Stone club.

[Tim Simmons]

While out searching for an over looked treasure for just a few quid today, all I could really afford. I came across this, many, many times a few quid :eek: . It was either buy it or walk away. Well you can see what happened, I hope the poxy car behaves its self for a few months.

Length of flint head approx 18cm. Total length 48cm. Bark binding. Some worm hole damage to the halft. There is a twisted lanyard/loop of old telegraph? wire. The wire is a single steel wire covered in a machine woven flax/hemp like material. There are probably some wire freaks out there but are they watching? get a life!

The seller said it is Australian Aboriginal and came from a private collection in Lewes, don't they all :rolleyes: . It could be from the Northern Territories to PNG. I will add pics of similar things from the Torres Straits. Does anybody have pics of anything similar or other examples. yab a dabber do!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone009.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone010.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone012.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone004.jpg

[katana]

Certainly has rustic charm Tim, nicely organic ;) Are these bi-functional ie weapon and a tool ? The centre 'groove' in the stone head.....is it natural or man-made?

[Henk]

I must say Tim, that it looks very very nice to me. I think it is a nice find.

[FenrisWolf]

An aborigine stone club, eh? Does that make the correct war cry "Yabba-Dabba-Didgeri-Doo?" :D

Nice piece, not that familiar with Australian aborigine weapons (beyond the ubiquitous boomerang), but I seem to recall their tech level was still solidly in the Neolithic period, right?

[Flavio]

I seem to recall their tech level was still solidly in the Neolithic period, right?


More Upper Paleolithic! I think that the central groove is hand made. Verrrry nice!!!!

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks everyone. I have been thinking about this a little more and come up with some ideas.
I am not saying this is the reality to the clubs origins but it is interesting and feasible to me.
The stone is largely as found. There is evidence of a small amount of napping to enhance the natural shape. I am going to suggest that the stone was selected for its resemblance to a beak/birds head. Not sure if it is flint, the stones I see when walking my dogs looks similar but not quite the same. There is a sheen or patina to the club stone. Perhaps a very slight polishing through use?

Back to the bird head idea. These pictures come from the A.C. Haddon expedition collection at the British Museum. I also think it is reasonable to include islands such as New Britain and New Ireland. I am sure there would be something about the fellow "google". How widespread the obviously symbolic bird head thing is a do not know.
527 is 5cm shorter than the club stone and is listed as follows-
Bird, stone. biro-biro zogo or lewer zogo . Volcanic stone pecked and ground to represent the biro biro bird. This was kept at Kabur on Mer and used in magical procedures to ensure good yam crop.

626 is listed as a wood birds head club the rest of the information is just descriptive.

526 is very interesting as to me it is more abstract than the club stone and 527 in the representation of a birds head. The listing is the same as 527.

[fearn]

Interesting piece Tim!

I've got to admit some level of skepticism, though. Here's why:

"Primitive means first, not worst." That's a quote from the flintknapping/reconstructionist archeology crowd. The basic point is that, just because it's made out of stone, bark, and wood, it doesn't mean it should be sloppy or non functional.

This piece reminds me a bit of a stone club I made when I was a young kid, although admittedly it's better built. Basically, I'd believe it was genuine if it was solidly built, with a good swing (i.e. well weighted) and with a good striking surface or two. That rock head looks like it's pretty irregular for neolithic work. If it's good construction, then Tim can tell us. Otherwise, I start wondering if someone was having fun, or building something for the tourist market, perhaps.

If genuine, it could be from the Torres Strait Islands (which are granitic). There is appropriate rock in the vicinity for that head.

My 0.02 cents,

F

[Tim Simmons]

Sadly you are unable to appreciate the sublety in the clubs construction through the PC. There is a gentle curve in the halft that I am sure is the product of consideration and understanding to achieve a heavy secure practical and comfortable balanced weapon. I understand the need for knowledgeable and experienced criticism as you have eloquently proffered so well in the past. Perhaps other examples might come out of the wood work.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3654/is_199812/ai_n8824352

The trade in coastal flint from North Australia is well documented.

[inveterate]

I dont think this club is Australian Aboriginal. Cheers Rod

[Tim Simmons]

Give us a clue then Ron. I did say it may be from a vast area from Northern Territories to PNG and all surrounding islands.

[Tim Simmons]

Interesting pic. Ukandi boy making a stone club.
http://www.naa.gov.au/publications/research_guides/guides/png/illustrations.htm

More stuff about stone trade.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3654/is_199812/ai_n8824352/pg_4

[Tim Simmons]

It is then possible that a flint nodule like this may have travelled over 600km by canoe and how many km inland? So it may have been rather expensive in the local economy. Being a good shape for a club could make it more so. One reason not to smash it about too much. It may even have had a certain cult power for being so shaped. A lump of flint being so special might be hard for us to understand.

[katana]

Hi Tim,
the stone head seems to have little evidence of being 'worked'...which suggests that 'form' came before function. It appears that the club head was almost entirely formed by natural erosion by water and movement (rubbing against other rock fragments by water flow ...tides or fast flowing rivers for instance.)

