Talismanic Devices and Imbuements on Islamic Arms

[Jim McDougall]

In two recent threads, one on Shamshir markings and the other on Arab spears, certain elements of markings found on them were interesting as they suggested talismanic properties which would be an interesting topic for discussion. In the spears case, there was a lozenge design which seems to have been widely used in such manner, and served as an apotropaic against the evil eye.

On the shamshir, the usual dual cartouches, the upper an ogival spheroid typically with ruler of the time or other information or other exhortations , while the lower typically had the makers name and date....are seen.
However to the left and above is a square with abjad letters in a grid, and known as a 'Beduh' square. These talismanic devices are often regarded as 'magic squares' and represent various number combinations which invoke the appropriate properties required.

I would like to look into these 'Beduh' squares further here, and determine more on how they are typically intended on sword blades; how widely were they used (if outside the Arab world and Mughal India) and examples of blades bearing them.

I would also like to learn more on the lozenge device and its significance in motif and designs on weapons in the Arab world.

Attached is the blade of the shamshir posted by William Fox with the typical cartouche configuration and the 'Beduh' square upper left. I am curious about the grid of only four squares, it seems most have nine.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello Jim, In dealing with the Buduh magic square it seems the Arabs or Indians worked in this medium and also in numbers whereas the Chinese who invented the magic square only used numbers. It appears that a sort of techno bounce back occurred where the essence of the numerical system was exported in some cases incorrectly numbered but the Arab mathematicians figured it out and sent back corrections so to speak... In addition they invented a letter equivalent structure the Chinese never had.

Please See;
http://www.chinesehsc.org/downloads/cammann/camman_the_evolution_of_magic_squares_in_china.pdf

The above reference was written by a specialist American master; Professor Camman, and is very much worth reading as he refers to the Arab influence to and from China through trade via India and direct . In consequence the system was given by the Arabs to the Europeans via Spain thus we have pollination of magic squares right across the known world at the time..

http://hypernumber.blogspot.com/2015/01/buduh-magic-square-in-islamic.html describes an interesting narrative and in the final paragraph offers the potential name of an Arab philosopher who may have been one of the people to give this technology to the Europeans.

I placed a Biography at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5753&highlight=anthropologically of the author to the paper above on the Chinese link and the thread also has interesting examples of other magic inscriptions / marks.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Reading my own references again I note that the Buduh square is the one with the letters and is logically named Buduh as per the detail at Reference below according to the letters inscribed in the corners of the Buduh square.

http://hypernumber.blogspot.com/201...in-islamic.html


The numbers were written in the abjad letter-numerals, and because the four corners of this square contained the letters ba', dal, waw [or u], and ha', this particular square became known as the buduh square.


Note; (The Abjad numerals are a decimal numeral system in which the 28 letters of the Arabic alphabet are assigned numerical values.) but for finer detail please look up abjad letter-numerals on the web.

[Oliver Pinchot]

The inscriptions read as follows:

Upper cartouche: Abbas, Servant of the Ruler of the Nation

This is a very typical formula and is found on the preponderance of such blades.


Lower cartouche: Work of Zaman Isfahani


A known, but not common, maker. Zaman of Isfahan is often referred to as the "son of Assad Allah" but that, like most of the lore, should be taken as praise, rather than representing a literal relationship.


The lateral inscription: Victory from Allah and conquest nigh!

This is a popular Islamic phrase often found on weapons.

An above average blade, congratulations to its owner.

[Edster]

Great topic, Jim.

I could add what Julie Anderson describes as a waqf 3X3 Magic Number block and Koranic text on an elaborate Ali Dinar kaskara sword in her article available on the EAA Geographical Index.

Snakes have talismanic qualities including stealth and quickness as shown on one of Reed's sketches as well as examples submitted by EAA members.

Silver dress on swords are supposed to protect users from knife attack, and copper wire and inlays will work to a lesser extent.

The fly, cross & orb, and rampant cat, Solingen blade makers marks have been given qualities of manliness and bravery by Kassala bladesmiths.

These examples are from only Sudanese kaskara motifs within the Islamic context. No doubt other observers will other symbolic meanings including the cross motifs in Christian contexts that call on Higher Powers for protection and success in battle.

Regards,
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Ed! and great input on the Sudanese aspects of the talismanic elements in the motif on these swords. The folk religion and superstitions are often melded together with Islamic invocations etc. just as is the case across North African regions.
In the Berber regions such as with the flyssa in Kabyle and adjacent areas, the geometric designs in the Byzantine style motifs are thought to represent the fibula or as described 'Hand of Fatima' apotropaic against the evil eye.


Good notes on these aspects of the metals used in the dress on these swords as well. Thank you!

[Jim McDougall]

The inscriptions read as follows:

Upper cartouche: Abbas, Servant of the Ruler of the Nation

This is a very typical formula and is found on the preponderance of such blades.


Lower cartouche: Work of Zaman Isfahani


A known, but not common, maker. Zaman of Isfahan is often referred to as the "son of Assad Allah" but that, like most of the lore, should be taken as praise, rather than representing a literal relationship.


The lateral inscription: Victory from Allah and conquest nigh!

This is a popular Islamic phrase often found on weapons.

An above average blade, congratulations to its owner.



Oliver thank you so much for giving us this translation from the shamshir blade I posted, which is presently being discussed as well on the concurrent thread 'shamshir translation'. It is interesting to see the Buduh square along with these cartouches.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

PLEASE SEE http://islamic-arts.org/2011/amulets-and-talismans-from-the-islamic-world/ for a good general description of Islamic Talismanic artefacts.

[Kubur]

PLEASE SEE http://islamic-arts.org/2011/amulets-and-talismans-from-the-islamic-world/ for a good general description of Islamic Talismanic artefacts. YES and buy this book!!
excellent

Power and Protection: Islamic Art and the Supernatural (Paperback)
by Francesca Leoni, Christiane Gruber

[William Fox]

A huge thank you to Oliver Pinchot for Kindly translating the calligraphy. It has enhanced my appreciation of this beautiful sword.

If anyone has photos of other magic squares used on blades, please post them. This is a fascinating topic!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THIS REFERENCE CARRIES 173 JAW DROPPING REFERENCES ~ I would place this near the front of any research on Talisman related issues and in particular on Ethiopian structures, silver ring engravings, and other 7 stars related marks encountered across Islamic frontiers.
For the actual page full of research notes see https://www.bing.com/search?q=ISLAMIC+ARTS+TALISMAN+ON+SWORDS&go=Search&qs=ds&form=QBRE
While the pinpoint research document by LLOYD Graham is http://www.academia.edu/1999297/In_Islamic_Talismans_Repeat-Letter_Ciphers_Representing_the_Greatest_Name_Rela te_to_an_Early_Prototype_of_the_Seven_Seals_and_ma y_Link_the_Seals_with_the_Pleiades

[Edster]

Ibrahiim,

Thanks for posting these two great links. The Graham article may have unlocked the mystery of the silver grip govers in my Kaskara Silver Dress essay!! The Star & Comet motif may be explained in the Dotted Cross and Stars within the Seven Seals. Likewise, the Squares could be an interpretation of the Dotted Cross as well. This may be a stretch, but so far it's the best explanation available. I'll revise the essay to include this speculation.

