Significance of Beaded Edges/Borders on South Indian Weapons?

[Nihl]

Hi all,

One big feature that I've noticed is present on a lot of south Indian arms and armor is a "beaded edge" that usually trails along the rim of the object. While my library is far from complete, all of the "classics" that I've read fail to actually describe the importance or the reason why this aesthetic element is included. Having recently caught up on my Elgood, unless I missed something, I can say for sure that even he doesn't explain the existence of this feature, aside from doing what every other author has done in stating that it designates an item as being south Indian.

When I turned to do a bit of internet research, what I was able to find was a connection with the beaded edge and south Indian architecture, however this link seems to be flimsy at best as - for the life of me - I am unable to find any examples of south Indian buildings with beaded edges on them. Plenty of examples of round-ish symbols or leaves lined up in a row, or feet from figures standing shoulder-to-shoulder, but no standalone beaded rims. I am aware that architecture is one of the bigger influences on hilt motifs, however, again, for the life of me I cannot find any examples of an architectural link between the two.

My only personal theory for this would that it might be somehow related to the importance of a string of pearls under a chhatri (umbrella/parasol) - something that could be represented as a vertical line of beads/circles - but as far as I'm aware the inclusion of a chhatri was mostly done on north Indian weapons, and wasn't incorporated into south Indian designs as much.

Again, I still have quite a bit of reading to do, so if some author somewhere has already explained the motif, I'd be very grateful in knowing who did so & in what publication. Otherwise, I can't find any explanation as to it's importance or why it is included so prominently in many south Indian arms. The pictures included are all examples of beaded edges on Indian weapons.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Nihl,
I cant, unfortunately, tell you much about the beads, other than they were used a lot in South India, and seems later to have been used in other places as well. If you have A Passion for Indian Arms you should check the pages below.
The pata detail you show is indeed South Indian (p. 347-349) 16th to early 17th century. Do yu see the peacocks or hamsa's on top of the gauntlet?

The katar below (p. 173-174) Tanjore 16th to early 17th century.
The tulwar (p. 213-215) Rajasthan late 18th to early 19th century, with an etched mark on the blade from the Kishangarh armoury.


Robert Elgood: Rajput Arms & Armour, The Rathores & Their Armoury at Jodhpur Fort. Vol. II, p. 344-345. A tulwar hilt with beards on the disc, the quillons and on the langets. Hilt late 19th century.


Other bearded weapons can be seen in different books, but I have yet to see an explanation why they were bearded.

[mross]

Let me first plead ignorance on knowledge of this area. However I do not think smiths of yesteryear are much different than smiths of today. I think it's the cool factor and the smiths way of showing their skill.

[Mercenary]

Nihl, this is an ancient non-vedic tradition most likely Tamil in origin when cows, warhorses, elefants and people were decorated with flower or bell garlands. These were not only ornaments for the fests, weddings and so. The tradition was rooted in religious and mystical views and closely related to military traditions and weapons accordingly.

Million thanks for such theme.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Marcenary, this is a very week explanation, and it does not help much.
There are a lot of katars and other weapons from South India without these beads. Had it really been such a deep religious thing with them, I am sure we would have seen this kind of decoration far more often.


Mross, you may have a point, but I think there is more to it than that. It could be a fashion, which later moved more to the north. It seems as if Bundi, Kotah and Sind used it as well in later centuries, but as far as I know it did not move more north than to the states just north of Deccan.

[Mercenary]

Marcenary, this is a very week explanation, and it does not help much.
There are a lot of katars and other weapons from South India without these beads. Had it really been such a deep religious thing with them, I am sure we would have seen this kind of decoration far more often.

Of course. As well as not all cows in India are decorated with flower garlands.
;)

[Jim McDougall]

I think the use of beaded decoration both aesthetically and traditionally is indeed related to much deeper religious orientation. While such decoration used occasionally on sword hilts as seen on some hussar sabre hilts (Esterhazy unit of cavalry 1740s and other versions) in Europe, these appear to have been indirectly related to the Rosary bead theme. The use of engraved dots on blades termed "Paternoster' were also related to religious imbuement.

In this case, these beaded edges seem likely to recall the prayer beads used in Muslim Faith termed I believe Misbaha or Tasbih, and while origins are unclear in this use, the concept itself of use of beads may have had Buddhist origin.
In Islam, I believe the beads in varied combination numerically may represent the 99 Names of Allah. In some cases there may be 33 for example, and counted three times each etc.

Clearly the use of beads in decoration often may be used numerically to represent key or auspiciously significant numbers, and are often seen by those uninitiated in that particular context may regard them as aesthetically applied.

In these cases, often beads themselves gained a keenly auspicious value and were indeed used is important occasions and ceremonies is that sense in the manner suggested, which would indeed include weddings etc.

There have been many books and references attending to the use of beads in the symbolism created and used in civilization into prehistory. This is as brief as we might explain the plausible use here.

[ariel]

Elgood’s entire first Indian book was about the connection between weapons and rituals. With multiple religious consultants working with him there is no way a feature that wide-spread would have escaped his investigative clutches.

I am with Jens and mross: just a pretty embellishment. In a way, this is a parallel development of European and Caucasian real and false filigrees.

India is a country filled with mysteries and hidden meanings. Because of that, we may be lured into futile searches for mysteries where there are none.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Bob A]

It's often seemed to me that Indian decorative sensibilities tend toward what some in the West might consider over-embellishment. "Nothing exceeds like excess" might be the motto.

