Arms and Armor in the works of Albrecht Dürer

[shayde78]

Here is another project I’ve been working on. Albrecht Dürer is one of the illustrators of the Guttenberg Chronicle (to view the thread on that work, see here - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26105) that contributed his talents to some of the woodblocks used in that work. To be fair, he was likely an apprentice at that point, but some of his later skills were starting to emerge. Also, wood block printing doesn't allow the same level of detail as engravings.

Dürer lived from 1471 – 1528, and truly gained prominence in the mid-1490s, spending time in Germany (the country of his birth) as well as Italy. He was a master in multiple media. However, being a sound pragmatist, he preferred engravings because he could work on a single piece, have several printings commissioned, and the investment of his talents would continue to pay dividends. Compared to working on a single painting for a single commission, he recognized how much more efficient engraving and printing would be. I find this fortunate, because the detail he was able to achieve in his engravings make them a valuable resource for studying Europe in the late 15th, early 16th centuries.
As it relates to the subject matter of arms and armor, Dürer was more than simply a casual observer. His engravings reveal a clear familiarity with and understanding of the tools of the warfare of his day. If further evidence is needed, illustrations he prepared for a Fechtbuch survive showing he understood the use of arms, not just their aesthetic qualities. Additionally, Dürer authored a treatise on the design of fortifications, demonstrating the level of thought he applied to these matters.
So, to serve as a reference for members of this forum, I went through Walter . Strauss’ “The Complete Engravings, Etchings, and Drypoints of Albrecht Dürer” from 1973. From this volume, I identified the works that include representations of armor, swords, knives, arrows/bolt, pole arms, etc. These show not only the details of the arms themselves, but also how they were carried, the accessories like belts, sheaths, saddle rings, and the like. I have tried to post these images in chronological order in which Dürer completed them so that they can be fixed in their corresponding time. I will also try to include only a single picture per post so that they can be easily referenced for discussion. I mention the book I used as reference, because I have subsequently found other works not included in this text. After I have posted, if other wish to add to this thread additional works they can attribute to this specific artist, feel free to do so.


I hope this information is useful, and as I’ve said in similar threads, this is my way to contribute to and repay the generous sharing of expertise that members of this forum have demonstrated over the years.

To kick off, a piece titled, "Five Lansquents and an Oriental* on Horseback" from 1495.

*I use the title of the work, acknowledging that the use of the word 'Oriental' to describe a person is offensive.

[shayde78]

This one is called "The Small Courier" from 1496. The head of the Courier is thought to be another representation of the face on the fellow to the right of the work in the previous post.

[shayde78]

This one is called, "The Cook and His Wife" from 1496.

I like seeing images of the more mundane utility knives (like the one at the cook's waist), and feel they can help distinguish between these and more elaborate forms from the same period.

[shayde78]

This is titled "Oriental* Family", from 1496.
The bow, when compared to those of Europe at the time, seems to well reflect a bow from the East.


*I use the title of the work, acknowledging that the use of the word 'Oriental' to describe a person/people is offensive

[shayde78]

This one is titled, "Rustic Couple" dated 1497.
Some have interpreted this as an intoxicated Lansquenet menacing either his wife or another woman. I'm curious if the hilt of his knife indicates a knightly class, or a more humble station.

[shayde78]

"Three Peasants in Conversation", dated 1497.

Note the hilt in the belt on the right is similar to the previous image. Also, the use of a sword as a cane was a satirical trope of the period. The tattered appearance of the sheath likely indicates some level of disdain. Also, a 'peasant' wearing spurs may indicate a man who fancies himself 'above his station' in a rigidly stratified society. Or, I could simply be unaware that peasant would have occasion to wear spurs.

[Victrix]

This is titled "Oriental* Family", from 1496.
The bow, when compared to those of Europe at the time, seems to well reflect a bow from the East.


*I use the title of the work, acknowledging that the use of the word 'Oriental' to describe a person/people is offensive

Why ”offensive” to describe someone as oriental??