William,

The Sotheby's image of an Ali Dinar sword (c.1916) from shows magic squares on the blade.

(Help. I cannot attach images (Figs. 10a, 8 & 1) from the Kaskara Silver Dress essay) to this reply. The Manage Attachments button does not open.)

Ed


ESSAY HERE (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24124&highlight=Kaskara+Silver+Dress+essay)


.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

William, That is great news !! Good luck with your thesis and I look forward to seeing it. :)

[fernando]

--- (Help. I cannot attach images (Figs. 10a, 8 & 1) from the Kaskara Silver Dress essay) to this reply. The Manage Attachments button does not open.)---
This should not happen; why don't you try again later, Ed ?

[Edster]

Fernando,

It still doesn't work, even on this post. Would you be so kind as to extract those three images from my essay and insert them in the post?

Ibrahiim,

BTW, I communicated with Dr. Graham and he didn't see the relationship with the Seven Seals. A derivation, the dotted cross, may work, but its traditional meaning relates to illness and is a stretch to warrior concerns. I'll address this issue when the essay is updated as it is converted to .PDF.

Best,
Ed

[fernando]

Fernando,

It still doesn't work, even on this post. Would you be so kind as to extract those three images from my essay and insert them in the post? ...
Done !

[Kubur]

Ibrahiim,

Thanks for posting these two great links. The Graham article may have unlocked the mystery of the silver grip govers in my Kaskara Silver Dress essay!! The Star & Comet motif may be explained in the Dotted Cross and Stars within the Seven Seals. Likewise, the Squares could be an interpretation of the Dotted Cross as well. This may be a stretch, but so far it's the best explanation available. I'll revise the essay to include this speculation.

William,

The Sotheby's image of an Ali Dinar sword (c.1916) from shows magic squares on the blade.

(Help. I cannot attach images (Figs. 10a, 8 & 1) from the Kaskara Silver Dress essay) to this reply. The Manage Attachments button does not open.)

Ed


ESSAY HERE (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24124&highlight=Kaskara+Silver+Dress+essay)


.
Hi Ed

Well as i wrote previously but clearly nobody look at it
read this book, one Sudanese sword is mentionned...

Power and Protection: Islamic Art and the Supernatural (Paperback)
by Francesca Leoni, Christiane Gruber

Kubur

[Edster]

Fernando,

Thanks!!!

Kubur,

Magnificent Ali Dinar style sword. That must be a great book you recommend. Unfortunately, it's too expensive for me to buy and isn't available free online or via my favorite pirate site, Lingen.io. Is there anything therein that might inform the basis of either the star & comet or dotted-cross motifs?

Best regards,
Ed

[Jens Nordlunde]

Here are two more Buduhs.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim,

Thanks for posting these two great links. The Graham article may have unlocked the mystery of the silver grip govers in my Kaskara Silver Dress essay!! The Star & Comet motif may be explained in the Dotted Cross and Stars within the Seven Seals. Likewise, the Squares could be an interpretation of the Dotted Cross as well. This may be a stretch, but so far it's the best explanation available. I'll revise the essay to include this speculation.

William,

The Sotheby's image of an Ali Dinar sword (c.1916) from shows magic squares on the blade.

(Help. I cannot attach images (Figs. 10a, 8 & 1) from the Kaskara Silver Dress essay) to this reply. The Manage Attachments button does not open.)

Ed


ESSAY HERE (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24124&highlight=Kaskara+Silver+Dress+essay)


.

Hello William.. Indeed interesting as the 4 and 5 dotted cross are applied to the hilt. the budu square is excellent and clearly placed. I note the square is placed above and left of the main cartouche and this seems standard. It is interesting that the letters are related to a numerical progression which I think was first indicated after magic squares were transmitted to the Arabs from the Chinese and then relayed in the other direction back to China later.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here are two more Buduhs.

On the lower sword I note the inclusion of the three dots on the 4 points of the cartouche .

Three dots appear on all manner of blades and including Nepalese and Persian as well as Indian. These marks appear to indicate the Trimurti form yet evidence also points toward something else; Tamerlane.

On Islamic blades the geometry seems to be one of protection against evil spirits and in other regions the dots placed not only on blades but on hilts presumably blocking evil from entering the blade from either direction.

Tradition indicates that on a set of Islamic prayer beads there are often three beads included at the end of the string to stop the devil climbing up!

Below; Islamic beads plus 3 to ward off evil spirits and the Tamerlane three dots...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Reference A;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10871&highlight=TULVAR

In support ...a sort of world order of three dot insignia I searched for three dots on a blade and extracted this from http://greatdreams.com/three/three.htm ~

Quote."This symbol a triad or trinity. It is a symbol of the unity of body, mind and spirit. The symbol is of universal significance - it is found throughout history and all over the world. It was popularized early in this century by the Russian-born artist, philosopher and scientist Nicholas Roerich. (http://www.roerich.org). It can be interpreted in many different senses: spirit/mind/body in a circle of synthesis; past/present/future enclosed in the ring of eternity; art/science/religion bound in a circle of culture

The oldest of Indian symbols, Chintamani, the sign of happiness, is composed of this symbol and it can be found in the Temple of Heaven in Beijing. It appears in the Three Treasures of Tibet; on the breast of the Christ in Memling’s famous painting; on the Madonna of Strasbourg; on the shields of the Crusaders and coat of arms of the Templars. It can be seen on the blades of the famous Caucasian swords called "Gurda" and on the swords of Japanese nobility.

It appears as a symbol in several philosophical systems. It can be discovered on the images of Gessar Khan and Rigden Djapo; on the "Tamga" of Timurlane and on the coat of arms of the Popes. It can be seen in the works of ancient Spanish painters and of Titian, and on the ancient ikon of St. Nicholas in Bari and that of St. Sergius and the Holy Trinity. It appears on the coat of arms of the city of Samarkand, on Ethiopian and Coptic antiquities, on the rocks of Mongolia, on Tibetan rings, on Buddhist banners, on the breast ornaments of all the Himalayan countries, and on the pottery of the Neolithic age.

The symbol of the triad or trinity has existed over immeasurable time and throughout the world. It can be understood as a key to the integrity and interdependence of all existence.." Unquote.

[Jim McDougall]

Reference A;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10871&highlight=TULVAR

In support ...a sort of world order of three dot insignia I searched for three dots on a blade and extracted this from http://greatdreams.com/three/three.htm ~

Quote."This symbol a triad or trinity. It is a symbol of the unity of body, mind and spirit. The symbol is of universal significance - it is found throughout history and all over the world. It was popularized early in this century by the Russian-born artist, philosopher and scientist Nicholas Roerich. (http://www.roerich.org). It can be interpreted in many different senses: spirit/mind/body in a circle of synthesis; past/present/future enclosed in the ring of eternity; art/science/religion bound in a circle of culture

The oldest of Indian symbols, Chintamani, the sign of happiness, is composed of this symbol and it can be found in the Temple of Heaven in Beijing. It appears in the Three Treasures of Tibet; on the breast of the Christ in Memling’s famous painting; on the Madonna of Strasbourg; on the shields of the Crusaders and coat of arms of the Templars. It can be seen on the blades of the famous Caucasian swords called "Gurda" and on the swords of Japanese nobility.

