Help with yatagans' inscriptions

[TVV]

A friend of mine from Bulgaria has several yatagans and he would love to learn what the transcriptions on them mean. Can anyone help, I would really appreciate it?
Thank you very much,
Teodor

Pictures of first yatagan attached

[TVV]

Second yatagan, and a stamp from the third yatagan.

[Battara]

W :eek: W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword! :D

[TVV]

And the inscription on the 4th piece, followed by pictures of the yatagans.

[TVV]

W :eek: W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword! :D

I am not sure Jose, I think this pattern is referred to as Turksih Ribbon. Whatever the case, it certainly took a skillfull smith to produce this lovely blade, and hopefully we may learn his name if the inscription is translated.
Regards,
Teodor

[Battara]

The second one with walrus ivory looks Balkan by the ear profile.

[TVV]

They are all Balkan, collected in Bulgaria, with details such as villages where these were found available for a few of them. Of course, they could have travelled from one place to another in the past, but I Believe they were all made in the Balkans. Based on examples, walrus hilted yatagans are generally from the Western Balkans, such as Bosnia, and in the Eastern Balkans the hilts are mostly from dark horn - predominantly cow or buffalo, although on one of the examples pictured, which has the smallest ears, the hilt is made of rhino horn.

[Flavio]

Hello Teodor, could you post some pictures of the rhino horn handle? Thank you :)

[TVV]

Hello Teodor, could you post some pictures of the rhino horn handle? Thank you :)

This is the only picture I currently have.

[Rick]

All those blades are of Turkish Ribbon pattern; are they not ? :)

[TVV]

All those blades are of Turkish Ribbon pattern; are they not ? :)

Yes Rick, they are, or at least this is what they appear to be to my eye based on the pictures. It appears this pattern was quite popular on yatagans, which is not so surprising.
Regards,
Teodor

[TVV]

With the hope of bumping this thread up in search of translations, here are two Kamas from the Caucasus, also found in Bulgaria, for comments. One of them has an inscription, and the other one a maker's mark with some writing inside. Can anyone read and translate them?
Thanks,
Teodor

[rand]

There is a Russian Book with quite a few inscriptions on yataghans translated, but you need to speak Russian. There are also French articles of yataghan translations. I have heard a couple of the Russian book may be printed in English soon.

Always enjoy seeing a coretwist balde...

rand

[TVV]

Thanks Rand,

I do read Russian (which is different from speaking it) without problems. Which books is it - Astvatsaturian's "Турецкое Оружие"? I did not get it when I should have and I am afraid it is out of print now.

Regards,
Teodor

[rand]

Would like to point out the use of a retangular punch in a series of over lapping punches used to form the channel for the silver to be inlaid in the first yataghan posted in this thread. You can clearly see the retangular punch marks where the silver is now absent.

Thanks very much for posting these photo's,

rand

[Richard Furrer]

W :eek: W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword! :D

I count five on the upper and six on the next sword with a back and edge welded on as well.

Ric

[TVV]

I am afraid my friend has developped an addiction to damascus yatagans now and he is on a quest to acquire them all. Here is his latest acquisition and I believe this time the yatagan originates from Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans. Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation - I have not lost hope yet.
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi,
The inscription is "amel-e elhac mustafa, sahib ahmed aga" [made by mustafa the pilgrim, owner ahmed aga]

the date is partly erased, I could only make out the number "88" at the very end, and it's probably 1288 hejira= 1871-1872

[Zifir]

This one is "tevekkeltüa'l-llah" [I put my trust on Allah]
The date is 1265 hejira = 1848-1849

The picture of the stamp is too small for me to make out the name, but it's clearly amel-e .......(Melik maybe). A bigger picture might help.

