A bit unusual keris [Archive] - Ethnographic Arms & Armour

rasdan

8th March 2005, 01:51 AM

Hi guys,

Nothing much about this one. Only the size is rather unusual. Ganja to tip is 18". The blade curves and ends at a very narrow point. I think its for piercing chainmails. Its rather heavy as the thickness at ganja is around 1 cm. Pamor is as typical bugis blades, ujung gunung+wos wutah and wengkon. Its not too clear however. Sorry that the pictures are not that nice. I took it in nightime. Still trying to figure out the best way to take pictures. :o

Andrew

8th March 2005, 02:00 AM

In spite of my hesitation to jump into the "shark pool" with you guys, I like this keris very much, rasdan. ;) Thank you for sharing with us.

Was chain mail common in Indonesia at any time? If not, why would an empu make a mail-piercing blade (if that's what it is)?

rasdan

8th March 2005, 02:05 AM

Hi Andrew,

The Bugis use chainmails. Theres one or two specimen of theese mails in museums in KL. I think they got the idea from their neighbouring Moros. :)

rahman

8th March 2005, 03:18 AM

So, Pak Rasdan

Do you think it was used against the Bugis (17-19th century) or against the Portuguese and Dutch (15th century)?

Er, sorry but I can't tell if this is a Malay oir Bugis keris? Maklumlah just beginning :o

John

8th March 2005, 05:53 AM

I like the beauty of simplicity of this thick graceful Bugis sepokal blade well complemented by it's matching pendokok. Good find and syabas.

rasdan

8th March 2005, 07:15 AM

Hi guys,

From my point of view this keris is in straits bugis style (slightly curved and convex cross section) and I think it's used by the straits bugis during the war with Siak in 1700's. However i havent done any research regarding this to support my opinion. :o

Thanks John, nevertheless i still highly admiring your rhino horn bugis. Its simply stunning. :D

BluErf

8th March 2005, 03:04 PM

Sulawesi!! :)

Bill

8th March 2005, 04:35 PM

Nice keris, its beauty lies in its simplicity. Wonder how old the scabbard is. More likely the Bugis developed armor before the Moro because of thier manner of combat with blow guns. This may be handy in dispatching a wounded armored warrior. "The Narrative of Captain David Woodard" is an interesting account of a group of sailors, lost at sea, & thier 2.5 years as prisoners of varying Sulawesi groups in the late 18thC. Woodard gives a first hand account of a battle between 2 villages. Also describes ceremonies where bird shaped hilts made of horn were given for acts of bravery on the battlefield for thier daggers & creese (described as 24" blades). Wonder if the origins of the horn Bugis hilts was reserved for warriors that had been deemed worthy.

Conogre

8th March 2005, 04:56 PM

From what I've been able to ascertain, chainmail was indeed used throughout the region, often with tortoise shell, brass, bone or even fish scale plates incorporated into it, plus many tribes in the area also wore "war jackets" of very heavy woven plant fibre manufacture.
Many were extremely decorative as well as functional and would have been effective against small blades, darts and even arrows, so a thicker, very pointed thrusting blade would have been perfect against these as well.
I think the effectiveness of even many slashing type short swords would have been greatly reduced as well....try a slashing stroke against one of the thick, woven door mats seen everywhere in the northern US and it will give you a fair comparison.
Then try a thrust with a very thin, pointed blade and I think you'll find it slides through almost without noticable impedence.
Mike

rasdan

9th March 2005, 02:47 AM

Thanks guys,

I think Conogre's remarks makes a lot of sense though we may dont wanna try it in the yard and get our neighbours selling their homes cheap and moving out fast. :D (Quoting Radu) Just kidding Mike. :)

I searched for the book Bill mentioned in the library but its in the red tab section. Then looked for it in the internet shops...no wonder its in the red tab, the price is between AUD825 to more than USD 1000!! Thanks for info Bill. I'm sure that horn or ivory kerdas (bird shaped) hilt can be regarded as a token of bravery. Theres not much in the market and this surely reflect the standard of such article in the old days. Sometimes i got the feeling that the horn ones are harder to find. (Just a feeling). :)

Hi Blu, i'm a bit blurrred about the line that divides sulawesi bugis keris and strait/ riau bugis keris either on the nature of the blade or the fittings. Can u kindly shed some light on this? At the moment i just regard the penghulu sampir as sulawesi and the thinner sampir, narowing characteristics of the batang and flaring buntut as straits bugis. Your help is highly appreciated. :)

Regards,
Rasdan

Bill

9th March 2005, 03:32 AM

Rasdan: http://www.elibron.com/english/search/full_search.phtml?adv%5B%5D=1&keyword=david+woodard&lang%5B%5D=1&where=0&kind%5B%5D=1&search.x=25&search.y=7 , still not cheap, think this one may be up Ricks alley, also has a few other accounts of shipwrecked sailors.

rasdan

9th March 2005, 03:55 AM

At last, one option. Thank you very much Bill. :)

BluErf

9th March 2005, 12:37 PM

A few things made me think its Sulawesi. First, the pendoko is the long-stemmed form type, which is more typical of Sulawesi than Straits. Straits Bugis tend to use the 'short-stemmed', wide-rimmed pendoko. The kerdas hilt should also shed some clues, but from the angle of the pictures, I can't tell.