Have you been able to ID the rock used ? Obviously this could help discover the possible region that it originated and the way it would have been worked.
There is the possibility that the head is very old, was 'lost' and subjected to natural erosion. Re-found, and as it had a 'natural hammer/club head' form was remounted on a shaft :shrug: The shaft seems to be 'mis-matched' with the head.....very egonomic with the slight curve...similar to late hatchet/small axe handles.
Flint as it is worked, flakes off leaving a facetted surface....however it is formed from molten lava and can form some very unusual organic shapes.....perhaps this club head was 'naturally formed and regarded by those that found it... to be a 'gift of the gods' and held in high esteem...it would also explain the lack of human intervention in its manufacture. :shrug:

[Tim Simmons]

That is a possibility and along the lines I have mentioned earlier. This is a close up of the knapped edge of the ridge. The over side is mainly formed by a natural fissure with one or to knapped parts. The other end a small lump has been knapped off to accommodate the handle. It is not the working of the stone that is the clever part here. It is the perception and execution of the whole thing to achieve a fine balance and functional fighting weapon. The look at one is glance decieving.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone018.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone019.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone020.jpg

[inveterate]

Tim, As a collector of Aussie Aboriginal Items (and a resident) I have never seen anything like this in any Australian Aboriginal collections or the literature on same. Cant speak for our Northern neighbors though. There are many Stone hafted Aboriginal Axes but none that resemble your item. A most unusual find. Rod

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks Rod I think so too. It is amazing to think people travelled such distances in canoes laden with flint stone from Australia. I believe the seas are shallow but that is not much help in a storm, you can drown in a tea cup, not to mention the sharks. I suppose you could island hop but you might not be friends with the nearest island. The whole thing is fasinating. :)

[Tim Simmons]

Considering the importance of club stone, it is possible that good stone by shape or number of kills :eek: May have been passed from one generation to the next. Like all weapons they hard and tough but also delicate when not used for there intended purpose.

[VANDOO]

A VERY INTERESTING ITEM AND IT DOES SHOW AGE. I WOULD ALSO AGREEE THAT THE STONE WAS SELCETED FOR USE WITH LITTLE MODIFICATION BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT HAD SIGNIFICENCE PERHAPS SEEN TO REPRESENT A POWERFUL ANIMAL TOTUM. I DOUBT THAT THE WORD TOTUM WOULD HAVE BEEN USED WHERE THIS WAS MADE BUT IT CONVEYS THE MEANING. THE SHAPES OF NATURAL ROCKS WERE CONSIDERED IMPORTANT TO MANY TRIBAL PEOPLES OVER THE WORLD. THE KUMBAINGERI ABORIGINALS IN N.S.W. MACLEAY RIVER AREA ASSOCIATED SHAPED STONES WITH TRIBAL MYTHS AND STORYS. I HAVE HAD NO LUCK GETTING A EXAMPLE OF A AUSTRALIAN AXE FOR INSPECTION AS I ALWAYS GET OUTBID AND I THINK PRICES HAVE NOW BEEN PUSHED UP ABOVE MY PRICE RANGE.
FROM WHAT I HAVE READ THEY USUALLY HAVE SOME NATURAL GUM RESIN ADHESIVE ON AUSTRALIAN EXAMPLES SO IF THAT IS PRESENT IT WOULD HELP PIN IT DOWN AT LEAST TO AUSTRALIA OR WHERE GUM TREES OR PRESENT WHICH STILL LEAVES A VERY LARGE AREA WITH MANY DIFFERENT TRIBES AND CUSTOMS. I AM ASSUMING THAT THE GUM COMES FROM ONE OF THE TYPES OF EUCULIPTUS TREES PRESENT IN THE AREA BUT NO LONGER REMBER WHERE I READ OR CAME UP WITH THAT BELIEF :shrug:

THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY IT MAY HAVE BEEN MADE BY SOMEONE FOR FUN USING OLD METHODS AND MATERIALS. THE BOY SCOUTS HAVE BOOKS WHICH GIVE DIRECTIONS ON HOW TO USLE OLD TRIBAL MATERIALS AND METHODS TO MAKE TOOLS AND WEAPONS WHILE THEY STUDY THE HISTORY AND BELIEFS OF THOSE TIMES AND TRIBES HERE IN THE USA. PERHAPS THAT HAS BEEN DONE AS WELL IN AUSTRALIA AND OF COURSE THE TRIBES HAVE MADE SOUVINEERS FOR QUITE A LONG TIME NOW SO THERE ARE EVEN VERY OLD EXAMPLES OF SOUVINEERS SOME OF WHICH ARE QUITE COLLECTABLE.

THERE IS A GOOD BASIC BOOK " AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL STONE IMPLEMENTS" BY F. D. McCARTHY IT IS NOT A COFFEE TABLE BOOK WITH PRETTY PICTURES BUT HAS GOOD DRAWING AND LOTS OF GOOD INFORMATION AND I THINK IS NOT AN EXPENSIVE BOOK. REGARDLESS OF THE ORIGIN OF YOUR CLUB I DO LIKE IT A LOT AND AM SURE I WOULD APPRECIATE IT BETTER IF I HAD IT IN HAND. I THINK IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A LIZZARD OR THAT SMALL BUG EYED FISH THAT COMES OUT ON LAND THE MUDSKIPPER, PERHAPS ONE EYE HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF WITH USE. NICE FIND :D

[VANDOO]

I WILL TRY TO SEND A FEW PICTURES IF THEY GO THRU. ALL THREE ARE SAID TO BE AUSTRALIAN.

[Tim Simmons]

Scouting for boys, don't make me laugh :D :D .
I like those Aus aboriginal clubs and axes. There is no gum on my club. I do not think it is possible to really understand it unless it is in your hand. It is a mans weapon and I would imagine a Mr Big type fellow. You must have big scouts in the USA.

