Looks like a good one?

[Tim Simmons]

Somebody got a good buy? They could have made bit of a gamble. I do not know much about these but it looks okay. :shrug:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280121848546

[Flavio]

Hey Tim, you're a lucky boy :D Looks good and I think is good !!! Congrats

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks Flavio. I think a small piece of the hilt is missing but at the price I suppose I can live with it.

[Flavio]

Yes Tim, maybe a little piece is missing, what a shame!!!! How you can live with this!!!!! Noooo for sure you can't, so send to me the kris :D :D :D More, this one is not african sooooo..... you already have my address ;)

[Battara]

Nice solid Moro kris, possible Maguindanao (need to double check on that).

[Tim Simmons]

I did take a bit of a gamble on the sellers pics but it has all turned out fine. I am not familiar with these weapons. This is very interesting, the quality and lightness reminds me of some of the best African work. I would say it handles much better than the best African sword like weapons. I can see that there is a forge pattern in the blade. There is a curious forge welded right angle section at the base of the blade before the separate guard piece. It is all compete with no damage to the pommel which I thought was damaged. The scabbard is very interesting, made of two pieces of wood. One piece has the scabbard mouth carved as part of it. The other piece slots in, both pieces are fixed at the end by a horn ring and rattan binding. It seems to me a quality weapon and its plain appearance may reflect a more back woods origin? I think I can understand the hullabaloo about these weapons a little more.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Moro002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Moro005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Moro006.jpg

this mark {letters} is carved into the wood at the scabbard mouth.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Moro.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Moro004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Moro003.jpg

[Lew]

Tim

That is a nice find. The sword is an older example late 19th or early 20th century. Two piece ganja and old style steel baca baca.

Congrats

Lew

[kai]

Congrats, Tim, that's a really good first one!

I am not familiar with these weapons. This is very interesting, the quality and lightness reminds me of some of the best African work. I would say it handles much better than the best African sword like weapons.
Bait, hook, and line... ;)


I'd guess this originates from the 2nd half of the 19th century, maybe late 19th c. I'd be interested to hear wether Jose confirms his first impression of a Maguindanao origin. There seems to be a bit of Sulu influence, too.

BTW, the blade length of 22" is correct?


I can see that there is a forge pattern in the blade.
The blade would certainly benefit from a light etch with hot vinegar - this brings out the pattern quite nicely and is the traditional style rather than keeping the blade in high polish.

There is a curious forge welded right angle section at the base of the blade before the separate guard piece.
That's an old tang repair. I assume the other side looks alike?

It is all compete with no damage to the pommel which I thought was damaged.
I think there was an old damage to the top end of the pommel which has been polished out long, long ago. No problem, seems like several Moro generations lived happily with it. ;)

There certainly was a silver "ferrule" at the base of the hilt. The grip bindings have been redone (good quality), so it's possible that there was even a bit more silverwork to the hilt originally.

The elephant's face at the gangya seems to have been modified - probably the trunk got damaged and needed to be shortened.


The scabbard is very interesting, made of two pieces of wood. One piece has the scabbard mouth carved as part of it. The other piece slots in, both pieces are fixed at the end by a horn ring and rattan binding.
That's a construction not often seen. The scabbard seems to be of real age which is a rare sight these days. I really like it!

It seems to me a quality weapon and its plain appearance may reflect a more back woods origin?
I'd guess that the owner was a common warrior. Only Moro of higher status were allowed to wear more ornate kris.

I think I can understand the hullabaloo about these weapons a little more.
Bait, hook, and line... :p :D

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

this mark {letters} is carved into the wood at the scabbard mouth.
Very likely carved in by a former non-Moro owner - perhaps a soldier?

[Bill M]

Tim,

YOU ARE HOOKED!!! Yeah, swing that puppy (Albovias-ism :) ) around a while. You will be setting search eBay engines for more of 'em!

Email me.

[Tim Simmons]

Kai, the blade is 22" long and very fine. I have just had to spot some diluted PVA on the first cord knots near the blade as the cord there is showing signs of rot and two pieces have come apart. I think I have caught it in time. If I have to I will do the same all over the chords.

[Battara]

Nice puppy (thanks Bill :) )

Nice call Kai - I too think Maguindanao and late 19thc, although I will double check the "mouth" of the ganga just to make sure. I also think it is a battle kris and I agree that the silver ferrule is missing from the bottom. Repairs on the tangs were not unheard of at all - these were talked about on earlier posts.

All in all a nice piece (did I day puppy already? :D ).

[Tim Simmons]

Thank you for the very encouraging opinions. I do wonder on the tang repair? what ever it is it is really quite off centre, perhaps the tang does not go in the centre of the handle? I know I am new to these particular weapons but with respect, I am also unsure there was ever anything at the base of the handle. Here the rust on the clamps and most of all the patina of the wood from handling with no other ring marks seem to suggest it has been bare wood for some considerable time. Am I right in thinking that this weapon is wide spread including Moro land Philippines and Sulu Islands, parts of Borneo, and Malaya {Malaysia} The British had say in some of these areas. I know pieces do move around.

[kai]

Hello Tim,

I do wonder on the tang repair? what ever it is it is really quite off centre, perhaps the tang does not go in the centre of the handle?
The repair is pretty off centre and also shorter than I've seen before - one could guess that the tang wasn't completely broken. Short of x-raying your piece, you'll only know the construction for sure when you remove the hilt though (and you'd need to destroy the bindings to do so).

Here are 2 examples showing the usual repair method nicely:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=17312&postcount=14
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=9757&postcount=25

I know I am new to these particular weapons but with respect, I am also unsure there was ever anything at the base of the handle. Here the rust on the clamps and most of all the patina of the wood from handling with no other ring marks seem to suggest it has been bare wood for some considerable time.
Not necessarily: Often this was merely a thin sheet of silver rather than a sturdy ferrule.

Am I right in thinking that this weapon is wide spread including Moro land Philippines and Sulu Islands, parts of Borneo, and Malaya {Malaysia} The British had say in some of these areas. I know pieces do move around.
Your's is a fairly typical Moro example. These also show up from Malaysia and Indonesia, especially where seafaring Moro (mainly Tausug) had extensive trade contacts (including permanent settlements): Borneo, eastern Sumatra and the Malay Peninsula, especially the Straits area. Probably initially based on Moro designs, keris sundang were also produced locally in these areas but these tend to show deviating features.

Given the widespread collecting habits in the UK, this could have as likely originated from an US source rather than being acquired from areas formerly administrated by the British, I guess.

Regards,
Kai

[Tim Simmons]

I have to say they look pretty rough stuff compered to mine :o .

[kai]

Hello Tim,

I have to say they look pretty rough stuff compered to mine :o .
Keep in mind that these repairs are probably quite a bit older than that on your kris. I've seen quite a few more examples but would have a hard time to pull out the pics... Some of these are on par with yours but I can't remember any as short.

Regards,
Kai

[Rick]

Could it be that Tim's repair is due to a forging flaw and subsequent loss of material in that area?? :confused:

Is it the same on the other side of the blade Tim?

[Tim Simmons]

Yes it is the same on both sides. I am not sure what age has to do with rough work:shrug: