Question about preserving a keris

[pakana]

Greetings to all,

I would like to hear your opinion about preserving a keris. Do you think that the kerisboards that sold all over, are o.k, or the closed cabinet is more appropriate? Which is the ideal way? Any thoughts? This question is related and with the metaphisical aspect of keris I quess..

[PenangsangII]

Pakana,

From spiritual point of view, traditionally keris is hung on the wall. The boards / holder is more appropriate in this aspect. Do remember, the spirit of the keris needs to breathe too, and being enclosed in the cupboard may suffocate him ;) .

Penangsang

[David]

Pakana,

From spiritual point of view, traditionally keris is hung on the wall. The boards / holder is more appropriate in this aspect. Do remember, the spirit of the keris needs to breathe too, and being enclosed in the cupboard may suffocate him ;) .

Penangsang
I think this is mostly a Jawanese perspective. AFAIK keris boards are not used in Bali. At least i have never seen one large enough to accommodate the larger Balinese form. Special plush lined boxes are also known for storing special keris, though i do bring the one i keep in such a box out in the open air regularly to avoid suffocation. ;) :)
Personally i like to display my collection in my study for my own regular appreciation, but i do understand that others prefer to keep their keris mostly stored away. I think it might also depend on just how large your collection might be. :) I use a combination of wall boards (blawong), keris racks (ploncon) and a variety of Balinese standing figural holders to do the job. But i think that if you feel more comfortable keeping your keris in a closable cabinet that it is just fine. :)
On a more practical level one might want to consider such elements as temperature and humidity. If you have a way to controls these where your are stored, all the better. I, unfortunately, do not, but i live in a climate which generally doesn't hit the high extremes. In the winter i usually make sure there is a bowl of water nearby to evaporate into the air to cut down on the dryness. I also make sure that my blades are regularly oiled and, on the more spiritual side, smoked with incense. :)

[pakana]

Thank you very much for your opinions. But the suffocation thing do happen? Or is just a joke? :confused:

george

[asomotif]

I assume that the suffocation is a spiritiual suffocation.

I keep my best keris on a kerisboard in the attic.
Attic tend to be spooky places, but with the protection of the keris I consider it save now ;)

[ganjawulung]

I would like to hear your opinion about preserving a keris. Do you think that the kerisboards that sold all over, are o.k, or the closed cabinet is more appropriate? Which is the ideal way? Any thoughts? This question is related and with the metaphisical aspect of keris I quess..

It depends on the space available, and also the consideration whether it is a fixed preservation or moveable. This is examples of preserving in a moveable manner. In a wooden "ploncon" (keris or short spear stands). Not wasting too much space, and still moveable. You may use also, as David said, with "blawong" (wooden carving for putting a single keris in the wall)...

Ganjawulung

[pakana]

So Ganjawulung,

Do you think it is appropriate for kerises to be stored in plonkon all together? I say that because there is this opinion that they must be stored each one separetely. I guess it's that the spirit inside wants it's privacy.. But again if your house is not a palace in Keraton, then you have a problem.. ;)
I would like to hear the thoughts of native Indonesians as you, as keris is a part of your culture..
george

[A. G. Maisey]

What I will write is not advice.

It is the telling of what some museums do, truly spiritual people whom I know in Jawa, and whom are also orientated towards keris do, and what I do.

If one wishes to preserve the blade of the keris it should be stored bare, on a glass shelf, lightly coated with a good gun oil, and in controlled atmosphere to limit humidity and extremes of heat and cold.
The wrongko, jejeran, mendak, and pendok should all be separated and stored on glass under atmospheric conditions suited to the materials involved.
This approach is ideal for preservation.

If one holds the belief that one's keris is a mystical object, then it must be treated with a degree of respect, and whatever essence it may hold should be conserved. The keris should be stored in a singep ( a purpose made cloth bag), the singep placed horizontally in a purpose built chest, and this chest kept in a cupboard in the most private male section of the house, possibly a dedicated cabinet in the study or office would be ideal.
On specific occasion, or as the need may arise, it would be acceptable to place this keris in a blawong , above head hieght, on the wall of the house in a location where the need may most likely be met.
This is the approach I have observed that is used by my inlaws and friends who live in Jawa and who are "keris conscious", but who are not keris collectors.

