Sumatran Dagger: Lopah Petawaran

[CharlesS]

Sumatran Dagger: Lopah Petawaran...Forefather of the Rentcong???


I had been looking for one of these for years, and finally with the help of some forumite friends I was able to acquire one.

This is a Sumatran dagger known as a lopah petawaran(See Zonneveld, Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, pg. 83) and is supposedly the predecessor to the much more famous rentcong.

This one is 14.5in. overall, with a 9in. thick heavy blade. The hilt may be rhino, and is tipped with a silvered cap.

I know several other forumites are fond of these types, and hope they will put pics of their examples on as well. There are many different versions, via embellishments, of these. Hopefully this will become a good research thread for this form of dagger.

[VVV]

Congratulations Charles!

I know you have been looking for a perfect Lopah for a long time.
I am not that picky myself so here are some other variations for discussion. ;)
Picture 2 below show the two main variations of hilts.
There are different opinions on if this knife originated among the Gayo tribe or the Karo Batak (where it is used by the guru/healer priest for purification/exorcistic ceremonies).

Michael

[CharlesS]

Some amazing examples VVV. Some of these certainly look more ceremonial than combat worthy.

Thanks for posting

[Maurice]

I know several other forumites are fond of these types, and hope they will put pics of their examples on as well.
Hi Charles and Michael,

I'm also fond of this type but I do not own one (unfortunately).
As a matter of fact I know someone who is selling an old lopah petawaran.
As it is against the rules of this forum to picture this lopah, I can sent you the link where it's on by email when you are interested.

Regards,
Maurice

[kai]

Congrats, Charles!

I'm hoping for even more examples to be posted! ;)

Regards,
Kai

[Battara]

Here here! These are lovely puppies (woof! :D ).

Javagolok, I don't have any either. May be one day when I grow up.......... :shrug:

[Maurice]

Javagolok, I don't have any either. May be one day when I grow up.......... :shrug:
Battara,

I think most of us will only SHRUNK in future instead of GROW. :)

[Maurice]

Bringing up this old thread of Charless, I just read some additional information about this weapon in the book: Alte Kulturen auf Sumatra-Java-Borneo!

It seems that it is also called "rentsung" (which name is not mentioned in the book of Zonneveld), not to confuse with the traditional rencong from Aceh.
Among other things, one thing is that the first haircut of a child was done by this knife.

[paolo]

At last, also I have a Lopah patawaran :) . Very expensive, however I was searching for one by many time. I send some pics to share it.
The blade (the tip is a little worn) and the ferrule are of good pamor. Someone may see, as I think, a squatted man on the ferrule ? (pic 4 )
The ornamental silver work on the sheat is for me quite strange. Might You explain to me its meaning ?
Paolo

[Dajak]

These knife s are for ceremonial use .


Ben

[Rick]

At last, also I have a Lopah patawaran :) . Very expensive, however I was searching for one by many time. I send some pics to share it.
The blade (the tip is a little worn) and the ferrule are of good pamor. Someone may see, as I think, a squatted man on the ferrule ? (pic 4 )
The ornamental silver work on the sheat is for me quite strange. Might You explain to me its meaning ?
Paolo

This ?? (copy and paste) :shrug:
See society .

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Batak-(Indonesia)

[paolo]

Rick,
the first time I look at the sheat I thought to a cross, but knowing nothing about the Christian missions in Sumatra, I belive the ornamental work might have another meaning. If your assumption is right, my dagger should be end of 19th century.
Thank you for your help.
Paolo

[Rick]

No assumptions made Paolo . :)
Just a thought . :shrug: :)

[Royston]

Here is another one. I always wondered what it was.

Overall length 38 cm
Blade 25 cm
Hilt horn with a silver cap and what I believe is suassa near the blade.
Scabbard is silver over wood.

Regards
Royston

[DaveF]

I had originally posted these pictures under the heading "what is it?". Sajen and kai referred me here and identified it as Batak, probably an Every Day Carry relative of the Lopah pataweran, so I'm putting the images up here in the hope that they will be more useful to any future researcher on this thread rather than on the one I started. The handle is horn and the scabbard is wood with copper/brass bands.

[Sajen]

Like Charles I had been looking for one of these for years, finally I've found this one by a german auction house listed together with a keris.
After I've given it some TLC it's a fairly nice example, the scabbard toe is missing and there are some other faults but I can live with it.
375 mm inside scabbard, 298 mm without, blade 6 mm thick near the handle, 243 gram.

[Athanase]

Very nice! :cool:

[CharlesS]

Very nice Detlef! I like these elegant little knives.

[Sajen]

Thank you Severin and Charles. :) It coming together with a keris from Kelantan, the previous owner seems to has a somewhat different understanding of the orientation of the scabbard mouth. :eek:

[Athanase]

LOL

The selut position is also fun. :eek: :D

[Sajen]

The selut position is also fun.

Yes, fortunately was used a glue which was easily removable. :D

[Sajen]

A new addition to the collection, an example with a blade missing the integral bolster. Sadly the blade is in a sad condition.

[Sajen]

Here together with the other one.

[Interested Party]

Did this serve the purpose of a fancy utility knife? I.e. chores/chopper/self defense?

[Sajen]

Did this serve the purpose of a fancy utility knife? I.e. chores/chopper/self defense?

These are for ceremonial use, see also post #2 & #8.

[Interested Party]

These are for ceremonial use, see also post #2 & #8.

Thank you Sanjen. :) I was asking for clarification. I have noticed that many opinions on the forum have evolved in the last 13 years

[Battara]

Detlef, I love your new lopah! :)

[kai]

Congrats, Detlef!

You got the typical LP with bolster as well as now the variant type without!

These blades tend to be a bit rough; this may be partly due to their ceremonial use and sometimes due to their age...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

P.S.: Any indication whether the metal extension/tang out of the pommel possibly got bent later rather than originally?

[Sajen]

Thank you Jose and Kai.

The extension seems bent originally. And it had once two more chains, this seems to suggest a second hole in the silver end cap. See one picture from the seller.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

These blades tend to be a bit rough; this may be partly due to their ceremonial use and sometimes due to their age.....

Hello Kai,

I think as well that some in this thread showed examples have a very good age, one reason that nearly all show a lot of wear with missing parts.
But we don't know exactly all the ceremonial fields of application which can harm the blade!? Or do you know more?

Regards,
Detlef

[Battara]

I am aware that one use is to place it through the ear of carabao, so blood could be a factor. Another use is to bless newly wed couples with the blade scooping up some wet rice and throwing it on them, rice water possibly being another factor.

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

I think as well that some in this thread showed examples have a very good age, one reason that nearly all show a lot of wear with missing parts.
But we don't know exactly all the ceremonial fields of application which can harm the blade!?
Well, drawing blood and splashing about other aqueous fluids does not really help preservation of carbon steel. I'd suppose that these blades got cleaned after use and were generally well-maintained though - so, this might not be the main factor.

I believe that LPs got kept (in active use) for much longer periods than typical everyday user blades/tools (since the former were probably not expected to be used with overt force) and, moreover, these ceremonial blades might also have been kept after their long active duty period while working blades got worn down much faster and leftovers recycled for bladesmithing once not fit for their purpose anymore...

A few LP blades (some of the simpler ones without bolster) may also exhibit some forging imperfections or lesser original finish from manufacturing on a budget, I guess...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Thank you both for clarification! :)