The things we cannot see [Archive] - Ethnographic Arms & Armour

A. G. Maisey

24th July 2022, 12:56 AM

Jean, my own early years were spent in a distinctly rural Irish household, in Australia, yes, but the tone of the household was that of my mother's parents. I believe I can identify some similarity between practices & beliefs that existed in that household, with practices & beliefs that I have lived with in Central Jawa.

I really do not find it particularly difficult to shift my world view from the one I was surrounded with in my early years, to the world view I have needed to live with during the last 50 years or so.

My principal teacher in the Keris was Empu Suparman Supowijoyo, AKA Pak Parman or sometimes PP, and to his close friends "Pak Mendung". He lived in Komplang, a suburb of Solo and his house was diagonally opposite a mesjid (mosque). When the call to prayer became too loud he would tolerate it for a while, but then he would complain that it was "disturbing his kebatinan" and he would walk over to the mesjid and ask them to tone it down a bit, which they would do.

Now, an alternate name for "Kejawen" is "Kebatinan". However, there is a difference between Kejawen, which is mainly concerned with the outer expression of a philosophy, and Kebatinan which is centered on the attainment of inner peace & strength. There are various schools of both philosophies, and for many people the two can overlap.

To attempt to come to an understanding of Kejawen, from outside Javanese society & culture, would be, I feel, almost an impossibility unless one were to approach the learning process in a structured way. That structure would necessitate the gaining of an understanding of Javanese indigenous beliefs, Hindu-Buddhist beliefs, Sufic Islam, and perhaps some understanding of Theosophy might also assist.

This is a big ask for somebody who just wants a superficial, packaged idea of the way in which grassroots Javanese people understand the world around them, so we need to take a few shortcuts. Perhaps one of the better shortcuts is a careful reading of Clifford Geertz's "Agama Jawa". This work was produced in the 1950's, and it is dated, the concepts probably do need to be addressed in light of the present day, however, although this might be something of concern to an anthropologist, for the purposes of somebody who wishes to come closer to an understanding of the keris, I feel that the time gap is immaterial.

All the above is my response to Jean's comments on Kejawen, and although there can be some relationship between Kejawen and the belief systems surrounding the keris and mystical beliefs, Kejawen is not central to the discussion that we could develop here.

I have heard stories of both good things & bad things that keris interested people have attributed to one or more keris, but I myself have never experienced anything, either good or bad, that I could rationally sheet home to any keris. I am not prepared to dismiss the possibility that for some people, rationally inexplicable things can occur, and sometimes, again for some people these rationally inexplicable things might be associated with a keris.

Along this line there is the story of a keris that was supposedly responsible for the death of a number of people, another keris I heard about had been responsible for the bankruptcy of several people, still another keris was regarded by its custodian as being responsible for the foundation of his successful small business.

So I think that we must acknowledge that for some people, some keris might have some sort of notable effect.

However, on the other side of the ledger we have the charlatans who buy a keris in Pasar Triwindu early on Monday morning, and by Tuesday evening that keris has become a magical pusaka that materialized from the earth during meditation on Gunung Lawu. It has probably acquired a certificate or two along the way that guarantees it is the residence of a powerful and ethical khodam who will invariably assist the custodian in achieving his earthly desires. A powerful presence, something like Aladdin's genie of the lamp, except that you usually don't get to see the khodam.

Some of these charlatans have now become international, and they are actively besmirching the truth and reality of the keris. To be frank, this is something that offends me, I would very much like to encourage a better understanding of the real esoteric aspects of the keris, so that people might have some chance of identifying the possible from the impossible, or put another way, identifying attributed powers that might be accepted by a learned ahli keris, and powers that might be dismissed with a smile.

Perhaps a little bit of understanding of the way in which the elements of the Hidden World do function might help people with a minimal understanding of these forces to differentiate between the possible & the impossible, the real & the unreal.

Perhaps this understanding might be assisted by the opening up of opinions, beliefs and experiences of keris interested people.

Jean

24th July 2022, 09:11 AM

Thank you Alan and I hope that other members (especially Indonesians & Malaysians) will positively participate in this discussion.

Green

24th July 2022, 11:43 AM

some years back when I was working in an American MNC I got to travel often to Thailand and Indonesia. One time I asked one of my Thai friends and work colleague "As a buddhist, don't you feel offended that Buddha statues are sold in art galleries ,weekend markets or worse and non Buddhists buy then and use these merely as room decoration ?" His answer was that it is OK with him as all these statues were either already de-consecrated or were never consecrated by priests. So they are just plain statues like any other statues.

And so with keris. A big majority of keris were made purely using just technical know how by keris smiths without the added rituals , prayers and special rites that were more commonly done in 'the old days' particularly for keris commissioned by important people. I would guess virtually all keris that are made in this century in Malaysia at least are made without any rituals hence there is nothing imbued in these keris. And so, these keris are as plain as kitchen knives in term of whether they contain secret khodam or possessing any special magics.

Despite all that, you can not sit with keris collectors for five minutes before being regaled with unexplained things that happened to them or people that they know which were caused by this or that particular keris. And many still believe that certain 'ketandaan' (symbols/marks) on keris give particular benefits or other wise . In short, majority of keris lovers and collectors have deep awe and respectful of (old/antique) keris because despite being pious muslims and Islam strictly prohibiting belief of power other than Allah the old superstition still persist and the way most people get aroud this is by saying "all these power (of the keris) is by the leave of Allah"

A. G. Maisey

24th July 2022, 10:42 PM

Yes Green, you have identified a major area of misunderstanding --- actually two major areas of misunderstanding.

Firstly there is the fact that not all keris were created equal.

Then there is the fact that not all creators of keris were equal.

The keris that was created with the intention that it would have some quality that might be able to accessed by its custodian was created by fire and physical force, but with the addition of ritual, and that ritual was not known to every person who could use the forge and its tools.

The man who knew the correct mantras and offerings and days and hours and methods of production that were necessary for the creation of a keris with power was the Empu (Mpu).

This then raises the question of how it might be possible to identify the work of an Mpu.

Hopefully this question will be addressed later.

The word Empu/Mpu should be looked at to understand exactly what this word means. The word exists in Old Javanese, the language that was in general use in Jawa prior to approximately 1600. At that time this word was simply an honorific used to show respect.

However, as the Javanese language developed over time into Modern Javanese, it came to be used as a title for an outstanding craftsman, a literary person, a poet, an artist, or a maker of keris. Since these people were, in Jawa, usually attached to a court, it then became a title that was accompanied by one of the other formal titles bestowed by the court.

In Bahasa Indonesia the word can be understood in several different ways:- master craftsman, armourer, master.

So, if we are looking for a keris that a person who is knowledgeable in keris belief will accept as having the possibility of possessing some sort of power or force or essence that is out of the ordinary, than that keris needs, first & foremost to be able to be identified as the work of a master.

Just because a keris is old, that does not mean that the possibility of an extraordinary nature does exist.

jagabuwana

25th July 2022, 08:25 AM

I'm from a Sundanese, Muslim family whose culture has experience and knowledge around matters of the unseen or esoteric. It is largely informed by:

Pre-Islamic Sundanese folk beliefs like ancestor or nature worship
Esoteric, syncretic Islam or "tasawwuf". I often avoid the words Sufic or Sufism as I find that this often connotes it being a separate sect outside orthodox Sunni Islam - which it is not.

From my observations and studies, an enduring keris culture with links to past traditions and beliefs doesn't seem to exist in Sundanese culture today. If it ever did, I am not confident that it can be found intact today. Nevertheless we can still find beliefs regarding the keris' unseen qualities which we have explored in this forum previously. For example:

The keris can act as a bridge between the seen and the unseen worlds
It can be used to call upon the custodian's ancestors
It can be a vessel for both good and bad entities

Interestingly, how the unseen is described will depend on who is asking. In public life, everyday speech or something published for lay audiences, it leans more Islamic. That is to say that the unseen world that humans often encounter or meddle with is made up of jinn. Jinn are a type of non-human entity that are distinct from humans and angels and we co-habit earth with them. They can be good or bad, but in this context is usually brought up with negative connotations. They are said to make their homes in nature - rocks, trees, mountains etc, but can be "called" into empty vessels like keris to harness whatever power they might have. Inasmuch as this is acknowledged to be possible, it is a deeply shunned practice if it is sought after or practiced deliberately.

However I have found that depending on the nature and depth of the conversation, and who is present in the conversation, discussion about the unseen turns into one that involves ancestors and spirits - both referred to as hyang/eyang. This can mean ancestors in your lineage or kinship group, but it also extends to any personage that has passed into the unseen world several generations ago and are treated with the same respect as the former. As for spirits, these are those that the Muslim stream of thought would call jinn, but are spoken about in a way that is much more neutral and less negative or taboo. The nature of these spirits varies - sometimes they are from nature; sometimes they are animals; ghosts, monsters or demons. Basically any non-human entity that is not adequately explained by Islam. It is within this intimate, private conversation and context that the "true" understanding of the unseen is approached.

jagabuwana

25th July 2022, 08:42 AM

Yes Green, you have identified a major area of misunderstanding --- actually two major areas of misunderstanding.

Firstly there is the fact that not all keris were created equal.

Then there is the fact that not all creators of keris were equal.

The keris that was created with the intention that it would have some quality that might be able to accessed by its custodian was created by fire and physical force, but with the addition of ritual, and that ritual was not known to every person who could use the forge and its tools.