I keep my entire collection of keris in a security room in my house. It is not a large room, and it contains several chests of drawers, several sets of shelves, and a very large camphorwood chest. All my keris are kept in singeps, and those singeps are kept in drawers and boxes. All keris are stored horizontally. The blades of my keris are oiled with a keris oil that is made of 50% medicinal parrafin, 45% sandalwood oil, and 5% kenanga oil. Prior to oiling all blades have been drenched with WD40. All blades are wrapped in plastic film prior to being placed in the wrongko.
In this security room I have one keris in a single ploncon, and two keris in blawongs; these are my personal keris.
I do not have any keris displayed anywhere in my house.
I do have a number of tombak in the house, 7 on display shafts in a ploncon, 4 or 5 on full length shafts placed in various corners. These tombak are not consciously displayed, but kept as they are simply because it is convenient for me.
Apart from what I have outlined here, there are always a number of keris in various stages of maintenance that are spread throughout the house, some at one end of the diningroom table, some on the dresser, some in the bedroom, some in the workshop.Anywhere I turn I can see keris, but these are not on display, they are being worked on.

In times past I have kept keris on open display, but I found that the amount of work required to maintain keris that were left open to dust, flies, humidity and so on, was simply too great. I once had something like 80 or 100 keris displayed in a dedicated alcove of my house, and to maintain these keris in good condition used almost all my spare time. Open display , in my opinion, is just not practical.

Ultimately, the way in which one stores one's keris is a personal decision. The objective should be to store in a way that gives one the highest degree of comfort.

[ganjawulung]

It depends on the space available, and also the consideration whether it is a fixed preservation or moveable. This is examples of preserving in a moveable manner. In a wooden "ploncon" (keris or short spear stands). Not wasting too much space, and still moveable. You may use also, as David said, with "blawong" (wooden carving for putting a single keris in the wall)...
Of course, this an unfinished info yet. And this is not of course, a "court way" but "personal way" to store kerises. Ploncon (pls spell it: plonchon) is very useful to place kerises after the are oiled with "keris oil" (Alan has said about that kind of oil). Keris oil, is very personal. In Jawa, every keris people has their own scent of keris oil. Sometimes, from smelling the oil of keris, people can guess who is the owner of the keris. Or, people recognise well, somebody's keris oil by scenting it.

Why ploncon? Because it is safe to "stand" or to place the wet-oiled kerises before they are put in "singeps" (like 'thermo-bag' for tennis-racket), or in "cinde" (Jogja's specific model of singep, made of "kain cinde" or a kind of scarf-cloth). The keris oil will flow to the tip of the blade. And after quite dry, then you may put them on singeps (see picture).

Ploncon, of course, it is not a permanent display. It is useful for drying the keris oil, or for displaying for your personal occassion: in your living room, or private room. Yes, the special keris board is better, to store your kerises in singeps horizontally. It depends on you, where you will store your personal kerises.

Ganjawulung

[ganjawulung]

Do you think it is appropriate for kerises to be stored in plonkon all together? I say that because there is this opinion that they must be stored each one separetely. I guess it's that the spirit inside wants it's privacy.. But again if your house is not a palace in Keraton, then you have a problem.. ;)
I would like to hear the thoughts of native Indonesians as you, as keris is a part of your culture..
george
Dear George,
In many occasions, the Javanese commoners store their kerises in their "dressoir" (together with their clothes), in the upper rack and kept in singeps... It is really a personal consideration.

Ganjawulung

[PenangsangII]

I guess the Javanese culture in Indonesia and Malaysia has differred tremendously, although more or less I can still understand Javanese - pasar & halus :D

A Malaysian Javanese wiseman once told me not to keep my keris in the casing / ploncon because "HE" would be "sumbeg" or suffocating, thus advised me to hang it on the wall tip down using a blawong / display board.

The casing / ploncon is usually used to cover up tumbak or spear heads, and when in use for keris, it's when we carry the keris to Upacara Suro or other ceremonies (except the one on your waist).

[PenangsangII]

Ooopss...correction. I mean "singep" as the casing, and not the "ploncon".

[ganjawulung]

I guess the Javanese culture in Indonesia and Malaysia has differred tremendously, although more or less I can still understand Javanese - pasar & halus :D

A Malaysian Javanese wiseman once told me not to keep my keris in the casing / ploncon because "HE" would be "sumbeg" or suffocating, thus advised me to hang it on the wall tip down using a blawong / display board.

The casing / ploncon is usually used to cover up tumbak or spear heads, and when in use for keris, it's when we carry the keris to Upacara Suro or other ceremonies (except the one on your waist).
Dear Penangsang,
Please don't be disheartened by the differences. Even in Solo and Jogjakarta (indonesia) which is only 64 kms apart, still there are quite a lot of differences in their way of appreciating their traditional arts. Including keris and of course, their wayang, and gamelan (javanese orchestra)...

Ganjawulung

[Rick]

I have always wondered how two keris may be mounted on this board .
There are four holes .. :confused:

[Newsteel]

Hi Rick,

The trick is to make a loop (from a good strong string, about 1-2mm thickness). The string entering one of the holes passing through the next closest hole. And another string for another loop. There, you're able to get 2 loops to hang 2 kerises on the board. The loop must not be big or else you will not able to hang your keris securely. The loop must be adequately small so that it can hang by the wrangka.

