A unique bronze barrel wall gun (doppelter Doppelhaken), Nuremberg, ca. 1515-20

[Matchlock]

This has been with me for exactly 20 years. I have never seen such a fine sample retaining its original oak stock and patina in any museum. If ever, all you are likely to find are detached barrels or, at best, re-stocked in later times.

The term bronze for this sort of cast barrels has become widely accepted. In illumitated manuscripts of historic periods, however, they were called "brass" haquebut barrels (Messing Hakenpuchsen). As this, of course, depends on the actual part of the components, copper and pewter (bronze) or copper and zinc (brass), we should maybe just call them copper alloys. Metallurgical research has shown that 16th century copper alloy barrels often contain traces of silver.

There is no doubt about this barrel being cast at one of the famous Nuremberg workshops the finest of which, at that period of time, were those of Beham (Peheim) und Pegnitzer. Sadly this barrel does not bear a maker's mark.

Its early Renaissance bronze four stage barrel allows for a close dating to 1515-20. As only bronze barrels follow roughly this scheme of staging it shall be referred to at large here.

Starting at the rear section, we have a short square section (quadratisches Bodenstück) which bears the integral back sight and pan (its cover now missing) and is decorated with a scale pattern and a fir-cone scale frieze (Tannenzapfenschuppen-Fries). Next, divided by an incised double line and fish scales cast in high relief, there is a long twelve sided section (Hinterstück), followed by another, shorter twelve sided section (Mittelstück) which is shifted to the first and also divided from a long round section (Vorderstück) by two incised lines and a fish scale frieze. Divided by another fish scale frieze and two incised lines, a moulded band between, there is an elongated muzzle head (Mündungskopf) bearing a long integral fore sight. The rounded hook is cast to about the middle of the barrel and is incised with a primitive sign composed of various dashes and symbolizing a cypher: this, of course, is not a mark but an improvised form of a number still found in a similar manner, in markings on beer mats today.

This fine and important piece retains its original oak stock attached by three iron nails which enter through two barrel loops beneath the rear end and before the muzzle head respectively, the one in the middle entering through a piercing in the hook.

Its statistics are: overall length 207 cm, barrel 126 cm, cal. 26 mm, overall weight 35 kg, barrel 25 kg, stock 10 kg.

With these measurements it was actually a piece of light artillery, not a long gun.
It was mounted on a wooden tripod and two men were required to fire it: one for aiming the piece and, this done, the second for igniting it (Richt- und Feuerschütze).

I attach two watercolor sources of illustration from the Maximilian arsenal inventories, early 16th century, showing a somewhat more archaic form of of the barrel. Note the headline in the first referring to the arms as "Maximilian Messing hagkenpuchsn" (brass barrel haquebuts). In the woodcut by Erhard Schön, Nuremberg, ca. 1530, the same primitive way of imitating cyphers is depicted on a slate board in a saloon scene.

Michael

[Matchlock]

A detail of the stylized cyphers on the slate board, ca. 1530, which compare to the numbering present on the hook of my Doppelhaken.
m

[Matchlock]

Detail of the numbering on the hook.

[Matchlock]

The original snap tinder lock is now missing but there is little doubt that it must have looked a lot like the earliest detached lock in my collection, which you will find pics of below.

The blackened oak full stock is painted with the coat of arms, a sword, and the full name of the Nuremberg war captain Cristoff Kress von Kressenstein, who was given this heavy wall gun by the Nuremberg elders for supporting their campaign against the Franconian robbar baron Thomas von Absberg in 1523. The Kressenstein coat of arms is repeated cast and chiseled in high relief on top of the copper alloy barrel.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The rest.

[Matchlock]

Hohenlohe-Langeburg is the very castle the wall gun in my collection came from. The one presented here today is very similar to mine, except for the somewhat longer muzzle section whose time of origin is documented and backed up by the date 1525 on the barrel, together with the Hohenlohe coat of arms.

Please note that the wall hook is incised with another example of a primitive numbering symbol, very similar to that on the hook of my piece.

Michael

[cannonmn]

Thanks for posting those fine weapons. I am always looking for similar items here in the USA but they don't surface very often. I thought perhaps you could help me with a question about the German Museum in Nuremberg. I'm sure you are familiar with A. Essenwein's two-volume work "QUELLEN ZUR GESCHICHTE DER FEUERWAFFEN" republished in 1969. I'd like very much to know if the Germanischen Museum still has the hackbut pictured in the plates volume, page B VII-e. There are two images on the lower right-side of page B VII identified on the page by letter "e." I would greatly like to obtain photographs of that particular item. Perhaps you have been there and have taken some photographs you could post or send to me? Does the museum still have that weapon? If you don't have photos of it, can you advise me how to go about getting them?

You seem to know a lot about hackbuts, so could you tell me where the hackbut pictured in page B VII (e) was made, if you have that information?

The reason I'm asking is that I have a hackbut nearly identical to that one which has the initials "J U R" engraved deeply near the breech. Do you know what that marking indicates? I have been trying for many years to identify that marking.

Thanks!

[Matchlock]

Hi John,

It has been so good to finally meet a third fellowman interested in the same stuff! :)

The haquebut you referred to, illustrated by a line drawing in Essenwein's basic work, is still preserved and on display in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg.

I'm attaching the pictures I have taken over two decades, plus a b/w photo taken by the museum about 100 years ago.

The piece is about 1.60 m long overall, the barrel length being ca. 1 m. The snap tinder-lock nailed to the stock at the right hand side of the breech may be contemporary. The stock is oak, painted black. The complete piece might weigh about 20 kg (German: doppelter Doppelhaken) and can be dated closely to ca. 1515-20. It was doubtlessly cast and stocked in Nuremberg.

The second piece on the images is dated 1534 on the bronze barrel, the present backsight being a Thirty Years War alteration (the original integral backsight at the base of the barrel removed).

In order to judge your haquebut, as well as the inscription, I would need to see overall images and close-ups.

Best,
Michael

[cannonmn]

Michael, thanks so much for the photos, that's a lot easier for me than having to deal with the museum.

I have this little slideshow of the hackbut, and if this is not adequate I will sit down and try to figure out how to post photos individually on this forum; of course I have separate url's for each one.

This hackbut was ordered by Ulrich von Schellenberg; you must be familiar with him because you like the Katzbalger, and Ulrich's sword in the KHM is one one of the finest I can imagine. I have a photo of it if anyone needs it but I have a feeling you all know that one.

The barrel is all I have, it weighs 36 lbs, is 36.75 inches long, and the bore measures 20.3mm, or 0.8 inches.

The barrel is bronze with a few iron inclusions including the chaplets for the core and one iron ring underneath (broken off.)

Decorations include flames, trefoils, and other unknown geometric shapes in patterns or rings around the barrel. The coat of arms is that of von Schellenberg.

Above the coat of arms are the letters which at first appear to be "I V R" but I am told by historians should be read as "J U R." I have thought of several possibilities for these letters but have not arrived on one that is foolproof yet.

Here's the slideshow, just mouse over the grid to see the photos.

There are several photos of a small round mark which appears to be struck, on the flash pan, and I thought it might be some kind of proof mark or maker's mark, but it is very indistinct, some simple figure, perhaps a bird in flight, in a circle?

Any insight you can give on this is most welcome.

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/?action=view&current=810e3bc0.pbw

[Matchlock]

Hi John,

I would have been much disappointed by myself, had I not recognized your barrel (remember it's not a complete haquebut) at first sight though the images on photobucket are tiny.

For all who wish to learn more on that item and its coat-of-arms, I post all the (unfortunately very small) images originally posted by the Springfield Arsenal because they were searching for information. I have to admit that was astonished to see the term of a the Late Gothic ornament quatrefoil misspelled as quatrafoil by a musem staff member ...

Your barrel with its unusually fine and profusely rich chiseled Early Renaissance decoration can be dated to ca. 1525-35. The originally swiveling bronze pan cover is now missing, just as on my Doppelhaken.

