Philippine cannons

[pbleed]

I hope this fine forum will allow me to present – and ask for help with – a couple of not quite “ethnographic” arms. Please help me with assessment of a pair of cannons that were brought to the US in 1899. They were hardly “primitive” when they were produced by Filipino freedom forces, but I wonder if this community can provide insights into their history and background.
Peter

[BBJW]

Dimensions and if there are any markings would be helpful. -- bbjw

[M ELEY]

The first one looks either Euro or American swivel gun c.19th that has been 'refashioned', a quite common thing for these types. The second appears to be an early Dutch 18th c. model, again modified and the breech cut down? The Dutch pattern was copied by the Malay sailors/pirates in Brunai and Macau as a similar form to the second called a lantaka, but I think yours is the Dutch model-

[Rick]

I had a feeling of deja vu about this thread. :)

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26811&highlight=philippine+cannon

[fernando]

'Caught you :D.

[pbleed]

My deep apologies! In trying to dust this project off and get it back and moving toward resolution, I essentially forgot that I did, indeed, seek the advice of this community. Frankly, I think I rather lost contact with the discussion. Together we may all have also discovered that very little is known concretely about the “arms industry” in the pre-modern world. Collectors are good at assembling old weapons, preserving them, assigning them to named categories, but WE have few sources of information on how and why they came to be as they are.
My cannons offer hard evidence that before 1898 SOMEBODY in the Philippine world was able and interested in MAKING artillery that was “modern.” That was a time when a great many folks were familiar with re-purposed firearms (Trapdoor Springfields and Sniders, rolling block Remingtons etc etc). And I THINK somebody in the central Philippines decided to turn that approach to cannons. I can’t find information on that work, but I admire and respect it. Who were those guys?
The other reality is, that between about 1903 and 1915, across the world, the state of artillery design moved in directions that made earlier capabilities of 1898 truly “primitive.”
Again, I apologize for the repetition of my inquiry and I sincerely respect that quality of this community.

[pbleed]

Are there any accessible sources on 'Dutch swivel guns?'. I agree that the tube of the 1" gun looks rather planner than other "lantakas" but I don't know what to do with that insight!
Peter

[pbleed]

And if anybody wanted to read it, I have DRAFTS of technical descriptions of these gun which I would willingly share. I would recommend them to anyone having trouble falling asleep!
Peter

[Rick]

We're all for bringing up subjects for more examination. More people have joined since that post so there may be more info to be gathered now. :)