To add to my previous post, I will elaborate my understanding of this based on what I have gathered and come to learn from my culture.

As previously mentioned, there is no intact Sundanese keris or keraton culture today, so there is no Empu role to draw on here.

However there is the belief that a person can be born with spiritual sensitivity to the unseen world. This is usually confirmed by a sensitive elder, who might be able to act as a medium for ancestors who come into them to share wisdom and warnings to those present, as well as for those ancestors to confer their blessings or confirmation of sensitivity to this person. It is not uncommon for these to be further supported by the elder/ancestor referring to some happening in the person's life that perhaps they had not told to others, such as a significant dream or inexplicable event.

This event is what marks the legitimacy of this person's sensitivity to their family or community. It is a very private and spontaneous affair.

This person can then choose to hone their sensitivities under an older, sensitive mentor through meditation, fasting, forced isolation in austere conditions and so on. But it is also believed that a non-sensitive person could obtain these aptitudes through rigorous practice and study under a teacher, albeit it with great difficulty and with great cost to their psyche.

In the context of this culture, I think this person could fit the bill as someone who could create a keris that is able to call on ancestors or to act as a conduit for the unseen. But I do not know precisely "how".

blackforest1959

25th July 2022, 10:08 AM

As a new member i didn't want to get active so quickly, but this is a topic i can't resist. I am coming from the black forest area of Germany where the mystical is still a kind of reality and now living in Indonesia where the mystical experience happens all around, ghost busses, people who fell asleep and awake dozens or hundreds Km away only to name a few. And things that happened to me/my family and only stopped after i bought a protective Keris ( chinese witch and muslim Ustad failed). Or the pusaka Keris of my wifes family, buried because to scared of them, yes one of it flies too. All this is real, in Indonesia. I doubt one could replicate these things lets say in Germany or England. Probably my Keris would there only be some iron and wood in a funny shape with some interesting patterns on it, without doing its magic. I think everyone who has lived here in Indonesia for a longer has similar experiences in one way or another. And there is more than only one reality.

A. G. Maisey

25th July 2022, 02:12 PM

David

25th July 2022, 11:07 PM

Interesting conversations so far.
At this point i would just like to interject that the concept of the seen and unseen worlds is not isolated to a relatively small area in South East Asia. It is a universal concept. The names change, and certain entities can be specific to various locations, but the concepts remain the same. It's just another example of the "Name Game". Perhaps the reason that many Westerners have difficulty grasping these concepts is because of the intense indoctrination of Abrahamic religions, specifically Christianity, in Western cultures. In the United States, where i grew up, Christianity became so dominate that many people have come to believe we were always an intentional Christian nation. Anything outside those beliefs were to be considered foreign and shunned. Though a deeper investigation of these Abrahamic religions can still find a mystical current that lies beneath. It has simply been surpassed for centuries as a means to control the population. I have spent many years investigating and studying various pagan currents such Wicca and traditional Western witchcraft as well as diving deeply into the ceremonial lodge magick that arose in Europe in the 18th-19th centuries. And through my interest in drumming i have studied quite a bit about Haitian Vodoun and the African diaspora practices where i have found some remarkable parallels there to the beliefs to be found in various Indonesian cultures. Again, these concepts are universal. We are one human species living on our one and only planet. The spirits change names, many are may be specific to the exacting environments where people have interacted with them, but ultimately it is all one and the same.
This is all to say that despite what i have heard some people say, i do not believe that one must be raised in Indonesia or spend a great deal of time there to grasp these concepts of the seen and unseen world. This "magick" exists all around the world if we open ourselves up to it and though the specifics may vary the basic operations are pretty much the same. To use a computer analogy, the software changes, but the hard drive remains the same.

A. G. Maisey

26th July 2022, 12:21 AM

David, in respect of the Hidden World, I agree with everything you have written, these concepts are a part of human existence.

Australian Aboriginal culture was the oldest untouched culture in the world, up until the arrival of Europeans a couple of hundred years ago.

Some Aboriginal groups in Northern Australia had previously had intermittent contact with fishermen from the Archipelago, and family ties still exist between Australian Aboriginal people and people from Sulawesi. First contact with these Sulawesi people dates back to the 1700's.

But until that time, Australian Aboriginal people had been isolated from the rest of the world for around 60,000 years.

Still, in spite of this lengthy isolation, similarities in Australian Aboriginal spiritual beliefs can be found that are not that much different to the spiritual beliefs of other populations throughout the world.

However, although I do agree that some understanding of the Hidden World will assist in an understanding of mystic/spiritual/religious values attached to the keris, I would like to see our attention brought back to the beliefs that we find to be associated with the keris itself.

For example, just how much of present day mystic belief that is attached to the keris can be considered to be belief that is re-enforced by other long standing cultural & societal belief, and just how much of this present day belief that is associated with the keris can be identified as something comparatively recent and that echoes other changes within Indonesian, and indeed, world societal change?

Green

26th July 2022, 12:28 AM

David;

Not coming from a Christian tradition my knowledge of Christianity is very little so my opinion below may be erroneos.

But I always believe that Christianity is full of fantastical stories about the other world, satan , exorcism and all that. Just as much as eastern religions.

The way I see it, the westerners are now much less concerned about mysticism and alternate realities/universe , not because they profess Christianity or live in Christian culture but the opposite. They have come away from this culture and turn primarily to secularism which eschew the unproven unknowns.

I guess the western worlds in the dark ages or even in the 19th century were as much as the eastern world in their belief of the unexplained.

Would the swords of the knights of the crusaders for example were believed to be magical as the keris in Indonesia today? My guess is, many believed they were.

jagabuwana

26th July 2022, 06:49 AM

Jaga, I used the word "Sufic" because this is an English word.

The root, "Sufi" was first used in 1653 and was used to refer to a member of a Muslim mystic ascetic sect.

From Sufi we have Sufic, ie pertaining to the Sufis or their mystic system.

In the first half of the 19th century the word "Sufism" was first used as an English language word, and the meaning attached to this word is "Islamic Mysticism".

"Islamic Mysticism" in Arabic is "Tasawwuf".

I am writing in English, I could have used "Islamic Mysticism", or "Sufism", I chose "Sufism", principally because that word is commonly used in publications written in English that deal with Islamic Mysticism.

It would have been incorrect of me to use "Tasawwuf", even if I had a very clear idea of the implications of the use of this word, which I do not have. Moreover, "Tasawwuf" is not found in Old Javanese, Modern Javanese or Bahasa Indonesia. "Sufi" does occur in Bahasa Indonesia where its meaning is "mystical", & especially in reference to Islamic mysticism.

I understand, Alan. Thank you precisely clarifying. Sufi(-ic, -ism) is a perfectly appropriate word to label what we are talking about, especially in English. My preference to use "Tasawwuf" instead, especially when first establishing my point, is related to my experience with the varieties of meanings, assumptions and associations around the word "Sufi" - many of which I believe are erroneous or untrue. But in hindsight I don't think that was necessary for this discussion and it might even cause some confusion. In any case, we're on the same page.

The way I see it, the westerners are now much less concerned about mysticism and alternate realities/universe , not because they profess Christianity or live in Christian culture but the opposite. They have come away from this culture and turn primarily to secularism which eschew the unproven unknowns.

I agree with this, Green. I think the difference is that the West's relationship with religion and spirituality is framed through having a personal religion or spirituality. Contrast this with, say, Japan - who statistically on paper are highly irreligious but commonly do Shinto-Buddhist practices as part of public life, like going to shrines to give thanks or offer prayers. It's a socio-cultural form of religion which demands very little when it comes to personal conviction and belief, which makes it much easier for the society to have a relationship with the divine. It's spirituality as something you do, not as something you have. If the West had this - whether it was through a persistence of its pagan folk beliefs or otherwise - I think we'd see even secular Westerners "doing" religion, because it doesn't entail the same seemingly irreconcilable cognitive dissonance of claiming to be secular while also having a personal belief in the Grace of Christ.

And I think the keris is so attractive to people who crave this kind of spirituality but who wish to remain secular, or for those who want to be able to neatly compartamentalise their public secularity and private spirituality. It is a tool by which you can remember or contemplate the metaphysical, without necessarily needing to adopt Javanese mysticism, Islamic mysticism or anything else. For me, it is one way that I can constantly be reminded of the divine and of my ancestors. For others, it might be the only gateway to the spiritual that they can relate to, even though it is not from their culture.

..we have the charlatans who buy a keris in Pasar Triwindu early on Monday morning, and by Tuesday evening that keris has become a magical pusaka that materialized from the earth during meditation on Gunung Lawu. It has probably acquired a certificate or two along the way that guarantees it is the residence of a powerful and ethical khodam who will invariably assist the custodian in achieving his earthly desires. A powerful presence, something like Aladdin's genie of the lamp, except that you usually don't get to see the khodam.

..Some of these charlatans have now become international, and they are actively besmirching the truth and reality of the keris. To be frank, this is something that offends me, I would very much like to encourage a better understanding of the real esoteric aspects of the keris, so that people might have some chance of identifying the possible from the impossible, or put another way, identifying attributed powers that might be accepted by a learned ahli keris, and powers that might be dismissed with a smile.

Perhaps a little bit of understanding of the way in which the elements of the Hidden World do function might help people with a minimal understanding of these forces to differentiate between the possible & the impossible, the real & the unreal.

Perhaps this understanding might be assisted by the opening up of opinions, beliefs and experiences of keris interested people.