[TVV]

Zifir,
Thank you very much Sir, especially as this is not the first time you have helped me with translations. I will pass this info to my friend, who I am sure will also be very grateful. For me personally the fun of collecting historical weapons lies in learning as much about them and their history as possible, and putting a name to a sword or dagger greatly increases its sentimental value. Once again, thank you.
Teodor

[TVV]

Here is another nice yatagan of graceful proportions. The blade is not damascus, but there are inscriptions in silver. As always, I would be very grateful to whoever helps translating them.
Regards,
Teodor

[TVV]

And yet another yatagan, very similar to the previous one I posted in this thread in terms of style, blade decoration and hilt fittings. The band on the hilt and the bolster are almost identical. Can someone please help with translation? I am particularly interested in the names of the makers, as I wonder if these two yatagans could have been made by the same bladesmith.
Thank you very much,
Teodor

[Dom]

sorry, because if arabic alphabet,
seems not be arabic language :shrug:
Turkish ? Farsi ? :confused:

à +

Dom

[Dom]

translation
1266 Hegire = 1849 Gregorian

à +

Dom

[Dom]

Translation:
"done by Ibrahim Sa'heb
I go with God blessing"

à +

Dom

[Dom]

Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation Teodor
Hi Teodor
sorry, but even don't seems to be arabic :shrug:


à +

Dom

attached; one pic of a series from 3

[Dom]

Hi Teodor

translation of the upper part of the cartouche;
" 137 (then) I go with God blessing"
no way to found the sense of the lower part, sorry

à +

Dom

[TVV]

Dom,

Thank you very much, this is extremely helpful! I think the inscriptions are in Turkish, not Arabic. To me the date on the blade with the gold inscriptions looks like 127? instead of 137?. 137? would place it in the middle of last century, which is a bit too late, while 127? makes perfect sense.
However, by translating "I go with God's blessing" on both of these blades, you have increased the suspicion that these may have been made in the same workshop. If indeed the date on the longer yatagan is 137(1?) that would place it within 5 years of the other one. No conclusive proof yet, but getting closer.

Teodor

[Zifir]

It took me some time to recognize this formula. Finally thanks to a better script I was able to read it in another post.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5889

The inscription is:
Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir

These are the names of Eshab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog.

[Zifir]

My reading is 1127 / 1715, instead of 127?. In some official and legal documents, I came across the cases when they just wrote the last three digits. But I am not sure about this one.

The last row is:

Sahib Mustafa Aga (owner Mustafa Agha)

Dom,

Thank you very much, this is extremely helpful! I think the inscriptions are in Turkish, not Arabic. To me the date on the blade with the gold inscriptions looks like 127? instead of 137?. 137? would place it in the middle of last century, which is a bit too late, while 127? makes perfect sense.
However, by translating "I go with God's blessing" on both of these blades, you have increased the suspicion that these may have been made in the same workshop. If indeed the date on the longer yatagan is 137(1?) that would place it within 5 years of the other one. No conclusive proof yet, but getting closer.

Teodor

[TVV]

Zifir, tahnk you very much Sir!
I think your suggestion regarding the date makes a lot of sense. My friend will be happy with an early yatagan, but from what I have seen (and I have only seen pictures), I doubt this yatagan is 18th century.
Best regards,
Teodor

[TVV]

Zifir, Dom and others who can read Arabic, can you please help with the inscriptions on this yataghan?

Thank you very much in advance,

Teodor

[TVV]

Here is another yataghan with nice inscitpions from Bulgaria - can anyone help translate them?

Many thanks in advance,
Teodor

[Dom]

Hi Teo

except a date, 1288 (1871 gregorian calendar)
and a sentence; la fatha ela Ali, la Saïf ela Zulfakar
no boy than Ali, no sword than Zulfakar

not possibilty to translate the others inscriptions, from Arab to an another language,
because, it's what ever you want excepted arabic language :p

à +

Dom

[TVV]

Thank you very much Dom,

I guess the top row is most likely in Turkish.

Regards,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi,
The first one is:

Amel-i Şerif Sahib Osman Ağazade Abdülcemil

Work of Şerif, Owner Abdülcemil, son of Osman Agha

The first line of the second script was difficult to give meaning for me although there is no difficulty in reading it.