Secondly, the sheath has this 'awkwardness' (not in the bad sense, its probably just our sense of aesthetics in this part of the Malay/Straits Bugis world is different from the Sulawesi Bugis). Its difficult to describe, but Sulawesi-made sampir has this 'unpleasantness' that contrasts with the 'sweeter', better-shaped Straits Bugis type of sampir. Also, the batang has this bulge (swollen part) near the top. Straits Bugis batang tends to be more 'straight-up straight-down'. The buntut too -- oversized and odd-looking, adds to the awkward feel.

The blade is the hardest to tell the origins from because the blade outlasts the fittings and do travel around the region and gets dressed up to suit the owner's culture and tastes. But this blade has again this characteristic Sulawesi 'awkwardness' that I do think its a Sulawesi blade. And of course the sheer proportions and thickness of this blade is 101% Bugis garang-ness. :)

Great catch!!!

See one of my previous post -- see the 'awkward' resemblance.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=63&highlight=warrior+keris

rahman

9th March 2005, 01:28 PM

Sorry, this is off-topic.

Blu - that 'x' on the ganja of your warrior keris -- could it the empu's signature. I read somewhere that sometimes, when an empu is satisfied with a piece of his work, he would leave behind his mark. Could this be one?

I have a riau keris that has a curious mark on its ganja, not an 'x'.

rasdan

10th March 2005, 12:12 PM

Hi Blu,

Thanks for clearing up the point. However Frey in his book seperated sort of a Minang keris as Sumatra-Bugis keris. U know.. thick sampir, high pointed tip of sampir. Other than that he stated as Sulawesi kerisses. I'll try to scan the page to ease our reference.

DAHenkel

10th March 2005, 02:39 PM

Rasdan, Blu is spot on with the Sulawesi provenance. Compare with this example below - note especially the lack of a "picitan" on the side of the sampir but also just the overall shape. You will never see a Straits Bugis keris like this.

DAHenkel

10th March 2005, 02:41 PM

rasdan

11th March 2005, 02:40 AM

Thanks Dave. I think i'll start a new thread as soon as possible regarding this topic. :)

Andrew

11th March 2005, 02:53 AM

Hi Andrew,

The Bugis use chainmails. Theres one or two specimen of theese mails in museums in KL. I think they got the idea from their neighbouring Moros. :)

Hi Rasdan,

I missed this entirely until just now. :o

Thanks for the explanation. Interesting stuff. I've been a proponant of mail-piercing tips on pesh kabz and various Indo-Persian forms, but have not given much thought to the SEA weapons in this role.

Magabani, don't you have a full set of Moro mail?

rasdan

11th March 2005, 06:55 AM

Hi Andrew,

Heres some armour used by Malays. The first is made of tin and the second made of crocodile skin. :eek:

rahman

11th March 2005, 06:59 AM

wow!

Pak Rasdan -- are these photos from Muzium Negara KL? I don't recall ever seeing them.

With armor like these, the Malays don't have to worry about being kebal ;)

Are these bullet-proof? I don't mean from an M-16 but rather from a 19th century musket.

rasdan

11th March 2005, 07:05 AM

They are from Selangor Muzium in Shah Alam, Rahman. Bullet proof? Nah.. i dont think so. Actually i wanted to take some pictures of a kemuning tree behind the Muzium, but to my suprise it was "trimmed" and not much is left to see. But it'll survive i think.

Rick

11th March 2005, 01:51 PM

These both look like examples of Nias war jackets .
Any provenance with the display ?

rasdan

12th March 2005, 12:42 AM

Hi Rick,

I'm not sure. Theres no caption on these items. Sorry. If u hav samples of Nias war jackets, can u kindly show us?

Regards

Rick

12th March 2005, 01:51 AM

Like this .

rasdan

12th March 2005, 02:08 AM

WOW!! I've seen the pic before but didnt notice it. This shows how ignorant i am. Thanks man!! I'll have the museum informed.

