Keeping a keris for protection

[Pusaka]

In Indonesia a household may keep a keris to protect the family. It is said that a keris can warn its owner of danger. The keris is said to rattle, move or make noise.

I guess my question then is do you believe this and have you had any experiences of such things?

[David]

I really doubt that this would be a major reason why a household would keep a keris. There are so many other well know reasons. There have indeed been stories of particular keris (or perhaps just a particular keris) which had the ability to warn it's owner of danger by rattling in it's sheath. I can't remember the name of that keris off-hand. Perhaps someone else will. Whether or not i believe this seems unimportant to the larger question. The purpose of keris is not to act as a home alarm system. :)

[pakana]

Hello to all,

Indeed there are many stories associated with keris that warned their owners for dangers not only in Indonesia. I dont think that the keris owners in the past, kept their keris just for their artistic value.They believed that there is something more "inside", and that was their main purpose from the beginning of "ordering" a keris from the mpu.

We, as westerners,have an artistic aproach to the subject(plus, we have the financial ability to collect more than one in our collections).I guess in the past, the Indonesian families couldn't afford to have more than one keris(except kings,royal family..)

Now,about stories, I have a story of a friend of mine, that a thief tried to steal his motorcycle, and he claims that his keris ruttled in its sheath at that time, to warn him.Fortunately for me, he sold the keris to me :)


george

[PenangsangII]

I keep more than a keris at home....and believe you me, though I come from this very same keris culture, I would still regards the keris first & foremost a weapon. If by making keris as a weapon means personal home protection, then I completely agree. In the confined space of my apartment, keris is just perfect ;)

[David]

Well, i think both of you are missing my point. When i said that there are so many other reasons for keeping a keris in a household in Indonesian cultures artistic appreciation (as seen by Western collectors) was the furthest from my mind. And Pakana, i am not sure you are correct in your assumption that families could only afford one household keris. The keris is a personal weapon and every male of a certain age would have had at least one. Many of them would not have been made by an mpu though. More likely a village pandai.
And yes Penangsang, a keris is certainly a very good close quarters weapon. However, the question at hand i believe is whether they were kept in households because of the belief that the could warn of danger by rattling in their sheaths. Again, i don't dismiss this completely a possiblity in limited cases with "special" keris, but i don't believe this is or was the norm and certainly not the "reason" for owning a keris.

[Lew]

Well here is my view . Indonesia is in a very active earthquake area so it could be possible that a keris could start rattling in it's scabbard just prior to the quake warning the owner and his family. Of course this is just my personal theory. I have always thought that the keris was more for spiritual protection of the household rather than the physical?

Lew

[PenangsangII]

Well here is my view . Indonesia is in a very active earthquake area so it could be possible that a keris could start rattling in it's scabbard just prior to the quake warning the owner and his family. Of course this is just my personal theory. I have always thought that the keris was more for spiritual protection of the household rather than the physical?

Lew

Actually, the rattler keris stories had been heard so many times and yet I have not personally been privileged to experience even once so far :rolleyes:

However, since I am living in within the same Malay culture, that still believes in supernatural things, black magic and so on, I once used my Rojo Gundolo keris to exorcise a haunted house, and it worked. The keris is now kept in my apt just in case some wondering spirits got lost into my place, or some one purposely sends his genie to disturb my family ;)

[pakana]

So, do you think that a specific kind of pamor is suitable for warning danger? Any thoughts?

george

[semar]

hello i think you can see about the pamor of the keris is made for protection
as an example Tambal Wengkon them say that this pamor protect the owners
and his familie but i believe when the isi is not strong enough nothing wil happen

sorry for my bad engels

[pakana]

Hi semar,

Yes it seems that wengkon pamor is suitable for protection,in the first place. But as you pointed out, if the spirit is not so strong, then it's no use.And it takes a lot of time and "affection" to the keris, in order to built up the power. :)

[semar]

hello pakana what you say is correct the most of the old keris you can buy a slumbering and if you whant that the keris get stronger you hef tp sacrifice and hef patience but its possible but not always sometimes the isi up to that point he can not come back

regarts semar

[PenangsangII]

hello i think you can see about the pamor of the keris is made for protection
as an example Tambal Wengkon them say that this pamor protect the owners
and his familie but i believe when the isi is not strong enough nothing wil happen

sorry for my bad engels

Yes, I agree that tambal wengkon may not be strong enough sometimes, I have one teja kinurung and still could not be used to exorcise a haunted house. Instead, Iike I said earlier in my post, rojo gundolo would stand a better chance. In the end, the owner is still the determining factor ;)