[inveterate]

Andrew, the "Gum" is from the Spinifix plant, a grass, and is Resin. Cheers Rod

[VANDOO]

ITS GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE GUM IS MADE OF I KNEW SPINIFEX WAS A GRASS BUT HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD GET RESIN FROM IT. I HAD HEARD SOME TREES CALLED GUM TREES SO I GUESS I GOT THE WRONG IDEA FROM ASSOCIATION. :rolleyes: OH WELL I NEVER CLAIM TO BE ALL KNOWING OR PERFECT AND WOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING AT ALL IF I WAS WORRIED ABOUT BEING WRONG. :D

I AM NOT SUGGESTING THE CLUB BEING DISCUSSED IS A BOY SCOUT PROJECT. BUT THE BOWS ,CLUBS, LANCES, SLINGS,SPEARS AND OTHER THINGS WE MADE IN THE SCOUTS WERE MADE OF THE PROPER MATERIALS USING THE OLD TRIBAL TECKNIQUES AND WERE ALL WORKING WEAPONS WITH THE APPROPRIATE DECORATIONS AND MARKINGS. BEING YOUNG BOYS OF COURSE WE USED THEM ROUGHLY UNTIL MOST WERE DAMMAGED OR DESTROYED THERE WERE A FEW INJURYS A BROKEN COLLAR BONE WAS THE MOST SERIOUS IN OUR TROOP. WE EVEN MADE OUR PAINTS USING NATURAL PIGMENTS IF I STILL HAD MINE THEY WOULD BE ABOUT 50 YEARS OLD NOW.
I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THOSE ITEMS OVER THE YEARS IN GARAGE SALES AND A FEW I SUSPECT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR THAT PURPOSE ON EBAY ALONG WITH THE MANY REPLICA AND SOUVINEER AMERICAN TRIBAL ITEMS. SO I THINK IT IS GOOD INFORMATION FOR COLLECTORS TO HAVE AS IT IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY FACETS OF HOME MADE ITEMS TO BE FOUND, THERE MAY EVEN BE THOSE WHO SPECIALIZE IN COLLECTING SUCH ITEMS.

[fearn]

Thanks for the votes of confidence, Tim and Vandoo.

I was googling around to see what I could find in the way of information on Torres Strait Island clubs, and all I found was an article that says that there was a steady trade in club heads between the islands and the southern coast of PNG. The heads here (as I recall) disk shaped with a hole in them, and were made out of good stone. The name of these clubs was something like gabagaba. No pictures, unfortunately, but I'm guessing it's the kind of club mentioned in Stone's Glossary.

Anyway, that's not what we have here. I'm sticking with my original guess.

0.02 cents,

F

[Tim Simmons]

Again I feel there is room here for you to lend substance to your thinking with related information and illustration. I can extend the area of investigation throughout Melanesia, Micronesia and find many forms of weapon, wood and stone that in ways relate to the piece in question. The likeness to Biro-Biro totems {how extensive is this and other cassowary cults?} and weapons that were clearly based on this concept plus the fact that flint was a trade commodity in Melanesia and beyond through the Torres Straits is quite weighty. With the absents of field research and time to access collections in various cities I have in the very least tried to present a reasoned and informed opinion. Can you elaborate on your indication that flint nodule clubs were not made? I will keep this in mind and in the coming few months find time to visit the British Museum, and the Brighton museum where there is a good permanent display of Melanesian artifacts to do more research on the matter. I would find it hard to claim anything ardently without having the opportunity to handle the item. It will only be a matter of time before more conclusive evidence emerges like in an earlier discussion.

[Bill]

The sinew looks fairly large, as well a long piece. Would a dog be able to provide that? It looks like it would need to be from a larger animal. The cloth covered wire on it looks to be some sort of communications wire & fairly old. I don't think it proves much but may shade some light on when it was once displayed. The worm holes are also a nice touch. Doesn't look like any chips on the ends, so I doubt it was ever used as a tool. Hope you can put a time & place to an interesting piece.

[Tim Simmons]

Bill it seems to be one long strip of bark. I assume it is soaked to make it more elastic or it had these properties when fresh to shrink on itself like hide work in East Africa. Forming a very tight hold. It is indeed tight enough to run amok with confidence. Interesting that the this part of the Pacific completed the world telegraph network in 1902 I believe. Here is some more stuff on trade in the Torres Straits and PNG Fly river region.

I have started the process to make an appointment at the British Museums ethnographic department study room on the matter of flint headed clubs and will report all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone023.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/stone022.jpg

[VANDOO]

IF IT COULD BE DETERMINED WHAT TYPE OF PLANT BARK OR TYPE OF ANIMAL IF IT IS HIDE OR SINEW IT MIGHT HELP YOU PIN IT DOWN. AS MENTIONED LARGE ANIMALS WERE NOT AVAILABLE IN ALL AREAS WHERE MAN LIVED UNLESS YOU COUNT MAN HIMSELF.
MANY PRIMATIVE SOCIETYS CONSIDERED ROCKS OR OTHER NATURALY OCCURING MATERIALS THAT HAD INTERESTING SHAPES TO HAVE SPECIAL POWERS. MANY TIKI STONES IN HAWAII WERE NATURAL SHAPED STONES FOUND AND BROUGHT INTO THE HEIAU (TEMPLE) THAT REPRESENTED VARIOUS POWERFUL BEINGS OR GODS. I BELEAVE THE PRACTICE WAS WIDESPREAD THRU-OUT POLYNESIA. I WILL BE INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT YOU FIND OUT. GOOD LUCK

[Tim Simmons]

It is some kind of bark.

