Keris for identification

[SidJ]

Hello
Please could you advise me on this keris? 18cm long blade length including ganja. The scabbard reminds me of the Tajong keris type. There is no pamor on this blade. Any age estimate? This is one of the first keris that came my way and I am quite attached to it.
Thanks

[Jean]

Interesting and unusual small keris, my best guess about its origin is Jambi or South Sumatra (Bengkulu), and my age estimate about 100 years old. Is the blade fitting neatly into the scabbard? Other opinions are welcome :)

[SidJ]

Hello Jean
Yes the scabbard is a perfect fit and appears original to the keris.

[kai]

Hello Sid,

These small and simple blades do pop up once in a while. Often they are from modern monosteel while a few sport laminated blades; the gonjo of yours is definitely laminated.

I'd like to see more close-ups: A top view of the scabbard and all sides of the hilt might help.

Regards,
Kai

[SidJ]

Hi Kai
I think the blade is laminated and not mono steel. I will try and take more pics but as I say the scabbard is a perfect fit in all respects.

[David]

The scabbard definitely seems to be from Sumatra as that inserted toe of horn is a common feature. Lovely wood on the stem which i assume displays chatoyancy.
I see no reason to assume the blade is modern monosteel. It seems to have some legitimate age as well.
While it's difficult to place the origins of blades like this, that are obviously made far outside the standards of any court, it seems somewhat safe to place it in the same area as sheath if indeed it appears the sheath was constructed specifically for it. So South Sumatra is at least a good starting point.

[kai]

Hello David,

This scabbard tip is also found on the Malay Peninsula. The crosspiece does seem to have Sumatran vibes though. ;)

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Sid,

I will try and take more pics but as I say the scabbard is a perfect fit in all respects.
I trust you on the fit. However, I'm looking for some design features to possibly narrow down the likely origin.

Regards,
Kai

[Jean]

Two somewhat similar blades for reference.

[Interested Party]

Jean, am I right to think the profile of your blades are Bugis influenced, if not their cross section? The cross section being roughly a diamond (please excuse the unintentional pun) like the original post's keris.

Am I alone in thinking that Sid's original keris in this post looks much more weapon-like than many keris?

[Jean]

Jean, am I right to think the profile of your blades are Bugis influenced, if not their cross section? The cross section being roughly a diamond (please excuse the unintentional pun) like the original post's keris.

Am I alone in thinking that Sid's original keris in this post looks much more weapon-like than many keris?

Yes, my blades are more refined than SidJ's one (work from a village smith?) but they bear some similarities IMO.
Regards

[David]

This scabbard tip is also found on the Malay Peninsula. The crosspiece does seem to have Sumatran vibes though. ;)
I think it is much more common on Sumatran keris (not that it never shows up on a Peninsula sheath.
But i am glad that we both agree this is far more likely a Sumatran keris.
I do think that you will have a hard time pinpointing the exact location of origin with a village made keris like this. Even the sheath crosspiece is not exactly an established recognized form, but village work as well. Could be from any number of places.
I.P., this blade is only 18cm long (about 7 inches). Not very likely it was intended as a serious weapon. More likely served a similar function to either a keris selit or patrem.

[Interested Party]

I think it is much more common on Sumatran keris (not that it never shows up on a Peninsula sheath.
I.P., this blade is only 18cm long (about 7 inches). Not very likely it was intended as a serious weapon. More likely served a similar function to either a keris selit or patrem.

Thanks David. For some reason I did not process the 18cm when I looked at the screen. On a side note, didn't many Sumatran Sewars have a blade length of around 18cm? Were these considered decorative as well?

Second question for the group. I don't have my reference library within reach currently. Wasn't there an theory of a "woman's keris" originating in Sumatra? Usually in a 3 luk configuration with grening if I remember correctly? Could this dagger be in this family of use?

[David]

Second question for the group. I don't have my reference library within reach currently. Wasn't there an theory of a "woman's keris" originating in Sumatra? Usually in a 3 luk configuration with grening if I remember correctly? Could this dagger be in this family of use?
I have never heard of the concept of patrem originating in Sumatra and have always assumed that they first appeared in Jawa. but maybe someone has some additional information on this. Though it is true that Minangkabau culture adheres to a matrilineal system in terms of marriage, ethnicity, inheritance, and customary titles. It is in fact the largest matrilineal society in the world. So i suppose the idea of keris specifically for women would possibly be more readily accepted there. Of course, Minangkabau is just one of many cultures that have existed on the island of Sumatra.

[SidJ]

I do own my fair share of 'villager keris' though I am not sure what this term means and if it is to be contrasted with more sophisticated ' city keris'. But in this case its worth pointing out that the ganja appears to be a different composition than the blade. The scabbard is also very well made of very good timber with a buntet. The hulu too is well carved and of good wood. It seems to me to be fairly decent overall with attention to detail in its manufacture. I am not therefore clear in which area it lacks refinement.

[kai]

Hello Sid,

I'd like to see more close-ups: A top view of the scabbard and all sides of the hilt might help.
Could you provide the pics, please? It's really tough to discuss missing evidence...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

I think it is much more common on Sumatran keris (not that it never shows up on a Peninsula sheath.
I.P., this blade is only 18cm long (about 7 inches). Not very likely it was intended as a serious weapon. More likely served a similar function to either a keris selit or patrem.
Thanks David. For some reason I did not process the 18cm when I looked at the screen. On a side note, didn't many Sumatran Sewars have a blade length of around 18cm? Were these considered decorative as well?
Most of them certainly are decorative. :)
Pretty much all sewar are certainly meant to be weapons, indeed.

A blade length of 18cm is certainly enough to be considered as a serious blade and can do enough damage. A short blade affects reach and, thus, fighting style. Obviously, it's not a primary battlefield weapon. Hardly any keris is.

Regards,
Kai

[Jean]

I I am not therefore clear in which area it lacks refinement.

SidJ, I was referring to the blade only, do you see any refinement in its shape, dapur, pamor, carving, or type of metal?
Regards

[David]

I do own my fair share of 'villager keris' though I am not sure what this term means and if it is to be contrasted with more sophisticated ' city keris'. But in this case its worth pointing out that the ganja appears to be a different composition than the blade. The scabbard is also very well made of very good timber with a buntet. The hulu too is well carved and of good wood. It seems to me to be fairly decent overall with attention to detail in its manufacture. I am not therefore clear in which area it lacks refinement.
I cannot say what others might mean when they say something is "village work", but for me it is a keris that is made outside the purview of the keraton and do not necessarily adhere to the stricter pakem or, if outside Javanese influence, the court standards that are expected for keris created for a higher social level. This does not mean that a village keris cannot be well made, or even sophisticated. Village keris exist an all levels of quality of execution. It also doesn't mean that village keris are not worthy of collection. I dare say that MOST of the keris in our collections are certainly not made by an empu, but that does not mean they are necessarily made without skill. And even keris that are made with lesser levels of skill or refinement can have character and presence that draws us to them. Your keris does not seem very refined to eye, but it does seem to have "character". ;)

[Gavin Nugent]

Perak t gets my vote... seems to carry a hint of Thai Coteng influence within too...

[kai]

We're still data deficient.

Sid, could you please add pics of all sides of the hilt as well as a top view of the crosspiece (without blade)?

Regards,
Kai