Kendi nutk-ı pakdır nutk eyleyen Perverdegar


(My somehow nonsensical translation is: He himself is a well spoken word since it is Allah who make him speak. Some Sufi references here that I am not familiar)

that's best I can :(

[TVV]

Zifir,

Thank you very much, I really appreciate your translation.
The line with the Sufi reference is especially intriguing, and since almost all inscriptions had an important, almost talismanic meaning to the original owners of these blades, I wonder how it should be interpreted.

Best regards,
Teodor

[TVV]

Here is a yataghan recently found in Bulgaria - 96 cm long, which is not common, with a Balkan hilt and likely an Anatolian blade, with interesting inscriptions in 3 circles on one side. Can someone translate the inscriptions? I think I see a date 1260, or 1844 in Gregorian.

Thank you very much!
Teodor

[Dom]

Can someone translate the inscriptions? I think I see a date 1260, or 1844 in Gregorian.Hi Teodor
quality of pic .. :rolleyes:
- too far, please use "focus" fonction
- about the date, I agree with you 1260 H. (Persian writting)

à +

Dom

[TVV]

Hi Teodor
quality of pic .. :rolleyes:
- too far, please use "focus" fonction
- about the date, I agree with you 1260 H. (Persian writting)

à +

Dom

Dom,

Thank you for the quick response. The yataghan is located half the world away from me and neither it, nor the pictures are mine - I posted it here at the request of its owner. I will see what I can do.

Teodor

[TVV]

Ok, some more pictures of the inscriptions on this yataghan. The more I look into these, the less sure I am they are legible, but I would appreciate if anyone gives it a try.

Again, thank you in advance.

Teodor

[ariel]

Teodor,
I really enjoyed this thread . Thank you and the rest of the gang for posting them.
Regarding yours with the rhino handle.
There is a cavity between the cheeks. I do not think I have seen such a completely "disassembled" handle before. Anybody knows whether this space in yataghans in general was filled with some kind of putty or was the handle hollow inside and kept by rivets only? Of course, they all had some kind of metal ribbon around the entire handle.

[Gavin Nugent]

Teodor,
I really enjoyed this thread . Thank you and the rest of the gang for posting them.
Regarding yours with the rhino handle.
There is a cavity between the cheeks. I do not think I have seen such a completely "disassembled" handle before. Anybody knows whether this space in yataghans in general was filled with some kind of putty or was the handle hollow inside and kept by rivets only? Of course, they all had some kind of metal ribbon around the entire handle.

I have had two Yats with portions of the grip strap missing and neither of them were filled, just the rivets holding the slabs against the strapping....the kilij seen here;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13639

Also has a grip strap that requires attaching to the top and bottom near the guard and it too is not filled in completely, just appears that what has oozed past the tang during original application has fallen in the gap....perhaps a standard Turkish method of manufacture.

[TVV]

Thank you Ariel. I believe Gav is correct - usual hilt construction on yataghans, including those with metal hilts is that the scales are not glued to the tang, but are held by rivets only, and this hollow space is covered by the metal band in the middle of the hilt. There are probably exceptions, but the majority of the damaged hilts I have seen follow this method of attachment.

My guess is that this was done to preserve scarce hilt material, such as walrus ivory, and to create an illusion that the scales were carved out of a giant piece of ivory or horn.

Regards,
Teodor

[Dom]

Ok, some more pictures of the inscriptions on this yataghan. The more I look into these, the less sure I am they are legible, but I would appreciate if anyone gives it a try.

Again, thank you in advance.

TeodorHi Teodor
Tks for pic's, they are exploitables, and at first view, could be possible to get something, at least ... some ;)
just need few time, we'll be absent until May 2nd, be patient and optimistic :p

à +

Dom

just a taste .... :p

SANA 1290 either YEAR 1873

Cheers

[TVV]

Thank you Dom, I promise to stay patient and optimistic.
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi,
I could only read this part, but I am very curious about the circles. This is the first time I see such circles on a yatağan. Although I cannot read it, there are arabic letters and symbols inside the circles which I am not very familiar. Also if I remember correctly, I have seen the symbol, in which amel-i Halil is written, in elsewhere and somebody claimed it to be a Bektashi symbol.