What I've written above I believe partially explains why these charlatans never seem to go out of business. People want real magic, real spirituality in their life. If they don't find it in orthodox, organised religion, they will seek it elsewhere. For how popular Islam is in Indonesia, if public religiosity is anything to go by, I actually believe that it's the result of a deep unseen iceberg of being socially, culturally, spiritually untethered from its syncretic roots. And if it can't be accessed, experienced and practiced as a people without coming under scrutiny or serious accusations of idolatry, then it will be sold by the charlatan or it will be at the behest of being defined by people claiming to know things they don't.

David

26th July 2022, 03:13 PM

Not coming from a Christian tradition my knowledge of Christianity is very little so my opinion below may be erroneos.

But I always believe that Christianity is full of fantastical stories about the other world, satan , exorcism and all that. Just as much as eastern religions.

The way I see it, the westerners are now much less concerned about mysticism and alternate realities/universe , not because they profess Christianity or live in Christian culture but the opposite. They have come away from this culture and turn primarily to secularism which eschew the unproven unknowns.

I guess the western worlds in the dark ages or even in the 19th century were as much as the eastern world in their belief of the unexplained.

Would the swords of the knights of the crusaders for example were believed to be magical as the keris in Indonesia today? My guess is, many believed they were.
One of the big differences to be found between Christianity and Eastern religions is the rigid dichotomy that is found in the former. God (as it is understood) is good and Satan is evil. So all spirits that are good (angels) are of god and all other are of the devil and therefore "evil". If something is not "of God" it is to be shunned. This is not the case with the various gods and goddess of Hinduism, for instance. Concepts of good and evil are not so cut and dry. A good Christian in the Western world can't fully comprehend a goddess like Kali, for instance, who in her many manifestations can be both beneficial and destructive. The average Christian in the Western world does not think much about the unseen world that exists around them at all times. Certainly not on a daily basis. Stories about pacts with the devil and exorcisms are not really the same thing as that kind of daily existence. The concept that spirits exist in everything, from rocks, grass and trees to rivers, oceans and skys and all parts of the animal kingdom is not really a part of their daily understanding. In the exoteric church there is God, in the triad of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and then there is the adversary of the devil that tempts one from the path of goodness. This is a very different way of experiencing the world and deity than in the East. Again, we can find the mysticism of the Gnostics, for instance, but that is a path of Christianity that was considered heretical by the Church and punishable by death in many cases.
Regarding "magic" as it pertains to the swords of the crusaders, i have no doubt that many crusaders may have had their swords blessed by priests and felt that that helped them to victory on the battlefield. I am not aware, however, of crusader swords that were created from the start with magickal intent, that were imbued with power by the smith fasting, chanting and praying over them during the forging process. Forging itself has always been considered magickal in some regard. Their is something alchemical about it, taking the raw materials of iron ore and transforming them into useful and/or deadly tools and objects. But i do not believe the same kind of spiritual/magickal intention was ever applied to Western blades in quite the same way as the keris, certainly not in such a culturally ingrained manner.

David

26th July 2022, 03:34 PM

However, although I do agree that some understanding of the Hidden World will assist in an understanding of mystic/spiritual/religious values attached to the keris, I would like to see our attention brought back to the beliefs that we find to be associated with the keris itself.

For example, just how much of present day mystic belief that is attached to the keris can be considered to be belief that is re-enforced by other long standing cultural & societal belief, and just how much of this present day belief that is associated with the keris can be identified as something comparatively recent and that echoes other changes within Indonesian, and indeed, world societal change?
That is a very good question and i am not really sure how well we can really sort that out, though i am certainly open to the attempt. Certainly it does seem that their is quite a lot of mystical beliefs that has been attached to the keris in more recent times. While the roots of beliefs attached to Kejawèn go back for centuries, as an organized practice it seems to have a fairly recent history. While Alan has already expressed that Kejawèn is not central to our discussion about practices and beliefs associated with the keris, it does seem to me that many of the people in Jawa or other parts of Indonesia who espouse the mystical aspects of the keris have at least some belief or involvement in the Kejawèn movement. So it does seem to me that this philosophy has had at least some influence on more recent beliefs on the mysticism surrounding the keris in modern times. How much these beliefs have evolved or changed since ancient times is a question i do not have the information to answer, though i would be very interested to hear from those that do.

A. G. Maisey

26th July 2022, 09:05 PM

David, in Jawa some of the concepts & ideas that are found within the Kejawen system of belief can also be found within keris systems of belief, but these concepts & ideas came from somewhere else before they entered either system of belief.

Kejawen is not central to keris belief, but both the keris and the belief system that is Kejawen might in some instances be related to one another.

However, this can be so only in Jawa.

How much of Javanese keris belief is found in Bali, and for that matter, how much of Balinese keris belief still exists in Jawa?

We are considering a wide swath of ideas when we set out look at some of the beliefs that can surround the keris, so it might help if we try to narrow things down a little and address some of these elements one at a time.

There are two very basic concepts that need to be clearly understood before we can advance, those two concepts are encapsulated in two words:-

tuah and isi

perhaps we could express our understandings of those two words within the context of keris belief?

jagabuwana

27th July 2022, 02:34 AM

There are two very basic concepts that need to be clearly understood before we can advance, those two concepts are encapsulated in two words:-

tuah and isi

perhaps we could express our understandings of those two words within the context of keris belief?

Thanks for focusing the discussion, Alan. Here is my understanding of these words.

Isi means 'contents' or 'filling'. When a keris has "isi" this means that it is inhabited by a spirit - either good or bad. The old Javanese belief would have it that this spirit is one of or from nature. Newer beliefs attributable to Islam would say that jinns can inhabit keris. I think those that believe the latter would just say that the former are just types of jinn anyway. The keris as a vessel for spirit habitation or visitation is consistent with the idea that the keris is also a shrine.

Tuah - I'm not sure what the direct meaning or etymology of this word is in Javanese or BI. But anyway it refers to the keris' talismanic power or qualities. Only an Mpu can produce a keris with tuah due to their role in keris cultures as not only being masters of their craft but also having esoteric skills and knowledge. The methods by which a keris can be given power or life is known only by an Mpu. The tuah is usually tailored/matched for a particular person. Because it's a personalised affair a keris that has tuah cannot be passed onto someone else while expecting the talismanic effects of that keris to be available, let alone the same for the new custodian.

Given that keris that were made by Empus are vastly outnumbered by those that were not, most keris neither have the ability to have isi, nor do they have tuah.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

A. G. Maisey

27th July 2022, 10:01 AM

Yep, pretty much so Jaga.

As for "wrong" I'm a bit inclined to the idea that where opinions concerning beliefs are concerned nobody can be out & out wrong, but respected masters might well have opinions that vary from the lay opinion, or even the opinion of the bulk of keris literate people.

With this sort of thing we are talking about esoteric understanding, and the very meaning of esoteric is that things of an esoteric nature are only understood by a very limited number of people.

I think I'll be out of this discussion for a few days, I'm off to look for rocks.

Green

27th July 2022, 11:32 AM

The literal meaning of the word Tuah in Malay (and bahasa Indonesia) is Luck.
When you add the prefix ber as in bertuah it means Lucky or fortunate.
Hence a keris that is deemed bertuah would give luck or fortunes to the owner. That is at least the theory. The opposite is a keris that is cursed, i.e bringing bad luck. Many people believe there exist both types of keris. How a keris has tuah or a curse is something I have not heard people explain .

One time a woman friend told me her friend wanted to let go of a keris. She and her friend have no interest or understanding about keris and hence offered it to me. It is a very old spokal type from the state of Perak Malaysia. She did not tell me about the background of the keris but I quite liked it and hence bought it. Much later I met again with her friend and asked him why he wanted to sell it. He told me that it was a pusaka in his family and has been handed down for several generations but nobody wanted it now. And I asked him why? this time he told me. It is because every family that kept this keris always had fights and bad fortunes. Basically it is a cursed keris! The bugger didn't tell me this when he wanted to sell it before!

But it didn't seem to give either bad or good luck to me as far as I can tell. It is still with me.

David

28th July 2022, 04:34 PM

The literal meaning of the word Tuah in Malay (and bahasa Indonesia) is Luck.
When you add the prefix ber as in bertuah it means Lucky or fortunate.
Hence a keris that is deemed bertuah would give luck or fortunes to the owner. That is at least the theory. The opposite is a keris that is cursed, i.e bringing bad luck. Many people believe there exist both types of keris. How a keris has tuah or a curse is something I have not heard people explain .
In this case every Javanese to English online dictionary also seems to translate "tuah" as "luck", though i must say that i never quite trust these source (and strangely STILL have not obtained a good Javanese to English dictionary for myself!). But it should be noted that whenever we look at these words related to keris they are almost always of Javanese origin so we need to go to that source rather than BI or Malay, since even when these words appear in all three languages they sometimes have different definitions and/or implications.

A. G. Maisey

1st August 2022, 09:30 AM

In post #21 this is what I wrote:-

"There are two very basic concepts that need to be clearly understood before we can advance, those two concepts are encapsulated in two words:-

tuah and isi

perhaps we could express our understandings of those two words within the context of keris belief?"

To consider the word "tuah".

In Malay the word "tuah" does mean "luck", just as Green has written, but not just any kind of luck, to use the word "tuah" to refer to luck, that luck must be luck that is pure good fortune, the word cannot be correctly used to refer to luck that has been generated by hard work or foresight.

