View Full Version : How much heat can Rhino Horn handle?
Drabant1701
29th December 2018, 02:53 PM
I need to re-attach a silver crossguard on a shamshir. I have decided that i want to solder it to the grip straps. I have seen it done that way on other similar swords. Fell free to speak up if you think that there is a better way.
A professional golsmith that I talked to said, no problem he can do that. But, he also asked how much heat the horn can handle, since the solder will reach 800 degree celsius. I have no idea, anyone that knows or can point me to a source that has that information? Also, im like 90%, sure its rhino horn, but could you look at the pictures and confirm?
Many thanks for your time.
Kurt
29th December 2018, 04:03 PM
Was not soldered to the cross guard with any original
ariel
29th December 2018, 04:10 PM
Rhino horn is a lump of congealed hair. Doubt it will not be damaged.
Why wouldn't you try
https://www.walmart.com/ip/6X-DEVCON-PLASTIC-STEEL-EPOXY-0-84-FL-OZ-SYRINGE-CARDED-25-ML/111524404
or something from the family, such as
https://www.walmart.com/ip/10240-Plastic-Steel-5-minutes-Putty-SF-1-lb-Kit-Size-1-lb-By-Devcon/700864821
It is used in metal industry, holds like nothing else.
Oliver Pinchot
29th December 2018, 04:21 PM
You will ruin that horn if a jeweler puts heat to it
Drabant1701
29th December 2018, 04:29 PM
Thanks for your replies! Thats why I ask first :D I will look into other methods, that plastic steel looks promising.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
29th December 2018, 05:31 PM
The steel stuff will be safer... Heat will melt it like butter... It is Rhino :shrug:
Battara
29th December 2018, 06:34 PM
You can NEVER silver solder onto horn or any organic matter. Even soft solder is too hot (and is much lower in temperature).
No offense, but your jeweler friend is nuts! (I too make jewelry and so lots of silver soldering).
ariel
29th December 2018, 07:35 PM
Jose,
Aren’t you too harsh on the jeweler?
He said he could solder it, but wanted to know first whether horn will survive it.
IMHO, he was perfect.
roanoa
29th December 2018, 11:39 PM
OK. The hilt is rhino. Heat will not MELT it, just BURN IT. I have broken bits and pieces of rhino horn from messed up Ethiopian swords, so I decided to try. If you try to burn one of your own fingernail (after you clip it.....) you will get the same result. It chars more than burns. You can scrape off the charred surface and re-polish it. This is not what one wants to do to a good piece of rhino horn. A good epoxy will do a better job. By the way, there are epoxies designed for jewellery making. Cheers, Ron
Battara
30th December 2018, 01:37 AM
Jose,
Aren’t you too harsh on the jeweler?
He said he could solder it, but wanted to know first whether horn will survive it.
IMHO, he was perfect.
Any horn will burn. If he knows nothing at all about horn, then I guess that might be forgivable. But that would also mean that he was somewhat narrow in his scope of experience. At that type of heat, anything organic would burn.
I do apologize if I came across caustic.
Tim Simmons
30th December 2018, 06:25 AM
You could do it using a puk welding machine.. I have one ideal for this type of job. It is welding through 10x optics with a needle electrode. Expensive kit and a steep learning curve. An even better way is laser welding but I do not have a laser welding unit and your job might not fit in the laser unit. I live in the UK. I would find a jeweller or silversmith in your area that is using a puk welding unit near you should be straight forward. I better pic would help.
https://www.bettsmetalsales.com/jewellery-tools/lampert-puk-welding/puk
Drabant1701
30th December 2018, 09:52 AM
You could do it using a puk welding machine.. I have one ideal for this type of job. It is welding through 10x optics with a needle electrode. Expensive kit and a steep learning curve. An even better way is laser welding but I do not have a laser welding unit and your job might not fit in the laser unit. I live in the UK. I would find a jeweller or silversmith in your area that is using a puk welding unit near you should be straight forward. I better pic would help.
Again, thank you for taking the time to help me with this. The Jeweller I spoke to did mention a laser welding machine when i asked him about another restoration that I want help with, but he said that laser welding equipment is expensive. He did know a good jeweller in Stockholm that had one and could help me with that one. Im going down to Stockholm in the spring, so I might let him weld this one to.
I will have to have a good think about this one. That plastic steel is a good option to, but I liked the idea of soldering since it can be un-done, as you all know epoxys are not easy to remove once hardened.
Victrix
30th December 2018, 10:19 AM
Ideally I guess you would want to restore the item using historically correct methods if possible? I think I have read posts here about using traditional resins to re-attach grips etc.
You may want to check out Paraloid B-72 (http://www.conservation-resources.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=600) which is supposedly used by professionals at museums to restore antiques. It’s favoured as it’s less visible, degrades less, and is supposedly reversible. I have found it more difficult than expected to work with myself. I would try buying the glue tube version rather than the pellets.
Tim Simmons
30th December 2018, 10:23 AM
Yes worth doing properly. Done well would not look any different to. silver soldering. Someone in Stockholm will have either a PUK weld or Laser unit. They will probably want a low 3 figure sum for this rather precious job.
Battara
31st December 2018, 05:47 AM
This would definitely be a better option.
Ian
31st December 2018, 06:15 AM
Guys:
Just a reminder. If you are conducting transactions please do so offline using PM or email. We try to keep this forum free of commerce.
Ian.
Kmaddock
31st December 2018, 09:23 AM
Hi
I know nothing about laser welding having never looked at it before this morning when I watched a you tube video or two
Will it not leave a bead of weld at the join of the 2 metals which will look wrong
And from my experience your eye will be drawn to the repair every time you pick up the item
The proper way would be to remove the handles and solder on the inside as it was originally made as far as I know but I might be incorrect on the manafacturing process , would this be possible
It looks to be a lovely sword and you are a brave man to do working on it
Can the cross guard be wedged in place with spacers of balsa, this will be totally reversible and as the sword is now a decorative item the repair will not detract
With this welding job you have one go at it and the people doing the job are not expert at the repair job, quiet a scary situation
Regards
Ken
Tim Simmons
31st December 2018, 07:51 PM
Ken, this would only be done by experienced crafts people. This job would be on the micro scale even if you had to feed in silver wire to fill large gaps it would not look like the weld on an international oil fed pipe.
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