View Full Version : Iron Helmet
Joe1475
8th October 2023, 05:13 PM
Hi,
I'm a new member but not exactly new to the forums. I would first like to say hello. I collect some weapons and armor and practice HEMA on occasion. I used to lean more towards firearms but have always had an affinity for swords. I purchased this helmet from an auction and have received several different versions of stories. So, I wanted to see what the members here can add.
Thank you in advance!
Joe
fernando
8th October 2023, 05:35 PM
Welcome to the forum Joe; hope you enjoy being here :).
Could you post other pictures of your helmet ... in different positions ?
Joe1475
8th October 2023, 05:46 PM
I will try to post some better pictures later but here is another angle.
Thank you
fernando
8th October 2023, 06:23 PM
Missed ? ;)
Joe1475
8th October 2023, 06:28 PM
:)
fernando
8th October 2023, 07:05 PM
Upright now ;).
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fernando
8th October 2023, 07:07 PM
Both ;).
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fernando
9th October 2023, 11:56 AM
So ... Gentlemen; no comments ?
francantolin
9th October 2023, 03:17 PM
:)
Hello,
Rivets seems really new, so ,
is all the helmet newly made and then artificially aged...
Have you a picture of the inside of the helmet/ the nails..
Raf
9th October 2023, 04:08 PM
Hello,
Rivets seems really new, so ,
is all the helmet newly made and then artificially aged...
Have you a picture of the inside of the helmet/ the nails..
Agreed. Assembled fairly recently from old already rusted scrap steel using modern rivets and hinges. What did the auction describe it as ?
Kmaddock
9th October 2023, 08:16 PM
Hi Joe,
Welcome to the forum.
Pictures of the inside of the helmet and the rivets especially would tell a lot.
Could you please put these up when you have a chance.
Regards,
Ken
Joe1475
10th October 2023, 09:02 PM
Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.
cel7
11th October 2023, 08:01 AM
Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.
To me, the modern hinges are a clear indication that it is a copy that has been artificially aged.
Raf
11th October 2023, 11:42 AM
Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.
I'm surprised that the auction described it as such. Given that if genuine it would be a very rare and expensive thing. For comparison the Yarm helmet . UK.A river find in the 1950s , Doubts were initially raised about its authenticity due to its rather crude construction and its suspicious resemblance to a well documented German example. Now accepted as genuine. The material is wrought iron with a phosphorus content . 1 to 2 mm thick. Note the flat head rivets.
Joe1475
11th October 2023, 02:27 PM
The only thing I've found, touted to be original that resembles the construction and condition from around the same period is this one.
Raf
11th October 2023, 04:34 PM
Here is another version with the same problematic rivets . For comparison something similar from Brooklyn Museum. Egypt 7 - 8 century.
fernando
11th October 2023, 09:05 PM
And here is an example dated from the 12th. century, attributed to a German crusader, fallen in the siege of Lisbon. No hinges in this one.
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C4RL
11th October 2023, 09:54 PM
Is the hinge brass? An image of the hinge from inside would be nice, just out of interest.
toaster5sqn
12th October 2023, 03:58 AM
The supposedly genuine similar example shown by Joel1475 has the cheek pieces pointing towards the neck guard?!! Definitely not suspicious at all, right?
Robert
cel7
12th October 2023, 09:08 AM
The only thing I've found, touted to be original that resembles the construction and condition from around the same period is this one.
According to literature, the model is called a "spangen" helmet and they were already popular in Roman times. The photo shown here comes from the website below.
https://www.thecollector.com/ancient-roman-helmets-types-and-characteristics/
The hinges of the cheek plates still seem too modern to me, but I give them the benefit of doubt. What strikes me is the even thickness of the cheek plates. The parts of a helmet were hammered at the time, but these look so perfect, no hammer marks. They look cut out.
Raf
12th October 2023, 11:14 AM
According to literature, the model is called a "spangen" helmet and they were already popular in Roman times. The photo shown here comes from the website below.
https://www.thecollector.com/ancient-roman-helmets-types-and-characteristics/
The hinges of the cheek plates still seem too modern to me, but I give them the benefit of doubt. What strikes me is the even thickness of the cheek plates. The parts of a helmet were hammered at the time, but these look so perfect, no hammer marks. They look cut out.
Read the small print . 'Via Apollo Galleries' Now search Apollo Galleries reviews and scroll down to Reddit.
Joe1475
12th October 2023, 01:33 PM
The supposedly genuine similar example shown by Joel1475 has the cheek pieces pointing towards the neck guard?!! Definitely not suspicious at all, right?
Robert
I thought the same thing the first time I saw it but then it appears that the neck guard may be a brim.
Raf
13th October 2023, 11:32 AM
I thought the same thing the first time I saw it but then it appears that the neck guard may be a brim.
I think we can assume this was intended as a neck guard.
Radboud
13th October 2023, 11:49 AM
Read the small print . 'Via Apollo Galleries' Now search Apollo Galleries reviews and scroll down to Reddit.
That pretty much guarantees the helmet’s a fake.
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