Keris Bugis Raja Gundala

[Lei Shen Dao]

Dear members

I would like to know your opinion about this Javanese Keris that I have in my possesion the last year.

I was told that it is pamor Raja Guntala and the name of it is Belanak Makan Makani / "the Belanak (fish) eating his food".
You can see quite clearly the head of a fish at the base. Along the length of the blade is a larger fish chasing a smaller one. At the base, above the fish head, is the form of a man swimming.

It is very old (at least I was told) but it would be interesting to know the possible era, dapur etc.

Thanks guys :)

[Rick]

Lei ,
But I just don't see what you are describing in the pamor .
I do see a form that reminds me of a Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker ; but I see no fish head nor any man swimming .

I guess that sometimes looking at pamor and interpreting it is like watching clouds .
Then again that is just me ; your and others' mileage may vary .

Again , I speak only for myself and certainly as no 'expert' .

Rick

[Lei Shen Dao]

Hi Rick

You are by far a lot more "expert" than me at least.

Yes, I can understand your point and of course this is the case many times with the "pamor reading ;) ".

But, if you see in the first picture you will see the image of a fish chasing a smaller one to eat it. The name of the fish is Belanak (a wild fish in Indonesia I was told...).
In the second picture in the base is a form that remindes the head of a fish (like an epinephelous) with it's mouth slightly open. Above the head of the fish and in the left side, is seems that there is the form of a man (head, two legs) if you see it from a diagonal view. If you see the blade form close distance, it is more obvious.

The interesting thing is that the name of the pamor from the seller was Belanak Makan Makani (named after the form of the Belanak), something that I have never encounder before.

In any case though, you are correct. Fantasy can play many games to a wissfull mind :D

Thanks for your post.

[Lei Shen Dao]

By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker" :confused:

[Lei Shen Dao]

Guys
Thank you very much for trying to help me. :rolleyes:

You are very helpfull

[Pangeran Datu]

By the way, what is "Pepperidge Farm Goldfish cracker" :confused:

An American icon, the GOLDFISH cracker. Pepperidge Farm has produced its small goldfish-shaped cheddar cheese cracker since 1962.

WRT your keris:
Yes, I can see that you can call it a Raja Gundala - Ikan Belanak Makan Makane.
A Raja Gundala usually occurs as a dwiwarna, the other being e.g. Beas Utah, Pulo Tirta.
Try to see whether the Raja Gundala is Tiban or carved/etched, the former being more prized by connoiseurs for its divine qualities.

Regards.:)

[Lei Shen Dao]

Dear Pangeran

Thank you very much for your contribution.
It is pamor Tiban from what I know, but I don't have a clue about the dapur and the tanguh. I know it isn't easy to say from some pictures.

Anyway, thank you for your help.

[BluErf]

Oh, that's a real good likeness!! :) I've always enjoyed looking for rojo gondolo on kerises with pamor tiban.

I've got a few:

Sleeping bear:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup66&id=Solo_gayaman_5c_hujan_emas_ganja_emas_base&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Moustachioed man with gaping mouth:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup39&id=Ladrangan_Yogya_carita_6a_blade_ganja_aring&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Screaming face reminiscent of the mask from "I know what you did last summer", I think:
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=album55&id=Keris_solo_ladrangan_5e_tip&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

And I have a "fetus" rojo gondolo in a "womb" (actually, a qul buntet):

[Alam Shah]

Tengkurizan @ Kampungnet have a number of these pamor Raja Gundala, (some with illustrations).

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup95&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

This pamor tiban with illustrations...to make it clearer.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albuq09&id=Keris_Bugis_Selawesi_Luk_25_Pamor_Ganjil_B_Outl ine&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Another interesting piece pamor tiban piece with outline.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albuq44&id=Keris_Bugis_Riau_Sepukal_Pamor_Ganjil_A_Outline d&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Sepokal, I hope you don't mind. ;)

[nechesh]

This is fun! Though i wonder just how far one can stretch the imagination and still refer to the pamor as tiban.
Thanks for the outline work Shahrial, but i think i would actually rather see these without to be able to judge better for myself just how obvious the pattern is. That last one you link to is particularly cool. I realize it isn't your keris, but do you have any idea is the blade is really rosy pink at the base as it appears, or is that just a trick of the light?