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir,

This is very helpful. I have also seen the symbol one other yataghan blades, even though it is not a very common one. I did not know of its significance by now though. I gues if it is indeed a Bektashi symbol, this would simply mean that the owner or the maker (Halil) has some sort of a Janissary connection.

Hopefully, we will be able to learn more about the circles at some point.

Regards,
Teodor

[Dom]

hi
as well as Zifir, we cannot read it, the arabic letters and symbols inside the circles. :shrug:
precision might be bring:
- AMEL means => the blacksmith
- SAHAB (SAHEB) means => the owner

on the pic jointed, has been translated
HUSSAIN SAHAB either OWNER HUSSAIN
very sorry to don't be more efficient :o

à +

Dom

[TVV]

Thank you Dom, I appreciate it.

The circles are quite unique, but maybe they exist on another blade, in a more legible form. If such a blade surfaces at some point in the future, it may help with the translation of this one. Or at least this is all we can hope for.

Thanks again Dom and Zifir for your help.

Teodor

[TVV]

My Bulgarian friend, who collects yataghans, has asked me to post three of his latest acquisitions here with the hope of getting the blade inscriptions translated.
Many thanks in advance,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi Teodor,
Pretty standard inscriptions, accompanied by my haphazard translations :D

Best,

[TVV]

Zifir, thank you very much, excellent as always. I really appreciate the effort you have put in placing the translation text on the pictures: this thread is slowly becoming a database of inscriptions.
Regards,
Teodor

[David R]

Perhaps I should post my Yataghan here as well, to make it a one stop archive. My apologies if this is redundant, If I had seen this thread earlier I would have posted here only. The buffalo horn grip scales are a replacement made by me in a style I am familiar with from a yataghan I owned some years ago. The originals were gone, and had been replaced with painted plaster.

[TVV]

Here is yet another yataghan blade insription for translation, many thanks in advance.
Teodor

[TVV]

While waiting for th translation on the rpevious one, here is another yataghan with a similar in style (as far as it is applied to the blade) inscription.

Thank you in advance,
Teodor

[TVV]

Hopefully Zifir or someone else will be able to help with the inscriptions from my previous two posts. In the meantime, I am going to add another yataghan with an inscription that needs translation t the archive in this thread.

Thank you,
Teodor

[Dom]

Hopefully Zifir or someone else will be able to help with the inscriptions from my previous two posts. Hi Teodor
unfortunately, it's only Zifir who is able to translate the Turkish "ancient"
Zifir is a professor in university,
they are may be in examinations period ?
also be patient and keep fingers crossed :p

à +

Dom

[TVV]

Thank you for responding Dom,
I am grateful for all the help that Zifir and the other translators, like your spouse, have provided in this forum. These inscriptions have remained on the blades for centuries and will be there for many more years, so there is no particular hurry. I am sure that when Zifi comes by the forum, he will look at them. In the meantime, I am simply adding further examples to this thread as they come up.
Teodor

[TVV]

Here are three photos of inscriptions and a maker's mark on yataghan blades. I received them from a friend in Bulgaria with a plea for translation. I apologize for not having photos of the entire yataghans: I am trying to obtain those shots. However, in light of contributing so many yataghans to this forum, I hope that I may be granted an exception in this case from our gracious translators.

As always, all help in translating these inscriptions and marks is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Teodor

[TVV]

I received pistures of the whole items and it turns out only one of them is a yataghan, the others are small knives, which I believe are modern replicas from India. Still, I would appreciate a translation just to know if these knives actually copy old inscriptions, or if their creators simply apply some jibberish.

I do not believe the Sumatran pedang has an inscription, but I am including it just in case, since it came with the rest of the pictures.