In order to be able and tell you more I would definitely need good-resolution images of the whole piece, as well as of all the details you questioned.

As a Medieval and Renaissance arms historian I can affirm the information given to you on how to interpret the three initials on your barrel. I am quite sure though they mark some later kind of arsenal inventory signature, and not that of the original owner.

In any case, this is a very fine - apart from obviously being preserved in excavated or salvaged condition - and espacially historically high-ranking item in early firearms history, so congratulations! ;)

Do you have other similar items to match? I posted many items and overviews from my highly specialized collection here over the years, just see my threads.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

More images.

[Matchlock]

And more.

[Matchlock]

Even more.

[Matchlock]

The rest.

[cannonmn]

Michael, I should clear up the misspelling:

I have to admit that was astonished to see the term of a the Late Gothic ornament quatrefoil misspelled as quatrafoil by a musem staff member ...

The video that came from was produced and directed by me, my company is Springfield Arsenal LLC. Perhaps you were thinking of the US National Park facility in Springfield, MA, known as "Springfield Arsenal," an historic site. We have nothing to do with that, we are a small company dealing in military relics, with a sizeable collection of artillery and odd items on the side.

Of course now you must recognize that the misspelling was inserted on purpose to attract the attention of, and elicit comments from highly educated and knowledgeable persons such as yourself!

I will make it a point to make larger images of the hackbut barrel available, forgive me but I will probably continue to use the term hackbut out of habit even though it is obviously a barrel.

I have asked some local experts in Altdeutsch here in the US to assist with a competent translation of about a paragraph of material on Ulrich von Schellenberg, from the online version of the ADB. The text is in what I'm told is "very old German." Google translate cannot make sense out of much of it. I had years of German in school but that was centuries ago, or so it seems, and most of it is gone, and I cannot make sense regarding who is doing what to whom in some cases. Friends who are native German-speakers cannot read it. There may also be some errors in it, or it could simply be my mis-reading. One portion of it mentions "when Ulrich was just beginning his military career in 1501.." That does not make sense to me because since he was born in 1487, he would have been only 14 years of age in 1501, at which time I suspect he had not yet left home to attend law school in Italy.

We have two other odd early weapons and will certainly undertake discussion of those here after we get the basic information on this hackbut digested.

[cannonmn]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut03.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut04.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut05.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut06.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut08.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut09.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut10.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut14.jpg

[cannonmn]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut15.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut16.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut17.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut18.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut19.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut20.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut21.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut22.jpg

[cannonmn]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut23.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut24.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut2008001.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut2008006.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbut2008010.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/hackbut/Hackbutmark07.jpg

[Matchlock]

Good images, John,

Thanks!

Great emerald green patina, very charming.

I indeed tried to find out about that 'Springfield Arsenal' but I didn't. I was convinced though that is twas not the official one in MA as no place was given.

As to the paragraph on Schellenberg you mentioned: what exactly do you mean by Altdeutsch - Medieval German? Is is hand-written or print? From about what century is it?

If you wish to have a try, maybe I could help you along.

Best,
Michael

[cannonmn]

The portion of that article I cannot make much sense of is this, which seems to have old German word-order and impossibly long sentences:

"Zu den berühmtesten Gliedern dieses Hauses gehörte der Eingangs genannte Kriegsmann. Derselbe, anfangs nicht für den Kriegsdienst bestimmt, studirte auf den Universitäten Pavia und Bologna die Jurisprudenz und erwarb sich den Grad eines Doctors beider Rechte. Bald jedoch mehr von dem damals sehr im Flor gewesenen ritterlichen Waffenhandwerk angezogen, wohnte er von 1512 ab den hauptsächlich auf Betreiben des Cardinals Schinner um das Herzogthum Mailand unternommenen Heerzügen des Kaisers Maximilian I. in Oberitalien (u. A. der Belagerung des von ihm eingenommenen Pavia) bei, und wurde von diesem zur Anerkennung für seine hervorragenden militärischen Verdienste zum Obristen ernannt, auch unter seine Hof- und Kriegsräthe aufgenommen. Bald darauf zog er, als König Ludwig XII. von Frankreich wiederholt Mailand gegen Maximilian Sforza, den Sohn Moro's in Anspruch nahm, wieder mit seinen tapfern Schweizern nach Italien und hatte wesentlichen Antheil an den ehrenvollen Waffenthaten gegen die französischen Heerführer Trivulzi und Latremouille, so an der ruhmvollen standhaften Vertheidigung Novaras, so daß der Kaiser, der ihn gemeinsam mit seinem Bruder Hans v. S. schon im J. 1501 gleich beim Beginn seiner kriegerischen Laufbahn zum Ritter geschlagen hatte, ihm hauptsächlich für sein unvergleichliches Verhalten in der Schlacht bei Vicenza am 18. Oct. 1511 gegen die Venetianer, in welcher er mit 36 Wunden bedeckt für todt auf dem Wahlplatz liegen blieb, durch seinen Feldherrn Raimund v. Cardona diese Ehre zum zweiten Male widerfahren ließ. Auch Maximilian's Nachfolger, Kaiser Karl V., nahm auf den Rath des Grafen Rudolph von Sulz Schellenberg's Dienste in Anspruch; und wiederholt führte|S. die tapfern eidgenössischen Schaaren nach Italien, zeichnete sich in den Schlachten an der Bicocca und von Pavia rühmlichst aus und trug zur Wiedereroberung Mailands von den Franzosen und Einsetzung Franz II. Sforza in das Herzogthum Mailand das Seinige redlich bei. Schließlich machte er noch die brillante Vertheidigung Wien's gegen Sultan Soliman d. Gr. mit. Nach einem thatenreichen Leben beschloß er, überall hochgeachtet und geehrt, seine Tage ruhig in seiner Heimath, woselbst er im Chore der Pfarrkirche begraben wurde. S. wurde von seinen Zeitgenossen als ein Mann von imposanter Persönlichkeit, von Intelligenz und Thatkraft, als ein biederer, witziger und jovialer Ritter gerühmt, der seinen, hauptsächlich aus Schweizern bestehenden, Landsknechten, welche für ihn durchs Feuer gegangen wären, gehörig zu imponiren verstand."

The excerpt came from this page:
http://www.deutsche-biographie.de/sfz78138.html

[Matchlock]

O.K., here's my translation:

Among the noblest members of that House was the aforementioned warrior. Though not headed for service from the beginning, he studied law at the universities of Pavia and Bologna and graduated as a doctor of jurisprudence.
Soon however he got attracted by knightly crafts which were very popular then, and from 1512 onward, and he joined the Upper Italy campaigns of the Emperor Maximilian I (among them the siege of Pavia - in 1525, translator's addition - , which was taken by him (Schellenberg)), which were mostly run by Cardinal Schinner on behalf of the Duchy of Milan; in approval of his outstanding military deserts, he was appointed to be a colonel (by Maximilian) and accordingly incorporated among both the privy and war councilors. Soon after, when King Louis XII of France repeatedly requested Milan's services against Maximilian Sforza, Moro's son, he resumed another Italian campaign together with his brave Swiss mercenaries and had a decisive share of the honorable warriors' deeds against the French campaign leaders Trivulzi and Latremouile, e.g. at the gloriously steadfast defense of Novara. Consequently, the Emperor, after confering the knightly acolade upon (Ulrich) and his brother Hans v. Schellenberg already in 1501, right at the very start of his military career, saw that the same honor was done to him a second time by his commander Raimund von Cordoba, especially in recognition of his peerrless behavior during the battle near Vicenza on 18 October 1511 where he was found on the battle ground, covered with 36 wounds and left behind believed to be dead.
Maximilian's successor, the Emperor Charles V, on the advice of Count Rudolph von Sulz, made use of Schellenberg's service; repeatedly Schellenberg led the brave Swiss armies against Italy, standing out most laudable in the battles at the Biocca and of Pavia and righteously adding his part to the reconquest of Milan from the French and to the installation of Franz II Sforza in the Duchy of Milan. Finally he also joined in the brilliant defense of Vienna against Sultan Suleiman the Great (in 1529, translator's addition).
After a life full of deeds, and both highly esteemed and honored throughout the land, he spent his old age quietly in his home country, where he was buried beneath the parish church quire. His contemporaries used to praise Schellenberg as a man of imposing personality, of intelligence and energy, an upright, witty and cheerful knight who knew how to impress his mercenaries which were mostly composed of Swiss, who would have gone thru fire and water for him.