[Alam Shah]

This is fun! Though i wonder just how far one can stretch the imagination and still refer to the pamor as tiban.
Thanks for the outline work Shahrial, but i think i would actually rather see these without to be able to judge better for myself just how obvious the pattern is. That last one you link to is particularly cool. I realize it isn't your keris, but do you have any idea is the blade is really rosy pink at the base as it appears, or is that just a trick of the light? You're mistaken...the outline work were done by Tengkurizan himself. I merely provided the link. All are Tengkurizan's pieces. It's the lights, alright. ;)

Tiban literally means unplanned. What you're seeing is supposedly pamor Raja Gundala, afaik. Just to clarify. :)

[nechesh]

Ah.... then perhaps Tengkurizan might be able to provide a undoctored photo (or maybe there already is one in the full grouping of the photos of this keris).
I am aware of the meaning of Tiban, but thanks for the clarification.....and it's too bad that pink is only a trick of the light, or it would really be an interesting find. :)

[Satria]

These are the sample of Raja Gundala pamor too.
I have 7 blades which have raja gundala pamor.


In this picture you will find the figure of the " puthut ".
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4972/puthutluk15rajagundalawoswutah.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In this picture you will find 2 raja gundala pamor.
The first one is in the " sor-soran"...you will find the figure of sitting tiger. ( this is raja gundala pamor ???? )
The second one is in the middle of blade ( near the top of picture )...you will find the figure of ghost. ( this is real raja gundala pamor ).
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8304/tilamupihmacankumbang43wk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In this picture you will find the figure of human ( or Ghost? ) in the top of sogokan. In my imagination is look like "wali"...look at the hat...and look the hand with "chi" ready to send hehehehe.
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7955/jangkungrajagundalawoswutahpaj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[nechesh]

Thanks fror the pictures Satria. Is the first one truly and example of Raja Gundala? It appears to be accentuated with carving, not merely the pamor itself.

[Satria]

Thanks fror the pictures Satria. Is the first one truly and example of Raja Gundala? It appears to be accentuated with carving, not merely the pamor itself.

Thanks Nechesh....
That is not carving....actually in the edge of body of puthut figure is the line of sogokan. Sorry the picture is not good enough.
This is the other side of that "sor-soran".....still puthut figure too but not so clear like the other one.This picture is not good enough too.....sorry.
http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/3033/bputhutluk15rajagundalawoswuta.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Rick]

Being skeptical about the first Raja Gundala figure being unimproved myself ; it's just too realistic . The other side does look more naturally occurring ; no insult intended here Satria .

I'm interested in finding out more about this ; but it seems to me as a Westerner that these interpretations of random pamor patterns are pretty subjective .

As I said on this subject in my earlier post " like interpreting the shapes of clouds " ; it's in the eye of the beholder .

[Lei Shen Dao]

Hey guys

Nice photos :) !
Interesting stuff. The truth is that generally some images/forms are too obvious and of course as Rick said, others maybe just wissfull thinking.
Being interested more in the esoteric and the pamor aspect, I have an affection for Raja Guntala.
I'll try to post a photo of a very interesting tiban with 5 images in the sor-soran area, one of them a flykick!

But I am trying to find the possible tanguh of this keris and the dapur.
It isn't tilam upih, is it?

[Alam Shah]

Hey guys. Nice photos :) !
But I am trying to find the possible tanguh of this keris and the dapur.
It isn't tilam upih, is it? The dapur does looks like Tilam Upih to me. ;)

[VANDOO]

AHA! FINALLY SOMETHING RELATING TO KERIS I AM GOOD AT :D I CAN SEE THE THINGS YOU POINT OUT AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER THINGS. MY FAVORITE KERIS IS LIKE LOOKING AT FLAMES, SMOKE AND CLOUDS YOU CAN SEE MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND OFTEN MANY THINGS AT ONCE.

