id small pretty letter opener

[vitorvt]

I finally found the forum I was looking for. If it's not here, then I don't know...
I'm Vitor T., I'm in Lisbon, Portugal, and for a few months now I've been trying to identify this small, beautiful letter opener that I inherited from my father.

I've already received the opinion of some experts, namely:
it's not Spanish,
it's from South America,
and the latest, which also seems most likely to me, is that it's a hunting knife "Jagdknicker", probably from eastern Germany or possibly western Central Europe, neo-Gothic style, 19th century around 1850-1860. I would like to confirm this identification.

There are a few issues. The mark or signature Jst. remains unidentified. Another is that after looking at thousands of images of knives and swords on the internet, I have yet to find others with the geometric elements of brass on the handle, or the composition and design of the handle, the figures on the blade, the shape of the blade, or a similar sheath.

Please help.
Thank you.

[Battara]

Greetings and welcome to our little forum!

Since it is European, I'll move this over to the European section where they could provide more help.

I don't know about it being a letter opener, but I like it.

[Sajen]

Hello Vitor,

Welcome to the forum!
In my humble opinion you have a very old and nice "Nicker" (not Knicker) from Germany or from Austria. I have a small collection of these hunting daggers which are also part of the traditional costume in parts of both countries.

Regards,
Detlef

[vitorvt]

Thank you.
Sajen, I happen to have a similar one. But it's not the same thing.

[Sajen]

They come in many different forms but the blade shape is the giveaway. The one in question from you seems to be very old, I never have seen a similar one. But it's for sure a "nicker"!

Regards,
Detlef

[vitorvt]

By very old, do you mean and agree on 1850–1860? Or older?

[Sajen]

By very old, do you mean and agree on 1850–1860? Or older?

I can't put a real date on your nicker but I think that it's clearly from the 19th century.
I personally would clean it up a little bit.

[vitorvt]

Yes, I am waiting for the products to arrive: Renaissance Wax, Metal De-Corroder and Surface Cleaner (advertising aside), steel wool 0000 and scrubbing fiber pads. I don't know if I can clean the black stains, I think they're too ingrained, we'll see.

[gp]

Be carefull if or when cleaning it ...in order not to damage the yellowish ( gold ?) decoration on the blade !


'Bom dia !

It for certain is no letter opener but a smal knife or dagger originating from the region of the Holy Roman Empire (Sacrum Imperium Romanum Nationis Germanicae )based upon the type and decoration of the blade ;
most likely a saint as seen on many coins and coat of arms from Ragusa to Pomerania. Or a later copy of this style from the Iberian region...( the latter could make sense due to the historical Habsburgian connection Mexico, Spain, Austria...)

The type of knife is quite common found like Sajen stated in the Germanic speaking countries and neighbouring countries.

Indeed the grip is very interesting based upon the geometrical decoration which could indicate :

- either a fancy re-creation ( tourist?) at around 1900 or
- what I believe to be a beautiful piece like the filigree art on the grip as one sees in the Mediteranean countries and also Portugal from its style....

What is the grip made of ? Horn or bone?
And the scabbard? what metal and leather? Please use some colorless oil to clean and feed it, brings it back to life and maybe also shows better the decoration on the scabbard ( could help or be an indication of its origin as well) ...

So a lot of questions but anyway a very nice piece for sure !

[vitorvt]

The scabbard needs some special attention, it's a little worn. I think it's made of brass and some sort of leather.
251473251472
I guess the grip is made of horn and resin.
251474
Could my knife be a one-off, a special order, a Frankenknife? How about the signature Jst.? Is there no other similar one?
251464251465

[gp]

The scabbard needs some special attention, it's a little worn. I think it's made of brass and some sort of leather.
251473251472
I guess the grip is made of horn and resin.
251474
Could my knife be a one-off, a special order, a Frankenknife? How about the signature Jst.? Is there no other similar one?
251464251465

it normally is brass indeed, with most of these knives and daggers.
I believe by the looks the grip is horn like you mostly see with the knives of that period, sometimes it is bone...the white colour often turns a little yellow through the times of years of touching
The decoration on the grip is unusual for that type of knive so it could perhaps be custom-made by request for the buyer but the signature is an open question
Never seen something like it, but that doesn't mean much .
Remains the fact that it is a very beautiful and most interesting one !Felicitar :) Your father had good taste

[vitorvt]

Thank you gp. Yes he did.
I just found some similarities with Italian cinquedas.
251497
in "Catalogue of European Daggers 1300 to 1800", by Dashford dean, NY1929, pags. 96, 97.