It’s interesting that he came in contact with people from the Orient at that time, when traveling was so ardous and fraught with danger. Presumably it was from his time in Italy. It’s my impression that people traveled more in old days than imagined!

He’s a great artist showing details in a realistic way.

[shayde78]

"Lady on Horseback and Lansquenet", 1497

Nice halberd and sword hilt visible. Also, good representation of an ostrich feather, which adorned the helms of knights of the era, here atop the young lady's head.

[shayde78]

Why ”offensive” to describe someone as oriental??



Good question - I have received pretty universal feedback from folks who are Asian that 'oriental' should be used to refer to objects (arms, carpets, etc.), while people should be referred to as 'Asian', or more specifically, to the region and/or country being referenced (i.e. Persian, South Asian, etc.).

[shayde78]

It’s interesting that he came in contact with people from the Orient at that time, when traveling was so ardous and fraught with danger. Presumably it was from his time in Italy. It’s my impression that people traveled more in old days than imagined!

He’s a great artist showing details in a realistic way.

I agree that the large cities in Europe (especially the Mediterranean) likely saw residents and visitors from many regions. Warfare also brought people into contact with one another. Travel was how commerce was transacted, so there was a great deal more travel than we tend to consider. It wasn't cheap or safe, but it happened.

[shayde78]

"Young Couple Threatened by Death", 1498

Almost a hanger-like style. I believe there is meant to be a spirit of ease portrayed by the young couple, unaware, as youth often is, that death stalks everyone. If this was indeed the intent, then the choice of sword represented could be intentionally one that would have been worn with civilian dress at times when no threat was expected, but was still prepared for. Similar to the so called 'pillow swords' of later eras. I admit, I take a lot of leaps with my interpretation of this one.

[shayde78]

"The Sea Monster", 1498.

I included this one as the figure on the far shore has a sword at his waist. There isn't much detail here, but I am trying to include all the works that portray a weapon of some type. The sword looks like a shamshir, but again, detail isn't great.

[shayde78]

"Sol Justitiae", 1499

The year 1499 was experienced with a great deal of anxiety in Nuremberg and across Europe. If we recall the anxiety around the end of 1999 (Y2K?), we can relate how we pick arbitrary dates and whole numbers to believe the end of the world is near. The Emperor's army was defeated in the Swiss War. The authorities 'expelled' Jewish families from Nuremberg. Fierce, divine judgement fit the spirit of the day. The style of the sword hilt recalls similar hilts held by similarly divine figures in the Nuremberg Chronicle.

[shayde78]

"St. Sebastian at the Column", 1499

The violent fates of Saints were a popular subject for artists throughout the last 200 years. I present this one simply for the arrow fletching portrayed. Sebastian is a subject of a number of subsequent works, but his end is unfortunate in all.

[shayde78]

"Coat of Arms with a Rooster", 1500.

I like simple titles. It isn't thought that this is a coat specific to any family, but does nicely depict a helm of the time period.

[shayde78]

I'm about a third of the way through my list of works. I'll post more here soon when I am able to steal some additional time. Hope these are interesting to those who have taken a look thus far.

[shayde78]

"St. Sebastian at the Tree", 1501

Another depiction of Sebastian, this time at a tree. The arrows don't actually intersect the figure, and it is thought that this originally was meant yo depict Marsyas tied to a tree, but adding the arrows made it more marketable as iconography of a Saint.

[shayde78]

"St. Eustace", 1501

Durer's largest engraving. A good example of a hand-and-a-half hilt and a bullock dagger,

[shayde78]

"The Standard Bearer", 1502

[shayde78]

"St. George on Foot", 1502

Another hand-and-half sword and some nice details on the armor.

[shayde78]

"Apollo and Diana", 1502

A European bow? Or one from the East to show the exotic nature of the gods? Also, isn't Diana supposed to have the bow?

[shayde78]

"Coat of Arms with Skull", 1503

Another nicely depicted helm, this time in profile.

[shayde78]

First image, "The Small Horse", 1505
Second image, "The Large Horse", 1505

I felt like these should be posted together (so the horse had company).
Nice pole arms.