[pakana]

"sometimes the isi up to that point he can not come back "

What do you mean with that semar?You mean that there is also a possibility for the spirit to "leave" the keris for some reason?Because someone told me also that this could happen sometimes :(

george

[semar]

hello George i mean that the isi or spirit how you call it sometimes the strength so far gone is that now offering ore pray can help to get it back
because the keris have for years no offerings or other things to keep its power and i will go away in the long term and you have a kris with now power
you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

[pakana]

Hello semar,

So you think that a jin and isi are completely different?Please elaborate in that difference.Thanks.

george

[David]

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

[Pusaka]

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

[PenangsangII]

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... ;) And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Generally speaking, when an empu forges a keris, he would perform certain ritual such as mutih fasting, patigeni, meditation etc, and recites special prayers to imbue special power into the keris, called the "isi". In my limited knowledge, the actions undertaken by the empu is actually calling unseen being (normally Djinn) to reside in the keris, and would help the keris owner depending on the reason why the keris was ordered by the owner in the first place, i.e. commerce, protection, war etc etc. Depending on the "ilmu" of the empu. and later on the owner, the power of the "isi" or Djinn may vary from one keris to another....

Just my 0.02 cents.

[PenangsangII]

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

Dear Pusaka,

I believe if you have an old keris and do not know the history of the keris, its not advisable to keep the keris at home. You will never know "who" is residing in the keris, I mean, the "isi".

In order to solve this problem, you will have to find a wiseman or a person very knowledgable in keris philosophy, and get him to communicate to the empu and the isi. How the keris should be treated, how its to be cleaned, how its supposed to be dressed, what kind of assistance can the isi give and everything there is to know. Only then you will be able to decide whether an old keris should be in your collection or otherwise


;)

[pakana]

Dear Penangsang,

You are right.But in order for the keris to "reveal" itself to a wiseman or magus, it has to be strong enough, just like semar said. Otherwise it is impossible for it to accomplice that task.

And I was told that the "resident" inside is not something invited "in" to stay, but the sum of the thoughts,intention, and (part) of spirit of the maker.So when you "communicate" with a keris, actually you communicate with the spirit of the long dead empu..freaky!! :eek:

george

[PenangsangII]

For an old neglected keris, yes, the uninvited guest may reside in, but for a spiritually well maintained keris, the isi, prayers and the spirit of the empu can be called upon (menayuh / pal).

Being able to communicate with the original empu is not supposed to be freaky but a memorable learning experience. You will be closer to the keris than ever before, and the isi or djinn or whoever the resident of the keris will be happy to help you out since you can now treat your keris as previously carried out by the original empu and owner.

[David]

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... ;) And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.
Well Penangsang, i didn't actually "discount" anything. What i wrote was that they "don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to".
This is not to say that a Djinn could not get into a keris either, but i am not convinced that this particular type of spirit is the same that empus once embued into keris.
It should also be kept in mind that very,very few of the keris (if any) in most of our merger collections (yes, some of you lucky devils are exceptions) were actually made by empus. Most of even the good ones were probably made by highly skilled village smiths. Whether these were given the same type of spiritual attention as an empu made piece is highly debateable, but this doesn't mean that these keris do not hold energy from other sources such as the continued practice of holding and honoring the keris by it's owners passed down over generations. :)

[Pusaka]

I know some of you guys have loads of keris, hundreds! If you believe this then your house must have several spirits either helping or trying to kill you :D

You dont necessarily need an adept to tell you if a keris is good or not, some people put the keris under their pillow when they first get it. If their dreams are bad they simply get the keris out of their house.

Any of you ever own a keris you thought was bad?

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?

[Pusaka]

you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

I think there is a forth which is a current which flows through the blade. Like the mantra it wont last for long if its not renewed.

Is pamor type really a system of signposting the type of isi within the keris?

