dha handles for ID

[cedric Le Dauphin]

Hi! everyone

I have a few dha handles to identify. I know that the forum has some specialists of this weapon. Thanks to then for enlightening an amateur on their provenance.
I was also wondering about the recursive subject of the sculpture. The one I have seem to have a "monster" bearing a prince on their back. I thought of Satsuma carried by Kalmasapada, but I don't even know if they exists in the local folklore.
Thanks to all of you

[Ian]

Hi Cedric:

Good to see another dha fancier on the forum.

Lovely carved hilts. All of these appear to be Burmese in origin, or at least in the Burmese style. Many of these hilts are also given a provenance of "hill tribe" -- indicating they may be from the NE area of Burma, traditionally a Shan region but with other ethnic groups as well.

I don't think all of these examples are necessarily Shan or from that area. I have not seen this form of intricate ivory carving, which resembles Chinese carving in style (sometimes with a figure inside the network of vines and leaves), on Thai, Lao or Cambodian knives and swords.

The Shan were originally from China and were forced south in the 13-14th C., so a link to traditional Chinese ivory carving would make sense.

Ian.

[Battara]

Ian would it be correct to say that all of these examples so far are not temple or priest hilts?

[PUFF]

I placed a pic in Dahb's hilt thread here...

http://www.gun.in.th/webboard/index.php?board=27;action=display;threadid=10923

Comments will be translated for you :D

[Ian]

I think that is correct Jose. These are usually seen on knives made for cutting and stabbing rather than for spiritual purposes.

Ian.

Ian would it be correct to say that all of these examples so far are not temple or priest hilts?

[Ian]

PUFF:

What is the dahb directly above the hilt that you posted on that thread?

Ian.
I placed a pic in Dahb's hilt thread here...

http://www.gun.in.th/webboard/index.php?board=27;action=display;threadid=10923

Comments will be translated for you :D

[PUFF]

It 's oval x-section style, found in the northern part of Thailand. We are going to classify this style as an oval hilt family. One guy said that the wooden ones are copies of a silver one. And one guy suggested that the style might be inspired by japanese one.

We still don't know about the carved one. One one guy mentioned that the style could be burmese.

[Mark]

According Fraser-Lu, the fine, pierced ivory carving is a style characteristic of Lower Burma, originating in Moulmien (just above the Malay Peninsula) but now done in Rangoon, the Moulmien industry having died out. Fraser-Lu, "Burmese Crafts," p. 114. According to Egerton, ivory carving in high-relief was a Shan style. Egerton, "An Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms and Those of Nepal, Burma, Thailand and Malaya," p. 85. This, of course, does not tell us whether or not a high-relief carving style is/was found further south, but many (if not most) of the non-pierced, high-relief handles I have seen are on Shan dha, and the pierced styles on Burman dha.

Shan dha
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image402.jpg
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image364.jpg
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image225.jpg
Burman dha
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image245.jpg
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image221.jpg
http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/Images/Image360.jpg

[cedric Le Dauphin]

hi! everyone

Thank you all for your replies.
I also found out the subject was kalmasapada carrying Sutasoma. For your info these handles have been brought back in Europe in the 30's.
Where I'm mixed, it's the ethnic attribution.
On one side I have "Metro Kachin" and the other I have "sham". not beeing a specialist of this region, i don't even know if they are the same people, close neighbours or from distant regions.

[Ian]

The designations of "Metro Kachin" and "Shan" seen in a particular classification scheme may not be correct with respect to the ivory hilt styles. We do see substantial cross over in styles between Kachin and Shan styles among Burman groups. The "Metro" designation implies the adaptation of these respective styles outside their home territories, primarily by Burman groups living in more populated centers. The Kachin, of course, occupy mainly the northern and NW states, while the Shan are mainly in the NE states. Burmans are mainly lowlanders,

The classification system that you refer to takes into account hilt styles, but is also based on blade geometry and scabbard styles. Hope this helps.

Ian.

hi! everyone

Thank you all for your replies.
I also found out the subject was kalmasapada carrying Sutasoma. For your info these handles have been brought back in Europe in the 30's.
Where I'm mixed, it's the ethnic attribution.
On one side I have "Metro Kachin" and the other I have "sham". not beeing a specialist of this region, i don't even know if they are the same people, close neighbours or from distant regions.

[Andrew]

The classification system that you refer to takes into account hilt styles, but is also based on blade geometry and scabbard styles. Hope this helps.

Ian.

And is in desperate need of an update. We need to get with Mark on this as he's been doing a good bit of research on it, I believe. :o

[cedric Le Dauphin]

Hi! everyone
It's even better with the pic that I hadn't the last time.(thank you mark)
And thank you Ian for the explanations.
I promise to keep you posted on this collection.
Best regards
Cedric

[Ian]

PUFF:

I don't want to hijack Cedric's thread, but I am curious about the oval-hilted sword you mention. Do you think that you could start a new thread and post some pictures here about that sword? The reason I ask is because I have a Cambodian sword, very old and much sharpened over the years, with an oval cross section and carved features that suggest a possible Japanese influence.

Any connection between the origin of the sword on the Thai site and Cambodia?

Ian.

It 's oval x-section style, found in the northern part of Thailand. We are going to classify this style as an oval hilt family. One guy said that the wooden ones are copies of a silver one. And one guy suggested that the style might be inspired by japanese one.

We still don't know about the carved one. One one guy mentioned that the style could be burmese.

[PUFF]

I still waiting for pics of the silver one and I will re-post all pics in a new thread. :D