In Bahasa Indonesia, "tuah" has several understandings attached to it:-

1) good luck, good fortune, 2) magic power, 3) respect, honour, prestige. Prefixes & suffixes used with the word convey similar, related understandings.(Echols & Shadily)

I asked three native speakers of Bahasa Indonesia, ordinary people, not academics nor even particularly highly educated, how they understood the word, two people gave the meaning as "a blessing", in the sense that one has been blessed by some happening or other, like finding a $100 note. The third person understood the meaning as any kind of "good fortune", not necessarily by chance, just good fortune, good luck, generated by anything at all.

In Javanese the word "tuah" does not exist, but in Modern Colloquial Javanese it might be used as a loan word from Malay/Bahasa Indonesia. The word does not exist in Old Javanese. I have been unable to find it, even with variant spellings in any dictionary of Modern Javanese

The word "tuah" does not exist in Balinese

In Sundanese (Rigg) it means a sin, a crime, an offence.

All the above is dictionary, conventional usage.

The word "tuah" in the context of keris, as explained to me by Empu Suparman is that it refers to the inherrent talismanic and/or magical qualities of a keris that are expressed by the pamor and dhapur of the keris, these qualities probably existed in the iron and other material used to make the keris before they were used to make the keris, but it took an Mpu working according to the sanctified way by using selected days of work, offerings (slametan), prayers and mantras to release the energy of the materials into the finished keris.

ONLY an Mpu has this power, no ordinary smith has the power, not even if he might know a prayer or two, or a mantra or two. This is what Mpu Pauzan Pusposukadgo meant when he refused to be called an Mpu, he considered the powers believed to be held by an Mpu to be contrary to the dictates of Islam.

The power of tuah is not necessarily restricted only to the person for whom the keris was made, the power in always there in the pamor and the dhapur, but it might not be available to everybody, the keris needs to be suited to the custodian of the keris, and the custodian needs to be suited to the keris.

For the person for whom it was made, this suitability is not a matter of chance, it is his keris, perhaps it will become pusaka in his family, for that one person, the power is certainly always accessible. For others it might be, it might not be, it depends upon the suitability one unto the other.

The true Mpu had extraordinary powers, part craftsman, part shaman, part magician, in Javanese "dukun". He could bring to life the power that was inherent in the material of the keris, and this life force was evidenced by the dhapur and pamor that he created.

Just because a keris is old, just because it might be a work of art, that does not mean that it has necessarily been made in a way that will provide the essence of its power to any custodian. The keris itself must be the production of a genuine empu, it must have been made by the sanctified method, it must be suited to its custodian, and the custodian must be suited to the keris.

All keris with tuah are good keris, "good" in the sense that when the keris was made it was made to provide a benefit to somebody, the pamor motif, and the dhapur, whether the product of an Mpu or not were never made with evil intent, only with intent to benefit the custodian.

So "evil" keris do not start that way.

Since it is obvious that not all keris can comply with the pre-requisites needed to be a keris that might have the possibility of providing some benefit to somebody, the question must then arise as to how we can identify such a keris. Again I must refer to Empu Suparman. His belief was that the quality and characteristics of a keris were the indicators of a keris made by an Mpu.

These days the art of pattern welding is understood by many people and there are references available that provide information relating to dhapurs.

There are gas forges, and I can tell you from personal experience, that welding & even pattern welding in a gas forge is not in my opinion as difficult as making a good chocolate cake.

But this was not always so.

The secrets of making complex pamors were secrets held closely by the Mpus, and only passed to their own children, either blood children, or adopted.

The correct forms of specific dhapurs were known only to Mpus.

So the ONLY keris that can be expected to hold some sort of genuine tuah are those keris that were made by a genuine Mpu and at a time when the relevant traditions were intact.

That is the starting point, but only the starting point. Even though a keris might have been made by a genuine Mpu, at a time, and in a place where there is a possibility that the keris concerned might have some special qualities, we cannot know if that keris does indeed hold those qualities until we have some indication that it does.

There are a number of ways that this matter of the power possessed by a keris might be able to be known, or at least suspected. I do not want to discuss these various methods, except to say that the person who can identify at will the power, or perhaps more properly, the force, is very, very rare.

These genuine people will not ever be specific about the force, and the idea that comes to them of this force does not seem to be something that they can summon at will, the idea can be elusive, and it will not be of the presence itself, but of something that represents the presence. The indicator might be a fleeting, spontaneous idea, it might be a feeling that penetrates consciousness, it might be a dream, but whatever it is, it will not be of the power itself, it will be a symbol of the power.

Here we need to understand that the way in which we visualise a spiritual entity is not really a representation of the spiritual entity, nor of a deity. A deity has no form, a deity is an unseen force, and the same is true of spiritual entities, the form that we give them only helps us to visualise the nature of the unseen force.

The genuine people who can sometimes detect a force associated with a keris do not hand out certificates with the stamp of some commercial operation or other. If they feel it is proper to pass on what they have felt it will almost always never be direct, it will usually be a suggestion of something that can be understood in more than one way, the way in which it is actually understood will depend on various factors.

The power of any keris is mostly dependent upon the understanding, belief and feeling of the custodian. If the keris is not a natural pairing with a custodian it will usually make the custodian aware of this in one way or another.

The key take-away in all this tuah business is that only a keris made by a proper Mpu in the proper way can have any mystic force at all, and ultimately only the custodian of the keris can understand if any positive force for him is present in that keris.

Stripped of all the lies and pretence, this is a pretty simple idea, and it comes back to the interaction between keris & custodian.

Jins & khodams & all of the transference of Islamic mysticism have no part in this, except in the minds of those who have not yet learnt.

For the last 500 years and more there has been an ongoing effort by Islam to replace the indigenous belief systems and the old Hindu-Jawa belief systems of the Javanese people, this job is not yet complete, and the changes that have been wrought in the old ways of relating to the keris and its earlier understandings is still relentlessly progressing.

And then we have the concept of "isi".

I'm still considering just how I should approach this concept.

Jean

1st August 2022, 06:58 PM

Very interesting Alan, thank you!
May I ask you whether you personally got any evidence of a keris with a mystic force of any kind?
Regards

A. G. Maisey

1st August 2022, 10:44 PM

Jean, what I have written above is a very brief, very superficial outline of the major belief system concerning the way in which the concept of tuah was understood by the people in Solo who taught me.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, this is my own belief in respect of the way in which the observed qualities of a keris should be understood.

For about five years I lived in a very old house that had the reputation of being inhabited by a spirit presence, his identity was known, he had been seen by a number of people, including my three year old son, who regarded him as his friend. My wife at the time would avoid one of the rooms in this house and would close & lock the door to this room if I was not at home. If she entered the room she could feel a presence behind her, if she turned around quickly she would see a movement in the air. She was very uncomfortable in this house and in spite of its beauty and the sweeping views from the back verandah we eventually sold it and moved. During the entire time we were there I did not see, feel, nor experience anything even remotely unusual. I am not a sensitive person.

I have been given more than a few keris and tombak by various people, a few were given as tokens of friendship, but most were given because it was believed that they had brought misfortune to the previous custodians, one was given to me because of messages that a woman whom I did not know had received instructions in a dream from her dead husband, one was given to me for safe keeping until somebody in the family concerned was prepared to accept responsibility for its care.

Apart from the items of tosan aji that have been given to me I have one keris that I acquired through a normal commercial transaction. This keris was the central performer in a very unusual occurrence involving a Hungarian psychic who had never even seen a keris until he handled a few that I had, this occurrence took place in the same house with the spiritual presence. This same keris was declared "hot" & "evil" by a man who had been a spiritual advisor to President Sukarno. This same keris moved from the place where it had been left to a different place 3 meters away on the first night it was in my house, my house at that time was the one that did certainly have a resident spiritual presence.

Apart from these things mentioned above I have experienced a number of other inexplicable things throughout my life, things that might be able to be explained as coincidence in some cases, but that in other cases cannot be explained in any rational way.

For example, the knowledge of an acquaintance who burnt to death in bed 5000km away, at the time when it was happening. This was not something that I experienced, rather it was something that somebody who is very close to me experienced and this person does have acknowledged psychic abilities.

I do absolutely accept that there are unseen forces that are present all around us all the time. Everything in this world and beyond is connected.

But I am not one of the people who can cross from one place to the other.

I have never experienced any good fortune, nor any bad luck, that I can directly attribute to anything other than hard work & effort in one regard, and my own stupidity in the other.

JustYS

2nd August 2022, 02:21 AM

The word "tuah" in the context of keris, as explained to me by Empu Suparman is that it refers to the inherrent talismanic and/or magical qualities of a keris that are expressed by the pamor and dhapur of the keris, these qualities probably existed in the iron and other material used to make the keris before they were used to make the keris, but it took an Mpu working according to the sanctified way by using selected days of work, offerings (slametan), prayers and mantras to release the energy of the materials into the finished keris.

Thank you for your detailed explanation Alan. I imagine this is why Keris is considered as Prayers in Steel? An Empu forge a Keris as a form of prayer (represented by pamor and dhapur) suited according to the wishes/hopes of the custodian?

I'm waiting for your explanation on Isi.

Best Regards,

YS

A. G. Maisey

2nd August 2022, 02:51 AM

Not quite YS.

This "prayers in steel" thing is, I believe, pretty new, but it is understandable.