[Newsteel]

Rick, I've use your blawong for example. See the edited picture - with string attached.

[Rick]

Thank you Newsteel . :) :)

Rick

[Jussi M.]

classic display/store 1?

[shadejoy]

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

[shadejoy]

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

Should perhaps this post be moved to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27622 ?

[David]

Should perhaps this post be moved to http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27622 ?

That might be better. If we want to consolidate responses to your questions it isn't a good idea to revive every old post on the subject. We can place links to these old posts all under one heading in your new thread. ;)

[A. G. Maisey]

A keris of this type can be quite difficult to maintain.

The number one, essential to observe is that it should not be kept in an unprotected situation.

It must be protected as much as possible from dust, fly spots, temperature and humidity variation. In a normal home environment this can be pretty challenging.

Do not keep the keris in its scabbard.The blade should be lightly oiled and kept in a plastic sleeve. Gun oil is a very good protective agent, but depending on how that kinatah work was applied it could loosen it. My approach would be to use medicinal paraffin or Singer sewing machine oil lightly applied to the bare ferric material only, with an artist's paint brush, I like to add sandalwood oil to the oil. I would store the oiled and plastic sleeve protected blade in a horizontal position in a drawer or cupboard.


Kayu arang can be very subject to cracking unless treated with care. It must never be exposed to direct sunlight. I use a good quality furniture oil, worked into the wood with a toothbrush, only use a very small quantity of oil, the pendok might be held in place with adhesive, try not to let the oil penetrate behind the pendok if adhesive has been used. You don't need to use the oil very often, maybe once every 6 or 12 months, but you do need to keep the wrongko in a soft cloth cover, and stored without the blade in it, and in a protected situation, as with the blade.

This type of hilt uses adhesive to hold the metal enhancements in place. I would not use oil on this hilt, possibly a smear of good quality furniture wax applied with a finger tip or cotton bud to only the bare wood. Again, the hilt should be kept in a protected situation.

Most people want to have their keris out on display, so all the above advice is quite likely not to be followed. However, if it is followed your keris can be kept as it is now virtually forever.

In the past I have kept keris & other weapons on display, it was not kind to what I had out, and it was very time consuming to keep the keris & other things in good condition.

Protected environment is paramount:- blade out of scabbard, oiled + plastic sleeve, store flat; wrongko never sees the sun & is kept as protected as possible from dust, flies, heat & humidity variation; hilt is treated as with the wrongko.

Oil should be used sparingly.

[shadejoy]

Thank you very much @A. G. Maisey!

I have seen people enclosing the wilah in 'plastik mika'. I use plastic wrap instead, fully enshroud from pucuk to peksi. However, I wrap it in a way that the wilah is still able to be put in in the scabbard along with selut and hilt. My understanding at that time was to to have the Keris 'fully dressed' in the storage but with the wilah wrapped in plastic to avoid making contact with the wood. Granted, it's not fully in. I am going to follow your suggestion to leave it out of the scabbard and its hilt while fully covered. I store both of my Kerises laying horizontally in a Keris wooden box.

Another alternative I've seen people are using is mineral oil. Could we also use good quality (medical grade) mineral oil for Keris rust prevention; if so, do you think mineral oil is safer to kinatah compared to gun oil or should we also apply it to the bare iron only?

You mentioned sandalwood oil, are pure essential oils like sandalwood, rose, jasmine, etc going to stain the iron and/or the pamor overtime or that's not the case?

For warangka, I'll look for a good quality furniture oil from my local hardware store. Do you have suggestion on how to treat and care for the silver pendok?

For hilt, boy this is a tough one since the piece is so intricate. Both wood and metal carvings are so fine and I am usually not a patient one. Do you have suggestion on how to bring back the luster on the hilt's silver and gold?

Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it very much!

[shadejoy]

That might be better. If we want to consolidate responses to your questions it isn't a good idea to revive every old post on the subject. We can place links to these old posts all under one heading in your new thread. ;)

I don't know how to move post(s) from one thread to the other, could you advise? I would like to move Allan's response above as well if possible.

[shadejoy]

Thank you very much @A. G. Maisey!

I have seen people enclosing the wilah in 'plastik mika'. I use plastic wrap instead, fully enshroud from pucuk to peksi. However, I wrap it in a way that the wilah is still able to be put in in the scabbard along with selut and hilt. My understanding at that time was to to have the Keris 'fully dressed' in the storage but with the wilah wrapped in plastic to avoid making contact with the wood. Granted, it's not fully in. I am going to follow your suggestion to leave it out of the scabbard and its hilt while fully covered. I store both of my Kerises laying horizontally in a Keris wooden box.