[shayde78]

"St. George on Horseback", 1505 (completed 1508)

Nice armor detail

[shayde78]

"Agony in the Garden", 1508

The artist's interpretation of archaic sword?

[shayde78]

The next few are from a series depicting the Passion of Christ.
In order below:

"Christ Before Caliphas", 1512
Good depiction of pole arms, similar to some I highlighted in the Nuremberg Chronicle.

"Christ Before Pilate", 1512
Interesting swords, pole arms, but also a neat looking war hammer

"Flagellation", 1512
Sword hilt, forward curved quillions

"Christ Crowned with Thorns", 1512
A rondel dagger on the kneeling figure's hip

"Ecce Homo", 1512
Bullock dagger at hip

"Pilate Washing his Hands", 1512
Pole arms in background

"Bearing of the Cross", 1512
Similar to the earlier image of the three peasants, notice the damaged scabbard. A sign of disdain? A common occurrence among the poorer classes?
Also, some pole arms, and a holy water spinkler mace head in the background?

"Resurrection", 1512
Pole arm, war hammer

[shayde78]

"Knight, Death, and the Devil", 1513
One of the more well known of Durer's work, and one that has been posted more than once elsewhere on this forum. Good detail on the sword, armor, horse's tack, etc. A well executed piece, all around.

[shayde78]

"St. Thomas", 1514

[shayde78]

"Peasant Couple Dancing", 1514
I like these rustic scenes! It is subtle, but the knife at the woman's hip is interesting since we often see folks on this forum ask, could this be a woman's knife? Seems the woman's knife here is of the same proportions as others the artist has etched.

[shayde78]

"Bagpiper", 1514

Short sword on a Highlander's hip? I'm guessing bagpipes weren't limited to north of Hadrian's Wall.

[shayde78]

"Agony in the Garden", 1515
Reinterpretation of the scene, with a different sword depicted.

[shayde78]

"Landscape with Cannon", 1518
The cannon is decorated with the coat of arms of Nuremberg. It is believed to be the weapon that gave Emperor Maximillian I superior firepower over the Turks. It is not known if the Turk depicted is a prisoner or an ambassador. Durer used his own likeness as the head of the Turk.

[shayde78]

"Peasant and His Wife", 1519
We've seen this hilt before, also attributed to "peasants". Interesting that the artist's decision to use the same hilt design after so many years had passed. Habit of the artist, or does it speak to longevity of a peasant's style. If one values utility over fashion, there likely is little reason to change from a design that is working well enough.

[shayde78]

"Cardinal Albrecht of Brandenburg", 1523
Sword on the wall in the background

[shayde78]

"St. Bartholomew", 1523
The knife blade is interesting. Reminiscent of the blade held in a fist that serves as a maker's mark.

[shayde78]

"St. Simon", 1523
The instrument in his hand is a saw, rather than a weapon. Still, I included here because the hilt looks like something that, if we saw on a weapon, we might speculate, "could that be from a tool, rather than a sword?" Now we have an example of a saw handle for reference

[shayde78]

"Frederick the Wise", 1524
Crossed sword upper left corner.

[shayde78]

And, that's all of them - feel free to discuss, or simply reference as related to items you have in your collection.

I'm always curious to read your thoughts and comments. Overall, I hope this proves useful to some of you as it is my way of paying tuition for the education this forum has provided me over the years.

[corrado26]

It is the first time today that I saw your many posts which I looked at with great interest. Dürer's opus is really really remarkable and ingenious and I have to thank you to having posted it here.

[Victrix]

Good question - I have received pretty universal feedback from folks who are Asian that 'oriental' should be used to refer to objects (arms, carpets, etc.), while people should be referred to as 'Asian', or more specifically, to the region and/or country being referenced (i.e. Persian, South Asian, etc.).

Thank you for alerting me to this. I looked into it and it may be more of a US specific issue.

Orient comes from Latin Oriens which is ”rising” and means East (where the sun rises). The point of reference for ancient Romans of course was the City of Rome. The opposite of orient is occident which means West in Latin.