It is not something I ever heard from the people who taught me, I have the feeling that the idea might have originated in the Jogja community.

There are a couple of things that we might consider when thinking about this "prayers in steel" thing.

Firstly, there is very, very little steel in a keris, so clearly the phrase was initiated by somebody who understood a minimal amount about the technology of making a keris.

Secondly there are some people who believe that when the Mpu prays during actual production of the keris the material records his prayers, and those prayers are embedded in the material of the keris forever. I did not hear this belief from the people who taught me.

Thirdly, if read from left to right when the tip of the blade is pointing up, and the gandhik is to the left of the person holding the keris, what we do have is a prayer.

Before praying to other deities many, if not most Hindu devotees offer a brief prayer to Ganesha, and the Kembang Kacang represents Ganesha, in the event that the Kembang Kacang has a Jenggotan, we will see the RonDha, and the Ron Dha can be read as the shortest mantra "AUM", the Blumbangan is representative of the Yoni, the Sogokan a representation of the Lingga, which in turn symbolises Siwa, where a greneng is present we see the RonDha again, so the prayer closes with the shortest mantra "AUM".

So:- AUM>Ganesha>Yoni>Lingga> AUM

and of course, apart from the symbolism related to Mount Meru (Mount Kailash), and the other ways in which the keris can be understood, we have the keris as symbolic of Siwa himself.

When the symbolism of the keris is understood it is very easy to understand why Islam needed to be very proactive in trying to remove the pre-Islamic symbolism from the keris and to replace that with ideas that were more acceptable to Islam.

Anthony G.

2nd August 2022, 07:06 AM

I have a close friend who collects weapons of all sort including keris but then he decided to 'stop' keris collecting. He has a devoted Thai Buddhist friend who one day paid him a visit and told him that he saw an old Malay man (invisible) squatting in the area. And he put all his collection in a storage space at another location. I was told strange events sometimes happen at the other location but no more at the place where he lives.

A. G. Maisey

2nd August 2022, 08:46 AM

This story is one I've heard more times than I can count, it varies in the details but the overall theme is always the same:-

keris > strange, inexplicable happenings> old man, not always visible to everybody> keris moved > inexplicable things cease.

there is one other factor that is always present in every keris story, and that is that human beings are always involved.

I cannot provide explanations, but I have heard lots of stories and I have experienced at arms length some peculiar things.

I do accept that things can happen that I do not understand.

jagabuwana

3rd August 2022, 08:31 AM

There is a lot to think about in your post #26, Alan. Thank you for this very valuable knowledge.

Times seem to be changing fast, and the knowledge and beliefs about the keris with it. It would seem to me that if things continue going the way they currently are, that the knowledges and beliefs as you learned them might disappear. That to me sounds disastrous in that it could be irretrievable, and maybe even akin to the collapse of a culture, but maybe I'm being too bleak. Do you see these knowledges and beliefs enduring?

A. G. Maisey

3rd August 2022, 09:27 AM

Time changes perspective Jaga.

That simple.

The way in which anything has been thought about in the past is only relative to that time.

Islam did not abolish the keris, it just set out to make the belief systems attached to the keris more acceptable to Islam. Same thing happens with many things when a new philosophy begins to take over a society, the changes in the society in turn change the details, but not the roots of the culture.

When we try to understand the keris we need to determine which window in time we will use to provide the perspective that we use for that understanding.

I prefer a slightly older perspective than most people.

David

3rd August 2022, 08:10 PM

And then we have the concept of "isi".

I'm still considering just how I should approach this concept.
I thought i would at least get the ball rolling on "isi". As i understand it, this word has the meaning of "contents" in Bahasa Indonesian and in Javanese i found the definition as "filling". These are similar, though not identical concepts.
I do not wish to interject my own feelings about "isi" at this point, however, here are a couple of links that approach the subject. I do not present these because i am convinced they are correct. Rather they are intended simply as fuel for the fore so to speak, to get the conversation going.
The first link is a short video by David Gallas about how to connect to the isi of a blade. I do not know if David is a member here, but i have encountered him in online keris chat groups on Facebook. Again, i am not suggesting David's take is right or wrong, but simply presenting it for discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cLmlRKlcNs
This second link is a section of Jan Mrázek's book "The Visible and Invisible in South East Asia" where he discusses the concept of isi as related to the keris. Hopefully these two links will provide a starting point for our discussion of the concept.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/295098460_The_Visible_and_the_Invisible_in_a_South east_Asian_World

A. G. Maisey

3rd August 2022, 10:55 PM

Thank you for those links David.

I am reluctant to comment much on the content of either link, but I think I can perhaps make a couple of comments that should not offend anybody.

Both gentlemen involved with these links touched on one idea that is central to the idea of "isi", that idea is that whatever might be the effect of the isi of a keris, that effect is ultimately a very personal matter.

This "personalisation" of effect is one of the things that is causing me to pause before I go into print.

Both gentlemen have clearly had personal contact with Javanese society and have absorbed some of the beliefs that are attached to the keris within that society, but there is, in my opinion, little depth in what is presented. I do not know (obviously) if this is intentional or not.

Mr. Mrazek has, I think, made it very clear that one is not able to understand the keris in isolation from a very good understanding of the Javanese style of communication, this style is always indirect, a bit like aiming at something that can be seen, but hitting something that cannot be seen.

One implies by words and actions, one does not ever act in a straightforward fashion, for polite people, gratuitous truths are very unsavory, it is best to deliver a message through a back door, rather than by walking up to the front door and ringing the bell.

I rather feel that Mr. Mrazek has been very much influenced by the Jogja (Ngyogyakarta) way of understanding.

But all this stuff is good. There is really not only one belief system that is attached to the keris, there are in fact a multitude of belief systems. Being "beliefs", that makes it almost impossible to look at the matter objectively and declare one belief right and all others wrong.

milandro

5th August 2022, 01:23 PM

I do not know if David is a member here, but i have encountered him in online keris chat groups on Facebook. l]

As far as I can tell Mr. David Gallas is a member here

David Gallas was last seen here 5th March 2021

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/member.php?u=29981

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=4536660

rasdan

5th August 2022, 10:59 PM

G’day Alan and also everybody here.

The unseen world is always an interesting topic in keris study. I just thought I’ll add some of my observations with respect to the mystical aspects of the keris in the Malay and Jawa world on top of the tuah and isi elements discussed here.

I think the most popular viewpoint we commonly encounter towards keris mystics nowadays is the “Islamic” viewpoint where the magical aspects are mainly attributed to the presence of unseen beings such as the Djinn. This is due to the fact that in Islam, it is seen as possible (although sinful) to ask for help from the Djinns.

Some people in the keris trade use this line of thought to sell their keris claiming it has some power that can aid the owner to achieve their worldly desires. However, I must highlight here that although this understanding is quite popular, Islam actually does not acknowledge this viewpoint. It is considered as taking partners to God (shirk) and it is the ultimate sin.

Since this viewpoint is prohibited Islam and more people here in Malaysia and Indonesia are rejecting it, I think there is a movement to change this viewpoint towards "New Age” understandings. Meaning that there are some people that try to push the idea of keris mystics as some kind of “energy” that can be manipulated; again, to achieve their worldly desires. I think they are trying to make it sound scientific (although it’s pseudo-science IMHO) to re-attract interested people that were lost due to the Islamic prohibition described above back to keris mystics. I have no understanding of this “New Age” energy viewpoint so I cannot comment any further.

What we are seeing here in my opinion is people reacting to changes in society according to their current beliefs and knowledge . Keris has been known as an object of mystics for a long time; probably since the Islamisation of the Nusantara. In the old manuscripts (usually from the 1600s onwards) keris is frequently described to have supernatural powers. People tend to justify the unexplained, understandably using their current belief or knowledge. Since the majority of people in the keris world here in the Nusantara are Muslims, the explanation to the unexplained naturally is an Islamic one. Nowadays, people are mostly towards scientific understandings therefore the way of justifying the unexplained must be a scientific one thus, the emergence of this “New Age” point of view - although personally I don't think it is actually science.

If we go back in the pre-Islamic times the understanding is very likely a different one especially if we accept that the keris as a Hindu icon. I cannot imagine an icon of religion being used as an object to achieve worldly desires - something like Aladdin's lamp. The current understanding must be very offensive to the people back then (maybe also Hindus of the current time).

A. G. Maisey

7th August 2022, 04:28 AM

I have never attempted to set forth in writing my own understanding of the concept of "isi" in a keris. I do know thoroughly the folk beliefs of Jawa that relate to this concept, equally I know well what my teachers told me about keris "isi". The folk beliefs and the higher Javanese beliefs do have variation, and to detail all of this is really beyond what can reasonably be presented in a place such as we have here.

Put in very superficial terms, Javanese folk belief seems to accept that any keris can have a good, bad or indifferent spirit in it, but higher belief seems to differentiate between the possibility of any spirit essence occupying a keris made by a common smith, and a keris made by an mpu in accordance with full ritual. Thus a keris made in the absence of ritual is just an object made for common use, but a keris made with correct ritual is an object that can possess power.

Correct ritual depends upon knowledge of the relevant mantras, mantras are often referred to as prayers, but in fact a mantra is not a prayer, the words in a mantra sound like language, but they are not, they are sounds that are felt in the core of being and the person giving life to that mantra is merely the instrument for delivering the sounds, this is somewhat similar to the tradition in Christianity of speaking in tongues:- when a Christian speaks in tongues that person is accepted as having been occupied by the holy Spirit, the use of mantra functions in a similar way.