Another alternative I've seen people are using is mineral oil. Could we also use good quality (medical grade) mineral oil for Keris rust prevention; if so, do you think mineral oil is safer to kinatah compared to gun oil or should we also apply it to the bare iron only?

You mentioned sandalwood oil, are pure essential oils like sandalwood, rose, jasmine, etc going to stain the iron and/or the pamor overtime or that's not the case?

For warangka, I'll look for a good quality furniture oil from my local hardware store. Do you have suggestion on how to treat and care for the silver pendok?

For hilt, boy this is a tough one since the piece is so intricate. Both wood and metal carvings are so fine and I am usually not a patient one. Do you have suggestion on how to bring back the luster on the hilt's silver and gold?

Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it very much!

Up ..looking for further advices, in case it's missed. I should also apologize in advance if my questions were rather rudimentary. I have close to zero knowledge of metal and woodwork treatments and preservation.

[David]

I don't know how to move post(s) from one thread to the other, could you advise? I would like to move Allan's response above as well if possible.
Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry. ;)

[A. G. Maisey]

SJ, the plastic I use is purchased in 100 meter rolls, it is used in Indonesia by people who sell snack foods, they fold and seal one end over a candle, put the food inside, then seal the other end, it comes in various widths & various thicknesses.

When I have run out of it, I've used sandwich cling wrap. I only wrap the blade and I normally store that oiled and wrapped blade in the wrongko, usually with the top inch or so of the blade not in the wrongko. This is practical, and I have had some keris stored like this for more than 50 years with only an occasional re-oil. I live waterfront to a salt water lake. Those blades are as good now as they were when I first stored them.

But if you want the best way to do it --- short of modern museum conditions --- you should store each part separately.

Medicinal paraffin is mineral oil, so is Singer sewing machine oil.

There are better oils for protection than what I prefer, but gun oil has an ugly smell on keris, I use gun oil on my firearms, I use light mineral oil and aromatic oil on my keris.

If the applied gold is true kinatah it has been mechanically fixed, but a lot of current era "kinatah" is fixed with adhesive. If your keris has genuine, mechanically fixed kinatah, the oil will not harm it, if it has "kinatah" fixed with adhesive, it will loosen over time when oil is applied.

I have never observed any unwanted blade staining with any oil I have ever used.

The easiest way to keep silver looking good is to use a silver polishing cloth. I only ever use Goddards, which is made in England. I have tried other brands in the past and have found them unsatisfactory in one way or another.

The hilt will definitely require some patience & delicacy in maintenance, but that maintenance does not need to be often, I leave things go for years sometimes, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to fiddle around with literally hundreds of keris continually, and I do not have the money to pay somebody to do it for me. I do things very infrequently, but when I do work on my collection I do it properly and do it once.

[Anthony G.]

I would love to revive this thread with more relevant questions on how to best preserving Keris if you don't mind. If I may..

It's Balinese Keris.
I take on point of view where I see Keris as exceptional piece of art rich with philosophical and cultural values. I am not a spiritual person. Therefore I tend to take a more practical approach on Keris but still acknowledging its esoteric aspects where they fit.

Condition of the Keris: is in great shape with golden kinatah and ruby on the lion's mouth. No rust, with notable pamor shown on the wilah.
Condition of the Warangka: It is a contemporary warangka with intricate carvings. It's made from kayu arang and in good shape with a few mild 'woodish brown' spots which I'm totally unsure of if they're just dirt or scuffs or something else.
Condition of Selut: Silver selut, in great condition.
Condition of Hilt: It's also from kayu arang with gold and silver. The silver and gold have lost their luster and looking dull.

My questions are
For wilah: Is gun oil a good rust prevention for Keris; if it is, can I lather it on the kinatah as well?
Most if not all Keris owners in Indonesia use some type of floral oils. Is that the same as 100% pure essential oils? Some of the oils are reddish in color, so I wonder, is it not going to stain the wilah or its pamor?
There is also a suggestion to drench the wilah in WD40 prior to oiling, is that practice ok as well with keris with kinatah, and will it remove the warangan thus affecting the contrast of the pamor?

For warangka: What should I use to protect the kayu arang and preserve the carvings, any suggestions for its silver pendak as well?

For hilt: This piece is so detailed. How do I bring back the luster without compromising the kayu arang?

I appreciate your suggestions and the discussions!

Interesting pamor pattern. Balinese keris pamor seems not to have this type.

[A. G. Maisey]

I agree with you Anthony, but this is unashamedly a Keris Kamardikan, and when we get into this territory, anything goes.

In any case, it is a beautiful piece of work.

[shadejoy]

Interesting pamor pattern. Balinese keris pamor seems not to have this type.

It is a Kamardikan Keris made in 2014, a bespoke piece. I commissioned a Pande in Bali and it took almost a year to finish. The pamor (Jarot Asem) was new to him, so I would agree with you @Anthony G. that this pamor is uncommon for Balinese Keris.

