sudanese islamic dagger?

[kronckew]

hi y'all;

don't usually like african stuff (other than flyssa's, spears, assegai & knobkerries) but thought i''d gamble a small amt. on this one as i liked it & i won it for next to nothing. is it what it says it is? if so, my 1st sudanese one (had my eye on a shotel recently but it went over my budget)

Sudanese Rumbek Jur Scrimshaw Bone Knife (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=170098002283)

http://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/96/89/d86c_1.JPG

looks like a bit of cleanup and oiling in order on arrival.

[spiral]

Hi Kronkew, Yep thats a Sudanese dagger indeed, Congratulations!

The Rumbek Jur are a tribe, but I dont know whether this is there type of dagger, I expect one of the African collectors will know.


Spiral

[katana]

Hi Kronckew,
check this thread :)

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2843&highlight=triple

Regards David

[katana]

I am not so sure that these daggers originated with the Rumbek Jur .....these two knives have similarities to each other...but not to 'ours'

http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1930.86.11/

http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1930.86.12/

Kronckew, I have seen a number of these daggers (straight and curved) without a scabbard, and assumed that they were originally part of a 'set' (of 3)..yours is the first I have seen with its own sheath. (perhaps a later 'addition'... :shrug: )

[kronckew]

thanks, i seem to be getting into another interesting area of collecting here. i'll have to have a good look at the scabbard when it arrives. the photo i have is not the most informative, but i do not see any method of carry, belt loops or ring or any other, so it may have been a later one just to cover the blade for the last owner.

as it's the UK, i like to think that it came from the estate of a british soldier who picked it up from it's original owner who no longer needed it, on the omdurman plains outside khartoum on the 2nd of september 1898....Volley by Ranks........... (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/volley.wav)

[katana]

i like to think that it came from the estate of a british soldier who picked it up from it's original owner who no longer needed it, on the omdurman plains outside khartoum on the 2nd of september 1898....[

You.....and me , both ;) as (if proved) it would give provenance to my triple set :D I do know that the 'triple scabbard' was hung around the neck (with the sheath laying on the chest) or strapped to the top of the arm/ shoulder. If your scabbard is original...perhaps it was just placed under a belt/sash ...Arab style.

[kronckew]

... If your scabbard is original...perhaps it was just placed under a belt/sash ...Arab style.

knife arrived today and is soaking in oil to loosen some rust prior to a bit of brass wire-brushing.....

grip is very solid bone, blade fairly thin steel, etching or engraving in arabic appears well done with very smooth lettering edges unlike other etching i've seen, needs a bit of tlc to get rid of some rust. edge is not overly sharp but is not rounded either.

scabbard appears to be a thin wood core covered in a thin brown leather with a neatly sewn seam down one edge. leather continues partway into the scabbard throat and is a bit abraded. the sewing appears to be done in pink thread (maybe faded red?). the scabbard appears to be about a 1/4 in. shy of covering the entire blade. i suspect it's either shrunk or was not original to this dagger. there are no suspension points or signs that there ever were. photos to follow after i tidy it up a bit.

[kronckew]

couple of new pictures to go along with last post.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/kronckew/sudan001.jpg
obverse
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/kronckew/sudan003.jpg
i note that there is a substantial steel pommel on this which is peened on to (hopefully) the end of the through tang...