Flint lock by unknown maker S et S

[SchildaBrit]

Not S & S but S et S. Ought to be French, one might think. But I cannot find a single S et S in Stöckel. S and S is plentiful - in fact, too many to make a plausible identification. Anyway, it was surely not common for British/American gunsmiths to "Frenchify" their company names, although it did sometimes occur with German makers - e.g. the model train makers Märklin Bros. appearing as "Gebrüder Märklin & Cie." (Cie. as abbreviation for Compagnie). And as soon as I try German options, I end up with Sauer & Sohn in Suhl - surely a bit too early for them?

(S&S lock outside-REDUCED)

The lock does not have a bridle for the frizzen/hammer. Which suggests early 18. C. So the French-style ring cock is probably a replacement. The overall length is 14.5 cm, which looks like a small rifle/large pistol size. And it has a fly - just visible in the photo of the inside.

(S&S lock inside REDUCED)

My guess is that it's for a hunting or target rifle.

But who was S et S ???

P.S. Software says my photos are too large to upload. Will reduce resolution and retry

PPS OK photos reduced and uploaded.

[corrado26]

This lock- the cock is as already stated a wrong replacement and should be a swanneck cock - is probably or eventually made by the Suhl gunmakers S et S, what I think could stand for Spangenberg & Spangenberg (Johann Gottfried 1722-1795 & Johann Wilhelm 1727-1783). The shape of the lockplate is typical for the first Prussian ordnance rifles introduced in 1744 made at Potsdam and as shows the lock in question perhaps at Suhl too.

[SchildaBrit]

Thanks Corrado for a very interesting suggestion. My photo wasn't very good, as one can't see that the pan is also facetted.

I find dozens of Spangenbergs (or should that be Spangeberge?) in Stöckel, but no mention of a Spangenberg & Spangenberg. Can you give me a source for that?

The resemblance to the lock on the Prussian "Jägerbüchse" is striking. And I posed the S et S question some time ago on a French forum, with zero suggestions in response, so it does indeed look as if this is a case of a German firm using a fashionable "upmarket" French style of naming.

[corrado26]

I find dozens of Spangenbergs (or should that be Spangeberge?) in Stöckel, but no mention of a Spangenberg & Spangenberg. Can you give me a source for that?


This "Spangenberg & Spangenberg" was nothing than a theory, you cannot find this combination in the New Stoeckel. I just looked for two Suhl gunmakers which could have been working together during the same time :)