It appears as a symbol in several philosophical systems. It can be discovered on the images of Gessar Khan and Rigden Djapo; on the "Tamga" of Timurlane and on the coat of arms of the Popes. It can be seen in the works of ancient Spanish painters and of Titian, and on the ancient ikon of St. Nicholas in Bari and that of St. Sergius and the Holy Trinity. It appears on the coat of arms of the city of Samarkand, on Ethiopian and Coptic antiquities, on the rocks of Mongolia, on Tibetan rings, on Buddhist banners, on the breast ornaments of all the Himalayan countries, and on the pottery of the Neolithic age.

The symbol of the triad or trinity has existed over immeasurable time and throughout the world. It can be understood as a key to the integrity and interdependence of all existence.." Unquote.


This is an excellent grouping of the scope of the use of the three dot symbolism in various cultures and contexts, which of course though not necessarily universally the same religiously or symbolically in detail, the three is key.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The great danger here is that members may consider the three dots as explained whereas these are only suggested since the variety of possibilities is vast>>>and covering an enormous timescale as well as all the main religions the world! many of these possibilities are unrelated while some are probably loosely connected and even connected to mysterious cult followings like Free Masons etc. What seems clear is the Talisman effect in protecting the blades although instances where other artifacts seem designed with # dots such as in ceramic wares from Iznic Turkish wares.

Below a few examples on blades and the chart of three dots and including the sawback or eyelash feature seen in many regions. The 3 dot form may also be a simple ruse to raise the price in indicating a high quality blade in the same way as placing important features on a blade such as ANDREA FERRERA or The name of a famous maker...or a Wolf or other inscription on a blade> Naturally the holy script of religion can be added as Talisman on blade hilt or accoutrements as in Mahdi shirts, allam battle banners and flags and unusual weaponry such as Mace.

[Jens Nordlunde]

The sword shown below was owned by Shri Jodh Bahadur/Rao Jodh II of Salumbar/Udaipur/Mewar, and is dated VS 1927 - AD 1870-71. Born AD 1833 and ruled from 1863 to 1901(?).

The three dots have been used almost as if they were closing the fullers as it is often seen.

[fernando]

What a fabulous sword, Jens !

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you Fernando,
You may be able to see that one, and only one of them at the end of the blade, is 'closed' with three dots as well.
It is interesting that the inscription under the disc, as well as the one at the back of the blade, gives the owners name and the place.
Rao Jodh II was the 24th ruler of Salumbar, and the history about how Salumbar was started is quite interesting - with a coconut and a misplaced joke.

[Jim McDougall]

The sword shown below was owned by Shri Jodh Bahadur/Rao Jodh II of Salumbar/Udaipur/Mewar, and is dated VS 1927 - AD 1870-71. Born AD 1833 and ruled from 1863 to 1901(?).

The three dots have been used almost as if they were closing the fullers as it is often seen.



This is most interesting Jens, and as we have often noted, the 'three dots' have often been found on Indian blades in seemingly strategic locations, as if to add strength or power to that key point of the blade.

In this instance at the terminus of the flutes, this is often seen in European blades as in Spanish blades, the 'anchor' often was seen at end of fullers.
I would note here that these kinds of flutes in the forte of the blade were typical on 18th century Solingen blades as often seen on broadswords found on Scottish basket hilts. This suggests possible factors of European influence here.

On earlier European blades the Bishop's cross often 'enclosed' names, phrases or invocations in this manner, as if to augment or enhance the power or significance of what was being expressed.

It is often perplexing in trying to consider certain markings on blades such as the 'sickle' marks often copied on Indian blades (recalling of course the Genoan/Styrian forms)............were these to suggest quality as often assumed, or imbuements of power and strength ?


Could these three dots possibly have been in imitation of the three dots typically part of the sickle mark described, but taken singly in accord with the numeric value of the Trimurti....and placed to add such strength?
The grouping of dots at the top of the fuller is of configured as five rather than three, which of course seems unusual unless simply added in accord with the others in an aesthetic sense.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Jim,
The five dots are share one of the dots, have a look here.
This blade is quite unusual, as one side is wootz and the other side is pattern welded with only two fullers along the blade.

[Jim McDougall]

AHAH!!! The dreaded five dot combination!!! :)
OK that makes sense, and works out by saving space.
With that in mind, I think of the dot combinations in the Italian blade markings. ….those 'Genoan' sickle marks while seen in pretty standard arrangement were often realigned in all sorts of configurations.

It truly is interesting to look into. A mark may have had peculiar significance in its origin, then later become looked at as a sign of quality......further copying led to its use as an aesthetic theme or arrangement...its original meaning long lost.

In Germany the use of Toledo markings were much in this manner, and certain marks were paired or grouped completely incongruently .

It all makes for interesting study and investigation for those who enjoy a good mystery.....weapons have a lot of 'em!!

[Edster]

Great thread. I'm learning that:

Seldom is a cigar just a cigar!

[Jens Nordlunde]

Here is the sickle with the three dots.
Detail from a tulwar blade. Mughal late 17th to early 18th century.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7138 where MATCHLOCK (RIP) placed a stunning article on the haquebus and showed three dots at #! on the 6th picture. BELOW:shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

More on the 3 dot structure using an image of an Afghanistan Pulwar ~

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

More on the 3 dot structure using an image of an Islamic Gun at the cannon barrel end. ~

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Here's another configuration of the three dots. They are on a sword that I can only describe as an Indian style cutlass.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi,
Here's another configuration of the three dots. They are on a sword that I can only describe as an Indian style cutlass.
Regards,
Norman.




Most tactfully and well described Norman :) lest we stir another 'name game' debate!! It seems that the term may be well placed, given that the Marathas were known for their notable naval power.


Ibrahiim thank you for these further examples into use on guns in various contexts. It seems I recall in our findings that in many cases there were numbers of gold metal filled dots on the blades of early Islamic swords (varied in number) which were said to be talismans to bring luck.


With reference to the three dot configuration in European context, the heavy bladed swords with rebated blade tips typically used as 'bearing swords' (though often termed more nefariously) often had three holes at the tip of the blade. These have been explained as to be there to create a whistling in the stroke; to attach weights and not sure of what other fanciful purposes..however the representation of the Holy Trinity is most reasonable.


Curiously, heavy bladed swords in Africa claimed to be used in similar purpose in cases have had the same three holes in the same blade location.


Jens shows a great example of Mughal tulwar with the familiar sickle and three dots configuration, clearly copying the European mark well known on blades elsewhere in India in many instances.