[Alam Shah]

AHA! FINALLY SOMETHING RELATING TO KERIS I AM GOOD AT :D I CAN SEE THE THINGS YOU POINT OUT AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER THINGS. MY FAVORITE KERIS IS LIKE LOOKING AT FLAMES, SMOKE AND CLOUDS YOU CAN SEE MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND OFTEN MANY THINGS AT ONCE. Vandoo, don't be shy..:D we wanna see yours...too. As the saying goes... "a picture shows a thousand word, the question is which one...". Last used in The Da Vinci Code movie, where Tom Hanks was giving a lecture with an onscreen display. ;)

[Lei Shen Dao]

Thanks Alam :)
Give the photos to the world Vandoo :D

[BluErf]

I'm interested in finding out more about this ; but it seems to me as a Westerner that these interpretations of random pamor patterns are pretty subjective .

As I said on this subject in my earlier post " like interpreting the shapes of clouds " ; it's in the eye of the beholder .

Yes Rick, you are right - its in the eye of the beholder. :) Thus, different people would see different things, and sometimes, miss something completely. I guess it's the keris' way of 'communicating' with the owner. :)

[Isreena]

Hello People,

Mr Lei Seh Dao,
Your earliar picture of Raja Gundolo is not a FISH? It is actually a symbol of "LAM ALIF" or "LAM JALALA". One of the Arabic letter of alphabet. I suspect that it is not tiban. It is a planned pamor. No doubt, it is indeed a very good pamor symbol in a keris.

Mr Satria,
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo.

By the way guys? What pink light are you guys talking about? The shape of the pamors have been highlighted with different colours for easy viewing. :o

[nechesh]

Mr Lei Seh Dao,
Your earliar picture of Raja Gundolo is not a FISH? It is actually a symbol of "LAM ALIF" or "LAM JALALA". One of the Arabic letter of alphabet. I suspect that it is not tiban. It is a planned pamor. No doubt, it is indeed a very good pamor symbol in a keris.

I noticed this also, bit for some reason failed to comment. Martin Kerner talks about this in "Keris in the Magic World View". I think you are possibly right that this part of the pamor IS intentional. However, the "big" fish chasing it could perhaps still be considered Raja Gundolo.



I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo.


I agree here also......don't you... Ricky? :D :rolleyes:


By the way guys? What pink light are you guys talking about? The shape of the pamors have been highlighted with different colours for easy viewing. :o

You are right, i can now see that the "pink" color is actually from a red highlighter around the inner pamor. :o

You see that too....don't you Ricky? ;)

[Rick]

I noticed this also, bit for some reason failed to comment. Martin Kerner talks about this in "Keris in the Magic World View". I think you are possibly right that this part of the pamor IS intentional. However, the "big" fish chasing it could perhaps still be considered Raja Gundolo.




I agree here also......don't you... Ricky? :D :rolleyes:



You are right, i can now see that the "pink" color is actually from a red highlighter around the inner pamor. :o

You see that too....don't you Ricky? ;)

All right Davey ; no hassling the Moderator . :mad: :D

Isreena the name is Rick ; not the diminutive form 'Ricky' . :)

As for the 'pinkness' around the pamor I can't see it cause kampung net takes forever to download on my computer and times out . :(

[nechesh]

Ohhh Lucy! :D :D :D

[Rick]

Ohhh Lucy! :D :D :D

Okay buster ; it's Frederick to you from now on ........ :rolleyes:

[Andrew]

You see that too....don't you Ricky? ;)

lol! :D

[Andrew]

Ohhh Lucy! :D :D :D

You've got some explaining to do! :p

[Rick]

You've got some explaining to do! :p

Just for the record (no pun) I am not a Cuban Band Leader/TV Star . :D

[Satria]

Mr Satria,
I'm sorry but I have to agree with Ricky. The pamor Pendita you are having is not a pamor tiban. To have both side having the same looking picture made it worse to be categorized as pamor tiban. However, it is a very good effort to make the pamor to look like a Raja Gundolo.



Mr. Isreena...
Thank for your comment.
Actually I will not claim that pamor raja gundala ( pandita ) in that keris is original. My point is just showing the sample of pamor raja gundala....and that is not carving stuff. ;)
I ever post that keris in this forum with question old keris or reforging keris.( please search use my name ). Some people said that keris is Pajang era, but in my opinion that keris is reforging keris from old material.
The problem is......that raja gundala pamor ( pendita ) maybe not "pamor tiban ", so maybe "pamor rekan". :).
I hope you got my point.