I plan on putting the wilah in an airtight vacuum-sealed plastic bag for preservation.

Thank you very much @Anthony G. & @A. G. Maisey for your appreciation.

[shadejoy]

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry. ;)

Duly noted, I will keep an eye out for the post. Thank you @David.

[shadejoy]

SJ, the plastic I use is purchased in 100 meter rolls, it is used in Indonesia by people who sell snack foods, they fold and seal one end over a candle, put the food inside, then seal the other end, it comes in various widths & various thicknesses.

When I have run out of it, I've used sandwich cling wrap. I only wrap the blade and I normally store that oiled and wrapped blade in the wrongko, usually with the top inch or so of the blade not in the wrongko. This is practical, and I have had some keris stored like this for more than 50 years with only an occasional re-oil. I live waterfront to a salt water lake. Those blades are as good now as they were when I first stored them.

But if you want the best way to do it --- short of modern museum conditions --- you should store each part separately.

Medicinal paraffin is mineral oil, so is Singer sewing machine oil.

There are better oils for protection than what I prefer, but gun oil has an ugly smell on keris, I use gun oil on my firearms, I use light mineral oil and aromatic oil on my keris.

If the applied gold is true kinatah it has been mechanically fixed, but a lot of current era "kinatah" is fixed with adhesive. If your keris has genuine, mechanically fixed kinatah, the oil will not harm it, if it has "kinatah" fixed with adhesive, it will loosen over time when oil is applied.

I have never observed any unwanted blade staining with any oil I have ever used.

The easiest way to keep silver looking good is to use a silver polishing cloth. I only ever use Goddards, which is made in England. I have tried other brands in the past and have found them unsatisfactory in one way or another.

The hilt will definitely require some patience & delicacy in maintenance, but that maintenance does not need to be often, I leave things go for years sometimes, I do not have the time, nor the inclination to fiddle around with literally hundreds of keris continually, and I do not have the money to pay somebody to do it for me. I do things very infrequently, but when I do work on my collection I do it properly and do it once.

The gun oil I use for my Keris is odorless. But I will look into medicinal paraffin (mineral oil) as substitute as it may be a better layer coat of protection than gun oil would.

I've found Hagerty silver polish for silver. Hopefully it's gentle enough on wood. Cleaning the warangka and hilt might just be my Spring project for this year.

Excellent advice and thank you very much as always for sharing!

[Rick]

Only moderators can sort that out. But i will be honest with you. We are not going to keep moving single posts around. There is a post in the Stickies for this forum that lists "Classic" posts. Rick and i will try to find the best post(s) to include there on the subject of cleaning and preserving and place a link in the "Classics" entry. ;)

I believe that research in these forums can be much more fruitful if done on one's own rather than having it all collated for you by the forum staff and put in a sticky thread.
Life is busy enough for most of us.
Seek and ye shall find.
Think of all the other useful keris related knowledge that will fall your way during the research process. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

SJ, if I were you I would give very serious thought to using Hagerty silver polish, or any other sort of polish, powder, paste or liquid on this hilt.

Polish compounds are designed to be used on large items.

When used on small items with delicate detail it becomes extremely difficult to remove all of the applied polish, the result then becomes a residue left in tiny depressions in the work. The removal of this residue then becomes a painstaking job that you need to have a loupe screwed into your eye to complete.

Jewellers overcome this problem by using cleaning methods that you cannot use with this wooden hilt.

A polishing cloth is really the only practical answer --- well, at least in my experience.

[Anthony G.]

It is a Kamardikan Keris made in 2014, a bespoke piece. I commissioned a Pande in Bali and it took almost a year to finish. The pamor (Jarot Asem) was new to him, so I would agree with you @Anthony G. that this pamor is uncommon for Balinese Keris.

I plan on putting the wilah in an airtight vacuum-sealed plastic bag for preservation.

Thank you very much @Anthony G. & @A. G. Maisey for your appreciation.


would you by chance knows or recall the Balinese panre name who made that difficult pamor pattern?

[shadejoy]

SJ, if I were you I would give very serious thought to using Hagerty silver polish, or any other sort of polish, powder, paste or liquid on this hilt.

Polish compounds are designed to be used on large items.

When used on small items with delicate detail it becomes extremely difficult to remove all of the applied polish, the result then becomes a residue left in tiny depressions in the work. The removal of this residue then becomes a painstaking job that you need to have a loupe screwed into your eye to complete.

Jewellers overcome this problem by using cleaning methods that you cannot use with this wooden hilt.

A polishing cloth is really the only practical answer --- well, at least in my experience.


The residue ..I see. Though I may get away with using silver foam on silver pendok. But it does sound like polishing cloth is the ideal solution especially for hilt.