[fernando]

If we look at "Armi Bianche Italiane" (Boccia/Coelho), we can see the dots "all over" such work. Curiously the authors care to add in index of all weapons illustrated in the book but i don't see any their assessment on the dots interpretation.


.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent example Fernando, and Boccia & Coelho (1975) is an outstanding reference with comprehensive illustrations of these many known markings. As noted, there really are no details or insights into the symbolism imbued in any of them (or few) and these are realized as occurring on blades with period or regional attribution noted but not necessarily particular maker.

This suggests of course that these markings, in which configurations are often multiply used or in varying numbers ,are most likely renderings of certain devices or imbuements. We know that the 'Genoan' sickle (dentated arcs) marks were apparently some type of mark used in Genoa, or attributed to that city as a departure port for blades. The mark actually occurs on blades from other centers as well.

This I think was the reason the mark became so widely copied, as it noted 'quality' in these blades so widely traded, and just as with Toledo as well as Solingen/Passau that connotation prevailed.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you for showing this Fernando, some of them I have never seen before.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Excellent example Fernando, and Boccia & Coelho (1975) is an outstanding reference with comprehensive illustrations of these many known markings. As noted, there really are no details or insights into the symbolism imbued in any of them (or few) and these are realized as occurring on blades with period or regional attribution noted but not necessarily particular maker.

This suggests of course that these markings, in which configurations are often multiply used or in varying numbers ,are most likely renderings of certain devices or imbuements. We know that the 'Genoan' sickle (dentated arcs) marks were apparently some type of mark used in Genoa, or attributed to that city as a departure port for blades. The mark actually occurs on blades from other centers as well.

This I think was the reason the mark became so widely copied, as it noted 'quality' in these blades so widely traded, and just as with Toledo as well as Solingen/Passau that connotation prevailed.

HELLO JIM... What a great thread!!

I heard that the arc sign called variously hogs back or eye lash marks was a secret sign made by prisoners to signal to a visitor or onlooker that all was OK … Would that indicate that the dots were actually toes..? And taken from ancient tradition as three is an auspicious number in many structures. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

HELLO JIM... What a great thread!!

I heard that the arc sign called variously hogs back or eye lash marks was a secret sign made by prisoners to signal to a visitor or onlooker that all was OK … Would that indicate that the dots were actually toes..? And taken from ancient tradition as three is an auspicious number in many structures. :shrug:

Thank you! It is good to see some traction in looking into these markings, which as noted regarding the typical lack of attention to explaining or any particular attention other than mentioning their presence.

These and many of the markings which were discussed over years in the trademarks thread have had many suggestions and explanations discussed, and most are of course apocryphal but indeed feasible in numerous cases.

What has brought us to these curious paired arcs (usually dentated) were the triple dots at the end of each arc. It seems certain such symbols may have been placed congruently with others to disguise them in degree.

As mentioned, in the case of 'dots' in Islamic parlance, in many cases the number and configuration may have simply been for 'luck', but with regard to the 'three' that may well have been with religious significance. It is always hard to guage just how much influence diffused into various cultures and regions from another, but the varied examples and cases can be estimated on their own merits.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I note that across the entire spectrum there appear certain key royal marks such as the Ottoman (Othmanli) Tughra although in this case below I show an Indian blade mark of Royal intent... The Parasol Mark. This mark thus appears as an imbuement to the other Talisman figures on these important weapons.

In addition it carries three dots atop the Parasol and second cartouche which is in Islamic script and flanked to one side by the Buduh square as well as ribbons of attribution to Religious Iconic figures; again in scripted gold style.

SEE https://auctionsimperial.hibid.com/lot/21857164/a-fine-mughal-shamshir-sword/?sort=2&ref=catalog FOR THE SUPERB DESCRIPTION

[Jens Nordlunde]

Ibrahiim, could you possible turn the pictures so they will fit within the frame?
Thank you
Jens

[Kubur]

SEE https://auctionsimperial.hibid.com/lot/21857164/a-fine-mughal-shamshir-sword/?sort=2&ref=catalog FOR THE SUPERB DESCRIPTION

... famous Imperial Parasol mark indicating it was owned by the Mughal Emperor...

Well in fact it was given by the Mughal emperor not owned... that's a huge difference... but still a royal provenance i agree

[Jim McDougall]

... famous Imperial Parasol mark indicating it was owned by the Mughal Emperor...

Well in fact it was given by the Mughal emperor not owned... that's a huge difference... but still a royal provenance i agree


Well noted, and I think what is being observed are the various perceptions toward these distinct occurrences of the gold parasol on certain very high quality Indian blades.

There are suggestions that the parasol mark was indicative of the finest Persian blade makers for Royal patrons, and that this mark indicates Royal ownership or indeed for presentation deserving such recognition.
The blade in the link also carries the Assad Allah cartouche, which of course aligns with the suggestion regarding Persian blade makers. Along with that is the beduh square, which brings the character of this blade into the talismanic perspective which is themed in Ibrahiims observation.


The parasol as being discussed, can also have talismanic properties being symbolized (still in its Royal connotation) in that it is of course a protective device in character, in addition to its auspicious meaning representing in effect the 'dome of heaven'.


In many examples of the parasol marking the three dot device is included at the base of the handle, also the dangling fringe dots from the parasol dome are typically three on each side.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well noted, and I think what is being observed are the various perceptions toward these distinct occurrences of the gold parasol on certain very high quality Indian blades.

There are suggestions that the parasol mark was indicative of the finest Persian blade makers for Royal patrons, and that this mark indicates Royal ownership or indeed for presentation deserving such recognition.
The blade in the link also carries the Assad Allah cartouche, which of course aligns with the suggestion regarding Persian blade makers. Along with that is the beduh square, which brings the character of this blade into the talismanic perspective which is themed in Ibrahiims observation.


The parasol as being discussed, can also have talismanic properties being symbolized (still in its Royal connotation) in that it is of course a protective device in character, in addition to its auspicious meaning representing in effect the 'dome of heaven'.


In many examples of the parasol marking the three dot device is included at the base of the handle, also the dangling fringe dots from the parasol dome are typically three on each side.


HELLO Jim ..I note the following thread here on EAA Library as full of detail on the PARASOL on MUGHAL weapons. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7165

In addition I add this dagger with Cartouche and Parasol as also of Royal linkage although in many cases not necessarily owned by the Emperor(BUT THIS ONE WAS SHAH JAHANs) but perhaps more his insignia denoting fine quality; probably made in a Royal Workshop. (The larger picture from the thread at para 1 at # 7 by RAND.)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Is it possible that the three dot form is in fact linked closely to Koranic script? ...see the picture of the very important red amulet below surrounded by the row of triple dots..With an important verse from the Koran inside the protective? dots.

This object is illustrated from the MET museum and incorporated at https://simergphotos.com/2013/02/19/the-tradition-of-amulets-in-the-muslim-world/

[Jim McDougall]

That is truly an interesting and compelling note !
The 'three' is a significant numeral in many contexts it seems, and as it transcends cultures and religions, superstitions, etc. it is perceived accordingly.