[gp]

it is getting more and more interesting the origin and relationship with the Iberian region!
as explained with this example, shown in the 2nd one from Venetia and 3rd one
based upon the brass filigree rosaces, although they are bigger daggers

best regards

Gunar

[vitorvt]

Plate XXXV from previous post
251502

[vitorvt]

251506
Sajen, could you post a photo of the tang (the handle, from the top and/or bottom)? Is it the same as mine? Thank you.

[Sajen]

251506
Sajen, could you post a photo of the tang (the handle, from the top and/or bottom)? Is it the same as mine? Thank you.

The ones I've posted are not mine, I've taken the pics from the net! ;) But I can tell you that all I've seen until now don't show the cut outs by the tang. like I said before, it's the most unusual nicker I've seen until now but the blade shape tells me that's a nicker for sure. Therefore my guess is that it's a very old one and was one for a wealthy person.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here is one I have at hand, the most I have stored somewhere.

[Sajen]

251506
Sajen, could you post a photo of the tang (the handle, from the top and/or bottom)? Is it the same as mine? Thank you.

This is a complete different animal, it's a dagger from Algeria. ;)

[Sajen]

The marked "bolster" feature is typical for the most nicker, there are exceptions but the most have this feature.

[Sajen]

Found a few! :D But I have more of them. There are some from the early 20th century. I've bought them when they comes cheap! :D

Left from up to down: 1. Rehwappen, Solingen, 2. Gussstahl, Solingen, 3. unmarked, Fittings silver (925), 4. Puma, Solingen
Right from up to down: 1. A. W. JR. for Anton Wingen Junior, Solingen, 2. unmarked, 3. Ostmark (Austria was called like this during the Nazi area)

[Sajen]

Another very small one with a different blade shape, together with the one from Puma.

[gp]

Hi Detlev,

the bolster indeed looks the same, but that is one and actually the only aspect of similarity, or do I misunderstand you?

- what about the blade and its decoration? None of the German Solingen have the golden Medieval saint decoration or actually any decoration at all

- next to the filigree rosaces on the handle... which are not German but Italian and also found in Spain

- also "the curl"is part of the vitorv' s dagger blade and not the bolster like in all of your examples...

or am I looking into too much detail and perhaps mistaken or wrong ? what are your thoughts ?

[Sajen]

the bolster indeed looks the same, but that is one and actually the only aspect of similarity, or do I misunderstand you?

- what about the blade and its decoration? None of the German Solingen have the golden Medieval saint decoration or actually any decoration at all

- next to the filigree rosaces on the handle... which are not German but Italian and also found in Spain

- also "the curl"is part of the vitorv' s dagger blade and not the bolster like in all of your examples...

or am I looking into too much detail and perhaps mistaken or wrong ? what are your thoughts ?

Hi Gunar,

High class nicker could have decorations on the blade, I've seen a lot with decorations on the blade, can't find many examples online.
The handle decoration is indeed very unusual but frankly I am not aware of a nicker culture in Spain or Italy but there might be nicker in North Italy. I am very positive that the knife in question is a nicker. Also the blade shape tells me that it's a nicker.
Like said before, I guess that the piece in question is a very old example. But I am far away from being an expert on these daggers.
I asked Google KI if nicker are common in South Tyrol.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here a short description from Google KI

[Sajen]

The figure on the blade from Vitor's knife could be Hubertus von Liege, the tutelary saint of the hunters.

[gp]

great, thnx a lot for these examples!

[Sajen]

great, thnx a lot for these examples!

You're welcome!

[vitorvt]

Thank you Sajen, thank you gp, for your interest and for sharing your knowledge and pics.

Sajen, I don't know if the figure is Saint Hubertus von Liege, as the one on my knife has a spear. As for the lady, she is depicted on top of a crescent moon, which indicates that She is Our Lady Mary. And I think that in turn is on top of a snake? I'm going to clean it now.
Yours is a considerable collection, with some very interesting and exquisite pieces, thank you for sharing.
I had no idea that such a variety of knives existed. It is a good theme for collecting, provided that the prices are not exorbitant.

It has been established that it is a nicker, but what about the age? 19th century? Older? Questions and more questions...
Thank you.

[Sajen]

Thank you Sajen, thank you gp, for your interest and for sharing your knowledge and pics.

Sajen, I don't know if the figure is Saint Hubertus von Liege, as the one on my knife has a spear. As for the lady, she is depicted on top of a crescent moon, which indicates that She is Our Lady Mary. And I think that in turn is on top of a snake? I'm going to clean it now.
Yours is a considerable collection, with some very interesting and exquisite pieces, thank you for sharing.
I had no idea that such a variety of knives existed. It is a good theme for collecting, provided that the prices are not exorbitant.

