Bichaq but where from...?

[gp]

I considered myself lucky to trade this one ( which I believed to be a Balkan one...;)) for an Ottoman dagger of 47 cm long with a silver scabbard.

The more I look, the more I like it but also the more doubts I have concering the origine...as I never have seen this type of bichaq.

It could as well be not Balkan but Caucasian, Middle East, or even not Ottoman..Asian (India)
Who knows...? ( one of my favourite Jimi Hendrix songs:) )

But can the forum shed a light'on this ...?
and clear up this poor Cloggy from Holland...?
Have I got something? or ?
not and just a Tourist piece...? being taken for a ride...:D
although I think it is quite old, looking at the wear, patina and condition of the material

The length is just under 27 cm total.


Your thoughts please! Much obliged!

[Ian]

gp

I don’t know where this one is from. However, I think you have a quality piece. If I’m not mistaken, the hilt is ivory and not bone.

[gp]

gp

I don’t know where this one is from. However, I think you have a quality piece. If I’m not mistaken, the hilt is ivory and not bone.

Thank you very much for your feedback!

[Jim McDougall]

Ive been looking everywhere, cannot believe the dearth of info on bichaqs. Faktor ("Knives and Daggers" has a BALKAN dagger with ivory decorated with brass studs and circles resembling this, noted as 18th-19th c.

Knives are the hardest thing IMO to identify as they are so personal, and the artisans who made them were so much more prevalent than sword cutlers. The closest you can get is localized conventions and favored traditions prevalent in certain regions.

Like the Hendrix nod :), from what I remember of the 60s in So.Cal. ...Purple Haze man!

So not sure if 'bichag' but certainly a very old, probably Balkan dagger.

Have gotten pretty fired up on knives since you rekindled the puukko thing! so I excavated a pile of old knives acquired years ago in Germany from an eclectic collector so will start a new thread so not to derail here.
Hope those of who who collect knives can help.

[Battara]

From the handle decor, I would say Sarajevo or around there.

[Jim McDougall]

From the handle decor, I would say Sarajevo or around there.

The other Balkan knife in Faktor (Ill get pics tomorrow) has the same designs on the hilt, and it is suggested Bosnian so think you're right Jose.

[RobT]

Hi gp,

Nice dagger. The hilt decoration looks like Sarajevo work to me. Although humble, I don’t think it’s tourist because it appears to have been carefully made and there isn’t any cheap bling meant to catch a tourist’s eye. I suspect that the hilt is bone and the butt cap (which I also suspect is bone) is there to cover up the blood vessel core of the hilt. The brass washer between the hilt and the butt cap is there to hide the line that would show between the two components.

Sincerely,
RobT

[gp]

Hi gp,

Nice dagger. The hilt decoration looks like Sarajevo work to me. Although humble, I don’t think it’s tourist because it appears to have been carefully made and there isn’t any cheap bling meant to catch a tourist’s eye. I suspect that the hilt is bone and the butt cap (which I also suspect is bone) is there to cover up the blood vessel core of the hilt. The brass washer between the hilt and the butt cap is there to hide the line that would show between the two components.

Sincerely,
RobT

thank you for your reply!

I thought as well Sarajevo and not a tourist one but original craftmanship made between 1800-1890.

But as I have not seen a bichaq with this geometrical "format" handle made out of ivory or bone, I wasn't sure
This octagonal grip I do have but in 3 small knives and fully in copper
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=262282&postcount=76

and the "flat"scabbard I have as well , like these 2 and the triangle flat blades of the below picture

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=252723&postcount=42http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=252723&postcount=42
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=262410&postcount=101

but not with the red velvet piece in between the 2 copper scabbard decorations and also all blades are flat and not triangelish parazonium form like this one and also found in English army dagger or earlier the so-called 17th and 18th century's prostitutes daggers * like in the 2 pics) ,
which caused my question mark...

sad part is that except a litttle in Bozo's book, hardly anything to nothing can be found in literature or museums on the Balkan and Bosnian bichaqs.