While obviously the three in Christianity signifies the Holy Trinity, but in other religions it has similar purpose but clearly different in definition.

It would be interesting to see more on this angle of the three dots in use!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello Jim,

The use in combination with Koranic script is most interesting and it seems there were no barriers on blades in using any of these marks singly or in multiples or all together. Thus I searched for evidence from the Religious script viewpoint and although the dots were not always used they certainly sometimes were.. I suspect their presence indicates a particularly important verse however what the exact meaning was meant to convey...protection from evil spirits or as some form of added sentinel or simply a good luck omen it is difficult to be certain.. diffusion in use across the different artefacts seems proven and below I have two forms ; one on Ceramic and the other on Islamic script.
On the tile is the clear three dot symbol of Tamberlane on a Turkish ceramic accompanied by the elusive second element of Tamerlanes marker... tiger stripes.

On the script and geometric covers of a rare pair of document covers at page 30 of TRM TAREQ RAJEB MUSEUMs 1994 DOCUMENT ...the actual contents being on page 31 which comprise Al-Shihabs Sayings of THE PROPHET(PBOH) written in Valencia 1172 AD. THE 3 DOTS in this case appearing just off the main page but seemingly guarding it. Notice also that the outer most border of the covers comprises a complete band of figure 3 and figure 5 dots...thus possibly signifying a kind of sentinel or guard line protecting the entire folder and inner document.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Yes the Cintamani (clouds?) is often shown with three dots or maybe it is a flower.
Hilt probably Deccan 17th century with a straight blade.
Catalogue pp. 313-314.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

SEE https://www.academia.edu/17314322/_%C3%87intamani_notes_on_the_formation_of_the_Turc o-Iranian_style_Persica_21_2007_pp._33-49

WHERE IF EVER AN academic paper brilliantly presented blows the entire roof clean off many of the ideas rumours legends and reasoning previously attempted on this great subject>>> The Cintamani Dots>

See below the amazing coat ...Short-sleeved kaftan with Cintamani motifs. Bursa, attributed to Mehmet II but probably 16th century. 13/6, Topkapı Saray Museum, Istanbul.

I thought it a good plan to place the Epilogue first since it is all encompassing but needs the research of the entire document. IT is brilliant>

Quote"Epilogue;

This paper has taken account of the infinitely complex way in which the triple-ball pattern was formed and became known as Cintamani in Ottoman art. Because of its immense impact on the art of the Ottoman period and modern times, a decorative peculiarity of three balls in the triangular arrangement has been celebrated by inviting yet confusing etymological stories. The misleading naming — Cintamani — has increased yet another perplexity and turned into one of the scholarly wonders in Islamic art studies. Clearly, this decorative motif is by no means a parody of Buddhist jewels. Its Turco-Iranian associations speak for itself. There is no intention to rehearse the Ottoman story of Cintamani — how the creative spark of Ottoman designers made this motif special; how the echo of Cintamani reached its climax in the design of ceramics in the 16th century and subsequently spread across variety of media; and how it became standardized due to its involvement in the mass market and lost its exquisite flavour in the 17th century. Yet in any case, Cintamani appears along the ebb and flow of Buddhist inspiration.

As the style mellowed, the triple-ball pattern lost its animal features and began to convey different artistic messages. Its talismanic function was by degrees enhanced in Ottoman contexts, combining the forms of a crescent; it was eventually incorporated into a symbol of Islam, the profession of faith, as exemplified in the design of Ottoman banners."Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Might and Magic: The Use of Talismans in Islamic Arms and Armor


On Islamic armour we haven't really set much in print here, however, please see https://www.metmuseum.org/blogs/ruminations/2016/talismans-in-islamic-arms-and-armor and especially the armoured shirt where the individual rings are stamped with religious names... :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Another Iznic ceramic echos the Othmanli use of the 3 dot "cintimani" design.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The book on Suleyman The Magnificent has further illustrations in its vast volume including furniture< Koran holders< arrow quivers and a great historical account of The Ottoman Empire.

In Ottoman traditional designs we see a changing or morphing style perhaps magnified through the many different schools of design through centres of excellence, royal court workshops and different trades such as woodwork, calligraphy, textiles, carpet weaving, ceramics, armour makers and weapons workshops to name a few. here below are some further examples below. including impressions on coinage, various costumes and black and white sketches from old Turkish carpet design showing variety in the way the Cintimani was interpreted.

Note how the dots may change to diamond shapes or reflect moons and the animal stripe can float as a cloud design especially on carpets.
Generally Cintimani can be reflected by artisans using both dots and stripes or separately and the meaning can evolve from the Turkik tribal 3 way understanding of Sun... Sky... Fire... to a religious triple and perhaps finally to the all encompassing sign of the religion itself thus the Talisman meaning; of Islam; the overall protector.

[Jim McDougall]

Jens thank you for that great hilt entry!!! A perfect example of these unusual 'cintamani' combinations, and those 'lips' looking things do resemble clouds in a 'Rohrshach' kind of way.
Ibrahiim, thank you as well for the diligent research and entries here which are adding do much perspective to the topic.

It does seem that as with all kinds of symbolism or in many instances of intercultural exchange of influences, perception and semantics are going to have understandable differences.

For example, by way of analogy, the venerable European globe and cross, familiar as a key marking on German blades over several centuries, became a fixture not as a makers mark, but a kind of talismanic device which imbued protective properties as well as suggestion of high quality.

As these blades became traded into North Africa, the globe and cross was seen by natives in these regions as a drum and sticks, which were important in their culture as a status oriented symbol. Other markings which were often almost indeterminant in character were seen as (in one case) the fly, which odd as it sounds, to them represented the character of a great warrior.

There are many such examples and surely much the same in other cases where symbols and markings transcend cultural bounds.


I think obviously that the cintamani , referring to the three in figures usually dots, is much in this kind of situation which became a convention adopted broadly to represent what each group or culture perceived it to mean.

In many cases, of course such diffusion can lose deeper meanings and as applied in material culture items as decoration, becomes aesthetic in sense, but for our purposes we want to know the deeper meanings from their origins.


I once had a wonderful shamshir, which was clearly from Central Asia with an amazing instance of the three dot motif applied in linear fashion on the backstrap and other parts of the hilt. It was generally held that this use of the three dots represented the Turkic heritage of these people and of course heralding Tamerlane. In those times I could not associate this device (termed cintamani) with the 'gift giving jewel' in the usually described connotation. With this look into the deeper character of the term and its origins, it becomes much clearer.

So thank you Ibrahiim, and Jens, for adding all of this!!!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks Jim for a great summary on the Talisman Cintimani subject which spans so many centuries and religions down the ages. In the book shown below which I highly recommend to members it describes the difficulty encountered by the Othmanli had immense problems dealing with beurocratic issues at the best of times but in the question of liaison among the different quality workshops it was very chaotic...even though it may be said that in war they had great ability in mastering logistics...in other areas this was not the case.