[David]

I'm not sure I understand what an isi is, can someone give me the English equivalent? Is it a created intelligence made with the empu's sakti through the help of a mantra etc or is it a natural spirit invited to have a connection with the keris?
I believe that the literal translation is "fill up", but of course, as with all things keris, once you apply it to this sphere of thinking that definition is not quite as telling as one might like. ;) :)
Personally i have never met a keris that i have thought has "bad" energy or spirits. I would say that this is because of my close-minded Western way of looking at the universe, however, i happen to be a true believer in the unseen worlds and do not hold the general Western concept that all this is merely superstition and nonsense. But i have over 40 keris in my house and i have never had any trouble with any of them. Some i am sure i can sense energy in, some i have personally put energy into, while others seem more quite. All of them are appreciated though, treated with respect and oiled and incensed regularly. Maybe that is what keeps them on there best behavior. ;) :D

[Pusaka]

David,

Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him :)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

[pakana]

David,

Your right there are many things you could fill up a keris with, oil, sent,spirits, wishes etc

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him :)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8


Oh yes, he is true :)

[David]

If any of you have watched the dvd "the ring of fire" you will probably recognise the guy in the video link I have provided. At one point in this new footage he communicates with the keris isi and as a result the keris moves all by itself.
I know it could be faked but I think I believe in him :)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8
The man certain does seem to have some real skills, though i wonder if the movement in the keris isn't more a testament to his power rather than the keris. :shrug: ;)

[Pusaka]

Yes your probably right, the keris moved at the same time his hand moved across the edge of the table so I think he is using his sakti/prana to do this.
Some skill he has got there :eek:

[PenangsangII]

The man certain does seem to have some real skills, though i wonder if the movement in the keris isn't more a testament to his power rather than the keris. :shrug: ;)

It's the combination between the keris & the owner's powers :D

The idea of forging or owning a keris in the olden days was compatibility between the owner & the keris. It's some kind of an alter ego of the owner.

[Pusaka]

All of them are appreciated though, treated with respect and oiled and incensed regularly.


David may I ask what incense you burn for the keris? I would be interested to know what others use also. Is there one which is considered traditional for this purpose?

[David]

I try to use sandalwood when i can though i have used others including nag champa. I prefer to use the woodier scents as opposed to sweet fragrances. Ultimately i think it is more about intention than the actual scent and whatever you decide is best for you and your keris will be best for you. :)

[pakana]

I think that it's more preferable natural scent incense, and that is what I use, not vanilla for example..But as david said, the intention and the positive feeling towards the keris is most important..

It is strange however that in all cultures globaly, the sense of smell is the most important when it comes to spirits.. and to humans of course, since the smell is the sense of "memory"..

George

[Pusaka]

Personally I dont burn Incense for any of my keris. I do oil them though and I dont like using any oil which may contain mineral or petroleum products.

In all cultures the burning of incense and offering of food is used to attract spirits. Actually its not the smell but the vibration which is setup in the local atmosphere that attracts such things. according to what you use you will setup a different vibration. Bad spirits are attracted to blood and the fume it gives off. Some keris have used blood in their preparation and they as a result would harbor bad spirits. Think of it like this, if your garden was full of flowers it will attract bees and butterfly's but if you had a dead animal in your garden the sent would attract flys.

[David]

Personally I dont burn Incense for any of my keris. I do oil them though and I dont like using any oil which may contain mineral or petroleum products.

In all cultures the burning of incense and offering of food is used to attract spirits. Actually its not the smell but the vibration which is setup in the local atmosphere that attracts such things. according to what you use you will setup a different vibration. Bad spirits are attracted to blood and the fume it gives off. Some keris have used blood in their preparation and they as a result would harbor bad spirits. Think of it like this, if your garden was full of flowers it will attract bees and butterfly's but if you had a dead animal in your garden the sent would attract flys.

I am not too sure how this discussion fits in with keris since AFAIK blood sacrifice is not a common way to honor one's keris. However, since you have seen fit to speak of what "all cultures" do i think you will find that your view that blood will attract only bad spirits is not true to all cultures. It certainly isn't true in African and African diaspora cultures.
And that dead animal in your garden will only fertilize the soil and allow more flowers to grow. ;) It's all a matter of perspective. :)

[Pusaka]

I found the following statement athttp://www.cimande.com/writings/keris/keris2.htm

"In Indonesia, it was and is customary to feed such a keris, at least once a week, usually on a Saturday. The feeding can consist of applying a special oil to the blade, which is made from water growing plants and then passing the blade over a special incense, allowing the smoke to encompass the blade. This incense resembles Gum Myrrh and is a resinous tree sap material called Mignon. First to start the operation the keris is asked if it may be opened (usually done if the blade is being used for a noncombat application) by saying a suitable word, such as maaf, which means, may I? If the blade glides open easily it is appropriate to continue the operation. If not then the reason must be found and it is not auspicious to try and force the issue at that time."