In my opinion....original pamor raja gundala is Tiban ( unplanning ) and another people must be so easy to image the illustrate of pamor raja gundala ( ex. human, ghost, animal ).....and of course from old keris is much better :D

************
Just for info....this is part of my collection :

http://midinakeris.fotopic.net/

thanks.

[Lei Shen Dao]

Mr. Isreena

Thank you for your infos.

I tryied all night to find these "letters" in the net to have a clue, although like Nechesh said it is most likely the belanak that chase the small fish to be pamor tiban (I was told that is tiban all the way though).

But I have never heard before about these kind of letters in the pamor, so I find that very very interesting and quite a new knowledge for me.

Martin Kerner's book, is there anywere to buy it?

[Alam Shah]

Martin Kerner's book, is there anywere to buy it?Try here...
Bookfinder (German)
http://www.bookfinder.com/german/search/?author=Martin+Kerner&title=&submit=Begin+search&new_used=*&currency=SGD&mode=basic&st=sr&ac=qr

Note that the books are in German. For The Keris Ki Sudamala, there is a translated English version.

[nechesh]

Try here...
Bookfinder (German)
http://www.bookfinder.com/german/search/?author=Martin+Kerner&title=&submit=Begin+search&new_used=*&currency=SGD&mode=basic&st=sr&ac=qr

Note that the books are in German. For The Keris Ki Sudamala, there is a translated English version.

There is also an English edition of "Keris in the Magic World View", but it is cetainly out of print. My own copy is a xeroxed version. :)

[Zack_antik]

Dear members

sorry removing my post and post new thread. Thanks

[Ian]

This active thread belongs with the new keris forum, so over it goes.

Ian.

[David]

Thanks Ian and welcome Zack. :)
Well, i think the thing about Pamor Raja Gundala is that it is somewhat up to YOUR imagination, unless it is something undisputably obvious. This looks like a standing figure to me and the head looks somewhat skull-like. What do you see? :)

[Zack_antik]

Dear members

I'm new to this forum, i would like to know your opinion or comments about this Bugis Keris that i've bought. I was told that it is pamor tiban called Raja Gundala, it's from old blade with new ivory fittings, i really need you guys or those expert on keris to comment on it. Thanks.
Rgds,
Zack

[Ian]

.

[Henk]

Zack,

Welcome to the forum. You'd better post your questions about keris in the forum Keris Warung Kopi. But i suppose our moderators will move this threat to that place.

Better show us some pictures of the entire blade and the complete keris with scabbard and ukiran.
My first impression is that this blade is javanese, mounted in a Sumatran dress. Not very unusual because javanese blades where highly appreciated and brought to Sumatra.

[Rick]

Agree with Henk ; from what I can see the blade has a Jawa style look to it .
More pictures please . :)

[David]

My first impression is that this blade is javanese, mounted in a Sumatran dress. Not very unusual because javanese blades where highly appreciated and brought to Sumatra.

This well may be Henk, but it is also my understanding that the Sumatran and Javanese courts where somewhat linked for a time and that the form of Sumatran pieces where styled after the Javanese during this period. I'd have to do some research to come up with the specifics of the whens and whys. I would also like to see the full length of the blade, but i wouldn't rule out that it may truly have a Sumatran origin.

[A. G. Maisey]

It is a bit difficult to be too definite about blade origin when all that can seen is a part of the sorsoran, and the blade is being viewed wrong way around. A full length photo, with the gandik to the left of the photo would assist with identifacation.
That said, my feeling at the moment is that we are not looking at a Javanese blade, but I cannot yet see enough to be any more definite.

[Rick]

This one seems similar to the example shown .
I have a feeling it is Sumatran .

[David]

If i had you say i don't think i would vote for Javanese origins on this keris. I think it is probably Sumatran. This blade seems to have Bugis influences to me.

[Rick]

If we're going to discuss pamor Raja Gundala I think that David is wise to suggest merging these threads to avoid confusion .