In fact there was an overall sort of pecking order or authority over other master works that the Royal calligraphers seemed to have but it simply didn't work... specialists in the different disciplines of high quality craftsmanship took the designs to whatever end they were moving...so the Cintimani moved from concept to concept and even split in two the three circles or ideas from the so called tigers stripes so that they often morphed into separate designs or placed in the composition in separate areas or both.

I digress but in support of more pictures here is my next set of quite amazing photographs worth seeing from the Othmanli period on this issue. The red Koran holder showing only dots while the brown Koran holder only wavy lines i.e. Tiger stripes now morphed into cloud patterns and also seen in Turkish Rugs...AND in the decoration of the shield also incorporating dots and cloud patterns but spread separately.

Note that the Ottoman ceramic bottle has clear designs of the Cintimani and the possible shape of the tiger stripes lending themselves to The Buddha lips idea.

A most peculiar painting of a Japanese 3 dotted alter with what seems to be a sacrifice with the perpetrator making an escape and the dead body laid in front of the three ball device? A pointer toward Buddhist involvement?

[Jim McDougall]

It is sometimes hard to maintain discourse and perspective with regard to the talismanic condition as often various marks, devices, phrases etc. become regarded as indicators of quality, status and heritage. With this being the case it seems almost necessary at times to include variations and applications which might exceed the specific talismanic denominator.

In the case of the 'cintimani' device of three orbs I previously noted as found in hilt motif on a shamshir, this perhaps may not have been applied in a 'talismanic' sense per se', but more of a commemorative or honorific sense recalling tribal heritage from Tamerlane.

Still, the deeper origins of the symbol from ancient Buddhist and Hindu tradition and dogma carried profound talismanic properties and varying perception and application. This then became associated with Tamerlane, diffusing into various cultures and their material culture.

As people see this marking in materials, weapons, markings etc. many may see the Tamerlane, Turkic perspective.....while many may perceive the deeper religious and talismanic properties of ancient Buddhism and Hinduism. Here are the varied concepts that Ibrahiim refers to, and fascinating as we look into all of them as we evaluate the properties and character involved in these cases.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Compare two designs ..One of Buddhist the other Ottoman form below..The linkage suggests the two are in some way related on the one hand the 8 auspicious Buddhist signs and the wavy line seen in carpets and textiles (here seen on a Koran wallet from the Ottoman style) and from the Cintimani tiger stripe sometimes also explained as the lips of the Buddha...seen on carpets etc as a W shaped cloud pattern...and comparable to the 8 auspicious Buddhist signs...actually on 7 of them below. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

AND I have to include Omani influenced weapons...with dots on blades. :shrug:

[Victrix]

We discussed four dots marks on swords in an earlier thread. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23282&page=10&pp=30&highlight=dots . The question whether they could be forge or foundry identification marks, or have religious or superstitious/talismanic functions. If I understand this thread correctly, the three dots seems to be a fairly universal talismanic symbol offering ”protection” and the four dots could be a stronger 360˚ version offering ”protection” viewed from all directions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Great point !! Yes agreed and above you see the three khanjar blades with the centre blade protected in all directions and both sides of the blade left and right as well as on the reverse; thus stopping evil from entering blade or hilt...In fact hilts sometimes carry the dots separately as well.. extra empowerment seems to be attached when the dots are in gold or brass/copper material..and it seems Islamic script itself a Talisman sometimes gets the three or four dot treatment. (the 5 dot is in fact unrelated as it stands alone as another Talisman altogether and representative of the five fingers or hand of Fatima often linked to the evil eye protective motif..In fact the saying goes "Heres five in your eye" when that Talisman is illustrated) as below.

As seen on this thread other objects get a similar treatment and I wondered if the transition to moons came as a result of this Talisman although so far as I can deduce moons as such were reserved for blades? :shrug:

[Kubur]

Gentlemens at this stage of the discussion
I would like to share with you one of the most important fact:
a line is made of two points.
;)

[Victrix]

Gentlemens at this stage of the discussion
I would like to share with you one of the most important fact:
a line is made of two points.
;)

Are you saying we are getting a bit ”dotty” here?? :o

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I hesitate to add that we are also going around in circles !!

The question of dots is hardly touched here but the general Talisman focuss I think is well being advanced>> The mathematical wizardry involved in astrology we have hardly noted yet it is vast and pulls in all the mysterious Talisman and magical wonders described by my illustration of the Swordsman built from a star chart in Persia in the early11thC.

Shown below;from the Suwar al-kawakib al-thabita of al-Sufi dated1009-10

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

For a final thrust from the side of proof and discussion looking from the Ottoman advantage I offer the book of Iznic Patterns from more than 10 of the worlds finest museums and 650 plus diagrams and pictures where the chinthimani/ cintimanii gets two full pages dedicated to patterns of Iznic ceramics. The period is known as RHODEAN and covers the early 17th C in artisan production there. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is the book I spoke about above > and the early 17thC Rhodian period patterns; Chintamani :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

KOUMIYYA with hand in silver(Hand of Fatima) decorating and protecting the weapon from evil; Moroccan superstition is bang up to date in the 21st century with such myths and legends and tradition is alive with ancient beliefs. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

KOUMIYYA with hand in silver(Hand of Fatima) decorating and protecting the weapon from evil; Moroccan superstition is bang up to date in the 21st century with such myths and legends and tradition is alive with ancient beliefs. :shrug:


This is a great representation of the use of the hand in Islamic talisman context. While this theme seems to be present broadly through the Dar al-Islam, it does seem to be represented in other manner geometically as in the shape of a triangle. In Central Asia this become a device known as the "Afghan Amulet' (if I recall there is a book by that title) which was used in similar context.
In the Sahara, the Kabyles used the triangular shape in a linear fashion on their familiar 'flyssa' swords and these along with other devices were intended in apotropaic fashion in the 'folk' religions nominally aligned with Islamic Faith.

These traditions extend through the Maghreb which of course include Morocco, and much of the Berber sphere.

[Jim McDougall]

Here is the book I spoke about above > and the early 17thC Rhodian period patterns; Chintamani :shrug:



This is truly an intriguing look into use of the 'cintamani' device so well known in 'Oriental' textiles applied in the design motifs on this pottery. From what I understand the term Iznic refers to the town in the 'Asia Minor' regions (Western Anatolia) and as well noted, the pottery they were known for.
The Ottoman empire of course transmitted this as well as many such artistic influences through their trade and colonization.

Excellent perspective in a venue I had not thought of, and well illustrates the many aspects of material culture outside the arms context which can help us learn more on the markings we find on them .

[Jim McDougall]

Are you saying we are getting a bit ”dotty” here?? :o


Good quip Victrix!

Indeed 'connecting the dots' can be a bit maddening as we try to make sense out of these conundrums, and as Ibrahiim has noted.....we can often seem to be going in circles ......but these discussions can systematically map out the situations and circustances for better investigation.

The knowledge base and diversity of the membership here is phenomenal, and there is no better place to bring these things into the light.