An Afghan rug merchant of my acquaintance tended to refer to this trend as "Kutchi". I don't know if his reference holds any more than simple anecdotal comment, however.

I find it part and parcel of the aesthetics of the region. While it is not universal - not everyone can afford the price of embellishment - it is certainly not uncommon.

[ariel]

Good point!
Al Sabah collection of Indian arms is the ultimabte example of “bling”. Somehow, the word Kutchi reminds me of Kitschy:-)
Elgood writes about sacral motives of overdecorating weapons with immoderate amounts of gold and gems. My guess that behind that pious facade was a garish dollop of showmanship and bragging.

Compared to it, beaded edges of steel handles are an example of modesty.

Persian Shah Ismail sent Sultan Selim a lavishly decorated sword right before the Battle of Chaldiran. One potential motive was to show his superiority (weapons were normally gifted by a sovereign to his servant). Another explanation was a supercilious snark that Turks fight like overjewelled women. Selim disabused Ismail of that notion the very next day:-)

[Mercenary]

Elgood’s entire first Indian book was about the connection between weapons and rituals. With multiple religious consultants working with him there is no way a feature that wide-spread would have escaped his investigative clutches.

I read the Bible. There is nothing about dinosaurs, Antarctica or the Earth’s magnetic field. Although there were consultants ... do not compare with anyone.
Why? Because the Bible was written about something else. Also the book you talked about it is written about something else: about weapons in the ritual (and then only one chapter). Above I'm talking about the ritual in weapons . This is another animal (like the difference between a palm squirrel and a fox).

I am with Jens and mross: just a pretty embellishment.
Just an embellishment. Just India. Just another culture. Just three thousand years. Nothing complicated.

India is a country filled with mysteries and hidden meanings.
A typical point of view of the 17-19th century. Where all western knowledge about the weapons of India and its culture got stuck.

Because of that, we may be lured into futile searches for mysteries where there are none
All cats are grey in the dark

[ariel]

Well, if you are so convinced in the veracity of your hypothesis, continue your quest. You will have to find documentary evidence supporting it. I am sure there are many Sanskrit texts not yet meticulously read for a mention of this minor decorative detail even by professional Indian philologists. When you find it please let us know. I for one will be very interested. Good luck!

And BTW, there are tons of discussion points about ritual in weapons in Elgood’s book.

[Mercenary]

Well, if you are so convinced in the veracity of your hypothesis, continue your quest. You will have to find documentary evidence supporting it. I am sure there are many Sanskrit texts not yet meticulously read for a mention of this minor decorative detail even by professional Indian philologists. When you find it please let us know. I for one will be very interested. Good luck!

Thank you, but let me say. The traditional culture works in different way. Although in the texts there are indications which artistic expressive means should be used in certain cases, but this concerns, as a rule, fundamental forms.
You are absolutely right when you say that such a decoration are just an embellishment. You answer the question "What is it?". In my case I, as it should be in studies in the field of traditional cultures, try to answer the question "Why is it so?"
Yes, it is an embellishment. Beginning from the 15-16th centuries in India almost everything already becoming just an embellishment. But it is still possible to trace its origin, because in traditional culture nothing disappears without a trace, but is reborn and finds new forms of existence.

And BTW, there are tons of discussion points about ritual in weapons in Elgood’s book
I fully agree and really appreciate such books. They allow us to find answers to questions. Questions and answers that are not in these books.

[Jens Nordlunde]

There are other books showing this beaded edges. Like Mortal Beauty, 2015. Page 208. Here it says Central India17th to 18th century.
Robert Elgood: Arms & Armour at the Jaipur Court, 2015. Page 87. Katar late 19th century. Page 128. Tulwar probably Kotah or Bundi 18th or early 19th century. Here Elgood writes: "Katars with a grip with a single knop, the design presumably acquired form the Deccan, were popular in Kotah/Bundi in the mid eighteenth century. Sword hilts with beaded edging can be seen in Kotah/Bundi paintings between 1760-1866 But do not appear in other Rajput miniatures."

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Indian jewellery has examples of this beaded technique in the South Indian Jhumkas ...ear rings styles..

[Jim McDougall]

These are remarkably important views guys, and all brilliantly presented, bringing to mind so many questions as we look further into this topic.

Here I would point out that Robert Elgood's book, "Hindu Arms & Ritual" is a fantastic reference which in my view (and use) just keeps giving. Its content addresses so many angles and deep corners of the field of Indian arms study that each topic that comes up has detail in areas I have not yet scoured. It is a powerful encyclopedic reference that is not meant to be read through in the manner of a novel or textbook.
As the title decribes, it is about Hindu arms AND ritual. While one chapter is titled to ritual, that aspect permeates throughout the book.

The Bible is a reverently held book of Faith, just as many such religious volumes, and not intended as an empirically studied reference.


I think it is generally agreed that not every instance of decoration has deep meaning or symbolism. It is also well understood that in any form of artistic material there will be license, over embellishment, and reflection of other influences in degree.

I agree that in the study of cultures, and in our case their arms, it is not just a matter of 'what is it'......and I heartily and emphatically agree......the WHY IS IT SO is exactly the way we should investigate these kinds of topics.
This was the true magic of Elgood's book, it reached into trying to explain the 'why' in so many aspects of the intricate symbolism in Hindu arms. This same perspective often reached far beyond the Hindu boundaries, as in so many cases the syncretic transcendance of this symbolism and that of other Faiths became known in material culture of each other.