Wow, that was one helluva stress, even for a university graduate. :D :cool: :eek:

Have fun,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Those interested in Ulrich von Schellenberg's personal Katzbalger sword of ca. 1515, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=129672#post129672

m

[cannonmn]

Michael, thanks so much for translating that difficult text, it certainly clears up a lot. That's the first mention I've seen anywhere that he had a brother named Hans, although the writeup begins with "Hans Ulrich von Schellenberg" and I did not understand why Hans was in block type font and 'Ulrich von Schellenberg' was in italics. Perhaps to someone more familiar with the ADB format, this would indicate two different people were being named. Brother Hans got such brief mention that I completely missed it. I greatly appreciate the assistance.

[Matchlock]

Here are the coats-of-arms of the von-Schellenberg family,

a) 16th c., Kissleg, Allgäu, Southwest Bavaria, and
b) their device of 1609 (after Siebmacher).

m

[cannonmn]

You are correct. Those bars and colors of the basic "blazon" are always present. The shield shape changed over time with the general practice of the heralds.

The following well-known book shows an earlier shield type that matches the shield shape on the hackbut. The book states that this earlier shape which I call the "coffee cup" was used only from 1470-1525, as I recall on page 72 or nearby.

Author: Ottfried Neubecker
Title: "Heraldry; Sources, Symbols, and Meaning"
Price: US$ 4.06
Book Description: 288 pp., folding plate, hardcover, very good in a very good dust jacket

[fernando]

[QUOTE=cannonmn] ... I have this little slideshow of the hackbut, and if this is not adequate I will sit down and try to figure out how to post photos individually on this forum; of course I have separate url's for each one...
QUOTE]

Yes, please do that, by all means.
You may read here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

If you need further help, just tell

[cannonmn]

Thanks Fernando. All the photos I have were posted in replies no. 16-18 above; I hope they will be satisfactory for your purposes.

[cannonmn]

I've found a more extensive biography on Ulrich von Schellenberg, here:

http://springfieldarsenal.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/armory-of-heroes-excerpt.pdf

Unfortunately it is in German script so I can't transfer it to Google translate for the usual quick-and-dirty translation. I wonder if there are any free German script OCR programs out there so I could at least turn it into characters to enter an automatic translator? I can transliterate German script into more useful font, but takes more time than I have.

I'm not going to bother Michael about this one, he's already spent enough time translating this stuff.

I've also thought more about the "JUR" marking on the gun. I still believe it will be impossible to determine, with certainty, what that stands for, however it is almost certainly from a later period than the "1525" estimated date of manufacture, as Michael has said. One reason we know that is because the letters were crowded into a nice open space intentionally left above the coat-of-arms so the c.o.a. would be reasonably centered in an open (plain undecorated) area. I think the letters indicate a subsequent owner, after Ulrich had left the battle zone of northern Italy ca. 1529. It is possible that it was captured at some point, or more likely simply retained by whatever Swiss mercenary was using it, probably with Ulrich's consent. Or perhaps it remained under control of Ulrich's commander, General Ramon de Cardona. Who knows.

[Matchlock]

John, I read this 'biography' and believe me: it's not worth translating from a modern scholarly point of view. All it is is nothing more than an even more pompous and poetically as well as patriotically overdrawn 18th c. legendary version of the already rather bombastic 19th c. text I translated for you. No more facts, just heroic fantasy. I wouldn't give a dime.

Best,
Michael

[cannonmn]

Thanks Michael, that will save a lot of trouble.

[cannonmn]

I was leafing through Essenwein, A., QUELLEN ZUR GESCHICHTE DER FEUERWAFFEN, Academische Druck u.v. Graz 1969, Tafel Band, and noticed drawings of some cannons cast by Peter II Mulich of Zwickau. They have rings of undulating flames at various places along the barrel, just like my hackbut. These cannons range in date from 1523 to 1529. This is interesting to me as it indicates a connection between my hackbut and these cannons. I wonder if my hackbut could have been made by Mulich, who may have used the flames as a kind of trademark? If not, were these rings of undulating flames significant somehow to Charles V or to the Holy Roman Empire? What is the connection indicated by these flames? I am posting two images here which I can do under the international doctrine of fair use for educational purposes.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/Forums60/Hackbut/IMG_1944S.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/Forums60/Hackbut/IMG_1947S.jpg

[cannonmn]

This photo, found on the web, is dated 1940, at the time this cannon was taken from the Army Museum in Paris and moved to the City Museum in Zwickau. A drawing of this elegant cannon is in the previous post. I'd like to know if this is the only surviving Peter Mulich cannon. I've emailed the museum in Zwickau to ask if they can provide any better photos of this cannon. If anyone has any better photos of this gun, please post them here. There is apparently a photo of this gun in the book "Deutches Bronzegeschützrohre" which I don't have.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/Forums60/Hackbut/TheLioncannon1940invalidesbwcaptionA.jpg

[cannonmn]

Here's an excerpt from a Google Book on the Elector Frederick which, although my German is poor, seems to clearly indicate Peter was involved in casting "buchsen." There are so many different terms for this general class of weapons that it is confusing to non-German-speaking researchers, and perhaps some Germans as well.

My latest question: Since now we know Peter II Mulich was a Feuerbuchsen-caster and not only a cannon-founder, are any other hackbuts/arquebus known which can be attributed to Peter Mulich of Zwickau (formerly of Nuremberg.)


Rr. 122o. Dienstverschreibung Herzog Johanns für sich und

seine Erben an P e t e r M ü l i c h als Büchsengiesser auf

Lebenszeit, besonders in Zwickau sich zum Giessen

gebrauchen zu lassen, mit jährlichem Gehalt von 5o Gulden

Landeswährung und ein Winterhofkleid aus der fürstl.

Schneiderei, vnd so er in vnser arbeith ist vnnd vnns

giessen wird sollen vnnd wollen wir Ime alle wege vom

centner Zu lohne geben wir denhalben gulden bei seiner

eigen Cost Kollen Feuer Helffe vnd getzeugk doch das wir

ime die speisse als kupffer tzin messing vnd was zum werk

die notturfft sein wird verschaffen Zu Weymar Suntag noch

michalis Anno 1 223. (4 Oct.).

Die durchlauchtigen Hochgeborene Fürsten, vnnd herrn, Herr

Johanns Fridrich der Mitler, Herr Johanns Wilhelm, vnnd

Herr Johanns Fridrich der Jünger, gebrüdern, Herzogenn zu

Sachsen und vnnsern gnedige Fürsten, vnnd herren haben

Peter Mülichen, Bürgers vnnd Büchsengiessers Zu Zwickau

schreiben, heren lossen vnnd Ihme dorauf anzuzeigenn

bevohlenn, das er binnen Zweyen Monaten, Zu Weymar, Im

Hofflager vidrumb annsuchen solte, Ihme alsdann doselbst

vff solche seine suchung, bescheidt gegeben werden, Dat.

Nevstadt ann der Orla, Dienstags nach Jubilate Anno liiij.

(17. April 1554).

Brief Peter Millich Bürger vnd Büchsengiesser datiert

Zwickau Donnerstag nach Jubilate (19 April.)