We all share in the adventure.......and 'the games afoot!!'. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you Jim for balancing the thread so far. I was reading about Tipu Sultan (The Tiger of Mysore) and noted Talisman devices on the famous cannon also decorated in Tigers …from http://www.mia.org.qa/en/tigers-dream/tipu-cannon

Quote"
The triumphant lion of God.

Like many other objects in this exhibition, this cannon is laden with tigers and inscriptions. The tiger motif is most forcefully expressed by the snarling tiger heads at the muzzle (front), trunnions (on the sides) and cascabel (back) of the gun barrel. Within a pair of tiger stripes on the barrel, an inscription calls on the ‘triumphant lion of God’, a phrase found regularly in calligraphic designs of this period. This inscription also provides the place and date of manufacture, while the presence of the heart-shaped ‘Haydar’ talisman shows that the cannon was cast at the sultan’s foundry".Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Broadening the search I have to include Alem >>>THe Islamic battle standard that also spread onto some blades SEE https://no.pinterest.com/pin/256845984968764161/?lp=true

And for a bladed example On a Safavid sword below;

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In searching for the perfect battle scene where the Alam is deployed as a battle banner in the role as a Psychological weapon I found this in https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions

[Jim McDougall]

In searching for the perfect battle scene where the Alam is deployed as a battle banner in the role as a Psychological weapon I found this in https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions


Yet another amazing illustration!! Thank you for all the time you spend seeking all of these to help us better understand many of the salient points you place in these threads.

I am a bit puzzled on the 'alem', which is an item not often covered in discussions of Islamic arms. I had thought it was a metal device usually placed atop a pole, in the manner of a polearm or spear and was used as a guidon in forming and directing bodies of troops.

These it seems were often lavished with elaborate Quranic passages and symbolism (much as thuluth covered examples in Sudan), but I was not aware these included textile banners.


The talismanic (psychological) properties are clear however, as these kinds of inscriptions and invocations compel warriors as they move forward into battle.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks Jim, I read that banners or more likely pennants were tied beneath Alam finials and soaked in the enemys blood would greatly empower the battle ensign (alam_) … See https://www.bing.com/images/search?...iri&FORM=HDRSC2 Below~

An interesting depiction of a procession typical of those of pilgrims going to Mecca with flags waving covered in emblems of their faith ...this was recorded as 13thC. It would seem reasonable that battle Alams would incorporate smaller pennants attached for added Talismanic power and inspired by similar religious flag inscriptions.

On closer inspection note Alam and flags as well as pennants are tied to the Alam poles.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Evidence of the Alam plus pennant tradition of combined flag and Alam which transferred to Battle Ensign style and it seems that the potent Talisman effect would be greatly enhanced by the pennants being covered in the blood of the opponents!

I searched for https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+Maqamat+of+al-Hariri&FORM=HDRSC2 as to clues on the combination of flag/pennant and Alam and arrived at an astonishing artwork below ~

The procession which appears to be a wedding group parading along with musicians but led by the several Alam of rectangular form with finials with religious script and pennants tied high on the poles...again decorated in religious script.

[Jim McDougall]

Evidence of the Alam plus pennant tradition of combined flag and Alam which transferred to Battle Ensign style and it seems that the potent Talisman effect would be greatly enhanced by the pennants being covered in the blood of the opponents!

I searched for https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+Maqamat+of+al-Hariri&FORM=HDRSC2 as to clues on the combination of flag/pennant and Alam and arrived at an astonishing artwork below ~

The procession which appears to be a wedding group parading along with musicians but led by the several Alam of rectangular form with finials with religious script and pennants tied high on the poles...again decorated in religious script.



Excellent!

It makes sense that pethaps the 'alem/alam' in concept as a talisman used as a battle standard as well might have the term used more broadly. I think that the term 'talisman' may extend beyond its well known definition of protection and bringing good fortune to that of inspiration in a sense.


These factors are certainly in mind in battle, and warriors would be more inspired to fight with these elements present..........inspiration.

We know that inscriptions such as the thuluth on Sudanese swords were inscribed with invocations in such talismanic sense and these were present on known examples of alem in the Mahdist campaigns.


While I had thought of the alem as being a device in the shape of an enlarged spear head on a pole, it was certainly also present in the manner of finial on the shafts carrying battle standards and flags.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The tradition of carrying in procession such Religious pennants attached to Alam goes back as far as can be imagined thus can be seen in artwork back to the time of the founder of Islam seen below advancing on Mecca...accompanied by his entourage and angels. Battle Alam and Islamic pennants attached therefor go back to the beginning of that religion and accompany pilgrims processions and warring groups as Talisman and inspiring soldiers and civilians alike.

[Jim McDougall]

The tradition of carrying in procession such Religious pennants attached to Alam goes back as far as can be imagined thus can be seen in artwork back to the time of the founder of Islam seen below advancing on Mecca...accompanied by his entourage and angels. Battle Alam and Islamic pennants attached therefor go back to the beginning of that religion and accompany pilgrims processions and warring groups as Talisman and inspiring soldiers and civilians alike.



The tradition of such banners and pennants does indeed go back far into history as you describe, and these artworks representing early Islam signify such importance. Often the use of banners or flags in art in itself become a symbolic device holding reference to deeper matters in the subject matter.


In Turco-Mongol and Turkic khanates, later Ottoman, the use of a standard known as a tugh, typically with mounted devices and flowing yak or horse tails was carried ahead of the forces. The word 'tug' apparently means flagstaff and in the Ottoman devices known as 'tughra', the three vertical lines on top of the symbol represent the tugh.


That the devices mounted atop these banners would carry important invocations and religious phrases is not surprising, and their symbolism augmented the character of the banner flown. This symbolism was inspirational as well as talismanically oriented and powerfully seen by those following it.


The tughra, as we know was often placed on sword blades, and in the manner of patriotic or emboldening phrases displayed the loyalty of the owner to the ruler. This was the case with many devices and symbols on blades in many cultures and circumstances.


The images are the tugh standards and the other (which looks almost amoeba like) is a tughra....the vertical lines at right represent flag staffs.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The Shellenbaum of the German Army, the Chapeau Chinois of the Legion Etrangere etc., would appear to be another incarnation of this form of standard.
Regards,
Norman.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Talisman in a Fort!! FORT JABRIN OMAN BUILT FOR THE THIRD DYNASTY YARUBA IN ABOUT 1680. THE MAGIC EYE. A MASSIVE TALISMAN COVERING THE ENTIRE CEILING :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A quick note on the 3 dot form...and its relative shapes and beliefs.

Reference;
A. NACI ERENs BOOK TURKISH HANDMADE CARPETS PAGE 52.