In India, the creation of innovative arms as well as the decoration and over embellishment were commonly the case with weapons as armourers vied for the favor of their patrons. As with investigation of all arms' decoration, each must be looked at for its own merits and evaluated in accord with others with similarities in the same manner. Very true, sometimes it may well be a case of 'bling bling' :) but looking for sources of the influences is the objective.

[Mercenary]

Indian jewellery has examples of this beaded technique in the South Indian Jhumkas ...ear rings styles..
Thank you very much.

[mross]

Well just to make things more interesting, here is a photo of Buster's remake of the King Tut dagger. Note the bead work on the handle.

[ArmsAndAntiques]

It is important to distinguish between granular gold work, an ancient goldsmithing technique that in arms and armor is most prominently found on high quality Saudi saifs of the 19th and 20th century, and the beaded edges found on Indian arms.

The granular decorative element found in gold is un-related, in execution and placement on the arm itself, to the chiseling of iron of beaded borders, except in so far as both are decorative elements.

[ariel]

Decided to waste 5 minutes of my life to plowing the net. I Googled "rapier filigree"

[Nihl]

Wow I didn't expect the discussion to pick up so quickly! Thanks to all for replying/contributing!

Just my 2 cents on the discussion so far, I largely agree with Jim's point about it being in effect a religious-auspicious kind of decoration. From what I recall in both Elgood & the Al Sabah Collection, the topic of one thing or another being an auspicious symbol comes up too many times to count, so it certainly wouldn't surprise me if that is ultimately the case for beaded edges as well. Perhaps someone with more knowledge (and time) than I have could cross-reference the amount of "beads" on these weapons, either in segments or as a whole, and see if they correspond with any important numbers. Without any proof though, I think it would be inappropriate to just call it a day based on any single speculation.

From what I can remember in Elgood (Hindu A&R), there was still mostly a focus on the rituals themselves, the mythology surrounding those rituals, and then some tidbits here and there on how weapons are related to the aforementioned mythology and rituals. This isn't at all meant to downplay how important and useful the text is, but it is meant to say that I can't remember much iconography being explained other than the rather obvious "plants & animals can all be linked to a deity or tale of some sort". That said, I do remember (I think from a later Elgood publication) it being mentioned that beads and bells and so on were tied to the legs of animals in order to drive off evil spirits, something related to Mercenary's first post, so that could be another solid clue. Still though I find it hard to believe that immobile beads or "solid" bells would do as much good as their more lively attached-to-limbs counterparts.

[Jim McDougall]

Ariels search online has given way to perhaps a key word which might give us some perspective to Nihls original question. …...FILAGREE!

Apparently this word, which well describes the 'beaded' edges he is inquiring about in South Indian weapon decoration. It seems that filigree (from Lat. filum=thread; granum=grain...beads to Italian , filgrana). ...was prevalent in Italian, French and Portuguese metalwork from c.1660-late 19th c.

Perhaps this attractive fashion was adopted from these European sources through trade, as well known in India in these times. It is well known of course that European influences in arms was well established in India.

Clearly the use of beadwork has been present widely and through history, but here we are looking into its use in Southern India. Nihl prudently looked toward architectural inspirations as is clearly often the case with Indian hilts, but this particular feature does not seem apparent thus far.

While the inspiration for auspicious themes may often recall beads in various religious and traditional occasions in many parts of India, including of course Southern......perhaps the well known adoption of European influences might be considered. Thus Ariels 'wasted' time finding filigree laden rapiers and other swords maybe not so wasted after all.

[ariel]

Perhaps.
But I am willing to give Indian metalworkers more credit. After all, filigree is such a simple embellishment, that they could have “invented” it on their own. Filigree was used in the Ottoman realm, the Balkans, Caucasus, South Arabian and Western Europe.
There are even more astonishing examples of parallel development. I think I have shown here Central European Bauernwehr ( Cord) and Afghani Khyber ( Selaawa). The former is 15-16 century, the latter is known since the 19th. Their blades are identical, even though neither group knew about the existence of the other.
We just do not need to invent Vedic sacral roots to explain such a trivial detail of embellishment.
And if we decide to go for broke, we just need to Google “ filigree jewelry” : tons of them on the net from all over the world.

[ariel]

... I, as it should be in studies in the field of traditional cultures, try to answer the question "Why is it so?"

Well, any study of anything is an open field to ask a variety of questions and the beauty of research that we do not know beforehand which one is going to be more productive. Questions cannot be wrong or stupid. It is the methodology applied and the final answer that are. Therefore, " as it should be" is just a declarative statement devoid of any academic meaning.

You asked your question believing it to be answerable and important. Well and good. Now it is up to you to employ relevant methodology and prove the correctness and value of your answer.

With best wishes.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I think we lost Nihl somewhere along the road:-).

[Bob A]

It seems to me that one might consider "fashion" in considering the motive forces behind Indian ornamentation.

Tastes change, people emulate those with higher status, and signaling status is hardwired into the primate experience.

Once upon a time, these were part of the English trousse:http://

Not, perhaps, containing any higher significance than status display.

[ariel]

And more European rapiers, all 15-18 centuries. All have filigrees exactly coincident with Indian locations.
And I am still not sure whether Indian examples are of a parallel development or just imitations of foreign examples. If we can find Indian examples firmly dated to before Vasco da Gama, the latter might be excluded.

[Jim McDougall]

Very good points Ariel, one on the matter of methodology in finding support for theories, however I think we all have different ideas and concepts in how we go about it. I know that my own methods don't necessarily coincide with those of others nor follow any precise empirical dictum faithfully.

