View Full Version : Beautiful Indian handles
ariel
28th May 2005, 03:59 PM
All these are also from the Leeds Armoury. The variety of materials, the craftsmanship and the imagination are awesome.
BluErf
28th May 2005, 04:11 PM
Hey!!! That last picture of the wavy bladed kattar is interesting! If the handle is covered, it looks just like a keris!
Jens Nordlunde
28th May 2005, 09:57 PM
Hi Ariel,
You are right; they made some striking hilts in India. The first one looks however a bit strange, was it brought together?
The ‘nail’ hilt has been discussed earlier – someone had bought a tulwar with a hilt like this. The other knifes have interesting hilts, but being a katar man myself I like the katar very much. Like BluErf writes, it could very well be a keris blade, pity we cant see the side of the side guards – it might very well be south Indian. Is it?
Thanks for showing.
Jens
Rick
29th May 2005, 12:35 AM
Hey!!! That last picture of the wavy bladed kattar is interesting! If the handle is covered, it looks just like a keris!
It could be a Bali keris blade Blu .
The one in this post (Katar#1) is made from the point of an Afghan sabre .
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001461.html
Andrew
29th May 2005, 06:01 AM
When I read the title to this thread, I immediately thought of clear rock-crystal khandjar handles. :)
Is that a lapis handle in the last pic?
BluErf
29th May 2005, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the link Rick.
That's very interesting though, like the concept of the firanggi. The keris blade looked good in its 'reincarnation' as a kattar.
Another thought -- given that the Indians had generally better metal technology than Southeast Asians, why did they modify the keris into a kattar? European blades may be adopted because of good steel/forging techniques, but most kerises doesn't quite strike me as comparable in terms of strength. Or could this be a case of aesthetics/style over functionality?
BluErf
29th May 2005, 10:45 AM
Oh, and I forgot to *drooool* at Rick's Afghani sabre... :)
B.I
29th May 2005, 01:37 PM
not very clear, but almost shows the side bars. from memory, they are relatively plain with a slightly bumped rim, as you can sort of make out from the images. it definately seems southern in design, and i would assume its hails from the south, especially if you veer towards the 'langet' theory, which is plausable.
ariel
29th May 2005, 03:12 PM
Why do you think the blade on this katar comes from re-used kris?
The idea of wavy blade is not peculiar to Indonesia: Stone has a similar kris ( p.347, Fig 424, #19). What about European Flamberges? Also re-worked Krises?
Rick
29th May 2005, 03:43 PM
Ariel , if you look closely at the base of the blade you can see the " fullers "
(for want of a better word) that end next to the langet on either side . These are evident on the Bali keris illustrated below . Not the central deep sogokan and pecetan but the wide shallow ones that are along the edge . I would also suggest that if this blade was made expressly for a katar the mounting 'langets' would be more in line with the center line of the blade itself .
Rick
29th May 2005, 07:19 PM
If you look closely at the close up that I've manipulated a bit you can see where the narrow part of the mounting at the base of the fleur dy lis shows a shadow on either side . These are the mostly covered channels of the sogokan and pecetan with the janur being covered by the mount .
I feel pretty certain that this is probably an old Bali blade , Bali being the longest holdout of Hinduism against the spread of Islam .
I can definitely understand the S.India-Bali connection .
Justin
30th May 2005, 02:38 PM
Didnt the Balinese import rubys.sapphires,and other gems from India and Sri Lanka?
spiral
31st May 2005, 10:50 PM
Outstading! love the ivory chinth on the dia chirri kukri, about the best ive seen.
Thanks for sharing!
Spiral
Battara
1st June 2005, 01:33 AM
Yes they did Justin. Each has a spiritual/religious significance.
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