I would like to ask members here if they have any information on this keris oil which is made from water growing plants. I have never heard of it personally until I read the above statement.

[A. G. Maisey]

The very few people whom I have known to engage in using incense on a keris have done this on Thursday evening.

The incense used is menyan (kemenyan), which is from gum benzoin, from the styrax tree.

It is used by placing a small lump on top of coals in a small charcoal brazier made of terracotta.

[PenangsangII]

I am not too sure how this discussion fits in with keris since AFAIK blood sacrifice is not a common way to honor one's keris. However, since you have seen fit to speak of what "all cultures" do i think you will find that your view that blood will attract only bad spirits is not true to all cultures. It certainly isn't true in African and African diaspora cultures.
And that dead animal in your garden will only fertilize the soil and allow more flowers to grow. ;) It's all a matter of perspective. :)

Bugis keris culture has this ritual called "mencerak". Blood of animal (usually rooster) replaced the use of human blood (usually the keris owner's himself). ;)

[pakana]

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]The very few people whom I have known to engage in using incense on a keris have done this on Thursday evening.

This is because Kamis Kliwon is considered to be a day for the spirits. And it is always Thursday (once a month though)

George

[A. G. Maisey]

Original post deleted because upon reflection I considered it to be non-productive.

[Pusaka]

I'm just thinking about this oil which is made with water growing plants, the only thing that comes to mind is perhaps lotus oil. I have actually used lotus oil on some of my keris. I cant think of any other aquatic plants from which oil is made.

[David]

Bugis keris culture has this ritual called "mencerak". Blood of animal (usually rooster) replaced the use of human blood (usually the keris owner's himself). ;)
Is this a ritual which is meant as an offering to the keris or it's spirit or does it have some other purpose?

[pakana]

[This is because Kamis Kliwon is considered to be a day for the spirits. And it is always Thursday (once a month though)

George[/QUOTE]


Actually, today is Kamis Kliwon if anyone is interested to feed his/her "little friends". :)

[David]

Thanks for the heads up George. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

Kamis kliwon cannot fall more than once a month, but that does not mean that there is a kamis kliwon in every month.

This year, 2008, kamis kliwon falls on jan 3, feb 7, mar 13, apr 17, may 22, june 26, july 31, no kamis kliwon in august, sept 4, okt 9, nop 13, des 18.

Kamis kliwon occurs when kliwon, from the five day market week:- legi (umanis),pahing, pon, wage, kliwon, coincides with kamis (Thursday), from the seven day calendar week.

The sacred day for Muslim people is Friday, but Friday does not commence when midnight is passed on Thursday, it commences when the sun goes down on Thursday, and it ends when the sun goes down on Friday.

Those people whom I have known who followed the practice of bathing their keris with smoke from menyan did so each Thursday evening. However, the reason why somebody may, or may not do something when that person is acting in accord with a Javanese belief system is not necessarily simple, easily interpreted , nor standardised.

For instance, the conjunction of kamis + kliwon generates a set of numbers under its neptu that can be interpreted in various ways according to the Candra Sangkala. Then again, according to the dhapur of a keris, one day may be better than any other to attend to any perceived needs of that keris---for example, minggu wage is the best day to attend to a keris of dhapur brojol. But on the other hand, if that day falls on a day when the naga is not in a fortunate position, or when the owner himself may be better to perhaps stay in bed and not do anything, then obviously he would be a little bit silly to engage in tending to his keris.

Thus, if we are truly serious about bathing our keris with menyan, it might be best to first determine our Javanese horoskop, consider the attributes of our keris, and take account of the characteristics of the various days. Probably we should seek expert advice in such an important matter. But for those of us who are not Javanese, and not living within the social and cultural fabric of traditional Jawa, all of this could be a little bit pointless.

[PenangsangII]

Is this a ritual which is meant as an offering to the keris or it's spirit or does it have some other purpose?

I am not sure why it must be blood, but my guru told me that this ritual is supposed to boost the keris owners spirit in the face of an impending battle. Sometimes, the keris owner undergoes this ritual before running amok....to kill anyone on his path....something like juramentado that is practised by the moros.

Why blood? It's said that once you see blood all over your keris (and your body), you are no longer afraid to draw blood from virtually anybody. It's somekind of prevention from "mabuk darah" (passing out upon seeing a lot of blood :D ).