That power of the keris can be the power of tuah, brought into the keris, by the mpu, during creation, or it might be a power gained by the keris as pusaka to a descent group over generations, or it might be a power brought into the keris by the efforts of a sorcerer, or it might be the invasion of the keris by some wandering spirit force. In any case, the dividing line is who creates the keris:- mpu, or smith. There is another dividing line also, a keris that is pusaka has a power force that cannot be alienated from the descent group.

In very superficial terms, there we have the power of the keris as I understand it:- it is power brought into the keris during its creation and power that has come into the keris after creation. Folk belief seems to believe this can apply to any keris; the belief of higher level keris authorities seems to believe that the starting point of any power in a keris depends upon who created it:- mpu or tukang besi (smith).

In respect of the power of tuah in the Javanese keris, I am more or less satisfied that the comments I have already made give a beginning understanding of how this power is perceived by those people in Jawa who accept this belief system. Effectively belief in tuah is belief in a talisman, and is subject to pretty much the same parameters & principles as apply to other talismans, everywhere. Do you carry a Saint Christopher medal on your car keys? An image of Ganesha on your watch chain? If you do, you probably understand well enough the principle of tuah.

But the principle of "isi" is different. Just how different to belief in tuah, and beliefs in present day Jawa and present day Bali is something that I feel needs to begin with at least some understanding of the differences between these two societies.

Does anybody feel inclined to begin discussion on the ways in which Javanese society & Balinese society differ ? Most especially in the way in which these two societies understand the keris?

Bob A

7th August 2022, 09:55 PM

"Does anybody feel inclined to begin discussion on the ways in which Javanese society & Balinese society differ ? Most especially in the way in which these two societies understand the keris?"

I'm certainly in no position to begin such a discussion, but I'd welcome the opportunity to read much more on the topic, if those with information of substance would be willing to contribute.

Rick

7th August 2022, 10:33 PM

A lot of good information sources here:

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/keris-information

A. G. Maisey

7th August 2022, 11:09 PM

Yep Rick, dead right, but if I were to pick just one of those listed sources, I'd pick Wiener.

However, not many people want to begin at ground level, they just want to pick the roses, not try to grow them.

Rick

7th August 2022, 11:22 PM

I enjoyed Wiener, a bit confusing for a Westerner but enlightening, nonetheless.
I need to read it again to refresh my memory; it's been 10 years since last I read her book.

Thank you for compiling that page, Alan.

A. G. Maisey

8th August 2022, 01:30 AM

Its probably about time i added a few titles to it Rick.

David

8th August 2022, 02:05 PM

Well, the most obvious difference between Balinese and Javanese cultures is that Java has been under the influence of Islam since the fall of the Mojopahit while Bali is mostly Hindu. In many ways the Balinese culture has inherited and maintained the understanding of keris from the Hindu perspective while Java has adapted the keris to fit into the structure of Islamic culture.

rasdan

8th August 2022, 04:34 PM

Does anybody feel inclined to begin discussion on the ways in which Javanese society & Balinese society differ ? Most especially in the way in which these two societies understand the keris?

From what I can see, I think the essence remains the same. In Kejawen, the Javanese sees the keris as an object to remind them of God (since they are Muslim it is Allah). From Alan's explanation above, we can see that they also believe a keris made by the Empu is positive (known as tuah, - I don't know the source of power for this in Javanese belief; is it God or some other source), but it can also serve other purposes where the owner can embed other types energy (probably known as isi - I am assuming that generally the Javanese believe that the source of power for this aspect is Djinn as I have stated in my previous post).

Current Balinese understanding also acknowledges this. A pande can make a keris that is positive; something with Taksu obviously from the Hindu God, but if a person wants to use it for other purposes, it is up to the owner to imbue the keris with other forces. (There is a video in Youtube of Pande Ketut Mudra explaining this)

I am not sure the difference or similarity between Taksu in Balinese keris and Tuah in Javanese keris.

However, I think there is a possibility that some of the original Balinese keris understanding have been lost and in the current revival many elements in Bali keris understandings are actually modified from post-Islamic Javanese understandings. I am unsure of this, just my feeling.

A. G. Maisey

9th August 2022, 01:32 AM

Thank you David & Rasdan for your comments.

Rasdan, I'm not sure that the "essence" of the keris remains the same in both societies, but I do think that the "roots" remain the same.

I tend to the point of view that the essence of the keris has changed in accord with the changes to both societies that have occurred since the migrations of Hindu-Buddhist people (Wong Maospait) from Jawa to Bali, and the subsequent domination of Jawa by Islamic philosophies.

youtube is perhaps not a particularly reliable source of information in respect matters that are understood by a very limited number of people, ie, esoteric matters.

The concept of "taksu" is not at all easy to understand, in very simple terms it might be understood as "spiritual strength" but in reality the understanding and the use of the word & concept go much deeper than this, it is not directly connected to Iswara, nor Siwa, nor in general to a specific deity but rather to a higher authority, a higher force. I am probably not sufficiently knowledgeable in respect of how the concept of "taksu" should be understood in specific circumstances to provide a legitimate explanation.

A custodian of a keris can use that keris in ways that the maker did not intend it to be used, and that use might, or might not, have some effect upon the keris itself, but it is very questionable that any custodian of a keris can himself bring any force into a keris that the maker did not intend that it should have.

However, one thing does seem to be certain, and that is that present day understandings in both Bali & Jawa do vary --- sometimes very widely --- with older understandings, and this can apply to things other than keris alone.

A. G. Maisey

9th August 2022, 11:34 PM

In post #46 I wrote that I was unable to provide a clear explanation of "taksu", last night I took steps to remedy this deficiency and made a very long phone call to a lady I know in Bali who is an acknowledged authority in Balinese tradition & culture.

It seems I was not alone in having a deficient understanding of the concept of taksu. According to what I was told, it is a pretty popular subject for discussion and everybody seems to have their own ideas on exactly what taksu is. There are however, a number of things that all can agree upon.

If a performance of music, or dance, or acting, or of other form of art is complimented by saying that it has "taksu", that is the highest compliment that can be given. With taksu the art lives, without taksu the art (whatever it may be) is empty and tasteless.

The perception of taksu by an observer, and the creation of taksu by an artist is limited by three boundaries:- inner power, spiritual power, magic power. An artist who has taksu is able to exercise intelligence in creating his art work, no matter what that might be, and the result of his efforts will be more authoritative and will have a greater presence the higher the degree of taksu that he has.

The principal association of taksu is with the arts, but in everyday usage it is applied to all professions, all endeavour to create, this can be as wide ranging as performance art, politics, cooking, accountancy (everybody here familiar with "creative accounting"?). In religious ceremony taksu is frequently present.

Everybody is born with a seed of taksu but only those who work at its development succeed in gaining the perfect condition of having recognisable taksu.

It is important to understand that to the Balinese people art is not created by the artist, but rather it is created through the artist, so the degree of excellence of an artist's work is evidence of that artist's closeness to divine origins. Each creation is from and for a higher power.

The word "taksu" comes from the Kawi* word "caksu" which means what you can see, what your perspective is, what you witness. So taksu is dependent upon actually witnessing something, but the result that you witness has been produced by the unseen element of taksu, it is the essence that raises a creation far above the ordinary.

The taksu that a great creator has can be absorbed by things that he once used, his clothing, his mask, his tools.

There is another meaning given to the word "taksu", it is the name of a personal shrine in a family compound that is devoted to a person's profession, the person who is responsible for that shrine will make daily offerings to the shrine for the duration of any creative endeavour in which he might be engaged.

The above explanation has come from one person, but bearing in mind the stature of that person I personally am inclined to accept her comments as being pretty accurate.

So, if we are to say that a keris has "taksu", then that keris must be able to assessed as having a physical presence that moves our own emotions to place it on a level of perfection that is far above the ordinary.

This is an overview of a lengthy conversation with a lot of twists & turns, and as was pointed out to me during this conversation, it is a reflection of how many people would understand taksu today, under the influence today's religious observances.

This is an abstract from an academic paper by June Mc Daniel, it can be read on Researchgate:-

"This article describes the role of Hinduism in modern Indonesia and the ways in which it has been adapted to fit the government's definition of religion as a prophetic monotheism with revealed texts and a universal ethic. It gives a brief background on Indonesian history and analyzes the structure and theology of Agama Hindu Dharma Indonesia. It discusses whether a governmental reorganization of an ancient religion can be considered a new religious movement, and some approaches that might be useful from the field of religious studies. It suggests that the definition of new religious movement be changed to fit the case in which a modern religion considered to be a revealed religion also acts as a civil religion."

If we understand how things have changed in recent years we can begin to understand the reasons why the understanding of the concept of "taksu" is somewhat fragmented.

I think this demonstrates something that I have often stated:- understandings are only relevant within a defined socio-cultural context that is limited by time & space.

* Kawi draws strongly on Sanskrit and forms a large part of Old Javanese, these days it is the foundation of literary language

rasdan

10th August 2022, 05:27 PM

G’day Alan,

I agree with you that taksu can mean “full artistic value”, something that have achieved highest degree of artistry, something that have sort of “wibawa” – authority feel and look, handsome and attractive. It means the item has fully served its function. Be it physical item or artistic performance.