Well noted as well in that this filigree (beaded) decoration does not need to be firmly associated with any particular Vedic belief or tradition, and may have developed independently within the Indian subcontinent. To determine whether its development was of Indian origin rather than outside influences, finding exemplars pre European contact would be compelling.

However, using this concept may not offer evidence toward conclusion as outside factors such as the 'wild card' of the ever present and often ambiguous element of trade, whether direct or networked, might have influenced such design.

I think this is why Nihl was searching through early architecture, particularly temples and other iconography to discover such pre European presence.

As Bob has well noted, fashion was I think a key factor also, and while this type of decoration is indeed very simple, it is distinct enough to be placed with design in mind and more so than casually. In the manner of how influenced and impressed the Indians were by European arts, that does elevate this design to a status oriented styling.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is interesting to see designs unrelated to Indian work and more than 3000 years of Hinduism in that region must be considered first. parallel developments in unrelated tribal groups are not to be confused with linked developments...
I look to two or three areas where designs could drift from one artisan subject to another... and have suggested the field of jewellery..where Hindu style goes back thousands of years... the other area must be in weapons since that is the focus of the thread. the beaded edge is certainly no stranger to Omani weapons in the Omani Khanjar where it is often presented.
back to weapons and please see http://mandarinmansion.com/large-indian-sword-fine-damascus-blade for a beaded hilt which surely echos the threads aim ...

See also a pair of Omani ankle bangles with beaded edges delineating and defining the intended pattern.

[Jim McDougall]

It is interesting to see designs unrelated to Indian work and more than 3000 years of Hinduism in that region must be considered first. parallel developments in unrelated tribal groups are not to be confused with linked developments...
I look to two or three areas where designs could drift from one artisan subject to another... and have suggested the field of jewellery..where Hindu style goes back thousands of years... the other area must be in weapons since that is the focus of the thread. the beaded edge is certainly no stranger to Omani weapons in the Omani Khanjar where it is often presented.
back to weapons and please see http://mandarinmansion.com/large-indian-sword-fine-damascus-blade for a beaded hilt which surely echos the threads aim ...

See also a pair of Omani ankle bangles with beaded edges delineating and defining the intended pattern.


Excellent!! Here we have even Omani use of the decoration, and we know there was profound trade through the Red Sea and India via Arab traders. In reading more on beaded decoration, it seems of course that this kind of decoration extends far into prehistory, so it would be hard to confine its origins and use to any one area or cultural sphere.

I think the key objective here is to try to discover if any particular symbolism could be attributed to use of beaded decoration in South India. While it would be extremely unlikely to place such subjective value with confidence, looking into the possibilities is intriguing in better understanding of the culture(s) involved.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Jim, are you sure it was only due to Arabian trade?

[Jim McDougall]

Jim, are you sure it was only due to Arabian trade?


No, surely there were others, but I think of the trade between India's western coasts and the Muscat traders in terms of possible shared influences in decoration as described in Ibrahiims Omani items. It does seem that these trade networks far predated the periods we are discussing, and those details I am not sure of at this point without further research.

[ariel]

One can google British filigree, Czech, Ukrainian, Moroccan, Norwegian, Dutch, Japanese, Brazilian etc, etc. My first two examples in post #20 are Ottoman. It was and is everywhere. Everybody either “invented” or borrowed it. One would have hard time trying to prove primacy of South India.

[Jim McDougall]

One can google British filigree, Czech, Ukrainian, Moroccan, Norwegian, Dutch, Japanese, Brazilian etc, etc. My first two examples in post #20 are Ottoman. It was and is everywhere. Everybody either “invented” or borrowed it. One would have hard time trying to prove primacy of South India.

I think actually what we are trying determine, as asked in the OP, is if there was any particular significance, representation, symbolism, auspicious connotation or any such connection to examples from South India. It seems somehow we have lost track of that with comparisons elsewhere.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Maybe the beaded edges were auspicious at a certain time and place, and went out of fashion, but was copied at some other place and time as decoration - only.

[Jim McDougall]

Maybe the beaded edges were auspicious at a certain time and place, and went out of fashion, but was copied at some other place and time as decoration - only.

That is an excellent suggestion Jens! and actually quite likely in some cases. I think that in examining instances of this type decoration there is no broad axiom which can be used, and each must be considered by its own merits.
I had hoped to find more detail on beading or filigree in Pant (1980), but the references to filigree were just descriptive without detail.

It was interesting however that some of the earlier Nair 'temple swords' had filigree in the decorative detail. These swords of Siviganga in Tamil Nadu were apparently made to recall earlier fighting swords but became votive and religiously used ceremonial swords by the 17th century.
As these swords were produced specifically for such traditional use perhaps the filgree elements did have auspicious tone in these cases.

[Nihl]

Hi all, sorry I can't post as often, I just have some things going on in my personal life currently. Hope you all can understand. :)

Addressing an earlier bit brought up by Jim, I was mostly concerned with it being related to architecture because, as I detailed in my OP, that was the only explanation I heard about online. I think that was a wild goose chase though.

Good job looking at the international filigree! I very much agree that we would have to find a firm date for when most beaded hilts came up though, in order to better determine when exactly it came in to fashion and whether it might be due to European influence. Personally I find the connection with rapiers to be rather hard to believe. Sure they're pretty looking, but I think if Indians truly wanted to copy rapier, they would do more than just copy the beaded aesthetic that occasionally appeared on them. Just my opinion though.