Alam Shah

14th March 2005, 02:01 AM

For book reference, see...:)

Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago
by Albert G. Van Zonneveld

Hardcover: 160 pages
Publisher: Kitlv Press (July 1, 2002)
ISBN: 9054500042

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/9054500042.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

rasdan

14th March 2005, 02:11 AM

Thanks, Alam. :)

John

25th March 2005, 04:04 AM

Whilst we have been on Sulawesi/Bugis... From the publication - HOUTSNIJWERK EN METAALBEWERKING IN NEDERLANDSCH-INDIE. PUBLISHER: DEBUSSY, AMSTERDAM, 1916.

Raja Muda

25th March 2005, 09:39 AM

While we're on this subject, there's always one thing I wanted to ask Dave. Last month I visited the Asian Civilisations Museum across the bay from the Cavanagh bridge.
I was intrigued to see one of the kerises in the display. It has a nogo blade if I'm not mistaken but it was provenanced Bugis (again, if memory serves me right). I don't know if anyone else here, especially the orang Singapure have ever noticed this particular blade (inside the Malay world gallery).
Were the Bugis smiths also manufacturing blade types similar to those by the Javanese empus or was this one a trade blade? hmmm :)

BluErf

25th March 2005, 03:49 PM

That blade is a true-blue straits bugis blade, not a javanese blade. Thick, broad, robust, in full bugis glory. The naga is also not of javanese form.

John

17th August 2005, 10:50 AM

... Last month I visited the Asian Civilisations Museum across the bay from the Cavanagh bridge.
I was intrigued to see one of the kerises in the display. It has a nogo blade if I'm not mistaken but it was provenanced Bugis (again, if memory serves me right). I don't know if anyone else here, especially the orang Singapure have ever noticed this particular blade (inside the Malay world gallery).
Were the Bugis smiths also manufacturing blade types similar to those by the Javanese empus or was this one a trade blade? hmmm :)

Just happened to chance upon this thread (post) via url from the "Question About SEA Armor" thread. I vividly remember seeing this particular gorgeous solid sturdy tegap strait Bugis Naga keris at the ACM during my visit there in April and particularly like it's coherent form. The other rather catchy and outstanding piece was the Peninsular (?) keris blade with 10 different pamors (if I remember correctly). Almost gives one the impression that it might be it's smith's final attempt to register as much of his key pamor skills onto that blade like a "textbook" he wanted left behind.

Raja Muda

18th August 2005, 02:03 AM

Hi John,

I think Naga blades can both be a joy and frustration to collectors. From conversations I had with collectors who put a lot of faith in lore and a bit less on systematic book learning (my approach is a combination of both I guess) they have this belief that keris with Naga were meant for royals and blue bloods only. And talking about Java, such keris were probably spread around hundreds of Priyayi from your Raden Mas up to your Kanjeng Pagerans etc. Getting a good old one would be a great thing.
However, the naga motif today is also one of the most mass produced pattern you get on cheap tourist blades made from Madura, with a kind of yellow metal inlay that imitates Kinatah blades.
There are occassionally good newly made blades of this kind, and I think it's OK to buy them, just for the sake of keeping the craft alive, but you have people who try and pass the as older stuff. Bad.
Hence the reason why I stick to Malay kerises. ;)

John

18th August 2005, 02:46 AM

Hi John,
...Hence the reason why I stick to Malay kerises. ;)

Maybe I'm getting old. It has just been old or fairly old Bugis for me the past couple of years...and waiting for 2 more old Bugis from England... ;)

BluErf

18th August 2005, 05:31 PM

The other rather catchy and outstanding piece was the Peninsular (?) keris blade with 10 different pamors (if I remember correctly). Almost gives one the impression that it might be it's smith's final attempt to register as much of his key pamor skills onto that blade like a "textbook" he wanted left behind.

Hi John,

I think that's a Javanese keris. Yes, really brings a tear to the eye... its so beautiful...

Hey, show us your 2 old 'babies' when they arrive ok. :)

John

19th August 2005, 02:10 AM

Hi Kai Wee,

Pity I didn't bring my camera that day as ACM does allow photography without flash.

The 2 old "babes" will make a transit at Singapore so probably you could take a look in person and perhaps offer some restoration recommendations prior to them moving on to Kelantan for the purpose. If they turn out well, I probably will put up pictures here or at the KampungNet.

Alam Shah

19th August 2005, 03:38 AM

Hi John,

Pity I couldn't meet up with you when you last visit Singapore. When you next visit, do let me know. We can meet up, along with some other keris enthusiasts.

I believe your 2 pieces will be at Adni's, when it comes? May I see it, too. :D

John

19th August 2005, 04:37 AM

Hi John,

Pity I couldn't meet up with you when you last visit Singapore. When you next visit, do let me know. We can meet up, along with some other keris enthusiasts.