[Pusaka]

I thought the blood was an offering to the Djinn in the keris. Not all keris have Djinn but the bad ones do. This type of keris is said to get more powerful the more times the blade has tasted blood. Sure most of you have heard about the keris becoming more powerful by tasting blood. If you think about it its obvious a metal blade is not going to get stronger by being covered in blood but what's in the blade might ;)

[David]

I thought the blood was an offering to the Djinn in the keris. Not all keris have Djinn but the bad ones do. This type of keris is said to get more powerful the more times the blade has tasted blood. Sure most of you have heard about the keris becoming more powerful by tasting blood. If you think about it its obvious a metal blade is not going to get stronger by being covered in blood but what's in the blade might ;)
I have quite a few keris that have tasted blood (my own) and they have shown no sign of being inherently evil or any more powerful because of it. :)

[Raden Usman Djogja]

the existence of keris is unique in south east asian social system and believe.

the people who believe keris is an appartement of ghost/spirit tend to do an offering ritual as an obligation. Even, if not an obligation, they do more because they are afraid if the ghost/spirit inside leaving their kerises and trying to find new appartements in where full of kemenyan smoke every friday kliwon / tuesday kliwon or friday legi.

moreover, some people go beyond. for instance, even still in the same level of offering using kemenyan, there are variety of kemenyan. everyone has favorite kemenyans. more powerful ghost inside they believe, more special kemenyan they offer. Then, usually, more special kemenyan is more expensive.

competition of offering is not finished yet by offering the most expensive kemenyan.

to few people, they try to offer using fresh blood. In their believe, using blood is the ultimate offering to get the most powerful ghost/spirit from sixth world.

then, till this step, sometimes a question rises who the real master is: the owner of keris or the ghost inside keris which owning the soul of the owner. be aware :)

offering is an expression
expression leads awareness
awareness leads to the decision how many effort should be spent
then
the real power of protecting should still inside the people who do an offering
the keris remains merely a "medium"
even to the people who believe in ghost power
the keris master should be THE MASTER.

all mentioned above is just an opinion :)

OeS in Africa

[David]

offering is an expression
expression leads awareness
awareness leads to the decision how many effort should be spent
then
the real power of protecting should still inside the people who do an offering
the keris remains merely a "medium"
even to the people who believe in ghost power
the keris master should be THE MASTER.

I believe we see eye to eye on this one Usman. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, agreed.

The master of oneself.

[Pusaka]

Personally I think a keris is and can be thought of as a Jimat.

http://drgrotte.com/BalineseMedicine.shtml#MantraforAmulets

[David]

Personally I think a keris is and can be thought of as a Jimat.

http://drgrotte.com/BalineseMedicine.shtml#MantraforAmulets
"Because the jimats is created and consecrated specifically for one individual it can never be transferred to another"
In this respect at least i would have to say that a jimat is the polar opposite of a keris.
:shrug:

[Pusaka]

"If possible, the consecration of the jimats through the mantras is best when completed either on the new moon, full moon or a particularly auspicious day called Kajeng Kliwon that occurs every fifteen days. Consecration proceeds as follows:

1. Bringing the jimats into being with its accompanying mantra, using the name of the recipient as well as visualization
2. making the jimats alive with the Penguripmantra,
3. following with a joining mantra,
4. concluding with the Pasupati mantra that imbues the jimats with sakti

The jimats is then worn next to the skin by the recipient, who is instructed with additional information on the responsibilities of honoring, respecting and maintaining the live state of the jimats. If these instructions are not followed the jimats will cease to contain living energy."


Above was what I was referring to, the isi (or whatever you prefer to call it) would be created in a similar way. Also its questionable as to whether a keris was made for one person or not. That is why some would prefer a new keris rather than an old one ;)

[David]

Also its questionable as to whether a keris was made for one person or not. That is why some would prefer a new keris rather than an old one ;)
Is it? Surely a specific keris is initially designed with a single person in mind, but the idea that it will then be passed on down through the family as a direct line of power and a means of accessing that family's power and history seems implicit to the keris and it's cultural application.
Seems a strange statement from a guy who calls himself Pusaka. ;) :)
There may indeed be similarities with the way jimat is imbued with sakti, but i think that it in the nature of the way this particular type of magick works. Certain many keris were made solely as talismans, but then keris have always had many other positions to fill in Indonesian life. I am not saying that some may not have functioned as a type of jimat in some cases, but to say that is what a keris is seems a bit off the mark to me. :shrug:

[PenangsangII]

The isi of a keris is transferable to the next owner, provided we treat the isi in the same manner that the original owner/s did. Further, when we buy a keris, we have the so called akad or solemn, and its not exactly buying a keris, but rather marrying to a keris by offering "mahar" or "mas kawin".