Once again though I find myself agreeing with Jim about it possibly evolving more naturally, passed down from earlier designs. Does anyone have any examples of this early Indian filigree? I can't say I've ever actually heard about there being any kind of fine decoration on these swords, outside of their pure sculptural value as objects.

[ariel]

Actually, Indians did copy European rapiers: recall Firangi and D- guards. They also valued European blades and guards, and combined them with their native sword parts. Arnachellum made a fortune making slightly mutated British hunting knives. And I am not even touching Chinese-inspired decorations and jade handles, Persian khahjars, Georgian kindjal blades, Ottoman yataghan blades, Turkish Palas, etc.

Oriental armorers followed fashions with abandon, and borrowed foreign ideas left and right, similar to their European colleagues adopting Oriental ideas. Eventually, militaries all over the world adopted virtually identical bladed weapons.

[Jim McDougall]

Nihl, no need to apologize, trust me I think most of us are with you, and the resounding drama of every day life takes precedence!
I like very much that you posed a most intriguing query here, and you also included your established research and line of thinking toward it. This set a valuable benchmark for discussion, which has for the most part developed very well.

As has been well addressed by Robert Elgood, the presence of architectural designs is well established in many Indian weapons and their decoration, as they have become religiously oriented in themselves. In this the designs and decoration often reflect temples, iconography and the naturally religious themes.


With this being the case, I think your effort to determine possible symbolism in this distinct style of decoration is well placed. The observations on similar use in other contexts and in other cultural spheres were I think simply to reflect the scope of this type decoration in considering outside influences.


As has been noted, the European influence is certainly feasible, and indeed highly effected Indian culture in many aspects of material culture. It is well known that European art, much of it in grimoires and herbals, became firmly emplaced in much Mughal art and design. With weapons, while trade blades became a commercial entity post contact, the influence of hilt designs, foremost that of the 'basket hilt' added to the khanda was profoundly notable.

With these khanda, termed 'Hindu basket hilt' (and further 'firangi' with foreign blade) some even had rapier blades, despite the fact that fencing and such European sword play had nothing to do with Indian techniques.


The influences of art, philosophy, religion etc. transcend any sort of boundaries, and with the ever present conditions of trade, colonialism and cultural expansion, are virtually inevitable.


Tradition and commemoration are typically what carries forth the use of earlier designs, style and such features from earlier periods within a particular culture. This is one of the great difficulties in assessing ethnographic arms in that the same forms have remained in use for centuries and often must be examined for highly nuanced and subtle clues in their character. That is what is so compelling here with this very valid query, and it is great to see the ideas and approaches at work.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Indian beadwork is well recorded in Indian jewellery going back to early Hindu beginnings and I have shown similar decorative style in Arms. what I can now add to the discussion are examples in Armour(A Vambrace circa mid 1600) and artwork (to help define the use of beads in art) beadwork therefor seems to have found a link to jewellery and traditional artwork so that the leap from there to arms and armour would seem a normal move involving simple pattern styles and accepted practice. Architecture is not so obvious (if it exists at all) perhaps because of the scale of the objects and the practicality of using beadwork on buildings simply isn't logical ..beadwork is by nature almost miniscule whereas buildings are in gigantic scale.
My Reference is India 1300 to 1900 A Met Museum Publication.

[Jens Nordlunde]

The Japamala or Mala is a praying string of beans used by the Hindus, Buddhiists, the Jains and some of the Sikhs.
Mostly there are 108 beans but other numbers can also be seen. The number of 108 is important as it can be devided with 9, and 9 is an important number.
For the rest of the explanation you can Google:-).

[Jim McDougall]

Very good point Ibrahiim about use of beaded edges on architecture as its size is of course more conducive to larger decorative components.
Interesting note Jens on the Hindu prayer beads also used in these other faiths. It does seem that beads have religious connotation in most Faiths and may lend to ornamentation in many forms of material culture.

[Nihl]

Oh yes good job Ibrahiim on the link with jewelry and armor. Iirc there is an image of a similar vambrace in Elgood's Hindu A&R. Unfortunately I do not have the book with me currently so I am unable to reference exactly where it is. I did take a number of pictures of different figures from the book (the vambrace not being one of them), and in referencing those I was able to find a number of old swords with beaded edges on their hilts that were all dated to the 16th and 17th centuries.

While not to say that this counts as conclusive evidence, in doing a quick google image search of antique Indian jewelry there are numerous examples of pieces with beaded elements - borders and outlines and such. While of course this isn't exactly surprising as rows of precious stones or gilded spheres or what have you all look quite impressive, I think it does provide a bit more evidence towards the idea of it being a naturally evolving aesthetic. This design does also parallel the beaded edges on arms and armor, as both seem to only really be used to provide a border around the outside of the object.

As a side note, the lens that I am personally trying to solve this through is indeed one where these beads are a native invention of sorts and not one copied from foreign examples. Though I certainly don't doubt that there could be some European or other outside influence to it, it just seems to me that such a persistent reoccurring design has to has some sort of native meaning or origin point, even if it is just to make stuff look prettier.

Since I kinda brought it up, I'll look into the correlation between holy numbers and the numbers of "beads" on these objects in my own time, but I think for now establishing when exactly this aesthetic moved onto arms and armor (i.e. finding the earliest dated examples of it) would be the next best thing to do. Currently the earliest examples on swords all seem to date to the 17th century, and only a couple have been dated to the 16th century from what I've seen.

Included are some of the more obvious examples of beaded edges/borders/whatever on Indian jewelry (admittedly not all them are antiques though).

[Mercenary]

it just seems to me that such a persistent reoccurring design has to has some sort of native meaning or origin point, even if it is just to make stuff look prettier.