An die Fürsten worin er schreibt, dass er von Kurfürst

Friedrich und Herzog Johann auf Lebenszeit bestallt worden

sei «Welcher Dinst mit püchsen vnd glocken giessen vieler

schonen grosser vnd kleinen stücke, auch etlichen Zügen,

vnd schiessen Ich nhun gotlob Inn die 31 Jhar auch unter

Regierung des Kurlürsten Johann Friedrich E. F. G. geübten

Hern Vaters.

Schlechte schweren Zeiten «ist mir nhun In sieben Jharen

mein Jhar gelt vnd kleidung nit gereicht worden, er hätte

zur Antwort bekommen, er möge bessere Zeiten abwarten, aber

wie ich zu bequemer Zeit deshalb anregung Zuthun

entschlossen, Ist sein Churfürstl. gnaden verschieden mich

ein unglück dero ich doch durch treibung aus der stadt, vnd

entwendung des meinen vil erlitten, auch noch kein andern

hern, dann E. F. G. weiss vnd erkhenn, ist er dr Zuversicht

auch von ihnen die bestallung auf Lebenszeit anerkannt zu

erhalten, mit grossen vnd kleynen püchsen, glocken vnd

grabsteinen zugiessen vnd sonsten von allerley von messing

vnd kuppfer. Er will auch persönlich kommen, auch schöne

Kunst vnd muster mitzubringen vnd zuweysen, Darob E. F. G.

sondern gefallen haben sollen,

Von gottes gnaden Johanns Friedrich d. Mittler Herzog zu

Sachsen etc. Sontag Visitationis Mariae 1557. (4 Juli) thun

kund dass wir Peter Mülich von unsern Hofdienst gnediglich

verlaubt. Vnd aus sonderlich gnaden Im jehrlich die

Besoldung an geld als 4o gulden und auch seinen leib die

Sommer und Winterkleidung, und vor die Unterhaltung seiner

zwei pferde das ehr die abgehen hat lassen 2 Erfurdische

malder korn und ein erfurdischer malder gersten, und damit

er sich sambt seinem weibe soviel desto besser habe

zubehelffen. So haben wir hierüber ihm vnd itzigenn seinem

weibe vf ihr beider lebenn langk die Thanneck sampt dem

Ackerbau und wiesenwachs und anderen, wie er das biss doher

inne gehabt, Vnd Ime vff vnseren befehl eingeräumt und

gegeben ist worden, zuhaben, zunutzen und zugeniessen

gnediglich vrschrieben gut Thanneck, er soll es in baulich

wesen erhalten und darauf nichts vpffänden odr vrschreiben.

Nach seines und seines Weibes Tode soll es wieder vnserm

Ambte Eissenbergk wiederum heimkommen.

♦Rechnung von 1522 bis 1523 (B. b. 4312). icxxxv gulden dem

buchsngisser zu Zwickau von eyner feuerbuchsn zu giessen.

* Rechnung von 1523 bis 1324 (B. b. 4324).

1 gulden peter Mulich büchchsengisser zu Zwickau Seine

Jarbesoldung, Michaelis nechst felhaffig (?) gewest,

entricht zu weymer am Sambstag nach Simon et Jude anno

xxiii.

xcii gulten peter Mulich buchsengisser zu Zwickau an der

grossen Neuen Carthaun zugissen, hält lxxxiii Centner von

jed. iiii gulden hat hiruon ym oster vnd Michelsmarckt

negst unschynen iic gulden auch impfangen inhalts derselben

bucher Zcalt zu Weymer am Sambstag nach Simon et Judae

xxiiii.

*Ostermarkt 1524 (B. b. 4328).

ic dem buchssingisser zu Zwickau vff arbait.

* Michaelismarkt 1524 (B. b. 4323).

ic gulden dem buchssengisser zu Zwickau, hat ym Ostermarkt

negst auch soul (?) empfangen.

ic gulden für viii ff Zcin zubuss zur Neuen büchssen.

xli gulden xvii gl. ii pf. von der grossen büchssen ym

Schloss Zwickau, Zuschlagen vnd andere vnkost ....

vii gulden xiii gl. zulon Zweyen furleuten. welche die

Neuen büchssen von Zwickau biss gen Weymar fürgespannen.

♦Michaelismarkt 1524 (B. b. 4233).

ic gulden für xiii centnr Zcin Zcubuss zu der Neuen

buchssen Nickel Heynel Zu zwickav zalt.

xli guld xvii gl. ii pf. von der grossen buchssen in Schlos

Zwickau. »Ostermarkt 1525 (B. b, 4336).

xxv gulden dem buchsengiesser zu Zwickav Jar Zcins vff

lebenlang.

iicxlv gulden peter Mulich dem buchssengiesser zu Zwickau

von der Neuen Buchssen, basiliscus gnant, helt lxx center

von id. iiii gulden inhalts seiner quitanz zu gissenn.

ic guld demsselben buchssengisser von Neuem wieder vff

arbait.

Source: http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=mulich+zwickau+flammen&sig=Nbfe8spQ6hnFekKmZrTJKKHvB_M&id=vI0ZAAAAYAAJ&ots=pdxLwrckzI&output=text

[Matchlock]

Hi John,

I'm afraid it's a bit too risky to narrow the possible founder of your barrel down to just one person who was active in Zwickau. Nuremberg and Augsburg were the great centers of early gunmaking and founding in the 16th c. The flames you mentioned are by no way characteristic of a specific craftsmen or workshop but originated from the Italian 15th c. Renaissance where they firstly symbolized a fire throwing dragon or serpent-like monster and, using this zoomorphic ornamentation, were employed to make look firearm barrels like embodiments of monsters breathing fire. Soon after that, the flames became common in all kinds of arts and crafts; e.g. the vertical slits in the Landsknecht trousers derived from these flame ornaments.

Best,
Michael

[cannonmn]

Michael, thanks again for your information. I do think there is something to be said for Peter II Mulich having used the rings of undulating flames as a trademark for his bronze cannons, as each one of the four for which drawings (including the one surviving specimen in bronze) have the same kind of decorative rings. Using decorative rings of evenly-spaced wavy (undulating) flames is I think a bit stronger evidence than just flames per se. Another thing to consider is that Peter II Mulich was indeed from Nuremberg, where his father had always practiced his trade, but he moved to Zwickau at some point in his career, apparently about 1520-23. However these are merely idle ramblings or at most "food for thought, and you are indeed the expert and I am but a slow-learning and somewhat impetuous student.

Two additional features of the "Schellenberg" hackbut may help tell us something. What looks like a proof-mark on the side of the flash pan seems to match some of those shown for Saxony in my 1943-dated two-volume Swedish-language set of Der Stoeckel. However the marks in the book are supposed to be much later than my gun, so who knows?

A final feature to consider which may help identify the maker is the very prominent iron core-pin, or chaplet, which goes through the breech vertically and is exposed most noticeably on top. Chaplets were always used to hold the cores in place while casting cannons in those days. Have you seen such core pins or chaplets in other bronze hackbuts?

Thanks again for sharing your incredible database and knowledge of these rare pieces.

[cannonmn]

I had my "Ulrich von Schellenberg" hackbut "shot" by an x-ray analyzer today to see what it was made of. I had always thought the metal would be similar to cannons, namely gunmetal, which is approximately 90% copper and 10% tin. Poor innocent, ignorant me! Here's what the analyzer came up with. The very high iron and lead percentages were quite a surprise. I wondered why there would be any aluminum at all, but some other things tested the same day which I know are antique, also showed around 3% aluminum. Go figure!

Test no. and ID:

#10-Bronze Hackbut ca. 1510, presumed to be bronze

Al – 3.62

Si – 7.24

P – 2.08

Ti - .33

Mn - .08

Fe – 17.23

Ni - .04

Cu – 24.68

Zr - .028

Sn – 5.16

Sb – 3.23

Ir – 2.84

Pb – 33.43

[cannonmn]

All I can think of is that the x-ray tester made a mistake. I had the operator shoot the machine at the muzzle of the hackbut to stay well clear of the small iron pieces nearer the breech. He shot several other objects I had, all either iron or steel, and the results on all of those seemed quite reasonable. I'm wondering if he had to change a setting on the machine to get a correct reading for a nonferrous object, and didn't do so? I didn't tell him the hackbut wasn't iron like all the other things. I'll have to ask him during the coming work-week.