[Alam Shah]

The isi of a keris is transferable to the next owner, provided we treat the isi in the same manner that the original owner/s did. Further, when we buy a keris, we have the so called akad or solemn, and its not exactly buying a keris, but rather marrying to a keris by offering "mahar" or "mas kawin".I've heard that not all keris 'isi' is transferable to the next owner. For example, the pusaka class, 'isi' would only serve the blood line of the initial owner or family.

[David]

I've heard that not all keris 'isi' is transferable to the next owner. For example, the pusaka class, 'isi' would only serve the blood line of the initial owner or family.
For the most part i agree with you Shahrial. Certainly if i were to buy a true pusaka item that was in one family for generations i would never consider that keris to now be my pusaka, or believe that i could then pass that keris onto my son an maintain any kind of unbroken chain of power from the original family ownership. However, while i do believe that "blood may be thicker than water", i think perhaps intention may be at least as thick as blood. I can envision a scenario where a keris might be passed on to someone who is not actually a part of the original owners bloodline. Perhaps an adopted son or someone who has become like a son to the keris holder and/or his family. If it is given in this spirit and accepted with these understandings i believe it may be possible to maintain an unbroken chain of power in the keris.

[Alam Shah]

... I can envision a scenario where a keris might be passed on to someone who is not actually a part of the original owners bloodline. Perhaps an adopted son or someone who has become like a son to the keris holder and/or his family. If it is given in this spirit and accepted with these understandings i believe it may be possible to maintain an unbroken chain of power in the keris.Perhaps. Should the original bloodline pass it on to someone else as mentioned, normally there would be a ceremony, for the 'transfer of ownership' with the name of the 'guardian' / 'isi', be made known... together with the accompanying rituals, based on what I understand. ;)

[Pusaka]

Perhaps. Should the original bloodline pass it on to someone else as mentioned, normally there would be a ceremony, for the 'transfer of ownership' with the name of the 'guardian' / 'isi', be made known... together with the accompanying rituals, based on what I understand. ;)


the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris


True, if it is a real keris (one with power) then you cant keep any isi alive without repeating the mantra/ name. To know the name of a keris is to access its power. The name is only known to the owner/ maybe the family also? If you buy a real keris how will you find out its name?

[David]

True, if it is a real keris (one with power) then you cant keep any isi alive without repeating the mantra/ name. To know the name of a keris is to access its power. The name is only known to the owner/ maybe the family also? If you buy a real keris how will you find out its name?
Ask it. ;) :)

[Pusaka]

Ask it. ;) :)

LOL David, I dont have that problem because I'm quite sure none of my keris, including the old ones have isi. Actually I believe a keris with an isi is a very very rare thing. Only people of a very high level can create an isi. It requires a higher manasakti than the average person has. Not something that can be acquired without training in ilmu and a thorough knowledge of such things. Such people are rare indeed and therefore such keris are rare indeed.
I know that there may be many who say prayers and mantra to keris with the intention of empowering it but as a guru once told me "a keris is only as powerful as its maker" Adepts are rare people, there are many who think or declare themselves as such but when it comes down to it most of them can talk the talk but you will find few can actually walk the walk :D

[PenangsangII]

Perhaps. Should the original bloodline pass it on to someone else as mentioned, normally there would be a ceremony, for the 'transfer of ownership' with the name of the 'guardian' / 'isi', be made known... together with the accompanying rituals, based on what I understand. ;)


Yes blood is thicker than water.....but not necessarily having the bloodline will entitle you to own a pusaka....normally the "isi" knows who can maintain the keris....and the person could be a total stranger.

[Alam Shah]

Yes blood is thicker than water.....but not necessarily having the bloodline will entitle you to own a pusaka....normally the "isi" knows who can maintain the keris....and the person could be a total stranger.I agree... a stranger but not a nobody. ;)

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Lets imagine there was an unmarried buddhist/hindhuist monk commissioning a keris pusaka.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Lets imagine there was an unmarried buddhist/hindhuist monk commissioning a keris pusaka.

Alam & Penangsang,

If the monk had passed away, no one have bloodline relation with him. If his keris had an "isi", will the "isi" be inactive forever?