[inveterate]

Tim, I understand you have the piece in your hands and we are just looking at pictures, but could the binding be some sort of Reed as opposed to Bark ? Rod

[Tim Simmons]

I am almost certain it is a bark binding. Arranging to view and take pictures is no problem as long as they are for my own research and not for publication. Would showing pictures here be considered publication? Perhaps Andrew would know? Anyway a visit to the research center is a necessary preliminary to select the examples to view. I will try and find time to make the first visit as soon as possible hopefully next month sometime. It is also FREE :) :) :) :eek:

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

Sorry I'm not responding faster, but work takes precedence and I don't currently have a good library nearby to get the images from.

Basically, I know a few things about Oceanic weapons. I also know that it's fairly difficult to get good pictures of those weapons on line, and now that I'm not near a world-class university library, I don't have the access to the old ethnographic reports that I used to have.

That said...

Basically, the club's fairly primitively made, in the sense that it's asymmetric (lumpy). If it is an old Oceanic piece, especially one made for war, I would expect a much higher standard of worksmanship. As you undoubtedly know, artistry was an important an integral part of making a good weapon. That's my main problem with the idea that this is an old ethnographic club. It's not artistic, and in fact, a teenager could have easily made it.

Personally, I'm perfectly willing to believe that the wrapping is bark. It could easily be fig bark (from Australia), or linden bark (from Europe), or hickory bark (from the US), or any of a number of other possibilities. There are a number of trees that produce bark tough enough to make cordage from, and unfortunately, they are not confined to one climatic zone or one continent.

There's a lab in Madison, Wisconsin that could easily identify the wood and perhaps the bark, and there are geology labs in many universities that could probably ID the rock to location. However, each of these tests is somewhat destructive and probably costly. Whether it is worth it in this case I can't tell, but it is technically possible to determine where the materials came from.

Hope this helps,

F

[Tim Simmons]

Hello fearn,

I do not think I shall pursue it quite as far as a Bio Lab. I shall go to the museum to investigate Biro-Biro forms, bird head formed clubs, flint nodule heads.
Here is the rub, I see a great deal of artistry. Did I qualify as an artist? I would like to think I did so would my customers. Come up and see my etchings.
A powerful objet trouve. The halft has been thoughtfully selected and the construction, contrary to just a glance at the pictures, is very sensitive so as to make the whole thing feel good and move with ease. In real space the thing has a powerful presence. It is even possible that hitting people was not the main function. I do not think the people in question had primitive art concepts either. I might just be going completely DADA.

I can upload pictures of many images of clubs and adzes of basically the same construction sadly not one just the same as this one. They were indeed most likely made by relatively young people. Would showing pictures here be considered publishing?

[Tim Simmons]

The power of the objet trouve is with us all the time. This is from today's Guardian a British national newspaper. This image is deep within the western worlds Psyche.
So I really do not see any problem with a flint stone looking like a birds head or skull, or fitting a cultural image in the least. Especially when dealing with an animistic society where the forms are of known and recorded significance. Just look at the first Biro-Biro stones at the start of the thread.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/DADA.jpg

[fearn]

I have to agree about found art, Tim--and thanks for the parsnip pic.

[josh stout]

I grew up in England playing with flint and occasionally trying to make something with it. The stone looks exactly like English flint. It could well be from somewhere else, but the color and shape seem very familiar to me.
Josh

[Tim Simmons]

Yes I kept looking at flint while walking the dogs. I guess flint is flint. Flint was as mentioned earlier a trade commodity. All a can say to everyone is wait untill i get back from the museum. in the meantime I shall upload pictures of other this in the same line, some are made of slate and again I think slate is slate :shrug: .

[Tim Simmons]

I want this one. I think this is made of two types of wood like some African throwing clubs. The halft is very similar but not of the same construction, but I have more.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/DADA015.jpg

These charming ladies have slate dress clubs. I have more.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/DADA016.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/DADA017.jpg
More to come.

I could go on uploading picture untill tomorrow so there really is not much point. I was completely unaware that flint was only found in England :confused: .

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

Neat pics, but I think you may be mistaken about the materials in the first one: I'd guess it's a stone-headed club, not wood-headed:

Pic from the web (http://www.sftribal.com/Zena-Kruzick/tribal-art/detail/stone_club_head_png.htm)

The axes are from the Jimi Valley, and Sir David Attenborough of all people, describes them being made at a place called Menjim in the 1950's. The book is called Journeys to the Past, first published in 1959.

Flint is just a form of cryptocrystalline silicon, aka chert. It's pretty common in England, France, and Belgium, but cryptocrystalline quartz is found all over the world. Check out the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint) for some more info, although it's incomplete.

[inveterate]

Tim, Fearn, All three clubs are Stone heads. Rod

[fearn]

You're right, Inveterate, although the bottom two are technically axes with wooden counterweights (the back blade) covered with woven rattan. Those stone axes are mostly abandoned to ceremonial use, now that steel axes are available.