In the US apparently the word oriental was considered to be a racial and derogatory term in the 1970s (perhaps due to the Vietnam war?) and its use has been phased out.

The word oriental in Europe has perhaps become a bit imprecise as it now includes the Middle East and all of Asia, but the word is hardly considered derogatory. As example can be mentioned the prestigeous School of African and Oriental Studies in London (SOAS).

[Philip]

*I use the title of the work, acknowledging that the use of the word 'Oriental' to describe a person is offensive.

The Latin oriens / orientis, "east", as opposed to occidens / occidentis "west", derive from the verbs orire and occidere, "to rise" and "to set" respectively, in reference to the movement of the sun. One would think that cardinal directions and astronomical phenomena are pretty neutral concepts.

People will always attach baggage to words and labels. In the US, the term "Southerner" inspires certain knee-jerk connotations with a lot of people who are not from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

[Philip]

The word oriental in Europe has perhaps become a bit imprecise as it now includes the Middle East and all of Asia, but the word is hardly considered derogatory. As example can be mentioned the prestigeous School of African and Oriental Studies in London (SOAS).

Usage as a geographic and cultural identifier has indeed been rather loosey-goosey depending on place, time, and individual. For a long time in Europe and Britain, "Oriental" seems to have been primarily associated with the Middle East and India, and "the Far East" to the rest of Asia. Some auctions still categorize their lots using this approach. Kilijs and kulah-khuds being Oriental arms, whereas keris, katanas, and dhas being Far Eastern / Fernost, Extrême-Orient. In the US, I've noted that the term Oriental, in the popular conception, is most associated with the Far East and the term is still accepted among the expat Korean and Filipino communities here.

Note that Robert Hales' lavish picture book, his career retrospective, is entitled Islamic and Oriental Arms and Armour: A Lifetime's Passion. Nothing wrong with covering all the bases.

[Philip]

In the US apparently the word oriental was considered to be a racial and derogatory term in the 1970s (perhaps due to the Vietnam war?) and its use has been phased out.
.

Interesting to note the changing fashions in some ethnic labels in American English usage. In the 19th cent., the term "Dutchman" was often applied to Germans (who after all hailed from Deutschland), and it became a somewhat pejorative term.

For most of our history, African Americans were officially labeled Negroes (from Latin niger, "black" ) but aside from continuing usage in reference to Negro spirituals (songs) and the former Negro League (baseball) it has fallen out of general usage due to its phonetic similarity with its repugnant derivative. However, the term Negro is still used in common speech, along with Black, in Europe and the UK perhaps because of differing historical realities. I don't know anyone from across the pond who uses the term "African-American".

As I noted in another post, the term Oriental has not been universally condemned in US Asian communities. It's still used among Asians in Hawaii, and to identify products and organizations (including churches) among Korean and Filipino immigrant communities. However, some "progressively minded" people do bristle... I recall one ChineseAmerican female author, during an interview, indignantly blurt out "...well, I am NOT a carpet!" PC can be a minefield...

[Philip]

"Bagpiper", 1514

Short sword on a Highlander's hip? I'm guessing bagpipes weren't limited to north of Hadrian's Wall.

Yes, you are spot on. The bagpipes, thought to be a legacy of the great Celtic migrations across Europe BCE, were a popular instrument, particularly among the common folk, across the Continent. In Germany they are known as the Düdelsack, in Italy, zampogna.

One of my most vivid memories of Spain was a trip, decades ago, to attend the Fiesta de Santiago de Compostela, in Galicia, the northwest corner of the country which has been a Celtic cultural stronghold for centuries. Never conquered by the Romans nor the Moors... The gaita gallega is the traditional instrument there, mouth-blown like the Scots Highland piob-mor though somewhat smaller and with fewer drone pipes, played by bands marching through the streets with drums, around the Cathedral.

An interesting thing, archaeologically, is the discovery of numerous stone boars in that region and in northern Portugal -- worshiped by the pre-Christian Celt-Iberian inhabitants as symbols of courage, much as did the Celts who fought the Romans, blowing their war-trumpets made of bronze, fashioned with open tusked boars' mouths instead of a funnel shape.

