bavaria)

1514 (Bülach, Switzerland), old style!

1514 (painting by Lucas Cranach, Dresden), modern style!

1547 (Salzburg, Austria)

1548 (bone plaque on a wheelock arquebus, Tojhusmuseet Copenhagen)

1548 (same gun)

1554 (blade of a Flamberg two-handed sword, town hall museum Stein am Rhein, Switzerland), Gothic style!!!



Once again, a great bandwidth of varieties is documented, and almost any style of representation may have been possible!
In traditional and far-off countries like Switzerland, the obsolete Gothic style prevailed even in the Renaissance epoque until at least the mid-16th c.!



m

[cornelistromp]

Michael,

thank you this is very enlightening for me and extremely interesting, I Always saw the four a a half 8, actually now I see it is not.

If you rotate the Gothic 4 by 90 degrees you will indeed get the later 4.
Also very nice that you found and posted examples of these rotated 4 at the end of the 15th and begining of the 16thC century's.


best,
Jasper

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,


Not to forget, at the beginning of the 15th c. this sort of writing style of 4 can be found as well: 1407!!!

Also, note the representation of the first numeral 1 as m, based on the Latin word mille, in the obsolete Romanesque/High Gothic style, denoting the mixture of writings at the threshold to the 'modern' Late-Gothic period of the early 15th century!


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Wow, folks,


I just noticed that this thread had 60.035 views !!! as of today, 11 January 2014, midnight!
I have turned 61 today, and this doubtlessly is my greatest birthday present.

You've made it possible, thank you so much for trusting me, and for contributing that diligently, with 407 replies!


Good night to all of you, wherever you are,
and best,
Michael

[cornelistromp]

a very happy birthday Michael,

indeed a beautiful birthday gift, congratulations on your 61th and many more years full of weapons inspiration, up to the 100.000 with this thread.

very best wishes from holland,
Jasper

small present: battle between landsknechts :) ;)

[Matchlock]

Oh my God, Jasper,


I'm so baffled that I don't know what to say, so I just say 'thanks a million' for that brilliant idea and the thoughtful gift etching of the Landsknechts! ;) :rolleyes: :cool: :eek:


Best wishes as ever,
Michael

[fernando]

Ah ... you Bavarian villain :mad:
I tought your aniversary was confidential :confused:
Well, here it goes with my wishes for the one zillion views.

PARABENS P'RA VOCÊ,
NESTA DATA QUERIDA,
MUITAS FELICIDADES
MUITOS ANOS DE VIDA


Relax, no bad thoughts; this is only the Portuguese version of Happy Birthday to you ;)

[Matchlock]

... and all the best for the new year to come in my life - I understand sufficient of any Roman language to be able and get the sense when I see it written down! :rolleyes:

Muito obrigado, amigo meu 'Nando!

Actually I was determined to keep my birthday secret because I never celebrate but then I got sort of carried away by those multiple views of my thread ...


m

[Matchlock]

In addition to the instances posted in ##404 and 405, I would like to point out some more samples to illustrate the enormous bandwith of the spectrum of representing a certain Gothic cypher/numeral.

I also attached an illustration of an executioner's saw dated 1594, with cypher 4 still represented in the Gothic tradition,though done at the end of the 16th century!
The saw was at auction at Hermann Historica's, Munich, in October 2008.

Have fun!


Best,
Michael

[ulfberth]

Dear All,

and Michael, Jim, Jasper, Fernando and all other enthusiast here...

After reading on this forum I am truly amazed how much knowledge there is to be found here and it is for free !

I've been collecting for more than 35 years and it is a delight to be able to gain information here.

Now about the katsbalgers, for some reason they were always verry popular in Holland, however I never bought or traded one simply becauese in my opinion I never got an original in my hands and now I understand why... mayby someday

Kind regards

Ulfberth

[bkp747]

I love this "thread"! So much information, that I must re-read it, and I appreciate all the beautiful pictures. Thank you ALL for the fantastic forum.

[Matchlock]

Hi there,


Today, I must ask for understanding, for not posting here for such a long time.

In addition to computer problems that have not been solved yet (my machine will be off for a week for a general check), my fingers are getting paralyzed more and more every day; the diagnosis might beAmyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), the motor neuron disease that Stephen Hawking has. Even eating with a knife and fork has gotten very hard - and so has typing.

Nevertheless, here I present the finest preserved and most important Katzbalger to have been for sale ever. It is closely related to the famous specimen made for Ulrich von Schellenberg (now in the Vienna Armory, the Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien, and fetched a fantastic price with Bonhams on 26 November 2014.
You will remember Ulrich von Schellenberg's Katzbalger from my earlier posts in this thread, and find further images down here.

Like that museum sample, the one in discussion also retained its original tooled sheath/scabbard together with a bodkin (the original by-knife missing). Please note that the chape of the sheath is a 17th century replacement.
The pommel of the bodkin is made en suite to match that of the sword. A bodkin served at least two purposes: picking up food at a meal, and working as an awl or prick; for the latter task, it is pierced to receive a thread for sewing, allowing the Landsknecht to repair his clothes.
As I have often pointed out, the early Renaissance period was, among others, characterized by a great variety of combinations of weapons and tools.


Best as ever,
Michael

[Matchlock]

A few more views of the Schellenberg Katzbalger, followed by the Bohmams specimen.

When regarding the two oak wood plates forming the grip please note that originally, they were covered by a cord binding which was hidden beneath tooled leather.

m

[Matchlock]

Lots of detailed close-up studies.

[Matchlock]

The latten-inlaid bladesmith's mark, the tooled sheath and the bodkin also serving as an awl.

Please note the leather tooling at the bottom finial of the compartment for the by-knife and bodkin, ending in a wavy decorative element wrought in high relief and merging into the stitches of the seam.
That characteristic serpent- or flame-like Early Renaissance ornament is found on various types of weapons and their accouterments:
http://www.vikingsword.com (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8185&highlight=serpent+Early+Renaissance)
/vb/showthread.php?t=8185&highlight=serpent+Early+Renaissance (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8185&highlight=serpent+Early+Renaissance)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19033&highlight=serpent+Early+Renaissance
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7516&highlight=serpent+Early+Renaissance

[Matchlock]

In the top attachment, the stitched seam is seen passing over into a trefoil ornament representing the utmost stytilzation of a bunch of grapes.
For more on the characteristic Early Renaissance decorative element, please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19033&highlight=trefoil+bunch+grapes
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19010&highlight=trefoil+bunch+grapes
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18694&highlight=trefoil+bunch+grapes

[Matchlock]

.

[ulfberth]

Welcome back Michael !

We all missed you, I hope that your health stays stable so we can enjoy your company here and you'r knowledge.

Respectful greetings

Ulfberth

[Jim McDougall]

Just bumped this thread he was so proud of.

[ulfberth]

Just bumped this thread he was so proud of.
AMEN

[bkp747]

One of my favorite threads... I only knew Michael through emails, but I will miss him, as a brother.