Thank you very much for the recommendation!

[shadejoy]

would you by chance knows or recall the Balinese panre name who made that difficult pamor pattern?

He's Bli Pande Made Gede Suardika. I was very grateful that he was willing to take up on my request.
I believe his smithy is called Prapen Wesi Aji.

[Anthony G.]

He's Bli Pande Made Gede Suardika. I was very grateful that he was willing to take up on my request.
I believe his smithy is called Prapen Wesi Aji.

thanks for info :D

[David]

I believe that research in these forums can be much more fruitful if done on one's own rather than having it all collated for you by the forum staff and put in a sticky thread.
Life is busy enough for most of us.
Seek and ye shall find.
Think of all the other useful keris related knowledge that will fall your way during the research process. :)
I am of a similar mind Rick. There is an awful lot of information in our archives. Sometimes it takes a few different approaches using different key words each time. A little work can make your discoveries even more worthwhile sometimes. ;)

[shadejoy]

I am of a similar mind Rick. There is an awful lot of information in our archives. Sometimes it takes a few different approaches using different key words each time. A little work can make your discoveries even more worthwhile sometimes. ;)

To be honest with you, the search function isn't what I would like it to be. But in my opinion it isn't a technical issue. Rather, it's the nature of this forum, the discussions themselves. What I'm looking for, e.g. Keris maintenance, is discussed under multiple threads with various subject lines that are seemingly unrelated to Keris maintenance. For example, the original thread may have been about Keris hilt or showcasing personal Keris but then the conversation evolves around how to clean or preserving it. I totally understand, it's how discussion works. We want to keep the flow although often times it develops into a bigger scope. That is why I think the search function is what it is and we may want to take a few different approaches using different key words. It seems like tags are few and far between.

So I totally understand where you're coming from, @David and @Rich.
As newbie, I'll take what I can get. I have nothing but high regards for this forum and its contribution to one of Indonesia's cultural heritages.

Cheers!

[A. G. Maisey]

I tend to agree with you SJ.

I've never had a lot of success when I've searched for things. The search function is a real good facility to have, but it delivers --- in some cases --- a very great number of hits.

In one way this is really good, but you need the time to shift through multiple threads, and often, after shifting through those threads I still have not come up with the thing I have a half memory of.

Other people seem to have a lot more success using this search function than I do. It is either that they are much more clever than I am in its use, or they have much more time to fill in than I have.

The ideal would be for somebody with both the interest & the time, to compile an index of relevant subjects, not just maintenance, but perhaps other things that generate recurring questions.

But then again, maybe that's not such a great idea because if all the questions could be answered without discussion, there would be no discussion, and no discussion would see this Forum die.

[A. G. Maisey]

Pande Made Gede Suardika is a known keris-smith, he would be about 50 years old now. He is located in Den Pasar.

His work is known as being quite heavy, his garap is known as being detailed & neat. His pamor is known as being well managed, but he specialises in pamor mlumah, not pamor miring. I have never heard of him making pamor miring.

I am quite surprised that he was able to produce this very complex pamor miring back in 2014. It would seem that in spite of him being so well known he is inclined to hide his light under a bushel.

[A. G. Maisey]

SJ, in respect of using a foam cleaner on any part of keris silver, think about this carefully.

When we clean embossed or engraved silver, we want the impressions in the silver to retain their patina, we do not want to remove that black or bluish patina that permits the motif to be seen.

The ideal way, and also the easiest way in which to clean a tarnished pendok is to do an initial clean with 0000 steel wool, then follow up with a silver polish cloth.

All pastes and fluids cause more problems than they solve where keris are concerned. Pastes and foams and powders and fluids are great for silver platters and large items of silver ware, this is what they are designed for.

They have the potential to break your heart if you use them on keris fittings.

[Bob A]

For preservation of ferrous metals, I've long used a product called "Eezox" which is comprised of a solvent/carrier with cleaning properties, dissolved in which there is a surface protectant, left behind when the solvent evaporates. I use it on firearms, swords and knives of various types. If the object is to be stored, I give it a light coat of Renaissance Wax, which serves to seal against moisture even more.

I have not used Eezox on keris, as I'm not sure of its effect on surfaces layered in differing metals. Nor does Ren Wax seem appropriate on keris, given the occasional roughened surfaces.

Someone did extensive anti-corrosion testing, using 46 different products. The results were interesting, though the testing environment is not one I'd imagine any of my objects being exposed to:

https://dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667

[A. G. Maisey]

I had a look at that Bob, really impressive.

But where keris are concerned I like to use an aromatic oil, my preference is a mix of a base oil, usually medicinal paraffin or Singer sewing machine oil, and the sandalwood oil with a touch of kenongo oil. But in Jawa, although my mix is probably the most frequently encountered, some people will use other aromatic oils, such as rose, or jasmin.