Seems that my posts with pics here during the last 4 to 5 years are also the only ones with description on the internet as well unfortunately ...
Guess most folks are interested in collecting yataghans and less in having several bichaqs.

Nevertheless regardless answer or not, I remain very happy with this odd one out

[serdar]

I considered myself lucky to trade this one ( which I believed to be a Balkan one...;)) for an Ottoman dagger of 47 cm long with a silver scabbard.

The more I look, the more I like it but also the more doubts I have concering the origine...as I never have seen this type of bichaq.

It could as well be not Balkan but Caucasian, Middle East, or even not Ottoman..Asian (India)
Who knows...? ( one of my favourite Jimi Hendrix songs:) )

But can the forum shed a light'on this ...?
and clear up this poor Cloggy from Holland...?
Have I got something? or ?
not and just a Tourist piece...? being taken for a ride...:D
although I think it is quite old, looking at the wear, patina and condition of the material

The length is just under 27 cm total.


Your thoughts please! Much obliged!

Let me help you 😁

That is not bičak bichaq, that is a Kama in croato serbian in croatia, serbia, bosnia etc. Kama double edged dagger, it is from 19 century there are 18 century examples, made in Foča in Bosnia, they were allso made in Sarajevo.
They are rarer than bosnian made bichaqs on 500 bichaqs there is one kama aproximately.

Everyone call it a bichaq but in land where it originated and neigbour lands it is called kama.
Even today in croatian weapons law it is under section on cold weapons writen term kama for two edged dagger.

P.s. Screenshot of weapons law.

[gp]

Let me help you 😁

…it is from 19 century there are 18 century examples, made in Foča in Bosnia, they were allso made in Sarajevo.
They are rarer than bosnian made bichaqs on 500 bichaqs there is one .

Thanks a lot concerning the determination !
Highly appreciated to have this solved….
Now I can say “vozi Misko”.
= an encouragement from an excellent movie “ ko to tama peva / look who is singing.

in the old times they would say “ loza za muzicar “ to mr. Serdar
( a kind of thanks a lot in the former Yu:)).
As this makes me a happy man !

[serdar]

Thanks a lot concerning the determination !
Highly appreciated to have this solved….
Now I can say “vozi Misko”.
= an encouragement from an excellent movie “ ko to tama peva / look who is singing.

in the old times they would say “ loza za muzicar “ to mr. Serdar
( a kind of thanks a lot in the former Yu:)).
As this makes me a happy man !

No problem, glad to help. 😃👍🏻

[DaveA]

Hi, sorry I missed participating in the hunt!

For future searches, remember there are lots of different ways to spell the name for a knife as well as different names for the same artifact. Search engines are seldom smart enough to look for all the variations.

Here are all the different ways I have seen to spell bichaq:

bıçak, bichaq, bishaq, bichac, pichoq, pichok, pchak, pechak, P’chak
I try to document the ones I find. Here is list on my website with some that might be helpful. Good luck!

https://atkinson-swords.com/nomenclature/name-and-spelliing-equivale.html

[gp]

Hi, sorry I missed participating in the hunt!

For future searches, remember there are lots of different ways to spell the name for a knife as well as different names for the same artifact. Search engines are seldom smart enough to look for all the variations.

Here are all the different ways I have seen to spell bichaq:

bıçak, bichaq, bishaq, bichac, pichoq, pichok, pchak, pechak, P’chak
I try to document the ones I find. Here is list on my website with some that might be helpful. Good luck!

https://atkinson-swords.com/nomenclature/name-and-spelliing-equivale.html

Thank you! Subject to the region, even within a certain country, the name used for a knife or dagger can change, leading sometimes to confussion.

Where one names a knife in the former Yugoslavia sometimes cakija, another would call it kama or noz…..

dagger called kama (Bulgaria, Macedonia) or bodez(Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia), bodalo in Slovenia

And biçak is a knife in Turmenian, where it was the name for a dagger in the Ottoman Empire….

It’s all in the eyes of the beholder it seems here as well:D

As for some more info historically:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=250902&postcount=24


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=250903&postcount=25


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=251782&postcount=26


And for those interested in literature, please scroll down in this link :

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16355&highlight=Books