Kindjal for coments

[fernando]

A triple fullered 18" (45 cms. ) blade.
Handle looks horn ... at least by night :confused:
Wooden scabbard covered by "white brass" on the front and tin on the back.
Kindjal labeled by seller as 18th century and scabbard 19th century.
Anyone familiar with these blade marks ?
Is it easy to tell the origin of this piece ? and the possible veracity of its age ?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Fernando

[ariel]

The scabbard ornaments look Balkan to me. The blade... Daghestani trade blade.
Overall, hard to call it Caucasian :shrug:

[fernando]

Thank you Ariel.
18th century for the blade, makes any sense ?

[ariel]

Unlikely. There are less than 20 known Kindjal blades in existence dated 18th century ( I have one) . None from the 17th. Check Miller's book "Kaukasiske Wappen".

[fernando]

Thank you once more. I will register the data on this piece, concerning blade and scabbard, as per your input. I will consider its age as being XIX century.
Funny thing i can't spot that book in the Net :confused: .
Kind regards
Fernando

[TVV]

I think Oriental Arms may have a copy of the book.
As for the kindjal, I wish I could help more, but all I can do is agree with Ariel that the Scabbard and hilt look like late 19th century Balkan work.

[fernando]

Book found at Oriental Arms.
Thanks a lot.
Fernando

[fernando]

I was scrolling the PDF pages of this book about Caucasian Weapons by E. Astvacaturyan, that a member ( i don't remember whom) has provided us long time ago by email and, in page 145, there is a sketch with what i think to be several makers marks seen on 19th century kindjals. To my unexperienced eyes one of these marks seems to be the same as part of the symbols in the example i have posted in this thread. I am a zero in Russian, but this part of the book appears to be the Daghestan section ... precisely the area mentioned by Ariel as being the provenance of the discussed piece.
Could those members with more knowledge in this subject give a coment on this similarity ?
Ariel, could you help ?
Thanks
Fernando

[ward]

Nice old blade and scabbard on this one. A lot different than the tourist items listed recently. My only question/concern would be the handle. Normally you would see the rivets on the reverse side of the handle possibly the grips are recently replaced or maybe I just can not see them in pic

[fernando]

Thank you Ward,
Now that you mention, i have rechecked the handle and its assembly. The grip is made of one only piece ... of horn, i still think.
The tang, at the grip entrance, looks to be the plate type and not of spike form. The fixation points are not what you can call rivets, but nails with a round shell head, like those in the large luxury leather covered chairs, if you know what i mean. They don't go through to the other side, indeed. But they sure are very old, so much worn that the shells are risking to fall off the nails. Whether this grip was not the original, it sure is from the period or close to it.
What do you think about the mark in the book and that in the blade of this piece ? Could it be the same ?
Fernando

[Gonzalo G]

Fernando, I see a relation among this mark and yours. The figure on the books is referred to typical marking on kindjals from the first half of the 19th Century.
Regards

Gonzalo

[fernando]

Much obliged for your help, Gonzalo.
Eventually i had that legend translated by a Russian ( Siberian) acquaintance ... which coincides with your interpretation :cool: .
I just thaught the kinzhal conoisseurs would favour me with some considerations on the mark analogy or similarity :shrug: .
Thanks all the same.
Fernando

[Gonzalo G]

On the contrary, Fernando, I feel muito obrigado with you, as you are sharing this interesting piece with a description, which is a source of a new learning....and this is all about, isn´t it? I think I will not show my poor 20th Century kindjal, as it is a piece of small value and it will not dreserve a word. Excuse me Fernando, do you have the width and thickness of the blade at it´s beginning, and the weight of the kindjal without sabbard? I can get the other measures by the use of proportions. Thank you.
Regards

Gonzalo

[fernando]

Hi Gonzalo, there you are:

Width: 39 m/m.
Thickness: over 4 m/m.
Weight: 330 grams.

I assume you use the metric system in Mexico :cool:

Saludos

Fernando

[Gonzalo G]

!Thank you, Fernando, very useful information! Yes, we also use the metric system in the whole Latin America...and part of Canada, I belive.

My best regards

Gonzalo

[David]

!Thank you, Fernando, very useful information! Yes, we also use the metric system in the whole Latin America...and part of Canada, I belive.

My best regards

Gonzalo
Yep, it's just us stubborn Americans that insist on inches. :o :)

[Jeff D]

!Thank you, Fernando, very useful information! Yes, we also use the metric system in the whole Latin America...and part of Canada, I belive.

My best regards

Gonzalo

Actually, all of Canada :)

Jeff