Real or copy? Judge / Rule Sword

[celtan]

What do you think, real McCoy or victorian copy?

Manuel Luis

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/CIMG0222ex.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/espadas001.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/espadas004.jpg

[kisak]

Odd looking pommel. Can't see anything I recognise as a "bad sign" with the blade, but then I have only seen a rare few executioner's swords (as I guess this is). Victorian rehilt perhaps?

[katana]

Hi Manuel,
kisek's idea of a rehilt may be right. The patination seems lacking near to the hilt ...perhaps cleaned (because of rust) whilst the blade was removed ???

Regards David

[Jim McDougall]

I agree with David and Kisak in that this sword with inscription seems to be 19th century refabrication of what may have been a trade blade. The bulb like pommel is unusual, the ferrules seem to correspond to late 18th to earlier 19th century forms (I've been under the impression these were usually wire wrapped with turks heads).I cant tell what the grip's composition is.

The inscription seems copied from extant known early examples, and looks added later, very artistic :)

Is this supposed to be an executioners sword? I cant see the blade tip.

[celtan]

Hi Guys,

This is the most interesting part of sword-collecting, the sleuthing, the consults, the brain gears moving...

: )

Yep, it's has the characteristic executioners/judge/sword-of-state's square tip.

So, Jim. You don't think the blade is legit?

Merry XMas!

Manolo

[celtan]

OTOS: JOHAN KNEGT


http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/081216007.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/081216003.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/081216005.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/081216006cup.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Blade%20Bucket/081216004.jpg

[Jim McDougall]

The rebated blade does appear to be one of the executioner type blades, and probably of age, but the inscription seems entirely spurious and not corresponding to period inscriptions that I am familiar with. It does seem to be an ambitious interpretation, but it seems that in the unusual instances where Solingen is noted ,the standard 'me fecit' prefix is present. When the term 'in' is seen it is usually spelled 'IHN' or even 'EN'.
It also seems that if the 18th century Iohann Peter Knecht actually was associated with this blade (the Knechts actually were dealers in blades rather than makers, 'Wallace Collection cat.' p.268) he would have spelled it correctly. There is always the question of literacy put forth in these kinds of situations, but by the 18th century this was typically not the case, especially with merchants.

I think what is most curious is why, with what appears to be an authentic, though remounted blade, would someone apply such a poorly done inscription.

All best regards,
Jim

[katana]

A true executioner's sword would tend to have two characteristics....usually the hilt would be two handed (for better control) and the blade 'tip heavy' to give the blade more momentum in a down ward stroke. You could also argue that the crossguard would be an unecessary addition.

I firmly believe that the blade has been re-mounted, the additional picture you have posted shows the cleaned area more clearly.(perhaps , also reworked to fit the crossguard ) Could this be another Victorian marriage :shrug: , but this does not necessarily mean that both blade and hilt are not pre-victorian though.

Regards David