[Matchlock]

Hi John,

This result does not puzzle me at all. Actually it represents what one should expect of early 16th c. bronzes; moreover it pefectly backs up metallurgic analyses of early-16th c. gun bronzes carried out in the 1960's, which I have menioned earlier on this forum. They even found traces of silver and other metallic components.


I think this is due to at least three different facts:

Firstly, raw ore in these ages could not be melted to be as pure as it can be today.
Secondly, all the knowledge on the reliability of bronze the founders then had was based merely on practical experience. I would imagine them them to have deliberately added traces of other sorts of metal because they believed - or had learned - that these additions would make the outcome more durable.
Thirdly, popular superstition played an enormous role in ages past. This means that people believed that certain substances just had to be added to whatever they were about to produce in order to ge a good result. It was magic make believe instead of today's hardheaded science that ruled over everday arts and crafts, including medicine and fireworks. When analyzing 16th-17th firework substances you e.g. find traces of urine - simply because it contained saltpeter - and various earths. People felt that that special mixture would guarantee a great outcome - and it obviously did.

Please also cf.
http://books.google.de/books?id=4OzoLMVVnxUC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=metallurgical+analysis+gun+bronzes&source=bl&ots=VqZMxFQCid&sig=ZOk6vFo0aj8hXKAvvtGyUX9IPhI&hl=de&sa=X&ei=Bc9tT6rJMMHTsgaovI2rAg&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=metallurgical%20analysis%20gun%20bronzes&f=false
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_and_metallurgy_in_medieval_Europe

When I had the varnish of one of my Landsknecht arquebus of. ca. 1540 spectroanalyzed in the early 1990's traces of silver and even gold were discovered - in the dark brown lacquer on an almost 500 year-old gun stock!

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

After a couple of years I wish to add some more close-ups uf my huge Nuremberg wallgun (doppelter Dopelhaken) that this thread is about.

What I have not mentioned before: it is preserved complete together with its original wooden ramrod (wormed and repaired in places, rear end incomplete) retaining its blackened threaded iron finial (Setzerkopf) and the original scourer (Laufkrätzer)! The ramrod is seen resting on the left side of the heavy piece; it was broken into three separate parts when I bought it some 25 years ago.
The wooden muzzle plug is old but associated.
The originally swiveling pan cover is missing from the barrel.

The gun and ramrod were claimed by the previous owner to have been deaccessioned by the Princely Collections of Hohenlohe-Langenburg in Franconia in the 1960's. On attending their collections by special appointment I photographed two similar Nuremberg bronze wall pieces the better of which, dated 1525, I posted above in post #6.

m

[Matchlock]

Three more, showing details of the ramrod with its blackened iron finial retaining the original scourer.

m

[Matchlock]

Wow, 3,000 views of this thread is reason enough to say thanks! :cool:

This wall gun is a great historical piece and unique in any private collection worldwide.

I am very happy to have been able and hold it.


m

[Matchlock]

Two similar and contemoprary, but notably smaller Nuremberg barrels of wallguns, the first ca. 1520, the second with its shorter muzzle section ca. 1510-15, both struck with a Gothic minuscule p mark, which, when found on bronze barrels, can be safely attriuted to the Nuremberg founder Sebald Behaim whose name was pronounced Pehaim in his Franconian dialect.

The other prolific Nuremberg bronze foundry, that of Endres Pegnitzer, can be safely ruled out for marked barrels as he is known to have signed his barrels EPGM, for Endres Pegnitzer Goss Mich (Endres Pegnitzer founded me), the letters characteristically cast in high relief within a coat-of-arms.

In safe conclusion this means that for barrels unsigned and unmarked, either foundry of Behaim/Pehaim or Pegintzer may be held accountable while when a bronze/brass barrel is struck with a minuscule p mark, it should be attributed to the Behaim/Pehaim workshop.

Attached at bottom is a very fine but unsigned and unmarked Nuremberg wallgun barrel of ca. 1520-25, preserved retaining an unusually charming emerald green patina.


m

[Matchlock]

One more close-up of the rear section; as on most early-16th c. bronze barrels, the originally swiveling pan cover is missing while the riveted pin is preserved.

[Matchlock]

For early-16th c. Nuremberg barrels of arquebuses (small 'long' guns), please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15381

[Matchlock]

Another, similiar early-16th c. Nuremberg wallgun bronze/brass barrel is preserved in the George F. Harding collection, in The Art Institute of Chicago.

It seems from the photo that the pan has been removed from the right-hand side of the breech.

m

[Marcus den toom]

Incredible Michael, just came across this thread.
Any new information on these wall guns? :)

I found a very interesting website on hand cannons.
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Black%20Powder%20Muskets/Locks/Hand%20Gonnes%20&%20Matchlocks.htm

[Matchlock]

Hi Marcus,


And thanks for re-enlivening that old thread of mine. Yes, that's a highly important historic piece in virtually 'untouched' condition for 500 years! Imagine! :cool: Apart from the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg and the privately owned Schloss Hohenlohe-Langenburg, where I took some of the images posted in this thread, they do not exist in any German, Austrian or Swiss museum or any private collection (except mine)!

Had I new information on such items I would post it right away.


The old site on early hand cannon has one big flaw: the tiny photos that cannot be enlarged! :o
How can anybody possibly design a site like that??!!! Grrrrrrr ....



Best,
m

[Marcus den toom]

I found a other bronze hackbut like yours. Sold trough Sotheby's but i can't find it anywhere.

http://i41.tinypic.com/rihlat.jpg

[Matchlock]

I recall this one; it was mounted on the present 'carriage' in the 19th c., the Nuremberg barrel ca. 1515-20 but heavily overcleaned.

It cannot match my unique piece in any way.


m

[Marcus den toom]

Quit right Michael, but still you have to admit that the basic form is the same :p

Sadly, most museums care more about making there presentations as shiny as can be, instead of teaching the folks the facts. A simple photoshop artist could have made the same shiny barrel on paper :(

I found another haquebut (?) matchlock gun on the web, no other pictures though.

edit: wait a second, this is yours Michael?

http://i39.tinypic.com/110adte.jpg

[Matchlock]

Yes, Marcus,


I'm extremely proud to say that this indeed is my piece! :cool: :D

I ordered many extra images right before the auction from Tom Del Mar and then bought it, together with the unique combined matchlock and flintlock MONTECUCCOLI musket including its original long folding bayonet from the Stauffenberg collection in Franconia/Bavaria, where it was since it was made in 1666! This makes me only the second owner of the Montecuccoli piece after 350 years - imagine!!! Both pieces are in fine, virtualy 'untouched' and patinated condition. The Montecuccoli musket M 1666 is the one with the pierced butt in the second and third images attached.

The catalog description of the short brass-alloy barrel arquebus with the earliest kind of pre-petronel cherrywood full stock (German krummer Landsknechtkolben) was completely misreading the facts that the barrel is of Maximilian Landsknecht type, most probably cast in Maximilian I's foundry of Mühlau near Innsbruck in about 1495-1500 and struck with a characteristic Late-Gothic founder's mark, The gun obviously was restocked during the South German peasant wars (Bauernkriege) of 1525, and the primitive snap-tinderlock of that Early-Renaissance period was, obsolete by long then, 'modernized' in the High-Baroque period, when everything was badly needed that would still fire: at the end of the Thirty Years War, the 1640's, by re-using an older matchlock mechanism of ca. 1580-1600. I associated an original long tiller trigger to the gun and put it on my wall. Done!