Thank you,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Teodor, it seems I missed many posts in this thread. I will try to make it up.
The inscriptions in post # 60 seemed problematic at the first sight, the first one and the maker's seal in the last picture make some sense and are somehow readable, but the second one is jibberish. I think the longer it gets, the more difficult to imitate.




Post # 55)

Amel-i Osman Sahib ü Malik İbrahim Ağa
Ya Hafiyyü'l-eltaf neccina mimma nehaf Sene 1271

Work of Osman, Owner İbrahim Agha
O God, whose bounties are hidden, deliver us from the ones we fear Year 1854/55

Bu bıçağı kıl mübarek ey Kerim la-yezal
Sahibine verme ya Rab ömrü oldukça zeval

O God, the most generous and everlasting, make this knife blessed
Don't let any harm come to the owner of this knife in his life

Post # 56)

Ey gönül bir can içün her cana minnet eyleme
İşret-i dünya içün sultana minnet eyleme

Oh heart do not abase yourself to everyone just for a life
Do not abase yourself to the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life

Amel Elhac Ahmed Sahib Osman Sene 1275
Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindir Ahmed

Work of Elhac Ahmed, Owner Osman, Year 1858/59
O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of Ahmed who is one of your followers


Post # 57)

Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindir
Amel-i Şerif Sahib Eyyüb? sene 1241

O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of...
Work of Şerif, Owner Eyyüb, Year 1825/26


Post # 60

1) Amel-i Yunus 1209 (Work of Yunus, Year 1794/95)


3) Amel-i Muhammed (Work of Muhammed)

[ariel]

The one with the T-handle is a Zeibek one, IMHO.
http://www.timsah.com/Zeybek-Dance-COKERTME/nTVV0PBAXku

[TVV]

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the translations. The yataghans in posts 55 & 56 were similar in terms of their decoration, and were made in a span of 4 years, but as we now know thanks to your translation, by different smiths. Also, thank you for cinfirming my suspicions about the inscripions on the modern Indian daggers: it must indeed be difficult for contemporary kotgari artists to copy old inscriptions.

Ariel, good observation on the T-shaped hilt. I have always assumed that it is an Anatolian feature, but now you have linked it more specifically to the southern parts of Asia Minor, facing the Aegean. I am sure that period photos, if any come up, will further confirm this. I am assuming you were referring to the yataghan in post 17, since it is the only one in this thread with this type of hilt.

Many thanks to everyone again,
Teodor

[TVV]

Here is another one for translation, many thanks in advance to Ziir or anyone else who attempt to unlock the meaning of the inscriptions.

Teodor

[TVV]

Better pictures uploaded.

[Zifir]

Teodor,
Translation as promised and sorry for the delay.

Best,

[TVV]

Zifir, thank you very much! Interesting inscription. On the second picture, which word means sword, as I do not see kilic anywhere?

Teodor

[Zifir]

The Ottoman word is "tiğ-ı teber" which I translated as sword. "Tiğ" or "tegh" is a Persian word for sword, much used by the Ottomans especially in poems. "Teber" or "tabar" is also a Persian word meaning "axe" or "axe shaped". The combination of these two is a curious one, probably an Ottoman literary invention, I translate it literally as "naked sword" but in the text I used sword instead. If there is anyone whose native language is Persian in the forum, I would also like to hear their opinion.

Best,

[TVV]

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the explanation.

Teodor

[TVV]

I have received pictures of one more yataghan. Can you please help translate the inscriptions?

Thank you,
Teodor

[drac2k]

After viewing all of the beautiful yataghans, I apologize in advance for hitching a ride on this thread ;I know that this is a site for ethnographic weapons, but after all this is a yataghan (kinda of).
I was wondering if the gold inscription on the blade has any meaning or is merely put there for the consumption of the Nato troops, making an Enfield bayonet fetch more money.

[TVV]

Zifir,

When you read this thread, can you also translate these Ottoman seals?

Thank you,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi Teodor,
You can find translations in the attachments.
Regards,

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir, you are a priceless asset to this forum.