F

[inveterate]

Fearn, Yes most commonly from the Mt Hagen area. Tim , have now had the opportunity to go through 2 extensive libraries on Oceanic and Aboriginal Artifacts and can find nothing like your club, Am wondering could it be European or African? Cheers Rod

[Tim Simmons]

I will try to get into town this April. I do not think it is anything other than Melanesian or Micronesian. Look at sago pounders and adze from these regions. Maybe we only need to wait a week or so, all depends on how much work I have to do.

[Tim Simmons]

I am on a mission to find all pictures of similar consruction. This is a tool and nowhere near as carefully made as the flint club.
http://www.tribalworldbooks.com.au/mlPage5.html

[Tim Simmons]

Explore here, great pictures. Plate 75, my club is of the same quality if not a little better than these.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17910/17910-h/images/p051.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17910/17910-h/17910-h.htm&h=720&w=488&sz=38&hl=en&start=43&um=1&tbnid=iiaXU2se29GuuM:&tbnh=140&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcollections%2BMelanesian%2Bstone%2Bwe apons%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

[Tim Simmons]

So why not use flint stone. We know it was traded and would be as good as turtle bone.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.janeresture.com/oceania_ethnology/Image1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.janeresture.com/oceania_ethnology/micronesia.htm&h=469&w=167&sz=16&hl=en&start=168&tbnid=QxjvS80kemIYFM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=46&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMicronesian%2Bstone%2Bweapons%26start %3D160%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3De n%26sa%3DN

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

Why not use flint stone? This is where the geology lesson comes in. Islands come in three basic flavors (so long as a geologist is not reading this :-)): 1) continental, 2) volcanic and oceanic, and 3) coral.

Basically, flint will only occur on continental islands. Micronesia is composed exclusively of volcanic high islands and coral atolls. On coral atolls, the stone is (you guessed it) coral. This is why atoll dwellers use things like Tridacna shell for tools and put shark teeth on their clubs. On volcanic islands, the only stones available are volcanic, things like basalt and obsidian.

Flint only occurs on continental rocks (ditto with chert). There are no continental islands in Micronesia, and in Polynesia, only New Zealand is continental (and Fiji, if you're going to count Fiji as a Melanesia/Polynesia intermediate). Melanesia contains islands of all three types, and thus it is the only possible source for a flint rock. Even then the rock would have had to come from some place on or near New Guinea, the larger Solomon Islands, or New Caledonia. It could also have come from Australia, of course.

This assumes, of course, that the club actually came from the islands.

Bottom line: identifying the rock is pretty important, because it will help define a source.

Hope this helps.

F

[Tim Simmons]

You are absolutely right. I was working on the methods of construction that appear woefully inadequate and primitive to us. I have not got the funds to do forensic research. How extensive was the trade in flint? I hope to get an answer at the Anthropological Research Centre at th BM.

[fearn]

I'll be interested in the answer. I know of local trade in stones, and it would be interesting if there were long distance trading as well.

Have fun!

F

[Tim Simmons]

I am not sure if this link will work. I will post an extract about how in some parts traditional trade patterns continued into the very early 1900s. It is interesting to read that there was some conflict with pearl shell workers that had been established on some island of the Torres Straits from 1860.
http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/organisation/sections/library/memoirs/mqmpdfs/ch3_1_barham.pdf

[Tim Simmons]

Read page 53 of the last link. :eek: wrong page :o

[Tim Simmons]

Sorry i meant page54 :eek: :eek:

[Tim Simmons]

I have not been able to get to town but I have not forgotten this thread and will purse it further. I have been looking at the islands that make up Vanuatu as well PNG , New Britain, New Ireland. All of these places could be supplied with Cape York goods or certainly flint from NE AUS. The trouble is this is fairly new ground. Go to an posh auction house punkahwallah and they only know what they last sold that looked similar where ever it was from. Probably confidently labeled PNG. :shrug:

[VANDOO]

OCEANIC CLUBS TEND TO BE WOOD MOST OF THE TIME BUT THERE ARE SOME STONE HEADED EXAMPLES. THE ONLY SOURCE OF OBSIDIAN WHICH I HAVE SEEN WAS FOUND IN THE ADMIRALTY ISLANDS I FORGET WHICH ISLAND BUT IT WAS SOUGHT AFTER THRUOUT THE REGION. MOST STONE CLUB HEADS I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN VOLCANIC STONE OR METAMORPHIC/SEDIMENTARY , I HAVE SEEN SOME QUARTZITE USED IN AUSTRALIA AS WELL ,USUALLY FOR KNIVES AND ADZ HEADS. THE FAVORED VOLCANIC STONE IS BASALT WHICH IS HEAVIER THAN THE LAVA THAT HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO THE AIR AND FLUFFED UP WITH BUBBLES. SERPENTINE IS ALSO USED WHICH IS FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS METAMORPHIC AND CAN EVENTUALLY TURN INTO JADE WHICH IS ALSO SOUGHT AFTER. THE MOUNT HAGEN CEREMONIAL AXES SEEM TO HAVE HEADS MADE OF SOME FORM OF SHALE OR HARD SOAPSTONE, SOME OF WHICH IS QUITE BEAUTIFUL BUT CHIPS EASILY OT THE EDGE. GRANITE IS ALSO USED WHERE IT CAN BE FOUND BUT I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY SEEN A GRANITE CLUB ON AN OCEANIC WEAPON.
THE AMERICAS HAVE A AMPLE SUPPLY OF FLINT SO IT IS A COMMON MATERIAL USED FOR POINTS AND KNIVES BUT OTHER HEAVIER STONES WERE USUALLY USED FOR WAR CLUBS. EUROPE AND EGYPT HAVE LOTS OF FLINT BUT THAT IS AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEGE GOES AS TO WHERE FLINT IS USED.