According to "isi", in my town, a lot of people believe in "isi", not only in keris but also in stone (such as akik), talisman (e.g. rajah?!) and wood (such as warangka).

regards,
Usman

[Alam Shah]

Alam & Penangsang,

If the monk had passed away, no one have bloodline relation with him. If his keris had an "isi", will the "isi" be inactive forever?I was told that the 'isi' would probably seek a new owner... depends on the strength of the 'isi'.

According to "isi", in my town, a lot of people believe in "isi", not only in keris but also in stone (such as akik), talisman (e.g. rajah?!) and wood (such as warangka).

regards,
UsmanLikewise, in the old malay world... but then again, there are a few school of thoughts, depending on different belief systems. ;)

[pakana]

Greetings to all keris lovers,

I was wondering if someone (especially our Indonesian or Malayan friends) can enlight us about the way a keris might "react" if some thief or burglar is, for example, trying to get to someone that his house is been guarded by a keris. Only by rattling in it's sheath? Any other info that you might have heard?

George

[Raden Usman Djogja]

George,

A lot of versions. However, I think everyone will be hesitated to tell stories. For example, someone said that his keris gave a sign by rattling whenever there was a thief inside his premises. One of his listeners gave a comment that Indonesia and Malaysia are located on volcano-rings that earthquake could happen everytime. This comment is considered as logic and smart observation. On the other hand, embarassing and losing face to the source person who still has Melayu conception and culture in his dailylife.

So... it is wise not to expect to much to get magical/illogical stories in scientific/logic forum.

warm salam,
OeS

[pakana]

George,

someone said that his keris gave a sign by rattling whenever there was a thief inside his premises. One of his listeners gave a comment that Indonesia and Malaysia are located on volcano-rings that earthquake could happen everytime.
So... it is wise not to expect to much to get magical/illogical stories in scientific/logic forum.

warm salam,
OeS

I think that this explanation is far too simple and not so logic. Plus it underestimates the storyteller. Like he is in no position to understand if the ground beneath his legs is moving or not!


And I think that in a forum everything should be discussed, either is logic or not. I understand that the majority of people might not express their view, because they might think that they are going to lose face. Or the rest of the forum users might say they are not so "serious". Anyway,I think this is an interesting topic! :)

George

[Raden Usman Djogja]

George,

This is just one of stories that I collected. Years ago, in Gunung Kidul (Jogja, Indonesia), I got a story about Kiai Konang (Konang is Jawa word which means Firefly/Gloworm). Kiai Konang is a tombak (spearhead): perhaps it is classified as Korowelang shape, luks 13 and pedaringan kebak pamor.

Once day, there was a robbery attempt in the house of Kiai Konang. Knowing in dangerous situation, the owner unsheathed Kiai Konang. In short, the robbers run away.

Weeks/months later, the robbers were caught by police. In their testimonies, when they tried to steal in the house of Kiai Konang, they showed that the owner of the house held a pusaka. That pusaka sparked light/fire like firefly. Facing with odd phenomenon, the robbers run away.

After that, the spear point was given a name: Kiai Firefly.

Based on that story, we may conclude that the sign of keris/pusaka (if It can give and you believe in) varies.

warm salam,

OeS

[pakana]

George,

This is just one of stories that I collected. Years ago, in Gunung Kidul (Jogja, Indonesia), I got a story about Kiai Konang (Konang is Jawa word which means Firefly/Gloworm). Kiai Konang is a tombak (spearhead): perhaps it is classified as Korowelang shape, luks 13 and pedaringan kebak pamor.

Once day, there was a robbery attempt in the house of Kiai Konang. Knowing in dangerous situation, the owner unsheathed Kiai Konang. In short, the robbers run away.

Weeks/months later, the robbers were caught by police. In their testimonies, when they tried to steal in the house of Kiai Konang, they showed that the owner of the house held a pusaka. That pusaka sparked light/fire like firefly. Facing with odd phenomenon, the robbers run away.

After that, the spear point was given a name: Kiai Firefly.

Based on that story, we may conclude that the sign of keris/pusaka (if It can give and you believe in) varies.

warm salam,

OeS


:)

[Raden Usman Djogja]

George,

One of my hobbies is to collect keris stories. Compared with my other hobby, to collect keris, It was free of charge. Only need to spend for transportation.