Certainly and many thanks for the kind open invitation! Only keris enthusiast I was lucky enough to meet was Mr Chew (MyKampung). If only Adni didn't have to go to KL so soon (within hours of our meeting), he would have been able to arrange for meeting with a few friends like Kai Wee, Paul etc. Sayang lah but certainly will make it the next trip.

I believe your 2 pieces will be at Adni's, when it comes? May I see it, too. :D

Of course. The more the merrier. :) The pieces are said to be from the collection of the late Evan Perry, armourer to the Tower of London.

BluErf

20th August 2005, 02:11 AM

Whoa John, I'm already feeling jealous from the sound of it. :)

Hopefully I can get to see them, but I can only hope because my system project is ramping up for launch at the end of the year, and my working hours are getting really bad (was in office past midnight yesterday).

John

20th August 2005, 09:18 AM

Kai Wee, now I'm getting a little worried in case they fall short of your expectations. :D

Yeah, I know what it's like in a Bank...have been past midnights and weekends as well. Good luck in your project.

BluErf

21st August 2005, 02:51 AM

Hey John,

Dropped by Adni's shop for about an hour yesterday afternoon and saw them! Apparently they arrived shortly before and Adni was inspecting them. What luck! :)

You have 2 very beautiful pedigree Bugis kerises in excellent condition, oozing machismo. Very well defined hexagonal cross-section, broad, and with great luks too. I think one of them is a Straits Bugis piece, and the other a Sulawesi Bugis piece. Though slightly different, both are like matcthing brothers.

Hey, you have quite a number of great Bugis kerises already! I'm really jealous! :)

John

21st August 2005, 05:01 AM

You know you just make me so happy with the news! Thank you so much Kai Wee. I guess I've a lot to thank Stefan Domoney as well.

I can assure you the jealousy is more than mutual from my part just Bugiswise.

Alam Shah

23rd August 2005, 02:53 PM

John

24th August 2005, 02:21 AM

John,
Been to Adni's, today. Seen your blades. :eek:
Both blades are beautiful. The shorter piece is my kind of blade.
Thick, broad and well-balanced.

The longer piece is a Bugis Sulawesi blade. Need sheath reworks, though.
As for the description, BluErf had summed it up, nicely. ;)
Congratulations.:)
Thanks Alam Shah. I've preference of the shorter piece too in spite of it's slightly cut tang although seemingly long enough to take on an acute angled sulawesi styled kerdas hulu. I think the longer piece is a Straits Bugis. As you probably already know they are on their way to Kelantan this weekend for refurbishing/resurrection and I can't wait to see them completed especially after Kai Wee's and your assessments. :D

Looks like I just can't stop...I've told myself more than once to retire from collecting keris but always tak boleh tahan. Maybe I'm hooked for life...

Alam Shah

24th August 2005, 03:10 AM

Looks like I just can't stop...I've told myself more than once to retire from collecting keris but always tak boleh tahan. Maybe I'm hooked for life...
Well, we can help you, by buying all pieces that you're interested in. ;)
We're here for you. It would be nice to see your collection, though. Do create a gallery at Kampungnet. (In a day or two...) :D

Raja Muda

24th August 2005, 05:58 AM

Abang John,

The suspense is killing me. Hope to see the two Bugis blades soon, restored to their full glory. BTW, which tukang is going to help out with the restoration?
I have met Syukri recently and he has successfully replicated the extra broad Bugis sampir, though it will take some time before the kemuning wood turns a glorious orange-red-brown patina. :)

John

24th August 2005, 06:52 AM

Shahrial,

Will do some photographing during my next leave and put a few pieces up at the gallery. Will be requiring your kind assistance in the cover design :) and will liaise with you via email in due course.

Yang Mulia Raja Muda,

You've guessed it, indeed Syukri shall be doing the work. He'll need to do some sheath adjustments/realignments, make buntut fitments and carve a kemuning Sulawesi kerdas hulu. Looks like I've inadvertently put myself under scrutiny haven't I? :o Didn't really meant for it to happen this way. :) Seems I now can't extricate myself from putting up pictures upon completion. BTW that's an interesting lineage you have there Raja Muda.

John

29th October 2005, 08:49 AM

The kerises have returned from Kelantan after some restorations. For a peek, click:

Keris Bugis Sulawesi (http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup54&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

Straits Bugis (http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup53&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

The "as received" picture (courtesy of Asoka-arts) is as follows.

Alam Shah

29th October 2005, 01:13 PM

I stand corrected, (mixed up in my earlier post).:o
Bugis Sulawesi (left) and Straits Bugis (right). :D

Congratulations! on these pieces. These are fine blades.;)

The restoration works on the Straits piece is much better than on the Sulawesi sheath. Both look better than before. My personal preference would be a non-lacquered finish.