Very fair point.

[Mercenary]

This design does also parallel the beaded edges on arms and armor, as both seem to only really be used to provide a border around the outside of the object.


In architecture, there are also borders around the outside of the object. Is similar decoration used in Indian architecture?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In beads there is some aspect possibly linked to metalwork and thus designs in arms and armour. I think some care should be taken when looking at the beads above as they are possibly not all the same style of decoration and could be either small miri bota (leaf pattern) or small water mellon seed designs not the sort of border bead we are looking for... however, this is all good research as it allows members to focus on the various techniques involved. I think there is a distinction however between beadwork and bead impression in art and beadwork attached to textiles as well as bead work in metalwork… In Western India for example beadwork on textiles didn't arrive until the late 19th C according to the book attached below; The front cover has a band of beaded textile running above the title but this is far too late for our subject thus textiles may be sidelined in this respect.

Clearly we need to be on an earlier decorative form which Hindu jewellery does seem to indicate... It carries a much older ticket after all at about 4000 years.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hindu jewellery… As a decorative form this specialization could well be linked in the distant past to metalworking in Arms and Armour. Here is a book with many examples in Hindu Jewellery which rather suggests a link.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The next reference is an excellent pocket book on the Mughal Empire and rather confirms that architecture is not the medium in which this beaded border form is obvious perhaps because of my earlier thought on the difficulty of size … we are looking at Taj Mahal and Red Fort sized mega buildings and Temples and Mausoleums etc.

[Mercenary]

Hindu jewellery… As a decorative form this specialization could well be linked in the distant past to metalworking in Arms and Armour. Here is a book with many examples in Hindu Jewellery which rather suggests a link.
Very good research. Million thanks.

[Mercenary]

... and rather confirms that architecture is not the medium in which this beaded border form is obvious perhaps ...

Absolutely right again.
Architectural forms are closely associated with either Buddhism or official Hinduism (it is clear that the Mughal architecture should be excluded from consideration). Our beads have another origin.

[ariel]

If you really want to go into architectural details, Google " crenellated wall india" ( couple of examples below)

Just pay attention: some images in this series are from Italy, West Africa, Jerusalem, France, Poland etc etc. Crenellation is one of the most popular architectural designs, originally intended for purely military purposes ( see three last images with very early European castle wall, predating Indian fancier examples ), but later becoming a decoration.

Personally, I doubt there is any symbolic or sacral connection between different crenellations ( architecture on the one hand vs. jewelry, weapons etc.).

And, re. your assertion that Mughal architecture should not be counted, the upper right image, with the prettiest onion-like crenellations, the closest to the decorative ones on the handles and jewelry, is a part of Taj Mahal, the ultimate Mughal architectural monument.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Interesting additions Ariel and in particular the domes over what appear to be stone Chhatri on top of a Mausoleum or Palace .. Not quite the beaded dot we are looking at in the closer companion to those on arms and armour but an interesting study all the same. I was quite surprised at the crenellations which are taller than a man … and which appear as arches in the likeness to Islamic archways...which I think were amalgamated with Hindu arches by the Mughals.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Interesting additions Ariel and in particular the domes over what appear to be stone Chhatri on top of a Mausoleum or Palace .. Not quite the beaded dot we are looking at in the closer companion to those on arms and armour but an interesting study all the same. I was quite surprised at the crenellations which are taller than a man … and which appear as arches in the likeness to Islamic archways...which I think were amalgamated with Hindu arches by the Mughals.

In fact from http://islamicarch.blogspot.com/~ Quote."Arches were not used in India before Islamic times where trabeate construction was the main method of roofing an area. However, arches were regarded as essential by the first Muslim rulers who built arched screens in front of trabeate structures such as the Quwwat al-Islam Mosque in Delhi. Even the screens of the earliest Indian mosques were not composed of true arches but were corbelled structures made to look like arches. So this is purely and souley Islamic architecture at it’s best!" Unquote.

[ariel]

I do not think these are Ch'hatris: just garden variety arches, another architectural detail hailing back at least to Roman times.
The last image is Damascus Gate in the wall of Old City, Jerusalem, built by Suleiman the Magnificient, 100+ years before Taj Mahal. Look at its crenellations.
And you are correct: Mughal borrowed from Hindu architecture the same way as other things. Not for nothing they were "Indo-Persian".

[Jim McDougall]

I think the architectural connections to edged weapon hilts in Hindu instances are indeed heavily connected, as well explained through many examples in Robert Elgood's "Hindu Arms & Ritual" (2004) and often discussed here over the years. Naturally the Hindu and Buddhist Faiths were in many circumstances syncretically aligned in degree, and the material culture often carried influences of their traditions and symbolism.

The Mughal arts, while deeply inspired by Persian verse and styles also seem to have often adopted of course elements of the Hindu and Buddhist artistic manner in degree. As noted, while Mughal architecture in India was certainly present , it does not seem necessarily prevalent in these kinds of decoration.

It does seem however that in the tulwar hilt, the flueret terminals of Deccani forms seem to reflect Muslim character, as do the distinctive langet style which have been suggested to resemble architectural elements such as the Mighrab. In other instances Muslim hilts pommels are sometimes believed to reflect the domes of Minarets.


While not necessarily relevent here of course, these suggestions and examples of Muslim architectural presence in hilts are simply noted as references in consideration. As Ibrahiim and Mercenary have both noted, Muslim/Mughal architecture I agree does not seem to be our influence source here.