The hobby to collect keris stories, actually, came after. The first is aiming to collect kerises. However, as a university student in Jogjakarta, even to buy a keris which was considered as "beringharjo traditional market class", I had to save 1 or 2 months from my scholarship grant. Then, I modified. Instead of collecting/buying, I went from home to home to gather stories.

The stories have a lot of angels. Some were very interesting. Some were very boring. But, whatever te stories were my commitment was to be a good listener as far as I could. One of side positive impact to be a stories gather. I could map the distibution and the movement of pusakas in my hometown, of course outside Jogja palace. Mr So and So had Kanjeng Kiai Such and Such which based on the legend Kiai Such and Such was used for important mission once upon the time. FUNNY.... I enjoyed it. Another positive impact I always hope, whenever there is a movement keris (considered as pusaka class) and affordable at that moment, I know what should I do.

Logic and Illogic,

Based on tens people I met successfully, they told keris from logical aspects only if considering me as their new acquintance or a stranger. More they talked more they tended to tell something which was illogic aspect of keris. They called that aspect as spiritual, klenik, true-story, macrocosmos, genie, isi et cetera et cetera et cetera. In my conclution was only one: they talked about POWER of KERIS.

I dont know here, in this lovely forum, Keris Waroeng Kopi. Beside of art aspects of Keris, how deep do the members take unspoken consideration of illogical aspect of keris. However, I have never to rise that question since, imho, it is too provocative, isnt it?!

warm salam,

OeS
Romo Somo "zonder mistik, keris is less interesting"

[David]

Usman, i don't think it is provocative at all and i certain don't discourage the telling of unsubstantiated or "illogical" stories on this forum. I think what is important is the context in which they are told though. If, for instance, we are trying to come to some academic conclusion about the keris in regards to some historical or technical context, legends and stories might not be valid for that discussion. But legends and stories in and of themselves are marvelous things that even if not actually true (and some of them might be true ;) ) can give us a deeper understanding of the culture and spirit of the people and place. :)
I hope you have been writing down all those stories you have been collecting. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

In 1978 I moved into a new house. I did not move in overnight, but moved some things in, then a week later came back and took up residence. When I came back the second time I found that my new house had been burgled. The thieves had taken everything of value---they even took a jacket and a pair of shoes.

Now, what I realised was that I had left my new house empty and without a particular keris that I knew to be very powerful in the prevention of robbery. During the next 20 odd years in that house nobody ever tried to break in again. Some of my neighbours houses were burgled, but not mine, even though my house was very easy to get into because it had a low, hidden back window that a burglar could access without being seen.

Why?

It must have been because from the day I moved into that house and lived there I had that one particular keris with me.

Not only that, but my house never ever burnt down either, and I reckon that is proof of the power of another keris that I take care of that prevents houses from being burnt down.

But its not only keris that prevent these unfortunate events from taking place. My grandmother always used to hang garlic above the windows and doors, as did one of my aunts. The aunt took extra measures too---she had a holy water font at each doorway. The purpose of the garlic was to ensure that no evil spirits entered the house, and they never did. Not in either house. So you see garlic can be a very powerful preventative too.

I could go on and on about the power of various types of preventative charms. For instance, my mother never moved outside the house without St. Christopher around her neck. She lived well into her 70's, and never, ever during her entire life was she involved in any sort of unfortunate event while travelling from one place to another.

But the whole problem is that we are surrounded by disbelievers. My next door neighbour in that house that was burgled was a manufacturer of burglar alarms, and when my house was burgled, he immediately offered to instal an alarm for me at cost. I agreed and he put motion detectors everywhere and warning stickers all over the windows. He reckoned it was his good work that kept the burglars away. Like I said---disbelievers everywhere.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

believer et disbeliever exist in every aspect of life. even in God some people trust and some others dont trust.

so... dont put our believenesses in the same basket.

to protect our house, we may use several tools: dog, swan, alarm, keris, white onion, talisman, holy book, insurance et cetera :)

warm salam,
OeS

[PenangsangII]

What's is the difference between "tuah pamor" and "tuah isi". Do these 2 tuahs work concurrently in guarding your self, family & properties?

[pakana]

Yes, I agree that tambal wengkon may not be strong enough sometimes, I have one teja kinurung and still could not be used to exorcise a haunted house. Instead, Iike I said earlier in my post, rojo gundolo would stand a better chance. In the end, the owner is still the determining factor ;)


What do you think about Kul Buntet pamor? Some say that it's a prevention from bad things happen to you (I think Tammens), some sort of protection maybe?

george