However, when listening Balinese speak of the force in the keris, they also refer it to “taksu keris” meaning the power of the keris. Sometimes they use the word tuah. They say that the taksu of the keris can come and can also leave. Similarly, I have read somewhere on the net that the taksu of performance art can also come and leave. Locations of a performance can have varying level of taksu. Some locations it is easy to get taksu, some are difficult. Usually, the presence of taksu is denoted with trance of the performer thus it can come, and it can leave. This is just from my vague memory.

So, in my mind, if it is regarded of energy (that originates from the unseen world) and it can come and go, it is quite possible that taksu of a Balinese keris is something that is parallel to tuah in Javanese keris. What is interesting is that, in Balinese understanding, something with taksu must meet physical requirement (artistic value in the case of a keris) and I think it must also meet spiritual requirement in order for a keris to be regarded fully functional in Balinese sense. (this is my guess) Thus a keris that has achieved spiritual taksu must also achieve a high physical artistic standards.

However, I think in Javanese tuah, a keris is not necessarily achieve a high artistic standard to have tuah, but we know one of the characteristics of an empu made keris is that it must have high artistic standards. So it is like an unmentioned rule that actually tuah is only present in high quality keris - similar concept with Balinese understanding.

Therefore, I think it is probable that the concept of tuah in Javanese keris has been watered down so that the elements of Hinduism in it is not so obvious. At the core, it is a Hindu concept. But this is just my guess. Do you think that it is possible to look at it that way?

A. G. Maisey

10th August 2022, 10:44 PM

Rasdan, what I have written is an over-view, it is taken from a lot of notes made during a phone conversation, & compressed into something short enough and direct enough to be read quickly without the reader going to sleep.

So now, I'll expand a little.

The original use of the word "taksu" only applied to performance art, a performance had taksu when the performer became one with the part he played in the piece, when be actually became the character he was playing, when his mask was not a mask any more, but was the actual face of the character.

Then people started to use the concept of taksu to refer to other art works, and when an art object had become perfect it was considered to have taksu, what my friend actually said was this:-

"--- kalau obyek seni, atau barang seni sudah matang, yah, itulah sudah metaksu ---"

I guess we could say that something like the Mona Lisa or Girl with a Pearl Earring is "metaksu":- we look at the painting and what we witness with our eyes has an effect upon our emotions, however, since not only the creation of the condition of 'taksu' is dependent upon the three pillars of taksu, but also the perception of 'taksu' by the observer, an observer who is deficient in all elements of taksu will not be able to feel the taksu generated by the painting.

So --- "full artistic value"?
Maybe, this is not the way I would describe my present understanding.

Now, as I wrote, everybody has their own ideas on how the concept of "taksu" should be understood, you could have a dozen people who all recognise the taksu in a performance and they could well have a dozen different ideas about how & why the performance is taksu. When the word drifts into colloquial usage and is applied broadly to art works other than performance, the interpretations & understandings can vary even more widely, when it gets into gutter colloquialism and we have some half-ripe kid saying to his mother

"hey mum that soto was really metaksu"

well then we really do have a situation where language is undergoing change.

And this is one of the reasons why the word is so difficult to understand:- it means different things to different people, but its true, original meaning is only in performance art and it only means when that divine spirit enters the performer and he becomes one with his character.

If modern usage of the word corrupts the original way in which it was understood, we just need to recognise that this is one of the characteristics of a living language.

In Shakespeare's England you could get time in the stocks for uttering the word "occupy" in public, it was deemed to be obscene language, during the 17th & 18th centuries people in England avoided using this word.

So, if we want to apply "taksu" to a keris, then it would seem that we need to be able to feel the divine spirit in that keris when we look at it --- just look, not feel, do not forget that for the observer "taksu" is the result of witnessing something, and the effect that the observance has on feelings.

We very definitely cannot confuse taksu with tuah.

I cannot be too definite about that.

Tuah is NOT a Balinese concept, whereas taksu is 100% Balinese.

Tuah of a keris is talismanic in nature and is placed into the keris by a qualified maker.

Taksu is evidence of the presence of the divine spirit.

If some present day Balinese confuse taksu with tuah, this simply demonstrates the penetration of Javanese culture & language into modern Bali. Much of the current Balinese keris understanding has been drawn from Jawa, during the 1970's & 1980's it was almost impossible to find anybody with an in depth understanding of keris in Bali. During the last 20 years or so it seems that we have multitudes of keris literate people in Bali.

Who did they learn from?

Who were their teachers?

Rasdan, we cannot begin to understand a single blossom of a culture or society by only looking at that single blossom, we need to look at the garden it came from. If we want to understand the Balinese keris, we need to look at Balinese society & culture.

Balinese life is intertwined, many would say "defined by", religious observance.

I would strongly encourage everybody who has any interest at all in understanding the Balinese keris to begin by trying to gain an understanding of Balinese culture & society, including the changes that have been wrought by the necessity of forcing Balinese religion into a mould that is acceptable to Islam.

Question:- Has the concept of tuah been watered down in order to reduce elements of Hindu belief?

No, I don't think I'd put it that way. It is beyond doubt that the nature of the keris in Jawa, as it is understood at the present time, has been influenced by Islamic belief. But I don't think "watered down" is the way to think about this, rather understandings seem to have been pushed in a different direction. In Jawa we have this multitude of different pamors and dhapurs, most are able to be interpreted in some way or another, usually talismanic in nature.

Does the same situation exist in Bali? Not really.

In Jawa the keris has been principally a dress accoutrement since about the middle of the 18th century, during this time the talismanic component of its nature seems to have grown, whilst its function as weapon has seems to have decreased.

In Bali the primary function of the keris up until the puputans (only a bit more than 100 years ago) --- and maybe a for a while after that time --- has been as a weapon.

In Bali & in Jawa there is a somewhat different understanding of good & evil and the unseen forces that are representative of these concepts. This single variation in foundation understandings is sufficient to alter the way in which the world is understood, and the keris is an object that does physically exist in this world.

rasdan

12th August 2022, 07:36 PM

Thank you, Alan. I can see the differences now. So, in short we can say that tuah is a Javanese concept and taksu is purely Balinese. Do you think that the tuah concept in keris Bali used in the current time is most likely an influence from Java?

There is a professor here in Malaysia that says that the word tuah did not exist in the Malay language in the 17th century (if my memory serves me correctly). I wonder what is the word used for keris tuah prior of that. This is probably one of the hints that the concept of tuah in keris is probably something newer than the 17th century.

A. G. Maisey

13th August 2022, 12:17 AM

Thank you for your further comments Rasdan.

Bahasa Indonesia and Modern Malay are to a large degree mutually intelligible, but Modern Malay was preceded by Classical Malay, which was in common usage from about 1400 to about 1800, Classical Malay was proceeded by Old Malay.

So, your Professor is in fact saying that the word "tuah" did not exist in Old Malay, 1600 falls into the middle years of usage of Classical Malay, so what was happening in Malay society during those years from around 1400 to around 1600?

Your professor might be right, because in Wilkinson's original Malay Dictionary(Modern Malay) he uses the spelling "tuwah", the alternate, more modern spelling is used in the abridged version of Wilkinson:- "tuah".

In Modern Javanese the word "tuwah" does not exist, but it can be a regional variation of the word "tuwuh" which means "to grow, to rise to the surface, to increase in rank, to become greater".

In Old Javanese, the form of Javanese that was in general usage up to about 1600, the word "tuwuh" means "to grow, to arise from below".

Now look at Bahasa Indonesia, in this language we do not find "tuwah", nor do we find "tuwuh", but we do find "tuah", which is understood as:-

"1 good luck, good fortune. 2 magic power. 3 respect, honour, prestige."

I am not a linguist, in fact, my ability with languages other than English is pretty limited --- in school I had sufficient French to allow me to roughly understand cycling magazines, but not enough to pass examinations. Nobody could ever mistake my stumbling abilities in a few languages other than English to be representative of competence in these languages --- even in English I consider myself only barely competent. But I do have strong analytical abilities, and applying analysis to the various words & meanings attached to "tuwah/tuwuh" I feel it is not very difficult to understand the relationship between these two words and the word that is spelt as "tuah".

So, although the spelling of "tuah" now has this modern form, perhaps the concept of the modern idea of "tuah" is a concept that did exist in earlier times, but was represented by a word with a very slightly variant pronunciation. In earlier times, the spelling would of course not be a romanised spelling so perhaps these various romanised spellings do in fact come back to a single spelling in earlier scripts.

Just for interest sake, here is the entry in Wilkinson for "tuwah":-

" Luck, good fortune - in that things left to chance turn out well. Bertuwah:- lucky, luck bringing - as an amulet is supposed to bring luck, or as certain coins are believed to be lucky coins., HT.Abd., 58, 78, 486: "sudah dapat gading bertuwah, tandok tiyada berguna lagi: now that he has luck bringing ivory, common horn is of no use to him; now that he is wealthy, simple joys of his poverty please him no more; Prov. V. J.S.A.S.. XI 56, Untong ada tuwah tidak: he get profit but makes no lucky strokes; Prov."

I do think we can say that "taksu" is a purely Balinese idea, but as far as "tuah" goes, I am uncertain, I think the idea might be there, but not necessarily attached to the keris, Modern Balinese came in part from Old Javanese, if an idea existed in Old Javanese it probably still exists in Modern Balinese, but perhaps that idea is represented by a different word.

We still need to look at the idea of "isi" , the understanding of "tuah" is, I believe, essential to the understanding of "isi", but to understand "isi" we need first to understand how some elements of the Unseen World are understood in Bali, as opposed to Jawa.