I will post these two guns in separate threads when I can take good images in spring!
Till then, the images attached will have to do. :p


Best,
Michael

[Marcus den toom]

The pictures are good enough to make me go :eek:

I found a pile of pictures on the web, apparantly a nice overview site for all sorts of pictures and subjects. :o

http://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=handgonnes
http://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=handgonne

[Matchlock]

Many of these photos are by me!

Michael

[Marcus den toom]

I also found this book on handgonnes, but i am not sure about its scientific accuracy :o
"Medieval Handgonnes: The first black powder infantry weapons, by Sean Mclachlan"

http://www.amazon.com/kindle/dp/B004M5H9O4/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_eos_detail

[Matchlock]

It's not expensive but I have a copy and it was not worth it. The few photos of original pieces are from the Royal Armouries Leeds and are printed tiny.
As far as the 'Medieval' site is concerned: how serious can you expect a booklet to be when the title (!) page illustrates a true Medieval long gun next to a detached wall gun barrel of ca. 1600 when the Middle Ages were over for 100 years?! :mad:

m

[Matchlock]

Another, similar and simultaneous, Nuremberg copper alloy/bronze hackbut barrel, ca. 1515-20, is preserved in the collection at Grandson castle, Switzerland.
The pan is an inapt later addition.

For both temporary and stylistic comparison, I attached another, earlier, ca. 1500-10, of characteristic French make, retaining its original pan that never had a cover (!), fitted with trunnions and cast in high relief with a coat-of-arms, from the same museum.


m

[Matchlock]

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE RESPECTIVE BUYER (who may have been the same in both cases).

The first item is the most ridiculous and primitive mid 20th c. "Italian" piece made to fool the biggest fool ever.

Compared to that, Goofy's "blunderbusses" are purest gold; they, at least, are funny ...

The second item is the world's finest known Nuremberg cast brass, or "bronze", haquebut barrel, half a millennium old, unmatched, and once ordered by an important person of history:
Ulrich von Schellenberg,
whose extremely fine Katzbalger is preserved in the Vienna Habsburg Armory, at the Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien.

They both fetched the same price, in the land of ... whatsoever.

The consigner, and the auction house, succeeded in generating a truly Freudian slip, misspelling
"hackbutt", for haquebut/hackbut.
On second thought, though, they mave been right ...

The State of Austria could not afford to purchase that singular piece - not now, nor in years in come ...
Tu felix Austria ..?!


A very sad "Good Night",
from a very sad

Michael,
who did his very best to save that barrel
but had to quit,
or commit murder suicide ... :mad:

[Matchlock]

I bet the oldest item in the images is the wooden stand ...

Just look at the crispness of the drilled touch hole - a 15th c. barrel smith would just have punched the hole through the red hot barrel ...

Of course, that would have left a notable mold around the hole which, at the same time, would have held enough priming powder for the igniting iron to set off the load!

All this is so blatantly obvious that it seems just unbelievable.


m

[Matchlock]

.

[Matchlock]

Some samples of authentic Gothic majuscule and minuscule script attached.

Compared to them, the lettering on this barrel, intended to look "antique"; actually, it cannot be termed but the most primitive sham the author has ever come across.


Also note the various dents and scratches, plus the ridiculous "aged" surface condition.

23,000 USD.
Well done.
Have fun, everybody.



Michael Trömner

[Matchlock]

Now here is a really important thing, the brass/"bronze" haquebut barrel cast in Nuremberg in ca. 1535 for Ulrich von Schellenberg.
The authentic 16th century term for the kind of copper alloy used was brass (German: Messing).

Contrary to what the catalog description stated, it is by no means a completely preserved "haquebut", and cannot compare to the uniqe Doppelter Doppelhaken, Nuremberg, ca. 1515-20, preserved in
The Michael Trömner Collection,
and even retaining its original ramrod.


Attachments, from top:
- haquebuts with brass barrels (Messing hagkenpuchsen) in one of the arsenals of Maximilian I, ca. 1507

- the finely preserved haquebut wall gun in the autor's collection

[Matchlock]

- A few views of the dismantled wall gun in the autor's collection

- the Schellenberg barrel

[Matchlock]

Characteristic of the Nuremberg sense of style in the mid-1530's, the barrel is shaped and sectioned like the columns in contemporary archictecture. Reflecting the traditional Nuremberg style seen on the earlier, five-staged barrel of the wall gun in The Michael Trömner Collection, it is divided into four main sections, separated and subdivided by filed moldings, thistle shaped acanthus trefoils (German: Akanthus-Dreipässe) chiseled in high relief, and scales (German: Schuppenfriese).
The acanthus motif is an important element based on the decoration of the capitals of Corinthian columns; Renaissance art renewed the Ancient Greek and Roman styles.

The rear section (German: Hinterstück) is typically square, its beveled edges of ploygonal shape; it comprises the short base (German: Bodenstück), which is most probably ten-sided or octagonal, and the rear sight cast integrally. Contrary to the usual deep vertical slot, on this barrel, the back sight is pierced horizontally with a small hole.
The location of the pan for the priming powder marks the beginning of the breech (German: Pulversack oder Pulverkammer). The originally riveted swiveling pan cover is now missing, showing the horizontal slot above the pan, cut for a "rainproof" fit. The crisp chisel marks, used for gouging out the round pan trough (German: Pfannentrog) around the touch hole, denote that this finely wrought barrel saw little use.
As is the case with most large cast-brass/bronze objects, the greenish patina shows some rusty dots in places; these are traces of iron fixings that had to be mounted to stabilize the model during the founding process.

The profusely punched and chiseled Late Gothic/Early Renaissance style of decoration starts at the base of this barrel, showing petulated trefoils (German: gestielter Dreipass) on both sides, and soon lozenge patterns (German: Rautenmuster) are added; cf. the author's thread on the so-called "Monk's Gun":
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19033&highlight=monk%27s

The rear section also bears the cast and chiseled coat-of-arms (German: Stammwappen), denoting that this piece of finest arts and crafts alike was made by order of, and for, a member of the von Schellenberg family. It is surmounted by the proudly chiseled monogram I.V.R., for Iohann Ulrich Ritter (knight), reflecting the singular position of its owner.
For decades, Reichsritter Ulrich von Schellenberg zu Kißlegg (1478–1549),Doctor beider Rechte, served both the Habsburg Emperors Maximilian I and Charles V. as an Eques auratus, a Feldhauptmann and Kriegsrat.
The Doctor of Both Laws (Doktor beider Rechte), Dr. iur. utr., meant considering both Civil Law and Canonical Law; Knight of the Golden Spur (H.R.E.) is the English equivalent of Eques auratus (German: Ritter vom güldenen Sporn). Furthermore, he was Captain and War Council.


Accentuated by three grained scales (German: Schuppenfriese mit gekörntem Grund), the rear section of the barrel changes to a long and edged center section (German: Mittelstück), including two subsections: a shorter two-stage octagonal length, changing to a longer ten-sided section. Typically, the center section shows the smallest outer diameter of the barrel. Its upper surface, originally not covered by the stock, is subdivided and quantized by filed moldings and acanthus leafs; additionally, flames cut in high relief dart blazing towards the muzzle. In the Gothic and Renaissance sense of style, a gun barrel represents the scary metal embodiment of a sea monster, a serpent, or a mythologic dragon breathing fire; thus, this winding ornament symbolizes the vivid movement of both a serpent and a flame. Moreover, in the superstitious contemporary minds, it was believed to have an apotropaic effect, fending off evil.

Another frieze of moldings marks the forward section of the barrel (German: Vorderstück), the muzzle area (Mündungskopf). It is notably longer than the one of the barrel in the author's collection, which is about two decades older, but retains the basic slightly swamped shape. As the latest Nuremberg stylistic element originating in the early 1520's*, its muzzle is rounded now, and the integral blade foresight has moved a bit to the rear, when compared to pre-1520's muzzle sections.