[VANDOO]

I WILL TRY AND PUT IN A FEW PICTURES FOR GRINS. :) I AM SURPRIZED ALL 4 CAME THRU. #1 DOUBLE HEADED OBSIDIAN SPEAR ADMIRALTY IS.
#2 SOLOMON ISLANDS, RENNEL IS. STONE HEADED CLUB, BASALT
#3 AZMAT CLUB VOLCANIC STONE
#4 OLD PAPUA STONE CLUB HEAD, VOLCANIC STONE.

[VANDOO]

I AM FEELING LUCKY I WILL TRY A FEW MORE :D
#1 PNG. VOLCANIC STONE AX SHOWN MOUNTED
#2 OLD KUKU WOODEN CLUB SIMILUAR TO SOME OF THE STONE FORMS FROM NEW GUINEA
#3 PNG STONE ADZ SOFT STONE HEAD PROBABLY CEREMONIAL OR RECENT AND NOT FOR USE.
#4 RECENT CEREMONIAL AX PNG. PRETTY GREEN STONE AX BLADE LOOKS LIKE JADE BUT CAN BE SCRATCHED WITH A KNIFE. SOAPSTONE?

I DON'T HAVE ANY PICTURES OF THE AUSTRALIAN QUARTZITE MATERIAL SO WILL HAVE TO LOOK FARTHER. THIS IS NOT MUCH HELP IDENTIFING THE FLINT NODULE BUT PERHAPS IT POINTS THE WAY FROM OCEANIC TO A CONTINENTAL ORIGIN UNLESS THERE IS FLINT USED IN AUSTRALIA OR NEW GUINEA OR NEW ZEALAND WHICH I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY SEEN. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD CONTACT THE ARTEFACT OR ROCK HUNTING CLUBS IN THOSE COUNTRYS TO FIND OUT FOR SURE. GOOD LUCK

[Tim Simmons]

Interesting stuff.

Page 1 "the quarried flint nodules from the cave were taken elsewhere and made into tools"

We also know from Haddons observations that flint was indeed a trade item.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/109817/mining-by-aborigines.pdf

This one is good too, with pics. :cool:
http://nma.gov.au/shared/libraries/attachments/schools/resources/telling_our_indigenous_stories/telling_our_indigenous_stories_bw/files/1305/indig_stories_bw.pdf

[Tim Simmons]

Short of the okay from the British Museum official wallah, in spite of much indisputable supportive evidence there seems to be a severe case of "not in the book syndrome" as if a complete catalogue is ever possible in the first place, we know all forms there in the book stupid. :rolleyes:

[Tim Simmons]

I finally managed to get into town today. Before I go any further on the club I will just tell you that I also visited the Wallace collection. This was rather humbling, but take heart we on this forum from what I have seen are all in possession of at least one piece worthy of the most prestigious collection. keep a look out on their web site as the oriental arms are to be published some time October onwards.

Okay the visit to the Anthropological centre at the BM was a little disappointing. I could find stacks of related information more than I could copy but nothing exactly the same. Also there is no expert on call as there used to be when a worked at my "Alter Mater" the museum of mankind. beside I did not take the object with me. I could pursue it even further by visiting the store which would still be free but I really do not have the time to commit.
Anyway lets look at what i could find. There are some splendid old German books from the very early 1900s in the centre with fantastic pictures. This picture is interesting as it has, that old chestnut the saw fish bill. Which is handy :D .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Stoneclub001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Stoneclub003.jpg

There were references to a great many cult/magic totem stone and bird head objects, as i mention earlier the club in question could be a staff or ceremonial. I was able to bet a good photo copy of this shell axe which is much less fine than the club. What is note worthy is the use of barked wood and wood stripped of bark as in my piece.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Stoneclub002.jpg

Finally I thought this is quite an interesting picture. Judging by the size of this chaps tool I would say he was nearly as big as me :cool:.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jamhappy/Stoneclub.jpg

[Tim Simmons]

Time flies.http://www.papua-insects.nl/history/Wollaston%20expedition/Wollaston%20expedition.htm

[Tim Simmons]

I just had to add this pic of the Cerne Abbas giant. Well I have to blow my own trumpet.

[Tim Simmons]

This establishes the use of chert/flint and is a continuation of form although different in construction. As we know flint was exported so a variation in construction should be expected. The same form can also be seen on a New Caledoean club if you scroll through Oceania. The same bird head club,pick,war hammer? is widespread, seen in many Islands in these parts of the South Western Pacific.

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/o/Oceania/1900.55.178/

[Tim Simmons]

More reference to the use of flint. Solomons

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1782830

[Tim Simmons]

I have just recevieved a book "The Traditional Pottery of Papua New Guinea"

Okay the book is not about weapons however it does cast a very bright light on trading.

We accept the trade of European steel weapons and lets call it the Red Sea trade of steel weapons to areas without the skill to produce quite the same weapon or if not so much the skill but quantity.

The trading could help explain why one cannot point to another club exactly the same. As mentioned before it may seem strange to us why a nodule of flint might be so valuable. This series of picture shows the scale of trading. They also show how flint would be traded to islands that naturally have no flint. As I am a bit dumb and slow I will do this by a series of replies to this post.