Does anybody have any opinions on this variance in understandings?

SidJ

26th August 2022, 07:10 PM

Mickey the Finn

14th November 2022, 04:04 AM

Mods, please delete this post.

David Gallas

23rd November 2022, 03:58 PM

This is a very interesting discussion, and i like to contribute a reaction looking at it from the other side.
I live in Europe. I am proud to be Javanese. My mother is born in Bandung and my father is born in Yogjakarta, but actually my family comes from east Java. In Holland there live around 2.000.000 people who have their roots in Indonesia. We didn't have the Pancasila implementation in Holland, my family in Indonesia did! My family in Indonesia were sometimes afraid to be picked up, and they hided their keris...

I have been studying the western mind very closely. I think i understand the western brain a bit. The western way of looking at science, i would call, is: stay independent in thought,
be critical in what you hear and
think logical.
Metaphysical things, the things that can not be physical seen / measured, are having no place in the earthly way of thinking.

There is a very nice article that i want to share about this theme, from the university of Kansas:

Limitations of the Western Scientific Worldview for the Study of metaphysically Inclusive Peoples

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=94195

Let me copy a part just to make you curiouse:
"Â“Wrong thinking in the natural sciences is lamentable but, sooner or later, will be rejected. Wrong thinking in the social sciences may escape this fate; thus it is not merely lamentable but dangerousÂ” ( Feldhammer, 1967: p. 29).

The word Â“scienceÂ” carries great authority in Western society ( Ryan, 2011; Turnbull, 2000), and Â“only through the use (and praise) of the Â‘scientific methodÂ’ [can] any study put forth a claim to intellectual legitimacyÂ” ( Feldhammer, 1967, pp. 29-30). The Western scientific worldview has become Â“a locus of cultural powerÂ” ( Marks, 2009: pp. x-xi), and its influence is so pervasive that Â“even the most liberal universities operate in ways that place substantial domains of human experience, thought, and insight outside the conventional bounds of legitimate knowledgeÂ” ( Howitt & Suchet-Pearson, 2003: p. 557). As a result, it now largely controls what is learned, what is funded, what is studied, how it is studied, and what is published ( Barth, 2002; Berkes, 2012; Marks, 2009). Seeking greater legitimacy, the social sciences adopted the Western scientific worldview and are attempting, with varying success, to align themselves with Western science through radical, uncompromising scientism ( Feldhammer, 1967).

However, the study and understanding of peoples whose worldviews include metaphysical phenomena and explanations is undermined by many social scientistsÂ’ strict adherence to the Western scientific worldview which acknowledges only physical phenomena and explanations. In anthropology and archaeology, for example, it has negatively impacted the study of those Native American and other Indigenous peoples whose knowledge traditions and worldviews make few or no distinctions between or at least inextricably link the physical world and the metaphysical world. Most importantly, it devalues and disrespects the knowledge and alternative worldviews of the very peoples that social scientists are attempting to more fully understand."

I am raised with Kejawen, we have some issues with the Dutch government, be we were free to believe what we wanted to believe. We still have spiritual meetings like the Selamatan, and there are still 1000nds and 1000nds keris here. Not only stolen but also family keris, received as heirloom from our parents, and yes for us it represent the holy mountain Meru, Kailash, no Djin or Khodam or other type of human looking spirit....

The top of the mountain is were the spirits live, the gods, your ancestors. So it can help you on a spiritual way.
Don't forget that there is also something as a placebo effect, "if i think it is, it is". So if it is really there or just my imagination, that doesn't matter for my brain, for me it is there!

A. G. Maisey

23rd November 2022, 08:51 PM

David, broadly, I do agree with that which you have placed before us, however, I will put this to you:-

by heritage, you are Javanese, but by location you are European

ergo, to function within European society you must have a template in your mind that understands what you see & experience in a European way
however, to function within Javanese society you must have a template in your mind that understands what you see & experience in a Javanese way.

those of us who do need to function well in more than one society & culture do develop the facility to have more than one world view.

I know a Javanese engineer who was born in a little village outside of Karangpandan, which is on the slopes of Mount Lawu, near Solo in Jawa Tengah. He once said to me something like this:-

"--- when I am working in Jakarta or Sydney, I need to think in the same way that the people I work with think, but when I go home to my village, I need to think exactly as my grandfather thinks --- "

I reckon this just about sums it up, one cannot understand the way in which other people see the world around them, unless one can adopt a mental paradigm that permits the acceptance of ideas that could be out of place in any other model.

I know from my own experience, that when I go to Solo, it takes me about two weeks to fully change the way in which I understand things, but when I come home to Australia, it only takes me maybe three or four days to think like an Aussie again.

Now, I am not an academic, I just function like this because I have developed this approach naturally over many years, but in defence of the scientific method, I will say this:- my broad understanding of the scientific method is this:-

question/observe > research > construct hypothesis > test hypothesis > analyse results > develop conclusion.

by adopting this "scientific" approach, I think it perhaps permits the academic understanding of how another society/culture functions, even though it does not permit the academic individual to understand in the same way that an individual from that other society/culture functions.

David Gallas

24th November 2022, 11:35 AM

I haven't looked at it that way yet, but that's right, you switch very quickly between the Javanese and the European view. We are in between 2 cultures. I once heard my girlfriend say to her friend, that she immediately knew from my tone and way of talking whether I was on the phone with an Indo or not...

I notice that on this forum I speak directly from my European self, without any medical indication of schizophrenia, haha.

The beauty of the present day is that you can easily get in touch with wong jawa all over the world.
There are 3 large groups in this, of course in Indonesia, Suriname and the Netherlands.
In the Netherlands, many Javanese are of East Java Madurese descent. Some Indonesian brothers think our traditions are "old", which is very strange for us to hear, we don't know any better.
We try to keep the traditions of our grandfathers and grandmothers alive.
We have objects from before 1942, still wash our keris with realgar, lemon and sulphur, have many old books that we use, wear rings that have an energy and I had made a post six months ago on a forum for people of Indonesian descent about the keris and the belief in the energy of the keris, is now after 70 years, away from our beautiful motherland, still very much alive. In fact, the 3rd generation picks up this tradition with great dedication.

We never had the introduction of the Panca Sila, the introduction of the one god system, and the period until 1998.
And then the caution begins! The political situation, and I'd rather not go into it any further, but let me put it this way that talking about the keris and the energy isn't totally is risk-free.
For example, my family in East Java was imprisoned and most of them died in an unnatural way...

The tradition that many Javanese in the Netherlands follow can best be described as the tradition as introduced by the Wali Songo.
You have to imagine that you leave your motherland and you take old family pieces with you.
Of course you want your children to know the importance of those objects and that you know how to take care of them, apart from the fact that it is also just fun, the slamatans with the whole family.
Like tomorrow, then it is jumat kliwon. So tonight at 6 pm I'm making an offering for the kerisses.

David

24th November 2022, 06:39 PM

What i am about to write is not in any way meant to counter the experiences of members described here who find themselves operating in completely different paradigms dependent upon whether they are in Indonesia or some Western nation. But i do have to point out that even in the West there are communities of people who operate outside the "normal" and "logical" Western modality of thought.
I have been involved in neo-pagan community in North America for more than 35 years. Such communities, though not operating on the same frequencies as the societies in Jawa, Bali, etc., very much embrace the similar concepts of the seen and unseen worlds and a mystical/magickal reality. Likewise you can find similar belief systems operating within the more generally accepted Western mindset throughout the Western world. So i have spent many years switching my manner of operations back and forth dependent upon which group of peers i am interacting with. ;)

BBking

26th November 2022, 12:27 PM

My daughter who is 12 when holding old keris can in some cases feel ceetain sensations like a feeling of warmth, Prickling of fingers, etc and once even told ne she could feel the keris waking up. I feel none of these sensations. As an example I just acquired 2 keris. One newer and one quite old. My daughter when holding the new one said it made her arm feel twitchy and she quickly returned it to me. The old one she said had no feelings arise. Funnily she does not want me to sell any of my keris but cares nought for any of my other old knives. She has no other interest in keris.

I saw ''by chance'' this topic ,
I collect/ am fascinated as many people here by old edged weapons.

I have two keris,
one send me no special energy but the other one, really lovely ,give me an uncomfortable mud-swamp sensation
and now I'm reading this post, I realise
I store it without really thinking about, away from home in my work-locker...

I want to say that, as mentioned , these kind of energy feeling , parallel souls or mysticism is universal, ( I live in Europe )

and that I have other weapons that give me special energy when I handle them:
an ottoman yatagan, a german old sword ,
a sikin panjang, and a japanese tachi giving special ''power sensations '' and feel the battle-destroying energy ...

Somebody can say it's all our mind,
possible, like a child playing with a wood stock and imagine he is D'Artagnan.

Another explanation is, like shinto-japanese think that the blade itself has his power.

For battle weapons,
possibly energy of people killed by the blade or part of the previous owner's soul still interact with the sword/dagger
that's what my wife always tell me and wonder why I collect old weapons !

it can happen with other old items, no just edged weapons...
My neighbour always wash old items collected under water for ''purify'' them especially jars ( as Aladdin...).

I put away a good japanese jingasa with real hair around I had
that gave uneasy feelings, nightmares
and even the cat frightened and avoided the room , now it's ok ( not just because it's a warmer place.... )
For feelings: nothing better than an animal and his connected mind...