Teodor

[TVV]

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

[AhmedH]

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

Salaams Teodor,

In the second photo, the writing is in Turkish, but I could understand from the second line the following inscription:

عمل عثمان صاحب علي

Translation: Made by Othman, the owner is Ali.

Also, the date is 1231 AH...which corresponds to 1815 C.E.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[AhmedH]

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

As for the third photo:

The inscription reads:

عمل محمود صاحب حسن أغا سنة 1280

Translation: "Made by Mahmoud [for the] owner [who] is Hassan Agha in the year 1280 AH [which corresponds to 1862 or 1863 CE]".

Note: All other inscriptions are not in Arabic, and therefore are NOT Qur'anic.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[TVV]

Ahmed,

Thank you very much!

Teodor

[Zifir]

Turkish part of the inscription - though I am not sure about the last word. And my translation to English is as close as possible to Turkish meaning.
Best,



Salaams Teodor,

In the second photo, the writing is in Turkish, but I could understand from the second line the following inscription:

عمل عثمان صاحب علي

Translation: Made by Othman, the owner is Ali.

Also, the date is 1231 AH...which corresponds to 1815 C.E.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir, much appreciated.

Teodor

[Zifir]

Again the Turkish parts. By the way Teodor, these inscriptions are very interesting, I have not seen similar ones until now. The second one is little bit heavy metallish though :D


As for the third photo:

The inscription reads:

عمل محمود صاحب حسن أغا سنة 1280

Translation: "Made by Mahmoud [for the] owner [who] is Hassan Agha in the year 1280 AH [which corresponds to 1862 or 1863 CE]".

Note: All other inscriptions are not in Arabic, and therefore are NOT Qur'anic.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[TVV]

Thank you Zifir, glad to have finally posted an unusual inscription. Very threatening and bloodthirsty indeed.

Teodor

[TVV]

I just acquired this yataghan. Not much in the way of inscriptions, but would still really appreciate a translation, if possible.

Thank you in advance,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi,

Amel-i Abdi, Sahib Memiş Ağa / Work of Abdi, Owner Memiş Agha

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir, we are so lucky to have your help with these inscriptions. To the left of the maker's name, there is something that looks like a date, but I cannot make it out - does it make any sense to you? Reading the date may be important, because there was a Memis Agha who rose to prominence in the Trabzon and Surmene area in the end of the 18th century, early 19th century (when most of the yataghans with similar Foca silver hilts are usually dated based on similar examples).

Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi Teodor,
I could not see any date there. Are you by any chance referring to the letter "Y/İ" ى at the top of the maker's name? If so, that's just a stylistic writing of the name ABDİ with (Y/İ) at the top.

Best,

[TVV]

Hi Teodor,
I could not see any date there. Are you by any chance referring to the letter "Y/İ" ى at the top of the maker's name? If so, that's just a stylistic writing of the name ABDİ with (Y/İ) at the top.

Best,

Thank you Zifir, yes, this is exactly what I was confusing with a date. Still, Memish Agha is at least in my experience an uncommon name and there is a good chance that this yataghan may have indeed been made for Memish Agha from Rize, who appears to have led a small unsuccessful uprising around Trabzon in 1814-1817.

Regards,
Teodor

[Sancar]

Memiş is just a short form for Mehmet (kinda like Charles-Charlie or Francis-Frank) and it is quite common in rural Anatolia.

[TVV]

Memiş is just a short form for Mehmet (kinda like Charles-Charlie or Francis-Frank) and it is quite common in rural Anatolia.

Thanks for the clarification,

Teodor

[TVV]

This yataghan was donated to a history museum in Bulgaria. Since the blade has extensive inscriptions, I thought it would be a good idea to add it to this thread, and I have permission to do so.

Many thanks in advance to those, who can provide a translation,

Teodor

[TVV]

Here is another yataghan from a collection in Bulgaria, with somewhat extensive inscriptions. A translation would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Teodor