van Gogh Zeybek yatagan translation assistance

[Klop]

Dear fellow members,

I found this T-handled (Zeybek) yatagan, unfortunately it's missing an ear.
It was brown but cleand up rather easliy, and from under the rust some insriptions appeared. The year 1285 (1868) I get but for the rest of the text I have no clue what it says. Can someone read and translate this? Next to the year I wouldn't be surprised if it's the makers name, when holding the blade that is the left side. The right side has the longer text, from the looks of it only words and no numbers.

Thanks in advance!
Eric.

[Jim McDougall]

VAN GOGH yataghan!!! Good one Eric!!! :) love it!

[kronckew]

You could also more accurately call it Trump, ince it's the right ear.:D

[Klop]

yep, the right side is lost but I elected Vincent over Donald :-)
The intact left grip is one piece, the 90 degrees angle must have been done with some heat. 14,5 cm following the inside of the curve. Probably sourced from some local type of goat.

Kind regards,
Eric.

[werecow]

You could also more accurately call it Trump, ince it's the right ear.:D

He's nowhere near as sharp. :D

(Sorry, could not resist.)

[Rafngard]

He's nowhere near as sharp. :D

(Sorry, could not resist.)

The sharpest of all time! So sharp folks! So sharp, it'll cut things you've never even heard of. I call it, shippy sharp.
That's right, shippy sharp.

*plays an invisible accordion*

[Lee]

OK, I see and appreciate the humor, but NO more politics unless you want to take a vacation from here until the election is passed.

[Jim McDougall]

Getting back to the topic, Ive had one of these for some time, and when discovering it was attributed to the ZEYBEKS, I was intrigued as it was another esoteric example of these Anatolian/ Transcaucasian regions' edged weapons .

Many of us of course remember the 'Black Sea yataghan' thing, which turned out to be a Laz weapon.

In the obscure title "A Magyar Faji Vandur" (J.Vichy, Budapest, 1897) which was cited in "The Origin of the Shashka", Triikman & Jacobsen, Copenhagen, 1941, some of these weapons with curious pommel styles and unusually curved blades are described.

The Zeybeks are described at 'outlaw/bandits' with very complicated origins who seem situated in 'Pontic' regions in E, Turkey, but this needs to be better explained by those well versed in ethno-geography there.
It seems the Laz group are equally described as outlaw-bandit etc.
The Zeybeks seem notably mentioned in the conflicts and insurgencies in these regions in late 19th into early 20th c.

It seems that the edged weaponry of these areas Georgia; Armenia; Azerbijian; Trebizon, Erzerum and the Transcaucusus, Anatolia in general have some of the most unusual features and characteristics of most. Further, they seem to defy any pragmatic explanation for these, and it seems are not 'old' forms, almost as if to in some ways relate to atavistic forms or perhaps exaggerated symbolism.

I'd like to hear thoughts and observations on what you guys think......why are these weapons so weird? :)
Being an aviation guy......the T-tail on the Zeybek reminds me of a DC-9, but thats of course not relevant.

[Klop]

I have another T-handle, in that case might even be the same one horn split lengthwise. Can't see the rest because some laquered kind of linen wrap. The solid point transfers to hollow and the back of the hand faces flat surfaces. In case of the "van Gogh" the ears are both solid and not flat, better quality. The T is a great way to prevent it slipping out of the hand - one of many variations to achieve that goal. It feels kinda naked missing the one ear, especially because I'm right handed.

But the real topic is the translation request, I'd still like to know what is written in the blade :-)

kind regards,
Eric.

[werecow]

Since this one changed hands today and now resides with me (with a prosthetic right ear), I'll bump this thread in the hopes of finding a translation for the longer inscription on the right side. :D

[werecow]

I'd like to hear thoughts and observations on what you guys think......why are these weapons so weird? :)
Being an aviation guy......the T-tail on the Zeybek reminds me of a DC-9, but thats of course not relevant.

So, just from holding this (fairly hefty) yataghan now, it occurs to me that this T section grip is very supportive of the long draw cuts in the style that Matt Easton demonstrates here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfhC_c2Zbh0

Note how you basically drag the blade along behind the hand. A T section grip is very secure in this case because all the force is directed straight into that T. So if I had to make a guess, I would suggest that that T is more or less intended for "dragging" the sword along in a wide full body slashing motion. Of course, the sword curves the other way, and I am not trained in Zeybek swordsmanship (or really any swordsmanship other than modern fencing), so that is purely a (not very) educated guess.

On a side note, I have a pretty hefty Syrian shamshir and a related thought occurred to me; that sword is quite unwieldy unless you make those slashing cuts. When you do, you basically drag the point along after the rest of the blade along the curve of the shamshir and the momentum of the thing feels quite natural and even assists the cut (as far as I can tell from moving it at moderate speed in my living room without any target to strike).

EDIT: Although with this forward curve it does of course feel more "choppy" than "slashy". So maybe my intuition is off? Someone more knowledgeable than I please comment. :o

[serdar]

So, just from holding this (fairly hefty) yataghan now, it occurs to me that this T section grip is very supportive of the long draw cuts in the style that Matt Easton demonstrates here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfhC_c2Zbh0

Note how you basically drag the blade along behind the hand. A T section grip is very secure in this case because all the force is directed straight into that T. So if I had to make a guess, I would suggest that that T is more or less intended for "dragging" the sword along in a wide full body slashing motion. Of course, the sword curves the other way, and I am not trained in Zeybek swordsmanship (or really any swordsmanship other than modern fencing), so that is purely a (not very) educated guess.

On a side note, I have a pretty hefty Syrian shamshir and a related thought occurred to me; that sword is quite unwieldy unless you make those slashing cuts. When you do, you basically drag the point along after the rest of the blade along the curve of the shamshir and the momentum of the thing feels quite natural and even assists the cut (as far as I can tell from moving it at moderate speed in my living room without any target to strike).

EDIT: Although with this forward curve it does of course feel more "choppy" than "slashy". So maybe my intuition is off? Someone more knowledgeable than I please comment. :o

You are corect, yataghan blades were used in a such way that they would hack with it and pull, same with zeybek like with any other yataghan, some blades are warped becouse of choping with them, but technique was basicaly hack, or hook, or strike and pull, in very close combat just pull.
Shamshir and other similary curwed swords (pulwars etc.) they were more pike meat slicer movement, slashong and cutting in circular moves.

[serdar]

That longer inscription could be names of sleepers and their dog.

[serdar]

Here is translation, after year, says made by Hadzi Husein, owner Ahmed-aga,
Other side are the names of the sleepers and their dog, it has a talismanic properties.
With regards.

[werecow]

Many thanks! :)