These stylistic features identified and defined by the author are fundamental for assigning a time line of origin to a gun barrel, and their result will prove to be significantly closer, and safer, than "first half 16th century".



Michael Trömner
Rebenstr. 9
D-93326 Abensberg
Lower Bavaria, Germany

Self-established Academic Medievalist

Graduated from Regensburg University in 1982
Stipendiary recipient and member of the Studienstiftung des deutschen Volkes, Bonn

Author of BEHÄLTNISSE FÜR KOSTBARES 1500-1700, 2005
M. of the Arms & Armour Society, London since 1991
M. of the Gesellschaft für Historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde e.V., Berlin since 1987

Expertises in European weapons, ironworks, and furniture of the 14th through 17th centuries
Preservation and academic documentation of museum collections

[Matchlock]

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[Matchlock]

..

[Matchlock]

..

[Matchlock]

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[Matchlock]

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[Matchlock]

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[Matchlock]

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[Matchlock]

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[Matchlock]

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[cornelistromp]

Here is a nice link to the Ulrich von Schellenberg hackbut.
press on play for the interesting slide show about the von Schellenberg hackbut gun.

http://slideplayer.us/slide/203796/

best,
jasper

[Matchlock]

Thanks a lot, Jasper,


I have known that video since 2006.
J.D. Julia also put a link on their site.
Sadly, the quality is too poor to judge the rank of the barrel, and the state of condition it was actually in.

The owner and I were in touch until December 2011 but he refused to take high-resolution images.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

As the following definition is basic for the subject of this thread, here is what I have often pointed out since 2008.




Re: BRASS or "BRONZE" barrels?


Material type: Copper alloy

This term should be used for any alloy which appears to include copper. It is only if you know for sure that the item is a particular alloy (e.g. bronze, brass, gun metal, speculum) that you can correctly identify, and term, the item in question.

Most of the time, though, you will be able to identify the alloy only from the appearance, weight and type of object (e.g. leaded bronze for Medieval and post-Medieval cooking vessels, or brass for Byzantine buckets, or bronze for Bronze Age objects, bell-metal for bells, speculum for Roman mirrors, etc etc) and so the identification will not be certain.


Therefore if you do certainly know the type of alloy because you have had a compositional analysis, then it is very important to say this.


Also, keep in mind that the historic and contemporary term for cast-copper alloy barrels was BRASS.




Michael Trömner

[estcrh]

Michael I hope you are able to work out a solution to this problem, I and many other people will be reading your various posts here for years to come trying to glean as much of the incredibly valuable information you have very generously shared with all of us here, I personally can not thank you enough, years of reading books on the subjects you have discussed here would not replace what you have written.

[Micke D]

Hello Michael!

Nice to see you back on the forum!

I have a question for you: Do you have any more info on the black steel bow crossbow in post #65? It looks like an auction crossbow.

And thank you for the Hermannstadt crossbow in post #68! Lovely printed design on the bow!

[Matchlock]

As you may have noticed I have been having quite some hard times, and they are not over yet .

I promise you and all the others that I will be back right soon, and as quickly as possible.
Just do let me and my computer take another time-out for about 10 days or so.


Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Michael, you have an email ... and now a PM

[cornelistromp]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
the doppelhaken of #6, recently sold at Thomas del mar, 3/12 lot 255
best,
Jasper

[cornelistromp]

some more

[cornelistromp]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 256 iron doppelhaken 1537.
small detail there was a big nail hammered inside the pan?!?
best,
Jasper

[cornelistromp]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 257, Iron doppelhaken, dated second half of the 16th century.
however due to its simple barrel shape and hook construction is probably earlier. around 1500?

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
the doppelhaken of #6, recently sold at Thomas del mar, 3/12 lot 255
best,
Jasper


Magnificent. The right example for anyone's wishing list :cool:

[cornelistromp]

yes, this was a unique opportunity for a unique weapon.
from 3 december onwards , I still regret that I did not bid a bit longer on one of the three.

[Matchlock]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 256 iron doppelhaken 1537.
small detail there was a big nail hammered inside the pan?!?
best,
Jasper Hi Jasper,


Thanks for posting these!


I will have more on them soon.


The nail to the rear end of the pan on the wall gun dated 1537 you are refrerring to actually is the head of a rivet, the pivot for the swiveling pan cover.

The stock of the brass barel dated 1525 was a bad modern reconstruction. The upper flat of all period stocks was on the same level as the top flat of the barrel; only the rear sight was above that level.
Cf. attachment #4 marked for comparison with the shape of the stock on the piece in the author's collection.
So all that really was actually valuable was the barrel.
The wall piece in the author's collection, which came from that same Hohenlohe-Langenburg provenance, still is the only one retaining both its original stock AND ramrod. In the catalog description attached below, Nicholas McCullough refers to "a Bavarian private collection", mentioning this thread as "Trömner 2009" for the numbering on the hook.


Best for tonight,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Atts. #9 and 10 depict the arsenal numbering on the piece in the author's collection.

[Matchlock]

The remaining details, and author's photos in the Hohenlohe Castle from 2000.

[Matchlock]

Another contemporary brass barreled Doppelhaken, Nuremberg, still in the Hohenlohe Collection, retaining its original though damaged oaken stock.
Please note that the upper line of the butt stock is exactly on the same level as the top flat of the barrel.
Author's photos.

[Matchlock]

The Nuremberg Doppelhaken dated 1537, when still in the long exhibition hall of Hohenlohe Castle.
Contrary to the the opinion uttered in Thomas Del Mar's catalog description, the author is convinced that the stock was the original.

The barrelsmith's mark struck three time in the Gothic tradition was identified and termed by the author as that of the Nuremberg worksphop of the "Meister mit den gekreuzten Pfeilen" (Master of the Crossed Arrows).
It belonged to an obviously very prolific workshop which is known to have concentrated on the manufacture of cranequins for crossbows from at least the 1520's.
In 40 years of research, the author has documemted 16 cranequins in museums, private collections, at dealers and auction houses, the earliest of them ca. 1520-25; the earliest dated cranequin struck with this mark, 1532, formerly was in the author's collection and is now in a Bavarian private collection, together with other cranequins from the same workshop, dated 1540 and 1545 respectively.

From ca. the mid-1530's, that workshop seems to also have manufactured wrought iron barrels.
The barrel of another, almost identical wall gun still preserved at Schloss Hohenlohe bears the same mark and identical date 1537 - please see atts. to follower post.


Author's photos.

[Matchlock]

Attached here is another detail of the muzzle section of the gun discussed in the previous post.


A matchlock barrel in the Landeszeughaus Graz, inv.no. RG 2 in Robert Brooker's Eine Radschloss-Sammlung - A Wheellock Collection, 2007, mounted on a later stock, and together with a ca. 1535-40 wheellock mechanism, is struck with that mark and the date 1537 (definitely misread as 1527 in Brooker) - see author's photos from 2005 attached.

Two important matchlock arquebuses, the barrels struck twice wit that crossed arrows mark and the date 1539, are in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg, inv.no. W 494, and in the author's collection respectively - see:
post #66 in this thread,
and
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7503&highlight=harquebus+1539
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7060&highlight=matchlock+harquebus+1539

For cranequins with that mark dated 1532, 1540 and 1545 respectively, see:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7457&highlight=cranequin+1532
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7457&highlight=cranequin+1532
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19033&highlight=cranequin+1532
and attachment to post #70 in this thread.


Attached are photos of another, almost identical wall gun still preserved in the Hohenlohe-Langenburg collection, the barrel struck with the same mark and the identical date 1537; most probably, the stock is the original although figured slightly diferent from that of the first piece.

Author's photos.

[Matchlock]

Three more close-ups of the muzzle section.

Author's photos.

[Matchlock]

The description and images from Tom Del Mar's catalog.

[Matchlock]

A close comparison of the pan and cover of the Doppelhaken dated 1537 sold at Tom del Mar shows that when the author photographed it, the cover was not yet bent - the way it was by the time of the sale.