As I have said before unless the image presented is fairly unmistakable then personally I feel it is a matter left up to the individual .

As for the dapur of the keris Zack has presented; I must reverse myself and say it appears Sumatran from what little I can see; the contrast in the pamor was my original downfall . :o

Come in Zack; we need more visual input; I cannot make out anything concrete to my eyes in the pamor you have shown. :o

[Zack_antik]

:) Thank you all.. for the reply. Here i include more photos for your viewing. I'm a bit confused now as what i've been told that the keris is of Bugis origin, but not Sumatra or Javanese.

[Alam Shah]

The 1st blade looks like a bugis-influenced blade, probably a Straits piece.

Rick, yours although looks similar, but not the same. ;) Metal composition is different and there are other subtle differences, as well.

(BluErf could fill-in for the subtle differences... :D ).

[Rick]

Thank you for the input Alam Shah; could you elaborate a bit on both pieces and their differences ?

I can see the difference in the contrast of the pamors .
Could you possibly offer an opinion of the origin of each one ?

Is there any signifigance to the open space between the gonjo and the blade in the greneng area on these two keris .

Sorry to plague you with so many questions but my curiousity burns . :o :)

[Rick]

I can see; after some coaching, a skull like head with a swollen cranium and possibly a body below dressed in robes on Zack's sorsoran .

[David]

The 1st blade looks like a bugis-influenced blade, probably a Straits piece.

Rick, yours although looks similar, but not the same. ;) Metal composition is different and there are other subtle differences, as well.

(BluErf could fill-in for the subtle differences... :D ).

Yep, now that we see the whole blade i will more definitely commit to say Bugis influenced, not from Jawa, but i will leave it to our more peninsula oriented friends (sorry, i am not sure how better to say that, but you know who you are :) ) to pinpoint exactly where it is from. Since the Bugis migrated abouut quite a bit and brought their keris making influences with them, i personally find it hard to ID orgins on these blades, missing the subtlties that folks like Alam Shah and BluErf seem to be able to pick out so well.
Nicely dressed BTW, beautiful patina . :)
I also love that display stand Zack. Did you purchase it or make it yourself? I am often stumped on how to display my Bugis keris since they don't really fit well in Javanese and Balinese holders. That one looks great. :)

[Zack_antik]

Thanks David,
For your input and appraisal on my Keris, for the Keris stand i bought it from Malay Art Gallery in Singapore.

[Alam Shah]

... for the Keris stand i bought it from Malay Art Gallery in Singapore.I thought so, that's where I've seen it. ;)

[David]

Thanks David,
For your input and appraisal on my Keris, for the Keris stand i bought it from Malay Art Gallery in Singapore.

Thanks Zack. Adni has been holding out on me, i've never seen that stand for sale. :)

[BluErf]

Hi guys,

Been buried by work recently, and didn't have time to join the action. :) Well, going to be very busy until end of September, at least.

Ah, I remember Zack's keris very well, because I was very interested in it too! :) It is definitely a Straits Bugis blade, and a very fine one too. The pamor is very well controlled both in terms of staying within the confines of the blade and the tightness. The luks are gracefully meandering and the tip is a very well-formed 'dome' tip. I would say the blade is nearly as fine as the golden keris on the cover of Court Arts of Indonesia.

The blade has been "washed" (etched with warangan) in Java, hence the high contrast and Javanese look. Washing influences the look of a keris very much. Straits Bugis refer to the Bugis who stay on either side of the Melaka Straits, mostly in the Riau islands, Johore and Selangor. Their blades were generally 'sweeter' and more refined than Sulawesi keris blades. I have no idea why, even though Sulawesi was the home island of the Bugis.