[Philip]

"Agony in the Garden", 1508

The artist's interpretation of archaic sword?

Very interesting print, thanks for sharing it. Viewed in conjunction with "Sol Justitia" in post 13, it's significant in that the swords are depicted with the leather or metal rain-covers on their crossguards, to keep moisture out when the weapon is sheathed. This, of course, is very seldom seen intact on extant medieval and Renaissance swords due to their fragility. Another reason why period work by noted artists is so useful for documentary purposes.

For those wanting to see the real thing, there are a couple of Italian swords of the period published in Boccia/Coelho, Armi Bianche Italiane (1975). I believe Oakeshott's Records of the Medieval Sword may have a few more examples of hilts with intact chapes as well.

[Philip]

"St. Bartholomew", 1523
The knife blade is interesting. Reminiscent of the blade held in a fist that serves as a maker's mark.

Reminds me of a mini-falchion blade. The profile is almost a spitting image of the one on p 224 of Stone's Glossary... which is identified as German, 15th cent. (Metropolitan Museum of Art).

[Philip]

"Landscape with Cannon", 1518
The cannon is decorated with the coat of arms of Nuremberg. It is believed to be the weapon that gave Emperor Maximillian I superior firepower over the Turks. It is not known if the Turk depicted is a prisoner or an ambassador. Durer used his own likeness as the head of the Turk.

There is a strong likelihood that the workshop also produced a very similar cannon for King Sigismund I of Poland, used by his joint Polish-Lithuanian forces in the battle of Orsza (Orsha) in Byelorussia, 1514, in which a Muscovite army was defeated. The battle, and the weapon, are memorialized in the gigantic oil painting "Battle of Orsha", now in the Muzeum Narodowe in Warsaw. The late arms and art historian Prof. Zdzislaw Zygulski wrote a magisterial article on this work of art, and discusses the cannon in relation to the one in Dürer's 1518 print, in "The Battle of Orsha" , in Robert Held (ed) Art, Arms, and Armour (1979), if you wish to explore the topic further.

[shayde78]

Reminds me of a mini-falchion blade. The profile is almost a spitting image of the one on p 224 of Stone's Glossary... which is identified as German, 15th cent. (Metropolitan Museum of Art).

St. Bart was martyred by being flayed alive. He is often depicted holding a skinning or flensing knife and also wrapped in his own skin. The texture of the 'garment' may well indicate some type of 'leather'. If I wanted to trademark a blade with an icon symbolizing a keen edge, I might choose to borrow from the iconography of St. Bartholomew.

[Philip]

"St. Simon", 1523
The instrument in his hand is a saw, rather than a weapon. Still, I included here because the hilt looks like something that, if we saw on a weapon, we might speculate, "could that be from a tool, rather than a sword?" Now we have an example of a saw handle for reference

He is believe to have flourished in the 1st cent. AD, and is mentioned in the Gospel of Luke as "Simon the Zealot" for his reputed membership in that Jewish nationalist movement. There is an apocryphal book, Acts of Simon, that is not contained in the New Testament.

The implement is indeed a saw, he was martyred by being sawn in half. The place of his demise is not certain, variously placed in Greece or Persia.

As we've discussed in your previous excellent thread on the Nürnberg Chronicles, religious iconography of the era often depicted Saints with the instruments of their martyrdom -- such as Catherine and the spiked wheel, Sebastian with arrows, and Lawrence holding or standing next to the gridiron on which he was roasted.

[Philip]

"Lady on Horseback and Lansquenet", 1497

Nice halberd and sword hilt visible. Also, good representation of an ostrich feather, which adorned the helms of knights of the era, here atop the young lady's head.

There must have been quite a trade in ostrich feathers in those days. All the way from Africa -- the well-to-do have throughout history managed to get their hands on imported luxuries from afar, whether they be porcelains from China or peppercorns and cloves from India.