First two photos attached copyrighted by the author, the others copyrighted by Thomas Del Mar Ltd.

[cornelistromp]

Hi Jasper,


Thanks for posting these!


I will have more on them soon.


The nail to the rear end of the pan on the wall gun dated 1537 you are refrerring to actually is the head of a rivet, the pivot for the swiveling pan cover.





Hi Michael,

thanks for your explanations and clarifications regarding this very interesting weapons
re: Nail in pan
I did not mean the pivot nail, There is also a similar nail hammered inside the pan you can see it on the picture. Do you maybe know its function?

VBW,
jasper

[Marcus den toom]

I would say this is a working life repair of the igniting pan ;)
After so many shots, the corrosive blackpoder charge would have eaten right trough the quit thinly made pan... and no good can come from a pan with a hole in it.

[Matchlock]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg ... recently sold at Thomas del mar
best,
Jasper
Hi Jasper,


There is no need to worry;) about the Princes' armory because many items are still there at the Schloss.

Actually, just like many other noble houses, monetary reasons have forced them to sell off weapons and other stuff from time to time. The difference is only that up to now, they consigned their goods with a local auction house in Bayreuth, and anonymously, since at least the 1960's; all the catalog description would say was "property from a noble house".

In their last sale, about 12 years ago, another of those wrought iron haquebut/wall gun barrels dated 1537 was sold. It did not retain its original stock, though, but was just crudely nailed to a large and heavy kind of beam by two iron rings and some huge nails; this may have been done out of sheer need, in the Thirty Years War or at some later time. That monstrous piece is on display in the museum of Rothenburg ob der Tauber in Franconia now.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 257, Iron doppelhaken, dated second half of the 16th century.
however due to its simple barrel shape and hook construction is probably earlier. around 1500?

best,
Jasper


Hi Jasper,


You are absolutely right, that barrel definitely was earlier than the catalog description reads, "second half 16th century".

Sadly, the experts did not note the obvious close relationship between this barrel to the the one dated 1537 - although the two of them lay side by side; still, the former got misdated.
Although not dated, and bearing a different mark, that barrrel shows exactly the same triple sectioning as the one dated, octagonal/round/round, with the very same dimensions, and is equipped with the same kind of pan. Also, the location of the rear sight, though shaped diffrently from that on the 1537 barrel, doubtlessly assigns the piece to the 1530's.
See two last attachments to post #70 and all atts. to post #71 in this thread for a contemporary barrel with the same type of square rear sight.

The only notable formal difference between this and the dated barrel being that the hook of the former is attached by a sturdy iron sleeve. Although this can normally only be observed as a later working time addition to early 15th c. barrels that originally did not have a hook, it was most probably characteristic to the (unidentified) workshop. Another, almost identical piece that still is in the Schloss is wrought exactly the same way, and it doubtlessly retains its original stock, so these hooks cannot be explained by some later working life alteration.
See atts. to follower post.

Due to the formal stylistic criteria set up by the author to enable a closer dating of barrels, this item, too, must have been wrought within a narrow span of time, which isca. 1530-40, and logically it should be correctly identified and dated "Nuremberg, late 1530's", because in 1539, the first Nuremberg barrels were sectioned only twice, with the separating girdle forward of the breech having disappeared:
cf. the barrels of two Nuremberg made Landsknecht's matchlock arquebuses, both struck with the "Crossed Arrows" mark and the date 1539.
Quote from post #94 in this thread:

Two important matchlock arquebuses, the barrels struck twice with that crossed arrows mark and the date 1539, are in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg, inv.no. W 494, and in the author's collection respectively - see:
post #66 in this thread,
and
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...=harquebus+1539 (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7503&highlight=harquebus+1539)
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...+harquebus+1539 (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7060&highlight=matchlock+harquebus+1539)


In all probability, a small series of those barrels at the Hohenlohe-Langenburg armory were bought from the City of Nuremberg, to which all local workshops had to deliver by contract a certain quantity of their products. The Nuremberg city archive records still hold all the details.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

In the exhibition hall, the author photographed three more similar wall pieces, all of them doubtlessly Nuremberg made; they still are in Schloss Hohenlohe-Langenburg:

- one with a cast brass barrel very similar to the sample dated 1525, and contemporary:
see atts. to post #90;

- and two more with wrought iron barrels:

the first almost identical to the one just sold (cf. posts 83f. and 93f.), the wrought iron barrrel also dated 1537 and bearing the same "Crossed Arrows" mark struck three times

- and another, the barrel not dated and almost the pair to lot #257 at Thomas Del Mar (cf. posts #84 and 99), retaining its original slightly carved stock but in worse condition, the butt stock heavily wormed, damaged and incomplete:
see atts. to this post.


There also remains a breech loading falconet (German: Bockbüchse) mounted on a two-wheel carriage;
please see my thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7364&highlight=breechloading



Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Hi Michael,

thanks for your explanations and clarifications regarding this very interesting weapons
re: Nail in pan
I did not mean the pivot nail, There is also a similar nail hammered inside the pan you can see it on the picture. Do you maybe know its function?

VBW,
jasper
Hi Jasper,


I'm sorry for not getting the point:shrug:,
and thanks for pointing me at a small detail I would otherwise have overlooked.;)

Marcus is absolutely right:
the pan was rusted through, and nailing was the easiest way to fill that hole, just like spiking a burnt-out touch hole.

Rust holes in pans can sometimes be oberserved on 500 year-old haquebut barrels which saw hard service for most of their long working life, especially during the Thirty Years War.
The reason being that those large wall guns were always kept right there in the same place - loaded and primed, and ready to be fired any moment. Thus the bottom of their pans kept rusting heavily from the priming powder they always held, and after centuries, they sometimes failed to hold it any more.

E.g., in the author's collection there is a heavy Late Gothic haquebut barrel that was wrought in ca. 1490 -1500, and restocked with a matchlock at the Regensburg City Arsenal during the 1640's, the most roaring latter years of the Thirty Years War; its pan, too, is rusted through - from holding the priming powder most if the time, and with no oiling done for centuries.
Its beechwood butt stock is branded with the Regensburg City arms, two crossed keys, and the letters ZG for Zeughaus (arsenal).
Photos of that 16 kg monster attached - Marcus, you doubtlessly remember handling it!;):cool:
I also took images of the hole in the pan but my computer refuses to receive them from the camera ...


Best as ever to both of you,
Michael/Michl

[cornelistromp]

hi Michael,

thanks for the explanation and it is a beautiful and rare heavy "matchlock haquebut" or "haquebut musket" ? :confused:

vbw,
jasper

[Matchlock]

hi Michael,

thanks for the explanation and it is a beautiful and rare heavy "matchlock haquebut" or "haquebut musket" ? :confused:

vbw,
jasperWell, Jasper,
Who am I to tell, to discern?!:D;):eek:
Actually, as its weight of 16 kg is definitely too heavy to aim the piece the usual way, and considering that its barrel was a haquebut barrel about 150 before it got updated with the present stock and lock, I feel safe enough to call it a haquebut, or a wall gun.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

For a detailed discussion of that 16 kilogram monster of a matchlock wall gun/haquebut from the former Regensburg City Arsenal, now in The Michael Trömner Collection, please see author's thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10481

Unfortunately, none of all those photos depicts the rust hole in the priming pan; I will get one, though - I promise!;)

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

For a detailed discussion of that 16 kilogram monster of a matchlock wall gun/haquebut from the former Regensburg City Arsenal, now in The Michael Trömner Collection, please see author's thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10481

Unfortunately, none of all those photos depicts the rust hole in the priming pan; I will get one, though - I promise!;)

Best,
Michael

Finally, here are the images of the pan perforated by rust, due to holding the priming powder for hundreds of years.

For more details on this wall gun, see:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=179338


m

[Marcus den toom]

Three pictures, two of a fragmented wall piece, brass from Lichtenberg.