A large auction lot of ivory hilted Moro kris and gunong

[Ian]

This lot of 11 ivory-hilted kris and gunong was offered recently online by a Philippines auction site. Ten of the items appear to be 20th C pieces, while there is one kris in the center of the upper row that seems to have an earlier blade. The dress of these weapons is consistent with 20th C Maranao work, with silver and gold-washed mounts. I think the style of hilts and most of the scabbards is from the early 20th C, say 1920s-1930s.

An interesting collection of Moro weapons from a particular period. The seller of this lot was asking a high price for the collection. It did not sell. The price and ivory content may have discouraged overseas' bidders.
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[Rick]

Did anyone bid on these Ian?

[Ian]

No Rick. The lot was passed without a bid. I will PM the listing to you.

[milandro]

in most countries Ivory is now a no go to buy and officially import , even if form before 1947

I have posted before on the subject

https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28015&highlight=ivory+milandro

in the EU the only entities which can purchase ivory for a public sourced are museums

there is a very good chance that even transporting agencies would refuse handling ivory items

[xasterix]

in most countries Ivory is now a no go to buy and officially import , even if form before 1947

I have posted before on the subject

https://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28015&highlight=ivory+milandro

in the EU the only entities which can purchase ivory for a public sourced are museums

there is a very good chance that even transporting agencies would refuse handling ivory items

It's not so difficult to receive ivory, from a Filipino POV (importation, incoming). However, it's very difficult- or probably even impossible- to export ivory (PH to other countries).

[milandro]

not in Europe

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_6888

most couriers would simply refuse to transport too

Selling Ivory is only permitted for sale to museums in Europe so a private collector, these days , can only keep the stuff he has

Frankly speaking a lot of people I know avoid Ivory and the results of the sale show it too

a Cites certificate is NOT sufficient anymore

"...Import of ivory is prohibited, except for very narrow exemptions. It is only permitted under strict conditions for pre-1975 musical instruments, and for antiques (artefacts from before 1947) if sold to a museum..."


So, In EUROPE the only people who can import and sell any Ivory can ONLY do so if selling to a MUSEUM that is if they want to do it LEGALLY


This makes buying Ivory practically valueless for an European buyer

[Ian]

It's not so difficult to receive ivory, from a Filipino POV (importation, incoming). However, it's very difficult- or probably even impossible- to export ivory (PH to other countries).Hi Xas,

There is a significant risk importing any ivory-containing item into Australia. Like the U.S. and Europe, we have enforcement of CITES regulations and confiscation/destruction of ivory-containing items without the required certification, which is expensive and difficult to obtain. Thus, this lot would have been of little interest to (law-abiding) collectors in countries that enforce the CITES requirements.

Regards, Ian

P.S. Did you happen to know the collector who put this lot up for auction?

[xasterix]

Hi Xas,

There is a significant risk importing any ivory-containing item into Australia. Like the U.S. and Europe, we have enforcement of CITES regulations and confiscation/destruction of ivory-containing items without the required certification, which is expensive and difficult to obtain. Thus, this lot would have been of little interest to (law-abiding) collectors in countries that enforce the CITES requirements.

Regards, Ian

P.S. Did you happen to know the collector who put this lot up for auction?

PH is also a CITES partner, but laws aren't enforced as much... 3rd world country nuances lol. I know the source collection of those blades, but not exactly who commissioned it (may have been an intermediary)

[Ian]

Thanks Xas. Would you care to comment on the age and dress of these items?

[Pertinax]

Are milk tusks also banned?

[xasterix]

Thanks Xas. Would you care to comment on the age and dress of these items?

The blade on the middle has potential to be old, but i can't tell for sure because the gangya is obstructed. The leftmost and rightmost, I'm guessing are pre-WW2 at least. The dresses could have been made from 1920s-1970s.

Here's another kris from that collection, sorry i can't show the whole thing in deference to the owner. But you'll notice the dress is virtually the same- except this kris has a molar ivory pommel.

The ex-collector collected a massive number of pieces in Davao in the 1970s.

[Ian]

Thanks for sharing that additional example Xas. Very much in the same style as the other ones shown here. The ex-collector must have had quite some collection. It's interesting that this style of Moro dress lasted until the 1970s. In my experience more common vintage items that come on the market often show plainer and less refined decorative work. The hilts and scabbards shown here look to be higher quality, and perhaps that's partly why I have not see them very often over the last 30+ years.

It would be interesting to know more about the Moro craftsmen who produced this high quality work and whether it was a single family or particular community that were responsible.


As an afterthought, those looking to sell these items might have more success through offering them in smaller, less expensive lots. I understand the desire to sell a sub-collection in a reasonably intact state, but in this case a major buyer failed to emerge.

[Battara]

I will agree with your notations folks. Later than 19c pieces.

The style of okir and style of chasing work, though very good, is later as in WW2 and later.

That being said, I love the brass and silver chasing work on this last kris posted.

[kino]

The Mammoth molar pommel above and this one looks similar.
I wonder if it’s carved by the same person….we’ll never know.

[thomas hauschild]

I think there will be the same issues with the molar tooth. If declared as mammoth molar too. A hundred years ago nobody dig for mammoth molar in siberia or alaska while these tooth were availiable from the same source as tusk…….asian elephants. My informations are that all kind of materials from elephants are banned like molar tooth and leather ( if you had the chance to hold elephant leather in your hand you well ever identify it). The chance to get „trouble“ with customs will be lower..maybe.

Schreger lines in tusk will be different from elephant and mammoth. A research will give the possibility to proof if it‘s mammouth or not and a possibility for customs to decide if illegal or not. I do not know if there are visible differences if you compare molar tooth. So there will be a risk if you just say „believe me it is mammoth“ As a knifemaker I have grinded some fresh molar and some mammoth molar. The smell is realy different. And the color was nearly the same from that fresh tooth in comparison to that grips on the pictures above.


Best Thomas

[Battara]

But fossil mammoth (or more likely mastodon) is millions of years old. This would be banned too?

[thomas hauschild]

But fossil mammoth (or more likely mastodon) is millions of years old. This would be banned too?

Mammouth is legal. IMHO on this pieces we see elephant. At the end somebody will need to convince customs, that a specific piece is mammouth or not.