Dürer's works are an invaluable documentary source for the arms and costume of his time. The profile of the halberd's ax blade, along with the protruding flanges flanking the pointed beak, clearly match the styles catalogued by Ewart Oakeshott as falling within the period 1450-1520, closely approximating the artist's lifespan. See Oakeshott's European Weapons and Armour pp 46-48 for an illustration of the weapon's evolution and of its principal regional styles in the South German / Swiss / northern Italian territories.

[Victrix]

PC can be a minefield...

Indeed. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

The Latin oriens / orientis, "east", as opposed to occidens / occidentis "west", derive from the verbs orire and occidere, "to rise" and "to set" respectively, in reference to the movement of the sun. One would think that cardinal directions and astronomical phenomena are pretty neutral concepts.

People will always attach baggage to words and labels. In the US, the term "Southerner" inspires certain knee-jerk connotations with a lot of people who are not from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

I agree with the perfect description 'baggage' to words and labels!!!
When I moved from California to Tennessee, I recall the locals commenting to each other when one called me a 'yankee'.
The other said, "nah, he's from California, he aint nuthin'" in a drawl from the holler I could barely understand :)

As they would say here in Texas (didnt bother me none though).

[Jim McDougall]

And, that's all of them - feel free to discuss, or simply reference as related to items you have in your collection.

I'm always curious to read your thoughts and comments. Overall, I hope this proves useful to some of you as it is my way of paying tuition for the education this forum has provided me over the years.


Shayde, I just wanted to thank you for entering these, and especially for placing them as separate entries so we can discuss each individually. It is much easier than trying to refer to a long block of images of different works.
It is a very thoughtful thing to take the time to add these great works of Durer, who I think was an amazing artist with the detail in his illustration (especially in the arms) and the context.

These always remind me of the intriguing and mysterious illustrations in the Johnny Depp movie "The Ninth Gate" in thier character.

No tuition needed here :) we all learn together and from each other. :)

[Jim McDougall]

"St. Simon", 1523
The instrument in his hand is a saw, rather than a weapon. Still, I included here because the hilt looks like something that, if we saw on a weapon, we might speculate, "could that be from a tool, rather than a sword?" Now we have an example of a saw handle for reference

Tools and weapons have always run close parallels, and often the rank and file in assembled forces were simply peasant farmers and the like who wielded whatever tools or implements they had at hand. Many weapons, especially many pole arms were made from or designed from bill hooks and tools of this kind.

The serrated blades of the swords used by the sappers etc in military forces were of course used as saws as well as a weapon as required.

[Jim McDougall]

As noted in post #35 re: hand holding a dagger

[Jim McDougall]

Re: Post 32, landscape with cannon, 1518
Added coat of arms of Nuremberg as depicted on cannon.

This was apparently one of a number of 'iron plates' and depicting curiously a group of Ottomans around an outdated cannon from Nuremberg. At this time Maximilian I, Holy Roman emperor was calling for a crusade against the Turks, which did not materialize. The symbolism in the work is unclear.

[Jim McDougall]

In post #1, this Durer engraving depicts as titled, five landsknechts and an oriental.
The landsknechts were actually German mercenaries who used Swiss fighting methods and arms from the latter 15th century. The most discernible weapon is the 'halberd' poleaxe here.

It is curious why the 'oriental' person is included here, but it seems that Durer was profoundly influenced by Italian Renaissance art. Attached is a painting of Mehmed II by Bellini from 1480 (note the addition of the crowns in background reflecting the same conventions of these addendums in Durer's work).
Durer had traveled to Italy in 1494 just as the Italian wars were beginning and surely saw the forces involved assembled at places.

It seems that Renaissance artists had a fascination with 'oriental' figures, which Durer adopted as well. He added an oriental figure to his own coat of arms, and this affectation seems a sort of 'exotica' which he seems to have been drawn to.

The weapon most discernible here is the Swiss halberd held by the figure at far right. The hook at the back of the axe head was to pull a rider from his horse.

[Jim McDougall]

This work from post #33 here, is intriguing as the hilt style is noted.

