Beautiful Indian handles

[ariel]

All these are also from the Leeds Armoury. The variety of materials, the craftsmanship and the imagination are awesome.

[BluErf]

Hey!!! That last picture of the wavy bladed kattar is interesting! If the handle is covered, it looks just like a keris!

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Ariel,

You are right; they made some striking hilts in India. The first one looks however a bit strange, was it brought together?

The ‘nail’ hilt has been discussed earlier – someone had bought a tulwar with a hilt like this. The other knifes have interesting hilts, but being a katar man myself I like the katar very much. Like BluErf writes, it could very well be a keris blade, pity we cant see the side of the side guards – it might very well be south Indian. Is it?

Thanks for showing.

Jens

[Rick]

Hey!!! That last picture of the wavy bladed kattar is interesting! If the handle is covered, it looks just like a keris!

It could be a Bali keris blade Blu .
The one in this post (Katar#1) is made from the point of an Afghan sabre .
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001461.html

[Andrew]

When I read the title to this thread, I immediately thought of clear rock-crystal khandjar handles. :)

Is that a lapis handle in the last pic?

[BluErf]

Thanks for the link Rick.

That's very interesting though, like the concept of the firanggi. The keris blade looked good in its 'reincarnation' as a kattar.

Another thought -- given that the Indians had generally better metal technology than Southeast Asians, why did they modify the keris into a kattar? European blades may be adopted because of good steel/forging techniques, but most kerises doesn't quite strike me as comparable in terms of strength. Or could this be a case of aesthetics/style over functionality?

[BluErf]

Oh, and I forgot to *drooool* at Rick's Afghani sabre... :)

[B.I]

not very clear, but almost shows the side bars. from memory, they are relatively plain with a slightly bumped rim, as you can sort of make out from the images. it definately seems southern in design, and i would assume its hails from the south, especially if you veer towards the 'langet' theory, which is plausable.

[ariel]

Why do you think the blade on this katar comes from re-used kris?
The idea of wavy blade is not peculiar to Indonesia: Stone has a similar kris ( p.347, Fig 424, #19). What about European Flamberges? Also re-worked Krises?

[Rick]

Ariel , if you look closely at the base of the blade you can see the " fullers "
(for want of a better word) that end next to the langet on either side . These are evident on the Bali keris illustrated below . Not the central deep sogokan and pecetan but the wide shallow ones that are along the edge . I would also suggest that if this blade was made expressly for a katar the mounting 'langets' would be more in line with the center line of the blade itself .

[Rick]

If you look closely at the close up that I've manipulated a bit you can see where the narrow part of the mounting at the base of the fleur dy lis shows a shadow on either side . These are the mostly covered channels of the sogokan and pecetan with the janur being covered by the mount .

I feel pretty certain that this is probably an old Bali blade , Bali being the longest holdout of Hinduism against the spread of Islam .

I can definitely understand the S.India-Bali connection .

[Justin]

Didnt the Balinese import rubys.sapphires,and other gems from India and Sri Lanka?

[spiral]

Outstading! love the ivory chinth on the dia chirri kukri, about the best ive seen.

Thanks for sharing!

Spiral

[Battara]

Yes they did Justin. Each has a spiritual/religious significance.