keris, siraui or somethingg else?

[rumpel9]

Hello everyone. I recently acquired this item. As far as I can tell, it originates from South Sumatra. However, I'm not entirely sure what its specific name is. I'm inclined to think it's a keris, as it has a pendokok and a Putri Malu handle. I might be wrong. What do you think?

[Sajen]

Hello Rumpel,

It's not a keris, it's in Palembang style, I would say that it belongs to the kerambit family. If we could call the handle as an effigy of Putra Malu is a little bit diputable. With a little bit of TLC your dagger will look much better. Interesting little dagger! :cool:

Regards,
Detlef

[rumpel9]

Detlef, Thank you.

[Sajen]

Detlef, Thank you.

You're welcome! The wooden parts I would polish with a good oil, linseed, almond or walnut oil for example, the pendokok I would polish up and the blade as well, it would look much better. The handle I would turn by 45 degrees to the front.
When you ever want to part with it, just let me know! ;)

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

I agree. It certainly is not a keris, even though it does have a keris hilt. The hilt may be a replacement, though i don't know what the orginal may have looked like. Nor is it a siraui, which does curve similar to this, but is a single sided blade. Detlef may be correct to place this in the kerambit family.

[Sajen]

Nor is it a siraui, which does curve similar to this, but is a single sided blade.

Here is my siraui for comparison. David is correct, a siraui is always single edged.

[Ian]

Would I be way off the mark to suggest that the OP is a khanjar variant? Double-edged, curved blade, central ridge.

[A. G. Maisey]

I think I'm looking at a married piece.

The hilt is a Palembang keris hilt --- or SE Sumatera at least.

The scabbard looks a bit like some korambi scabbards.

The blade in Jawa would be called "Lawi Ayam" (cock's tail feather), or perhaps jambiyo.

If it had its original hilt instead the keris hilt we might be able to name it as a type, but it does not, so why bother to try to christen it as something it is not?

If you wander around the markets in Jawa you come across this sort of thing a lot, ie, various unrelated elements put together either by user or dealer or collector. They don't really need to have a specific name, because they are outside the parameters for a specific type.

[Sajen]

I think I'm looking at a married piece.

The hilt is a Palembang keris hilt --- or SE Sumatera at least.

The scabbard looks a bit like some korambi scabbards.

The blade in Jawa would be called "Lawi Ayam" (cock's tail feather), or perhaps jambiyo.

If it had its original hilt instead the keris hilt we might be able to name it as a type, but it does not, so why bother to try to christen it as something it is not?

If you wander around the markets in Jawa you come across this sort of thing a lot, ie, various unrelated elements put together either by user or dealer or collector. They don't really need to have a specific name, because they are outside the parameters for a specific type.

Hello Alan,

I personally think that the dagger in question isn't a dealers or collectors marriage. It could very well be a personal dagger which a person in the Palembang area had put together. But like I said, this is my personal opinion and I wouldn't mind adding it to my own collection.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Hello everyone. I recently acquired this item. As far as I can tell, it originates from South Sumatra. However, I'm not entirely sure what its specific name is. I'm inclined to think it's a keris, as it has a pendokok and a Putri Malu handle. I might be wrong. What do you think?

Can you add dimensions?

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, I have no opinion in respect of who might have put it together, none at all, for the simple reason that i have absolutely nothing upon which to base that opinion. To form an opinion, I need evidence, I have none.

However, I do have a picture, & that picture tells me that I'm looking at something that has three or four parts that I have never previously seen combined in a single item.

The blade can be recognised & named, the hilt can be recognised & named, the scabbard appears to have some age and could well have been made for the blade, but can all these parts , assembled as one, be named? To give a name we need a whole group of similar objects that do have a name & a supportable geographic location of origin.

We do not have this.

Then there is the problem of how this implement could be used.

I doubt I would want to use it for anything unless I was wearing a metal mesh glove.

[Sajen]

Detlef, I have no opinion in respect of who might have put it together, none at all, for the simple reason that i have absolutely nothing upon which to base that opinion. To form an opinion, I need evidence, I have none.

However, I do have a picture, & that picture tells me that I'm looking at something that has three or four parts that I have never previously seen combined in a single item.

The blade can be recognised & named, the hilt can be recognised & named, the scabbard appears to have some age and could well have been made for the blade, but can all these parts , assembled as one, be named? To give a name we need a whole group of similar objects that do have a name & a supportable geographic location of origin.

We do not have this.

Then there is the problem of how this implement could be used.

I doubt I would want to use it for anything unless I was wearing a metal mesh glove.

Hello Alan,

There we are again by the name game! :D I haven't given it a name, I just wrote that I would place it to the kerambit family, you said with other words the same. It's just my feeling that someone in the Palembang area has created a personal dagger for self defense. It's a unique piece for sure, like you I never have seen a similar piece before! How it can be used is difficult to say without handling it in person. And I wouldn't mind to add it to my collection!

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, all true.

Except for who might have put it together, & I'm not prepared to speculate on that, simply to ask for one speck of genuine evidence that might be able to support some opinion or another.

Maybe demount the hilt & see what is holding it in place.

If it had a different hilt on it I might be a bit more inclined to be persuaded, but I've simply seen too many of these marriages over the years to want to play guessing games.

[rumpel9]

The item itself is quite small. The dimensions are: Overall length 197 mm; Blade length 125 mm; Blade width 17 mm; Blade thickness 3 mm.