Albanian judicical- execution kilij?

[eftihis]

Hallo i have seen this on a past auction under the above description, but with no other details or better photo.
It seems original, but have never seen something similar!
Any comments?

[ariel]

Very strange thingie..
I would not call it kilij, though. Rater, if anything, it looks like an Ottoman Sossun Pattah.
I would also want better documentation of its " execution" role. First, the scabbard is very utilitarian and " field-like"; second, execution swords everywhere tended to allow for a two-handed grip.
But, all doubts aside, a very impressive baby! I would not want to find myself on its receiving end.

[Battara]

I wouldn't call this a soussan pata either......

BTW - would not an Ottoman soussan pata be called a yataghan?

[Jim McDougall]

Maybe its a Black Sea sosun pattah ?!!

:)

[Gavin Nugent]

It did sell recently for $7500 dollars plus premiums, in fact the same collection that my Kindjals came from and others I have, from talking to the owner there are a good many more stories to be told about his aquistions. The collection was considered the greatest and most comprehensive antique arms collection on the eastern sea board of Australia. Food for thought.

enjoy

Gav

[Yannis]

It is a unique kilij - yataghan combination, but I cannot see why it is called "Albanian" or execution sword. A normal heavy kilij would be better for the last.

[ariel]

I wouldn't call this a soussan pata either......

BTW - would not an Ottoman soussan pata be called a yataghan?
Well, I should have added a :)
But, seriously, there are several varieties of Sossun Pattas: the Mughal one is, indeed, just a Yataghan with a "tulwar" handle.
But the Indian ones had recurved, widening blades not dissimilar from the one shown here.
You can see what I mean here
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2052
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=659
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awrose/2250985675/

[Bill M]

Indian

[Gavin Nugent]

ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I like that.

Gav

[eftihis]

Hi, i found something very relevant to the previous one! But this looks even more like a beheading sword.
Any translation of the arabic text?

[Gavin Nugent]

Good people,

I have bought this forward in the hope that this tanslation question from some time ago doesn't go unanswered. I think with the wonderful help available by the very nice people who do translate, something may be learned of this very interesting sword, even if it is just a phrase or two.

Gav

[Zifir]

Hi,
The first inscription is easy: La feta illa Ali la seyfe illa Zulfikar (There is no hero like Ali, there is no sword like Zulfikar)

I will look at the second inscription when I go back home next week, presently I have to use a 10" screen notebook which becomes quite annoying when it comes to deciphering arabic inscriptions. :(

[Kurt]

Hi ,

I'm sure this sword comes from Algeria.
See:
Splendeur thes arms Orientales.
Figure 62
Kurt

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Gents for bringing some more life to these old warriors.
I find them most interesting.

Gav

[ArmsAndAntiques]

And to resurrect an old thread, I'd like to point our attention to the recent Bob Hales publication, pg. 218, #538, where I believe this exact sword may have originated some years ago. Described by Mr. Hales as:

"An exceptionally rare Ottoman judicial sword, it has a watered blade, recurved and massively swollen towards the tip. It has a typically Algerian hilt made without a crosspiece and fitted with two-piece horn grips and a small silver shell device. See no. 537. It retains its leather scabbard fitted with engraved silver mounts; most of the back edge of the scabbard has a hinged silver cover to admit the extraordinary shaped blade. 18th or early 19th C."

[Gavin Nugent]

Mr Morgan did travel a lot with his wife and likely bought the sword from Bob Hales shop on one of his many trips abroad as he did discuss several other purchases he made abroad that were also sold when his collection was auctioned.

Perhaps Bob recalls Mr Morgan's visit?

Gavin