What is remarkable here is that this hilt style appears to be of the 'karabela' form, which did not become known until around 17th century in Poland and Hungary. It is believed that the style was adopted from Ottoman sabers, but their exact origins and when they were used remains unclear.
Here it is remarkable to see this hilt style in this work of 1519, well over a century before it became known in Eastern Europe.

Again, it would seem the attraction to 'oriental' (i.e. Ottoman) imagery is apparent.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
I'm not sure this has anything to do with Karabela forms. The farmers knife or Bauernwehr was well established in Europe and as I see it this is the type of knife the man is wearing.
My Regards,
Norman.

[fernando]

... I recall one ChineseAmerican female author, during an interview, indignantly blurt out "...well, I am NOT a carpet!" PC can be a minefield...
Well, if the interview took place in my (European) neck of the woods, the lady would be Asian, having finished eating in an Asian Restaurant, which was situated in the Oriental part of the city ;).

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jim,
I'm not sure this has anything to do with Karabela forms. The farmers knife or Bauernwehr was well established in Europe and as I see it this is the type of knife the man is wearing.
My Regards,
Norman.


Thanks Norman, purely a free association, but the similarity is keen in my view. I am not too familiar with the knives you describe so did not take that into account. It seemed interesting though that this form hilt which appeared in either Iraq or these areas at undetermined period.

[fernando]

... Yes, you are spot on. The bagpipes, thought to be a legacy of the great Celtic migrations across Europe BCE, were a popular instrument, particularly among the common folk, across the Continent...

:o Apparently now evidenced as being an earlier instrument, in all its variants, according to those who claim the "Celtic myth", after finding that bagpipes developed their own distinct path, as early as cited in Biblic texts (Prophet Daniel, circa 600 BC.).

... In Germany they are known as the Düdelsack, in Italy, zampogna.
Not forgetting the Swedish säckpipa, for another ... also probably not so early.

... of my most vivid memories of Spain was a trip, decades ago, to attend the Fiesta de Santiago de Compostela, in Galicia, the northwest corner of the country which has been a Celtic cultural stronghold for centuries. Never conquered by the Romans nor the Moors... The gaita gallega is the traditional instrument there, mouth-blown like the Scots Highland piob-mor though somewhat smaller and with fewer drone pipes, played by bands marching through the streets with drums, around the Cathedral ...
As you unfortunately missed our gathering over here a few months ago, Filipe, you had no opportunity to check on "gaitas de foles" also playing in Portugal, some even in regions distant from Galician lands, these in slighly different variants ;) :shrug:.

[Victrix]

"Peasant and His Wife", 1519
We've seen this hilt before, also attributed to "peasants". Interesting that the artist's decision to use the same hilt design after so many years had passed. Habit of the artist, or does it speak to longevity of a peasant's style. If one values utility over fashion, there likely is little reason to change from a design that is working well enough.

To my mind the man is wearing a form of Messer (Germanic type of single edge knife) as Norman mentioned, which would be a smaller and shorter version of Langes/Grosses or Kriegs Messer. This was a form of Bauernwehr (farmer sidearm) which was popular across all classes at the time. The Messers did not have pommels but often had a ”beak” at the end of the hilt to prevent it from slipping out of the hand. Don’t know how old these Messers are but wouldn’t rule out origins from migration age like the scramaseax.

Now that Jim mentions it the pommel looks rather similar to the karabela. It’s commonly assumed that the karabela has Oriental/Ottoman origins but maybe the hilt form comes from the Langes Messer (Germanic).

[Victrix]

To kick off, a piece titled, "Five Lansquents and an Oriental* on Horseback" from 1495.


I note that the oriental is carrying a sword and looks military. What would he be doing with the Landsknechts? He might be a Stradioti (light cavalry mercenary from Ottoman provinces in Albania/Greece/Serbia) most of whom were Christian but also some muslims. Orthodox Christians in Ottoman lands seemed to have largely adopted Ottoman dress and arms and might in some cases have worn turbans.