[Tim Simmons]

This picture shows pots ready to be traded by the Muto people, an annual trading festival and expidition known as "Hiri" Also a picture of the trading canoe. The pictures are turn of the 19/20th century.
These expeditions included the Torres Straits Islands, we know from previous post of the trade of flint from Australia from Cape York to the Torres Straits possibly other islands. I am sure they could put a few stone in this trading canoe even if it was just balast.

[Tim Simmons]

These pictures show what lengths some people have to go to to obtain substances we just do not think about. A there and back trip from Nabwageta Island to Fergusson Island of say 40KM must put some value on the clay as raw material. Could put a few stones in the bottom of the canoe?

[Tim Simmons]

Taking the goodies home to the far flung Islands. Could put a few stones in the canoe here too.

[fearn]

These pictures show what lengths some people have to go to to obtain substances we just do not think about. A there and back trip from Nabwageta Island to Fergusson Island of say 40KM must put some value on the clay as raw material. Could put a few stones in the bottom of the canoe?

I guess. In North America, they were trading copper from the great lakes for shell from the gulf. Or the anasazi were getting macaw feathers and chocolate from Mexico.

I'd guess that trade's an old, old human phenomenon. That said, it's still fun to see those pictures.

F

[Tim Simmons]

Fearn,
Researching "Hiri trade" I have found stuff that suggests, not only according the the book on pottery is it an annual festival as a prelude to a trading enterprise. It seems there may be such a thing as the Hiri curculation rather like the the trade winds of the Atlantic sea trade.

[Rick]

A true 'Waterworld' , Tim . :)
But ....


Without Dennis Hopper .. :D

[Tim Simmons]

After a great deal of rambling and learning we have a conculsion to this club. I would like to thank you all for many hours of frustration and great entertainment.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591

There is the possibility that it may even be Ona Patagonia which would make it a very rare item indeed if it is not already. :)

[katana]

Stupidly, I posted this comment on this thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591 when it should be on this one :o

Hi Tim,
the illustration of the 'stone headed' club shows that it is mounted to the side of the shaft......yours is mounted on top. So I am not so certain that we can ID yours from the drawing.

Regards David

[Tim Simmons]

I have received a reply from the British Museum Collection Enquiries. This I have to say was rather disappointing. To be fair the curators were only working from not the best photographs. They are also not the personnel that have daily access to the less distinctive items in the miles of boxes in the Museum store building, which is four stories high. In the very early 1980s I worked as a registrar in the African department {pre computer, pen and ink drawing of items in the collection} I could have told you it was not African. The letter is here for you all to read. It is some what sitting on the fence I feel. I am most reluctant to leave the item with them, also to expect every box of all geographic areas to be opened to match materials is a little unreasonable. So I have decided to tackle the problem another way.

Today I kept an appointment with a Dr Peter Gasson working in the Jodrell laboratory at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew. Three samples of wood were taken from the haft of the club with the minimum of damage. There and then from the transverse sample I was shown through the microscope that although light to handle it is a hard wood. The work will be on going so I expect a final analysis in about a months time. This procedure may not answer all the questions on the club. If only a genus is identified then I could still be no further on in the hunt for an origin however I am feeling confident that we are not look at something like Oak. On the other hand it could well be an unknown species, all in the air really. I am wondering if it is some kind of palm wood. I really do hope I get somewhere? keeping my fingers crossed as this is going to cost 3/5th of what I paid for the club. What ever the result good or bad I will keep you all informed.

[Bryan.H]

I wouldn't be surprised if this club originated from Australia...

Here's a link showing a modern aboriginal elder making a stone hatchet.

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/index.html#restoreaxe

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/axehead/images/oldaxe.jpg

The technique of binding is very similar. With regards to the 'telegraph' wire, this type of insulated wire is similar to that used in old houses over here, and the aboriginal people are famous for their ingenuity in combining new materials with ancient technological methods (i.e. flint-knapping glass of broken beer bottles to make spear heads in remote areas up to the 1960's and later).

I can't say for sure it's an 100% Australian Aboriginal artefact, but it would not look out of place in the Australian Aboriginal material culture of the early 20th century.

[Atlantia]

Comming in rather late here.
Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately).
I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools.
Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club?
I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

[Tim Simmons]

If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.

[fearn]

Good luck, Tim.

I suspect you'll get a good answer on the wood ID if it's tropical. Even oak wood is variable enough that they can get it to at least subgenus, if not species. The only challenge is whether they have that species in their type collection or not.

On the other hand, it's good to know that we came up with the same answer as the collections managers of the British Museum (i.e. what the heck is it?). Kudos to us.

Best,

F

[Tim Simmons]

Email to me, 30 December 2009

Dear Mr Simmons

I have now microscopically examined the wood fragments we took from your club handle on 30 October. The closest anatomical match I can find is with the wood of Ligustrum sp., Privet. There are about 40 species in this genus, 1 in Europe, 1 in North Africa but most in East and Southeast Asia. This does seem to throw some doubt on the club being from southern South America, but depending on its age there is always the possibility that the wood was imported.