It has been established that it is a nicker, but what about the age? 19th century? Older? Questions and more questions...
Thank you.

Hi Vitor,

Please share pictures when it's cleaned! And be careful with the cleaning, like GP said, there is a risk to remove the golden (?) accents.
It could be Hubertus but it could also be another figure, it's difficult to see due the rust. And yes, it will be from the 19th century, how old exactly I can't say. Your nicker is a real beauty, I never have seen a similar one before.

Regards,
Detlef

[vitorvt]

I'll share the before and after pics. I can already say that the finest steel wool on the market, size 0000, scratches, so don't use it (I tried it somewhere else, no worries). Only artificial fiber pads.

[vitorvt]

251599
Testing.
You can see the use of steel wool at the first third of the blade, counting from the left.
Photographing knives is tricky in terms of lighting.

This one is easier to id:
251605
https://www.hubertus-solingen.com/katalog-1950er-jahre_en.html

[vitorvt]

It’s clean. There was some dirt on it. It looks like the black marks won’t come off. Notice the snake’s tail coiled around the handle.
251609
251610
Thank you for watching and comments.

[vitorvt]

It's clean for now, it was a bit dirty. Apparently the black stains won't come out.
251627
251628
Notice the snake coiled around the cable; what I thought was a crack at the top of the blade is actually the snake coiled up in 3D.
251630251629
251631

[Rick]

I think the blackened areas speak to the age of the Nicker and IMO should they be removed, it would be like refinishing an 18th century piece of furniture. (insert shrug here) ;)

[vitorvt]

I think the blackened areas speak to the age of the Nicker and IMO should they be removed, it would be like refinishing an 18th century piece of furniture. (insert shrug here) ;)
I agree, though I wouldn’t be surprised if it actually dates from the 20th century.

Correction: The AI says it’s a dragon, not a snake.
251684

[gp]

It's clean for now, it was a bit dirty. Apparently the black stains won't come out.
251627
251628
Notice the snake coiled around the cable; what I thought was a crack at the top of the blade is actually the snake coiled up in 3D.
251630251629
251631

forget about the black stains; sometimes it is not possible to "clean" every kind of contamination on a blade but what is most interesting to me is to see 2 different type of "saints" on the blade.

Mother Mary one one side but who would be the other? Normally one only sees Christ, but this one is not Christ...
Never seen that double combination...

But what is the male figure exactly holding in his hands? A spear...? Perhaps St George and the dragon...?

Strange to me is also that there is no kind of Coat of Arms, reference or indication of either the religious nature or aristocratic background of the male figure present...
That indication would normally be present one way or another if one looks at drawings, etchings, coins or medails of the like ...from the Middle Ages to the present...

As for the lady and dragon; only I can think of is ancient Byzantine St. Margaret emerging from the dragon...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_the_Virgin
https://www.unexpectedtraveller.com/st-margaret/

also the "tulip" like decoration above their heads shows similarities with Eastern decorations , be it Ottoman, Byzantine or other of that region.
Although that contradicts the type of blade ....unless it might be Hungarian, Transsylvanian and influenced by the Eastern hemispheres ...
But that is me speculating ...and as we all know; assumptions is the mother of all - beep- ups...☺☺☺
and to talk stones language...is it only my imagination running away with me...?
Well..."you don't always want what you get " is the title of a Stones song as well☻☻☻
So who's next..?

Really lookin' forward to find out more and solving this most interesting issue

[vitorvt]

As the dagger doesn’t fit into any category, I suppose it's probably a special order. In that case, I don't think the details matter. That's why I say it could even be from the 20th century — it's irrelevant.

But it would be interesting to know who the cutler is and where he's from.
Is that a common tang? Are there any similar ones? I think that would be a good clue, as well as what appears to be the signature “Jst.”, of course.

"The best-known story of St George concerns the slaying of a fearsome dragon that lived in Silene, in Libya.
To appease the dragon’s fury, the inhabitants offered the monster two sheep a day. At a certain point, the dragon became more demanding and demanded a human sacrifice. The choice fell at random upon the only daughter of the King of Libya.
At that tragic moment, St George appeared, offering to fight the dragon and free the city from that terrible yoke. He mounted his horse and, with a spear, wounded the dragon. Bringing it bound into the city, he killed it before all the inhabitants, after demanding in return their conversion to Christianity."
in https://www.infopedia.pt/recursos/lendas-portuguesas/$s.-jorge-e-o-dragao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_George_and_the_Dragon
So there we have St George with his spear and the daughter of the King of Libya, and they lived happily ever after.
Perhaps St George and the dragon...?
You were right, gp.