[Jim McDougall]

I note that the oriental is carrying a sword and looks military. What would he be doing with the Landsknechts? He might be a Stradioti (light cavalry mercenary from Ottoman provinces in Albania/Greece/Serbia) most of whom were Christian but also some muslims. Orthodox Christians in Ottoman lands seem to have largely adopted Ottoman dress and arms and might in some cases wear turbans.

Thank you for the note on the karabela resemblance, in the example in the illustration discussed, which indeed has a pommel with a sort of undulation as the later form of karabelas which often appeared almost trilobate.

The hilt pictured of the messer suggests these types of weapon had the hook or beak in degree but with smooth bird head type pommel surface.

Very good points on the Stradioti, who were apparently much of the basis for European light cavalry. These multiple ethnic groups, the forerunners of the notorious pandours who were auxiliary forces to Austria and later other European armies.
The 'exotic' oriental fashions were intended to look more fearsome given the 'wild' reputation of these groups of horsemen. Many Balkan regions were very ethnically diverse as noted.

As the Landsknechts themselves were mercenaries of course, it does not seem unreasonable that these 'oriental' appearing (if not indeed ethnically so) horsemen would have been assembled as part of forces about to join in impending campaign.

[Philip]

When I moved from California to Tennessee, I recall the locals commenting to each other when one called me a 'yankee'.
The other said, "nah, he's from California, he aint nuthin'" in a drawl from the holler I could barely understand :)
.

That's funny, Jim -- a friend in NC occasionally calls me a Yankee when I tell him something that doesn't fit in with his notions and beliefs. However, my response is that if you take the Mason-Dixon Line, and extrapolate it all the way across the country to the Pacific, California (or at least my patch of it), lies well to the south of it. And I never tire of telling such folks that our neighboring Orange County was once part of Los Angeles County until it SECEDED in the late 19th cent. Many of the inhabitants thereof were Confederate vets who migrated and settled there after 1865, and, well, they just had this sentiment in their blood... There is in fact a Confederate soldiers cemetery in the county, with a monument dedicated to these brave souls. I know this gal who has Southern roots, she's a musician and is recruited each year for an impromptu band to play "Dixie" on Confederate Memorial Day. OMG, wait til the guardians of PC hear about THAT!

Yeah, California ain't nothin'. Knew another chap, from a Boston Brahmin family, who thought the West Coast lay beyond the borders of the US and joked that he should carry his passport when going to San Fran. And wondered what currency is used in Hawaii and Alaska.

[Victrix]

"Peasant and His Wife", 1519
We've seen this hilt before, also attributed to "peasants". Interesting that the artist's decision to use the same hilt design after so many years had passed. Habit of the artist, or does it speak to longevity of a peasant's style. If one values utility over fashion, there likely is little reason to change from a design that is working well enough.

Messers (German for knife) in different forms of Bauernwehr (farmer’s arms) are covered in this excellent post from 2012: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15053. It’s believed that the Langes/Grosses Messer grew out of the common farmer’s knife. They were presumably cheaper to produce and required less training to use than knightly swords. Apparently many Landsknechts were originally farmers. From memory there were distictions in terms of guilds in who was allowed to produce knives and who was allowed to produce and market swords.

[Interested Party]

"Apollo and Diana", 1502

A European bow? Or one from the East to show the exotic nature of the gods? Also, isn't Diana supposed to have the bow?

If I remember correctly Apollo was an archer also, he and Artemis were twins after all. Besides real arrows his arrows in the Iliad were disease.

[Philip]

Here's an example of what I was talking about in my previous post on the topic, and which is illustrated in the prints in Posts 13 and 25. 'Just found this image while browsing Boccia/Coelho, Armi Bianche Italiane.

A rain-guard of leather, but in this case of metal, between the grip and crossguard, with projecting flanges on each face which go over the scabbard mouth and keep the dirt and moisture out. A fragile component that is missing on 99.9% of surviving swords. This one, on an estoc attributed by pommel markings to Estorre Visconti, Lord of Milan (died 1413). The fragility of these chapes is exemplified by the fact that on this one, the flange on the reverse side has long since been broken off.