The reason I like to use aromatic oil is threefold, I like the smell, I don't want to insult any presence that might be in the blade (just because I cannot detect a presence doesn't mean that there is none), and lastly:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

[shadejoy]

Pande Made Gede Suardika is a known keris-smith, he would be about 50 years old now. He is located in Den Pasar.

His work is known as being quite heavy, his garap is known as being detailed & neat. His pamor is known as being well managed, but he specialises in pamor mlumah, not pamor miring. I have never heard of him making pamor miring.

I am quite surprised that he was able to produce this very complex pamor miring back in 2014. It would seem that in spite of him being so well known he is inclined to hide his light under a bushel.

@A.G. Maisey, I wasn't aware of his specialty. In fact I had never seen his prior work. It does sound like you know more about Bli Pande than I do. If anything, it shows how vast your network/connection is in Nusantara, which is not limited to Java..

I only knew Bli Pande based on articles and that he was well-known for producing pusaka rather than commercial. He did ask me about the purpose and intentions of getting the Keris. The Keris that he made for me was obviously not intended for temples therefore it was treated differently. But still followed Balinese cultural and traditions like picking the best day, offerings, rituals etc. I intend to keep my Keris as family heirloom which was probably why he accepted my order.

Noted on the silver foam and the pre-cleaning. I only will use it on the wide smooth surface area of the pendok. I will use the cloth for any silver carvings.

@Bob A Thank you for sharing. Interesting product albeit the mild odor. I want to say that although I'm a bit skeptical about the presence of other being resided in an object but I do keep my mixture of odorless gun oil (85%) with Cananga (10%) and Jasmine oil (5%). As @A.G. Maisey suggested, ..it's tradition.

Though I part way with tradition of annual cleaning and jamasan. It is my understanding that warangan and its process eat away ferric. It's acidic. So I tend to limit the procedure, only as needed or none at all if possible. Which led me to an idea of separating the wilah, by itself ,and store it in a vacuum-sealed bag after oiling for longer preservation.

[Jean]

Pande Made Gede Suardika is a known keris-smith, he would be about 50 years old now. He is located in Den Pasar.

His work is known as being quite heavy, his garap is known as being detailed & neat. His pamor is known as being well managed, but he specialises in pamor mlumah, not pamor miring. I have never heard of him making pamor miring.

I am quite surprised that he was able to produce this very complex pamor miring back in 2014. It would seem that in spite of him being so well known he is inclined to hide his light under a bushel.

I agree with Alan, this pamor pattern does not look balinese at all :confused:

[David]

To be honest with you, the search function isn't what I would like it to be. But in my opinion it isn't a technical issue. Rather, it's the nature of this forum, the discussions themselves. What I'm looking for, e.g. Keris maintenance, is discussed under multiple threads with various subject lines that are seemingly unrelated to Keris maintenance. For example, the original thread may have been about Keris hilt or showcasing personal Keris but then the conversation evolves around how to clean or preserving it. I totally understand, it's how discussion works. We want to keep the flow although often times it develops into a bigger scope. That is why I think the search function is what it is and we may want to take a few different approaches using different key words. It seems like tags are few and far between.

So I totally understand where you're coming from, @David and @Rich.
As newbie, I'll take what I can get. I have nothing but high regards for this forum and its contribution to one of Indonesia's cultural heritages.

Cheers!
hmmm...i am not sure exactly what you would like it to be. Are you using the basic single window search, or have you used the drop down window to find the "Advanced Search". The more specific your search key words, the more specific your results will be. You can also search for exact phrasing by placing quotation marks (" ") around your phrase. This might eliminate hits that don't quite match up with your desired search as it will only lead to uses of those exact phrases rather than the individual words as the search otherwise responds to threads that contain the keywords used regardless of what order the words appear in. But ultimately, even if you are led to threads that are mostly discussing other subjects than the one your were searching for, you will be enriching yourself with other keris information. The keris cannot be understood in a vacuum; the more you read the better informed you will become. ;)

[shadejoy]

hmmm...i am not sure exactly what you would like it to be. Are you using the basic single window search, or have you used the drop down window to find the "Advanced Search". The more specific your search key words, the more specific your results will be. You can also search for exact phrasing by placing quotation marks (" ") around your phrase. This might eliminate hits that don't quite match up with your desired search as it will only lead to uses of those exact phrases rather than the individual words as the search otherwise responds to threads that contain the keywords used regardless of what order the words appear in. But ultimately, even if you are led to threads that are mostly discussing other subjects than the one your were searching for, you will be enriching yourself with other keris information. The keris cannot be understood in a vacuum; the more you read the better informed you will become. ;)

I hope you don't misconstrue this as an attack ..or even a demand, it is not.

