Seeking dating information Suhl Hen mark

[Bayowolf]

I'm hoping someone can help me pin down the date on this Suhl hen marking.

[fernando]

Please show us the whole piece, will you, Bayowolf ? We take it as a must !;).

[Bayowolf]

I will definitely post the whole piece later. I would like some opinions about the date of the mark first though. I'm afraid posting the whole piece will change the comments.

[Jim McDougall]

I will definitely post the whole piece later. I would like some opinions about the date of the mark first though. I'm afraid posting the whole piece will change the comments.

Why?

[Jim McDougall]

To the point, while it seems Suhl was primarily a gun making location, from 'what we can see' this image seems of another weapon form. The 'hen' markings seem of some variation and seem to have been used on other items such as ceramics, but the SVL cartouche seems consistent on the barrels forged in Suhl.

From Wallace Collection (Mann, 1962) examples, the guns of wheel lock form etc seem to be in many cases composites, and often components seen with Suhl components have spurious dates, as well as stocks made as late as 19th c in the 16th c. style.

While I cannot make out what kind of weapon this is, my guess would be a bayonet ......clearly the guessing game without context is rather pointless.
If we know what kind of weapon we are assessing a mark from, we can check resources covering that weapon form.
This becomes apparent as I checked a book on edged weapon markings, there was nothing on Suhl.

Interesting markings though, the SVL in an arched cartouche seems different.
The hen symbol for the Thuringian principality of Henneberg.

Now can we take off the blindfolds?

[midelburgo]

Now can we take off the blindfolds?

I am guessing it is a pan handle.

[kronckew]

pancake turner?

[corrado26]

The "SVL"-mark in a recess was in use in the years 1610 until ca. 1620

[Bayowolf]

It is on a bayonet. Very unusual in style and having the remains of a spring catch that looks similar to the much later Khyl spring catch. No guessing game was intended. I was hoping to get some dating information from the dated and marked firearms. The conventional wisdom is that the socket bayonet was invented in France in the 1670s. This example may push that date back a bit earlier.

The other side of the blade is marked with a large stag.

[fernando]

A most interesting piece indeed . I wouldn't mind having one :cool:.

[Jim McDougall]

Ahah! as I suspected..........the old 'pancake turner' bayonet!!!!
Clever indeed...................good game :)

[fernando]

Ahah! as I suspected..........the old 'pancake turner' bayonet!!!!
Clever indeed...................good game :)
Wayne was more accurate indeed ;).

[kronckew]

;):D


the idea was resurrected by the USA in 1869


Was not a success...