Powder horn and unidentified object

[AHorsa]

Hi there,

I just got those two object. Can anyone date the powder horn? I think it should be 16th to 17th century?!

It came with this 35cm long "ramrod" but actually I really doubt it is a ramrod. It is made from iron. The tip in form of a stylized lion is made from brass.

Would be great if someone can identify those pieces.

Best regards
Andreas

[kahnjar1]

Hi Andreas,
Just a suggestion about the "ramrod"......could it be a spike for clearing the touch hole of a cannon?
Stu

[adrian]

That spike/rod is too large in diameter to enter the vent of an artillery piece.

[AHorsa]

Thanks for the comments! Anyone else an idea about this piece?

[BAW]

The shape of the unknown object is very similar to a butchers' steel for sharpening knives.

[AHorsa]

I think for a butcher´s steel the lion (which tahn would be the hilt) is too small. Also the shape of the lion´s "noise" wouldn´t make sens then, as it semms to be supposed to push something.

[fernando]

Why descarding the ramrod possibility, guys ?
In some cultures the ramrod is a separate device, often intrincate and highly decorated. You take the Turkish "Suma", for one (Stone page 587).
Say Andreas, which is the thickness of that rod you are showing us?

.

[AHorsa]

Hi Fernando,

thanks for the input. The thikness of the iron part is max. 1,3cm, the lion is max. 1,5cm

Cheers
Andreas

[rickystl]

Hi Andreas

The flask looks to be a late 16th to early 17th Century staghorn type poeder flask. Although the metal parts are missing and the engraving seems a bit crude. Possibly done by an amature/hobbist on their first attempt. Here is a Forum Link from about 8 years ago that will give you a better idea of it's origins with comment from Matchlock. I was very fortunate to receive his comments.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14271

The length of that rod would be about correct for many pistols. So it could be a Suma as Fernando mentions - with a spike end to double as a stabbing point in a back-up situation. Just my guess.

Rick

[AHorsa]

Hi Rick,

thanks for the link to the very interesting thread. Great to see the variety of examples of this staghorn flasks. Well, the artist of my one wasn´t the gifted one. That poor chap also has a broken sword ;)

I am still not sure about the "ramrod". Suma might be a possibility, but browsing the web I don´t have the feeling that it is one. But it is absolutely not my field...

Best regards
Andreas

[Richard G]

Could it be something as mundane as a hefty meat skewer?
Regards
Richard

[fernando]

Tell me the place where they serve meat with these skewers, so that i can take out one hidden under my jacket ;) .

[fernando]

... Suma might be a possibility, but browsing the web I don´t have the feeling that it is one... The Suma approach was only a manner to expand on the (any) ram rod possibility.

[Richard G]

These?

[fernando]

Now, i am largely convinced, Richard ;) .

[AHorsa]

I´d like to push up this thread again, as this rod is still a mistery to me. Maybe meanwhile someone has an idea what it could have been.
I am convinced, that the brass animal part was to mush something, as its "nose" seem. Any ideas appreciated.

Kind regards
Andreas

[Raf]

[QUOTE
I am convinced, that the brass animal part was to mush something, as its "nose" seem. Any ideas appreciated.

Surprised no one has mentioned marlin spike. Sailors general purpose tool for rope work and extemporary weapon. I agree that the bronze end looks like it was intended to mush something. Like compacting serpentine powder in a cannon flash pan. Essential to stop it blowing away but this is just a guess. Either way it has an early feel to it.

[AHorsa]

Thanks for your thought. Interesting thesis. I don´t know about the exact form of the flash pan. But for mushing I would assume some traces on the head of the animal. But there are only traces of use on the flat nose.
I want to mention, that the iron shaft is also inside the brass animal. I tried to virtualize it. Sorry for my bad drawings skills :)
That make me assume, that the device was made to hammer at the nose of the animal.

[BBJW]

Hi Andreas

The flask looks to be a late 16th to early 17th Century staghorn type poeder flask. Although the metal parts are missing and the engraving seems a bit crude. Possibly done by an amature/hobbist on their first attempt. Here is a Forum Link from about 8 years ago that will give you a better idea of it's origins with comment from Matchlock. I was very fortunate to receive his comments.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14271

The length of that rod would be about correct for many pistols. So it could be a Suma as Fernando mentions - with a spike end to double as a stabbing point in a back-up situation. Just my guess.

Rick

Agreed.--bbjw