Emphatically, the beads do seem to come from influences in other material culture and great examples shown here in textiles and especially jewellery.
I think one of the key references Jens has long used in the study of hilt designs and decoration is one on Indian jewellery (I cannot think of the title).

Jewellers have long been the artisans creating hilt decoration, regardless of culture and this has been the case into recent and modern times. They are the metalworkers skilled in the often flamboyant and detailed designs and application of precious stones etc. as well as inscribing, engraving and precious metal inlay.

It stands to reason that jewellery would provide influences and inspiration for many forms of decoration on hilts, the beading notwithstanding. While of course some sort of 'beading' might be found architecturally, I would think its influence subordinate to that of jewellery in this case.


On that note, personally I don't think of beading and crenellation in the same context in that crenellation is distinctly architectural, specifically in fortification design (in purpose) but often followed otherwise in design but in other architecture. It would not be used in the delicate manner of beading in my opinion.

[ariel]

Agree. Architecture is a dead end in the search for the origin of beading: no connection to jewelry in all its applications.


We are left with two possibilities:
1. Beading was just a " prettyfying" design, devoid of any deep significance.
2. Beading has deep sacral meaning. Proponents of this theory should find primary sources supporting this hypothesis.

[Ren Ren]

Absolutely right again.
Architectural forms are closely associated with either Buddhism... Our beads have another origin.
Sino-Tibetan style of Buddhist bronze sculpture. Beginning of the 15th century.

[mross]

Agree. Architecture is a dead end in the search for the origin of beading: no connection to jewelry in all its applications.


We are left with two possibilities:
1. Beading was just a " prettyfying" design, devoid of any deep significance.
2. Beading has deep sacral meaning. Proponents of this theory should find primary sources supporting this hypothesis.

I'm going with #1. Simplest reason is usually the best.

[Ren Ren]

Courtesy of James McElhinney & Peter Dekker.
Tibetan, Chinese and Japanese under strong Tibetan influence.

[ariel]

Yes, there are beadings there.
But the question we are addressing here is not their existence ( this is beyond any argument), but their sacral meaning or absence thereof.

[mross]

Yes, there are beadings there.
But the question we are addressing here is not their existence ( this is beyond any argument), but their sacral meaning or absence thereof.

There is information that can be inferred from both these statements. The fact that beading is so widespread( beyond any argument; also; beads in all the great pictures in this thread) sort of points to a decorative, embellishment secular factor.

[Mercenary]

Sino-Tibetan style of Buddhist bronze sculpture. Beginning of the 15th century.
In India Buddhism has absorbed less archaic beliefs than Hinduism. Beautiful sculpture, but what else?

[Mercenary]

Yes, there are beadings there.
But the question we are addressing here is not their existence ( this is beyond any argument), but their sacral meaning or absence thereof.
My reverence

[Mercenary]

I'm going with #1. Simplest reason is usually the best.

The simplest reason for whom? For an atheist of the 21th century?

[Jim McDougall]

Actually 'Occams Razor' typically does prevail in most investigative cases, but not all of course. It does remarkably depend on the character and values of the investigation, and in reality in these kinds of cases it is difficult to classify subjective meanings to a particular decoration or symbol.

It becomes very much a 'Rorschach' test in a sense as different ideas will be the perceptions of different people. I think here we are seeking any possible or likely value or tradition which might apply to beaded decoration in South India.

I don't think that such views are in any way irreverent as expressed, and what is meant is that as often expressed, often decoration is applied aesthetically and perhaps may recall certain reverent or auspicious features. I think this is actually a respectful expression of a highly regarded element or form intended to enhance.

[Ren Ren]

In India Buddhism has absorbed less archaic beliefs than Hinduism. Beautiful sculpture, but what else?
Sculpture of the early 15th century, in accordance with the canons and rules of the 10th century. At a minimum, we can put aside talk about European influence.
The number of channels of Tibetan influence on the weapon style of China and Japan was very small. First of all, it is Tibetan Buddhism and its religious meaning.

[ariel]

In India Buddhism has absorbed less archaic beliefs than Hinduism. Beautiful sculpture, but what else?

Naturally. Hinduism is much older religion.

And, indeed.... what else?

[Mercenary]

We are all talking about the same thing, but from different points of view. It is clear that these beads are just embellishment (on weapons of 16-19th century, which we know and study). In ancient time, as I believe, real small bells could be attached to weapons, as it is sometimes found on weapons for Indian fests and performances. But we must understand that aesthetic perception is not taken from nowhere. If generations of Indian artists (from childhood to old age) had seen the three-beam star of Mercedes-Benz at all holidays and events around, it would find expression in art sooner or later.

Especially if this star had a sacral and ritual significance :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Although I am still waiting for the key picture in this regard to upload>>>the raised dot style border>>>>>>> I can assure you that I have the definitive artefact in the bag! A tile from the MASOUD III PALACE in GAZNI Afghanistan in precisely this style> This was found to be pre Islamic Iranian ...the building was occupied up to 1221 but sacked by the Mongolians. The publication containing the item is shown below and is a British Museum publication. :shrug:

[Mercenary]

Sculpture of the early 15th century, in accordance with the canons and rules of the 10th century. At a minimum, we can put aside talk about European influence.


Take your time, colleague. We will definitely hear about Alexander the Great.

... already almost... As I can see.

[Mercenary]

Naturally. Hinduism is much older religion.