The fittings were, in my opinion, contemporary and made in Java. The ivory were stained to achieve the yellow-orange colour, which differed somewhat from the orange stain used in Sumatra. See 1st pic. However, this would not detract from the fact the sheath is very well made.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup64&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

The pistol-grip hilt is nice, but if you look carefully, has a head which differs subtlely from a typical Straits Bugis hilt. Specifically, the forehead was protruding a bit too much. See next 2 pics.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albun22&id=Sumatran_bugis_luk_7_3_hulu&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=album93&id=Bugis_luk_11_4_hulu_side&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

The pendoko (hilt cup) is rather atypical, though, I'd say its still a pendoko, and proper. See fourth pic for a Bugis/Malay "Melaka cup" pendoko.. The pendok is very fine, and represents very well repoussed Bugis motif.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup35&id=Riau_Bugis_Chieftain_2b_top_sheath&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

The sampir is generally of the correct form, though somewhat flat. See fifih pic for an "archetypal" Sumatran Bugis non-chieftain keris sampir.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albun22&id=Sumatran_bugis_luk_7_2_top_sheath&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

Despite the Javanese origin of the fittings, this is still a very fine Bugis keris with generally proper form, and very beautiful too! And the generous use of ivory adds to the high value of this Bugis keris. I was really short of cash back then, and couldn't afford this keris. Congratulations, Zack! Keep it well.

And as to Rick's blade, I think it is Sumatran too. :) It has a hexagonal cross-section, and the metal looks like those found on Sumatran kerises, and if I see correctly, the pamor is the typical Bugis ujung gunong-kulit semangka combination. The hilt is a keris panjang hilt, with a fitting pendoko.

[Zack_antik]

Hi guys,

Been buried by work recently, and didn't have time to join the action. :) Well, going to be very busy until end of September, at least.

Ah, I remember Zack's keris very well, because I was very interested in it too! :) It is definitely a Straits Bugis blade, and a very fine one too. The pamor is very well controlled both in terms of staying within the confines of the blade and the tightness. The luks are gracefully meandering and the tip is a very well-formed 'dome' tip. I would say the blade is nearly as fine as the golden keris on the cover of Court Arts of Indonesia.

The blade has been "washed" (etched with warangan) in Java, hence the high contrast and Javanese look. Washing influences the look of a keris very much. Straits Bugis refer to the Bugis who stay on either side of the Melaka Straits, mostly in the Riau islands, Johore and Selangor. Their blades were generally 'sweeter' and more refined than Sulawesi keris blades. I have no idea why, even though Sulawesi was the home island of the Bugis.

The fittings were, in my opinion, contemporary and made in Java. The ivory were stained to achieve the yellow-orange colour, which differed somewhat from the orange stain used in Sumatra. See 1st pic. However, this would not detract from the fact the sheath is very well made.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup64&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php)

The pistol-grip hilt is nice, but if you look carefully, has a head which differs subtlely from a typical Straits Bugis hilt. Specifically, the forehead was protruding a bit too much. See next 2 pics.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albun22&id=Sumatran_bugis_luk_7_3_hulu&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=album93&id=Bugis_luk_11_4_hulu_side&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

The pendoko (hilt cup) is rather atypical, though, I'd say its still a pendoko, and proper. See fourth pic for a Bugis/Malay "Melaka cup" pendoko.. The pendok is very fine, and represents very well repoussed Bugis motif.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albup35&id=Riau_Bugis_Chieftain_2b_top_sheath&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

The sampir is generally of the correct form, though somewhat flat. See fifih pic for an "archetypal" Sumatran Bugis non-chieftain keris sampir.
(http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules.php?set_albumName=albun22&id=Sumatran_bugis_luk_7_2_top_sheath&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

Despite the Javanese origin of the fittings, this is still a very fine Bugis keris with generally proper form, and very beautiful too! And the generous use of ivory adds to the high value of this Bugis keris. I was really short of cash back then, and couldn't afford this keris. Congratulations, Zack! Keep it well.

And as to Rick's blade, I think it is Sumatran too. :) It has a hexagonal cross-section, and the metal looks like those found on Sumatran kerises, and if I see correctly, the pamor is the typical Bugis ujung gunong-kulit semangka combination. The hilt is a keris panjang hilt, with a fitting pendoko.

Thank you for all the information given :) Zack

[David]

Thanks Kai Wee for you usually well illustrated and detailed response. Glad you could join us. :)
I did notice something a bit off about this dress and your explanation of it's Jawa origins clears up alot. Not sure i would have figured out the ivory staining either. It does seem to be very even and that would explain why. This does seem unusal to me though. Is there much dress for Straits Bugis keris being made in Jawa these days?