Still a Mystery ...

[Ian]

I've posted this knife twice previously on the Forum. The first time was in the old UBB Forum (now defunct), and the last time was 17 years ago here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=685). I'm still not much closer to identifying exactly where it came from and what it is.

Unidentified Oriental-style Knife with Dog's Head Hilt in Brass Sheath

.

225255

.

225256



In the last round of suggestions, the most likely use for it seemed to be a tobacco knife. The question as to where it came from was not answered directly, although a Filipino-Chinese origin seemed plausible. There is extensive tobacco growing in N. Luzon, mainly owned and operated by Chinese families and companies.

In the intervening 17+ years since my last thread, has anyone seen a similar knife or can offer a more definitive answer to what it is and where it came from? It bugs the heck out of me not to have seen another example or be able to answer two simple questions.

[JeffS]

I've seen that profile used for large game skinning knives...

[Fernando K]

Hello

For me, it is a capador knife. I don't know if camels or dromedaries get rid of...

Affectionately

[Fernando K]

....castrate.....

[milandro]

the shape seems indeed very common in Europe ( all cardinal points ) too and with general purpose functions, not only castration it could certainly be used to skin animals.

So I think this may mean that there is parallel evolution and that there are only so many variations that can happen to a blade before it repeats itself somewhere else without any apparent connection.

[Edster]

Does the engraving on the sheath offer any insights? The man appears to be doing something.

[milandro]

he has a bag full of misty knives thrown over his shoulder:D

[kronckew]

I enlarged and inverted the scabbard bit. Makes it easier to see the figure. Still have no idea what he is doing...

[kahnjar1]

To me it looks as if he is walking along with a basket over his shoulder. From what I can see it looks very like baskets used for tea/tobacco picking so maybe the original idea that the knife is used for that purpose could be correct. The dress of the man looks Chinese to me.
Stu

[Edster]

Maybe a puer tea cake knife. It is used to break up puer tea cakes or bricks since they may be pressed tightly.

See attached link. I couldn't get a picture of the knife shown. The shape is similar to yours.

https://www.umiteasets.com/products/handmade-puerh-tea-cake-axe-knife

[kai]

Thanks, Ed, that seems like a pretty compelling ID, indeed!

The shown knife is a modern rendition and, thus, less likely to be true to its type. Let's see if we can come up with any antique examples which would carry more weight for final conclusions...

Regards,
Kai

[Ian]

Ed,

Thank you so much!!! I think you have solved my riddle. The Oriental figure (a woman I believe) on the sheath could easily be Chinese, and pu-ehr tea, which is manufactured in bricks, is peculiar to Yunnan and neighboring northern Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. There is a nice online explanation of pu-ehr tea and pu-ehr cakes here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/Originally from Yunnan province in China, pu-erh tea has an ancient history of more than 2,000 years. Similarly to Champagne or other regionally specific foods and beverages, pu-erh is a geographically indicated product. It can only be produced in southern Yunnan using maocha, a sun-dried green tea from specific tea varieties found exclusively in Yunnan, Laos, Burma and some parts of Thailand and Vietnam.).

My knife is clearly decorative in its sheath, and would fit well a tea service. As to its origin, I think we need to look to where pu-ehr tea is popular in southern China and neighboring SE Asia. The hilt is carved horn, with what I have called a dog-head pommel, but could be a cat. The horn type is consistent with water buffalo and it has some slight beetle damage consistent with horn damage on other hilts, etc. The brass sheath has a plain rear side and the engraved front as shown above and in more detail in Wayne's post.

Wayne, thanks for enlarging the picture of the front of the sheath. Thanks also to Stu who raised the idea the figure could be collecting tea. I had not thought of tea when I first saw it.

I'm fairly sure that Ed has nailed this one, and I thank him for finding the closely matching blade profile.

For our archives, here are pictures from the site Ed referenced:


.
225323


And with a pu-ehr tea cake:


.
225324

[Ian]

Given that this knife is probably not a weapon, I'm moving it over to the Miscellaneous Forum.

[kahnjar1]

Ed,

Thank you so much!!! I think you have solved my riddle. The Oriental figure (a woman I believe) on the sheath could easily be Chinese, and pu-ehr tea, which is manufactured in bricks, is peculiar to Yunnan and neighboring northern Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. There is a nice online explanation of pu-ehr tea and pu-ehr cakes here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/Originally from Yunnan province in China, pu-erh tea has an ancient history of more than 2,000 years. Similarly to Champagne or other regionally specific foods and beverages, pu-erh is a geographically indicated product. It can only be produced in southern Yunnan using maocha, a sun-dried green tea from specific tea varieties found exclusively in Yunnan, Laos, Burma and some parts of Thailand and Vietnam.).

My knife is clearly decorative in its sheath, and would fit well a tea service. As to its origin, I think we need to look to where pu-ehr tea is popular in southern China and neighboring SE Asia. The hilt is carved horn, with what I have called a dog-head pommel, but could be a cat. The horn type is consistent with water buffalo and it has some slight beetle damage consistent with horn damage on other hilts, etc. The brass sheath has a plain rear side and the engraved front as shown above and in more detail in Wayne's post.

Wayne, thanks for enlarging the picture of the front of the sheath. Thanks also to Stu who raised the idea the figure could be collecting tea. I had not thought of tea when I first saw it.

I'm fairly sure that Ed has nailed this one, and I thank him for finding the closely matching blade profile.

Hi Ian,
I think more likely a man as a bald head with a Que (pigtail) was common in early China. Just a thought.............
Stu

[fernando]

...Wayne, thanks for enlarging the picture of the front of the sheath...
So illuminating indeed... and i mean it. A tot of Port for Wayne :cool:.

[kronckew]

:D

[MacCathain]

Just spotted a photo of a similar knife on this page (scroll about half-way down the page):

https://www.artoftheancestors.com/blog/traditional-weapons-borneo-albert-van-zonneveld

[kai]

Sorry, this is a completely different blade, I'm afraid: Different size & purpose, ethnic group, etc. Thanks for keeping an open eye though!