You're right, I use the basic search. I also try the advanced search and it does somewhat limit the results. I did not know before about the phrase search using double quotation. That is a great tip!

I would use the same "Keris Maintenance" as an example and using basic simple window search, advanced search and quotations. I've found that all of these methods still yield seemingly unrelated to Keris maintenance thread names. As I've mentioned before, it is to be expected. I don't think it's a technical faulty of the search engine, it does what it was designed for. It's just the nature of the discussions.

For a total newbie they might think that they didn't find what they were looking for. When in reality it is in there. You have valid argument about enriching ourselves during the search process and they are fascinating and very interesting! When I press search on Keris maintenance ..among the results, there I see a thread called The Flying Keris. Now who wouldn't be interested in knowing more about the flying Keris. I'm not being sarcastic and I did read the entire thread because it's mighty intriguing. So again, you do have a valid argument.

But for some people, that can be perceived as noise. Moreover, these seemingly threads may also only contain bits and pieces of what we're looking for. It's like going to a library or book store. You find individual countries mentioned in all books about romances, great battles, iconic characters, action scenes and riveting anecdotes. They are captivating. However ..my purpose is only to find a list of countries in the world.

My point of view is similar to A. G. Maisey's, a place for everything and everything in its place, that it would be ideal to have some kind of index for generic most common questions. Just for the most frequently asked questions. I think Keris cleaning & maintenance easily falls under the category.

I do recognize that there are limitations, as all things in this world. We can always find things eventually if we have enough determination. The last thing I want is to impose on anybody's valuable time which I'm sure is a shared belief of all members in this forum.

Respectfully.

[David]

No worries Shadejoy, i don't feel attacked in the least.
I will say though, that collecting and correlating all the information you seek and organizing it in an index for easy access in order to save members some time and effort by bringing them directly to the exact tidbit of information they are seeking would be an enormous task to undertake. While you and other members might enjoy the results of such an effort i do not really feel that i would personally enjoy the task. After all, this is not a paying job and my time is valuable as well. LOL! ;)
I also might suggest that you spend a little more time trying to figure out how the search engine works to help you pinpoint your searches so that you can avoid having to read through aspects of threads you have no interest in. Are you aware, for instance, that when you use the basic search you have the ability to focus your results to "Show Thread" or "Show Post". If you choose "Show Post" you will only get the post where your keyword shows up in your results, thereby avoiding having to read the entire "Flying Keris" thread in order to find the part about keris maintenance that might have been posted somewhere in there. You can do the same in the Advanced Search as well as search for just responses from particular members or only specific dates and/or forums, etc.
I will add that no one taught me these things. I learned them by opening up the search and messing around to find out how i can get more specific and efficient results from the program.
I hope that you don't perceive this as an attack or me being too harsh, but i don't really have the time to serve up on a silver plate all the precise tidbits of specific and varied information that each and every member here might be seeking at any given time. We have a pretty vast archive here after so many years of discussion and while everything there is to know about keris certainly isn't in there you will find that there is quite a bit of combined knowledge and imagery to be found in our archive. It doesn't cost you a penny. But it will cost you a bit of your own time and effort.

[shadejoy]

No worries Shadejoy, i don't feel attacked in the least.
I will say though, that collecting and correlating all the information you seek and organizing it in an index for easy access in order to save members some time and effort by bringing them directly to the exact tidbit of information they are seeking would be an enormous task to undertake. While you and other members might enjoy the results of such an effort i do not really feel that i would personally enjoy the task. After all, this is not a paying job and my time is valuable as well. LOL! ;)
I also might suggest that you spend a little more time trying to figure out how the search engine works to help you pinpoint your searches so that you can avoid having to read through aspects of threads you have no interest in. Are you aware, for instance, that when you use the basic search you have the ability to focus your results to "Show Thread" or "Show Post". If you choose "Show Post" you will only get the post where your keyword shows up in your results, thereby avoiding having to read the entire "Flying Keris" thread in order to find the part about keris maintenance that might have been posted somewhere in there. You can do the same in the Advanced Search as well as search for just responses from particular members or only specific dates and/or forums, etc.
I will add that no one taught me these things. I learned them by opening up the search and messing around to find out how i can get more specific and efficient results from the program.
I hope that you don't perceive this as an attack or me being too harsh, but i don't really have the time to serve up on a silver plate all the precise tidbits of specific and varied information that each and every member here might be seeking at any given time. We have a pretty vast archive here after so many years of discussion and while everything there is to know about keris certainly isn't in there you will find that there is quite a bit of combined knowledge and imagery to be found in our archive. It doesn't cost you a penny. But it will cost you a bit of your own time and effort.

@David, Perfectly understood and thank you for the pointers, I appreciate it very much.