And, indeed.... what else?

the differences in patterns of visual art

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THAT TILE . Here it is …This passage makes specific reference to these dotted/beaded border tiles as being pre Islamic Iranian and portraying mythical beasts with this very specific decoration with raised dots / bead style... in words to that effect... and being so early as to show promise in my view across the regions with perhaps transmission into the Indian Ocean areas as well as on Pilgrimages to Mecca? and into India.. Technical transfer of patterns took place as war trade and travel in the form of Pilgrimages and exploration was common as well as the bounty of winner takes all in wars... This also included the requisitioning of artisans who would frequently be transferred to the winning sides into schools of excellence royal court workshops and other centres of workmanship as a natural too ing and fro ing of expertise.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Taking the jewellery making situation in tandem with the revelations on ceramics here are a few pictures showing Hindu work; clearly an ancient skill and the picture of the workers in India from a sketch of a Company workshop (EIC?) in 1850 and illustrating the handed down time proven techniques obviously going back many centuries along with the ancient dies illustrated also showing the beaded edge on several of the exhibits. The dotted border arm jewellery showing the very old Hindu Deity indicates an ancient form and where that style may have easily transferred to weapons arms and armour making as previously shown at #1 etc... coupled with the respect a beaded border had already been given in pre Islamic Iranian ceramics.. :shrug:

[Ren Ren]

Take your time, colleague. We will definitely hear about Alexander the Great.
You know that I am ready for this :)

[Jim McDougall]

You know that I am ready for this :)


Me too! Always ready to learn :) While it is unlikely to broadly assign the origin of the beaded. raised dot motif to any one source, it is interesting to see the uses and presence of it in various cultural and religious contexts through history.

[mross]

Me too! Always ready to learn :) While it is unlikely to broadly assign the origin of the beaded. raised dot motif to any one source, it is interesting to see the uses and presence of it in various cultural and religious contexts through history.

Not to hijack the thread, thou this may. I think it has been firmly established that the bead "embellishment" occurs across time and and culture. In America the Native Americans have a very long history of bead-work. I think a much more interesting question is; Why the bead?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

At #47 the illustrated publication rattles on at great lengths about the bead and its attachment to American Indian History not to mention the value as a trade item... Trade beads travelled the globe in this role. It is reasonable to assume the raised dot or to give it the correct term dome was associated with beads thus the term beaded border... weaving its way across jewellery, arms n armour and ceramics. Doming is in fact the name of the technique for producing this beaded effect in Jewellery making across the Hindu spectrum.

[ariel]

" Why the bead?"

I think because it all started with necklaces. We see them in virtually every archeological excavation and in every contemporary primitive culture : shell necklaces, nut necklaces, pebble necklaces, teeth necklaces... Europeans carried necklace beads to every corner of the Earth they traveled to as a "fair" exchange currency for gold, gems, spices, hides etc.
More technologically advanced non-European societies manufactured their own beads, initially likely for the same necklaces, then for prayer beads ( known in Greece since 17 century B.C.E.) and then it became just such a common prettyfying element, that it was used for many types of jewelry ( including sophisticated filigree) and any other object, including weapons.

PS. I missed Ibrahiim's post and agree with him completely. Again, I do not think we are talking about some highfalutin' sacral origins, just a practical approach at adorning our females :-)

Happy wife, - happy life.

[mross]

At #47 the illustrated publication rattles on at great lengths about the bead and its attachment to American Indian History not to mention the value as a trade item... Trade beads travelled the globe in this role. It is reasonable to assume the raised dot or to give it the correct term dome was associated with beads thus the term beaded border... weaving its way across jewellery, arms n armour and ceramics. Doming is in fact the name of the technique for producing this beaded effect in Jewellery making across the Hindu spectrum.

Yes, but; Why beads? What is the significance of their use as trade, decoration, in some cases money? If we answer this we may be able to home in on the original question.

[Nihl]

Popping in again to give my 2 cents on what's being talked about.
Personally, I'm rather satisfied with the link to old decorative forms. As uninteresting as it may be, I concede that it does make the most sense. That said, I must raise the question as to what these beads or more broadly what necklaces or similarly decorated accessories meant in old Indian culture. A purely decorative motif is one thing, but when it's applied to humans all the time one (or at least I) can't help but think at some point it was given some sort of meaning. Another question - if the beaded edge (in A&A) is such a decorative motif, why is it not seen more frequently in status pieces (the belongings of royalty and so forth) and why are these beads not separately or distinctly decorated? My memory may be failing me on the former point, so feel free to post "museum quality" examples of beaded hilts and prove me wrong, but I can't recall the last time I saw a beaded hilt with any real fancy decoration. From what I can recall most extent hilts are either undecorated metal or covered in unbroken sheets of precious metal, instead of say, being decorated with koftgari in a manner separate from the rest of the hilt (gold covered beads but silver hilt, for example) or having actual jewels inlaid in the beads. Again, maybe there are some examples out there, but I at least can't remember seeing any. I guess I'm actually not fully satisfied with the beads being decorative just yet ;)

Also don't want to distract from the latest topic of "why beads?", but I personally have nothing to add to that.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have to point out that none of the references are actually beads. They are domes ...Doming is a jewellery metalworking technique where half round shapes are produced in a cube shaped brass former so these decorative shapes although possibly thought of as beads are not... The Ceramic tile pre Islamic Iranian and the weapons and the jewellery all illustrate this technique. Heres a gold addition from Hindu Jewellery making ...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A South India weapon with the raised dot form under the handguard at the throat...

[Nihl]

Did some looking, found an example from the 16th century of an Indian dagger with what looks like beading on the inside of a vegetal motif. Might just have been used to give the plants texture...