Yours sincerely

Peter Gasson


Dr Peter Gasson
Jodrell Laboratory
Royal Botanic Gardens
Kew
Richmond
Surrey
TW9 3DS

So no actual species identified but with further research on the net, species of the genus Ligustrum are found throughout Malaysia to Australia. I do not have the funds to get the results photographed and pursue this course of enquiry further worldwide. However I do feel that the results give some backing to my original opinions and findings on the object. I do not know how early non-native Privet were introduced to Australia but can say that {ref the wire on the handle} telecommunication started from the late 1850s.

[fearn]

Privet. Hmmmm. Interesting finding. I don't see a lowland tropical Ligustrum species on the list yet, so I'm not buying Torres Strait Islands. Without testing the bark binding (hey, why not disassemble it completely and test the rock head too? :D:D:D) I think the best guess is that the handle came out of someone's hedge or weed patch.

Great that you're doing this research, Tim. At least, now we know where to go when we have these types of questions next time.

Best,

F

[Tim Simmons]

What does the Australian Privet Hawk Moth grub eat?

[fearn]

Ummmmmm, the privet hawk moth (Psilogramma menephron) caterpillars eat members of the families Bignoniaceae and Oleaceae, including "olive trees (Olea europaea, OLEACEAE), but is perhaps most often found in suburbia on privet (Ligustrum vulgare, OLEACEAE ), jasmine (Jasminum officinale, OLEACEAE ), and Australian native olive (Olea paniculata, OLEACEAE)" (ref (http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/pmenephr.htm)). You were perhaps expecting that because it is found in the tropical Pacific, therefore privet is found there too? :shrug:

Best,

F

[Tim Simmons]

F, are you stating that there are no Australasia Ligustrum, native Privets or related species? Dr Gasson did say "closest anatomical match". Perhaps you have access to better examples to match the results too? If so that would greatly help your most learned contributions so far to the thread.

[Bryan.H]

In Australia, the Ligustrum privet species (some of which are classified as introduced and pests where they are prolific) are sometimes easily confused with the native Grey Myrtle shrub/ tree [BACKHOUSIA MYRTIFOLIA] . The wood from this tree is recorded as being favoured by aboriginal groups in Queensland specifically for axe handles! and also known locally in the past as 'neverbreak' wood...so it's not impossible for this club to be of Northern Australian provenance.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:yhDbI1O-APoJ:qldscienceteachers.tripod.com/worksheets/multi/bush_tucker_plants.doc+grey+myrtle+used+by+aborigi nes&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

http://www.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au/council/sections/Privet/UpdateItems/native2.jpg
Grey Myrtle

http://www.iewf.org/weedid/images/Ligustrum_sinense/Ligustrum%20sinense%20FOM%201104%20leaf%20formatio nl.JPG

Ligustrum privet

[Tim Simmons]

Perhaps it is privet/olive like plant family-Oleaceae all would be to some degree similar?, that is far more inclusive though.

Thanks Bryan Northern Australia is of course where flint mines are mentioned in a much earlier link.

I think Ligustrum undulatum is a native Australian privet. I imagine they are all quite hard and useful for tools and utensils.

[fearn]

Hi All,

Thing to watch (as Tim already noticed) is the scientific name, not the common name. The wood expert narrowed it to either Ligustrum or something similar to it in the Oleaceae (the olive family).

I'm being annoying in pointing out that I'm not seeing evidence of a tropical privet. Northern Australia is tropical, and Torres Islands are further north (e.g. closer to the equator) than mainland Australia. The fact that the Privet hawk moth is all through the Pacific isn't good evidence, because it eats things other than privet.

Now, I don't have university access right now, so I can't easily find out if there's a close tropical relative of Ligustrum hanging out in the Torres Strait area. If the wood is privet (e.g. Ligustrum species), it strongly suggests that the club was made in a subtropical or temperate setting, somewhere where privet grows.

Best,

F

[Tim Simmons]

From the "Australian Museum Sydney" a wonderful paper back book/pamphlet "Australian Aboriginal Stone Implements" 1976 F. D. McCarthy. I post here {if okay with the moderators} a few paragraphs that I hope try to boil down and keep in context, also show how fresh this study is. The books main concentration is what it calls prehistoric camp sites but this is Australia and without solid provable dating prehistoric could only really mean from the early 19th century. My club would be described as a "partially trimmed coroid club" there is some continuity of form when one looks at "fig 61 image no5" which also happens to have been traded quite far. I cannot post the whole book.

Barry if you do not already have this, then you need it. It is cheap, shipping cost more than the book.

[Tim Simmons]

Another picture which I could not fit in the last post.

[Tim Simmons]

There has been several stone clubs and knives sold by one Australian seller on ebay. These pieces have made go prices. I have kept pictures of one of the examples as it shows the very same way binding the stone which seemed to cause some consern. This club is generally just a litte smaller than my example. It did however go for more than double I paid for mine but I suppose that was a while back.

[colin henshaw]

Tim,

Here is an illustration from the book "History of Mankind" by F Ratzel. The stone club described as from Brazil.

[Tim Simmons]

This study kind of puts the Kibosh on the long held view that flint/chert was not available to much of the volcanic South Pacific.


file:///C:/Users/Tim/Downloads/Ward%20&%20Smith%201974%20Mankind%209%20[2].pdf

Copy and paste what is above might work, if not use the link below.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230240465_CHARACTERIZATION_OF_CHERT_SOURCES_AS_AN_ AID_TO_THE_IDENTIFICATION_OF_PATTERNS_OF_TRADE_SOU THEAST_SOLOMON_ISLANDS_A_PRELIMINARY_INVESTIGATION _1974