Notes on the subject of Talisman in rugs and carpets; a popular design using a triangle (and this is very common in Afghanistan) Quote." Another design which was used as much as the Rams Horn was the Muska (Talisman). It is triangular in shape and it must have descended from the triple belief which represented the three gods SKY SUN FIRE of the ancient Turks. In due course it came to represent the three powers of the new religion Islam Creation/ Letting Survive/ Taking away Life One expert indicated that the use of a Talisman together with the triple belief suggests that the Turks in accepting the religion also opened its doors adapting to the full structure of Islamic Talisman and beliefs". Unquote.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim
Thank you so much for the intriguing example of the 'eye' applied to an entire ceiling! While we are familiar with this device being used on weapons and in other material culture talismanically, it is remarkable to see it in such large scale as in architecture. WHAT AN AMAZING EXAMPLE!

Also thank you for the keen insight into the triangle which of course comprises the three dot configuration and its associated symbolisms in geometric form. In Afghanistan as you note it is well known in textiles in a talismanic sense as described by Sheila Payne ("The Afghan Amulet" 1994).
This is a fascinating account of this use of a symbolic device in this manner.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi,
The Shellenbaum of the German Army, the Chapeau Chinois of the Legion Etrangere etc., would appear to be another incarnation of this form of standard.
Regards,
Norman.


Norman, EXCELLENT EXAMPLE!!! This would seem the Germanic tribes interpretation of these kinds of standards probably from the Migration Period and thereby from even Roman origins, It seems these were often in the manner if windsocks , temptingly suggesting wind direction for loosing of arrows in addition to the formation centering use.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

AN important Islamic Talisman is the Zulfiqar forked blade configuration often seen on battle banners ~From might and magic
From the Metropolitan Museum. SEE https://www.metmuseum.org/blogs/ruminations/2016/talismans-in-islamic-arms-and-armor

Quote."What becomes immediately clear in this exhibition is how some motifs designed to avert evil were ubiquitous throughout the Islamic world. For example, each of the exhibition's three geographic sections—Iran, Turkey, and India and Southeast Asia—references Dhu'l Fiqar, a bifurcated sword imbued with miraculous powers that the Prophet Muhammad gave 'Ali, his cousin and son-in-law, in 625 A.D. during the Battle of Uhud. Dhu'l Fiqar prominently adorns a large Ottoman sançak (banner), which is also emblazoned with inscriptions that point to its likely use in a military context."Unquote>

Below; Banner, dated A.H. 1235/A.D. 1819–20. Turkey, probably Istanbul. Islamic. Silk, metal-wrapped thread; lampas, brocaded; H. 115 3/4 in. (294 cm), W. 85 1/2 in. (217.2 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Fletcher Fund, 1976 (1976.312)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

As a link to many Talisman in the Islamic World please see

https://metmuseum.org/toah/hd/tali/hd_tali.htm

I think it helps put our work on this thread into perspective... :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

; :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

Good suggestion!!! The use of floral and vegetal motif can often have talismanic symbolism in many cases, while other are toward dynastic leitmotif or any number of such applications.
I know that Jens has pursued this line of investigation for more years than I can even say, and has brought up important uses in decorative themes many times.
I think one of the most significant has been the use of the poppy, and that may be the best starting points.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello Jim I need to add what I ought to have gotten round to yesterday but the day job intervened !!

The thrust of my point involving indian talismani work is made toward floral decoration on Mughal hilts below.

The thread is vital to our understanding of such influence although because of the destruction of Dara Shikoh and members of his family plus countless artifacts weapons and written work and art the remnants are almost impossible to put together into a focused picture of exactly what happened.

please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22030&highlight=dara+shikoh and apologies as there are Talisman all over it thus it needs a quiete read through from the start. I will deliberately place the entire post relevant at #24 where the text goes into the uses of precious and semi precious stones etc in this regard.

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22030&highlight=dara+shikoh



#24 TALISMANIC FLORAL DECORATION ON INDIAN WEAPONS.



Quote"Hardstones, gems and ivory in Mughal India.

Hardstone marquetry is a long-standing local tradition. The refined technique of inlay, which the Persian and Mughal chroniclers refer to as parchîn kârî, and which was brought to an almost unbelievable peak of excellence by the imperial stoneworkers during the reign of Shah Jahan, consisted of setting in marble or sandstone thin sections of hard or semi-hard stones that had been cut with the greatest of care and fashioned in the shape of tendrils and floral arabesques. The Frenchman François Bernier , who lived in India between 1656 and 1668, describes the mausoleum built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan (1628-1658) for his wife Mumtâz Mahal, in a letter dated 1663 to Monsieur de La Mothe Le Vayer: he speaks with great enthusiasm of the mausoleum’s perfect architecture and of its opulent interior decoration, floral motifs in white marble inlaid with jade, jasper and other sorts of precious stones.

The hardstones used in the decoration of the Taj Mahal, as well as in palaces and imperial buildings all over India and in the surrounding regions, included yellow amber from Burma, lapis-lazuli from Afghanistan, nephrite from Chinese Turkestan, and carnelian, agate, amethyst, jasper, green beryl, chalcedony, onyx and coral from the different regions of the huge Indian sub-continent.

At the Mughal court precious and semi-precious stones were also used to highlight imperial tableware, writing desks, mirrors, huqqa, weapons, royal saddles and even gold and silver gem-studded thrones. Rock-crystal and jade, hardstones which could only be worked with diamond dust, were particularly appreciated at the Mughal court. Objects fashioned in the second half of the seventeenth century by Mughal ateliers or karkhâna from jade – or to be more precise from the nephrite and jadeite imported from Kashgar and from Khotan – such as boxes and pen boxes, huqqa stands and mouthpieces, dagger hilts and archer’s thumb rings, bowls and cups, are particularly remarkable for their delicate inlays of precious stones, predominantly emeralds, diamonds, rubies and spinels, set in gold and forming stylized floral motifs.

Jade was thought to contain Talismanic virtues such as the power of prolonging life – and indeed even that of ensuring immortality; it was also considered to favor success on the battlefield – hence its name of “stone of victory”. It was therefore considered the most appropriate material for the manufacture of ornate arms symbolizing victory. The hilts of these ornate weapons which were only used for ceremonial purposes were often carved in the shape of the head of a horse, a ram, an antelope, a lion or a falcon, always with a quite remarkable and moving expressivity. This repertoire of animal motifs is known to have existed as early as the second half of the reign of Jahangir, and became particularly important under the emperor Shah Jahan.

Ivory carving was an important craft in ancient India. It was to be equally appreciated at the Mughal court, where it was used in the making and ornamentation of chests and caskets, as well as dagger hilts, flasks and powder horns. The latter were given a lively, zoomorphic décor, in which different birds and animals were intermingled – elephants, lions, monkeys, buffaloes, rams, antelopes and hares, as well as composite and imaginary animals. Hunt scenes predominate in these exuberant animal scenes, derived from the iconographic repertoire of Mughal miniatures. Similar scenes also appear in the décor of late sixteenth and early seventeenth century Mughal carpets. Some of the ivory powder horns were clearly gilded and embellished with colors, and the eyes of the animals were occasionally encrusted with amber and precious or semi-precious stones.

The floral and plant motifs predominate in the decorative repertoire of Mughal India. The combination of the naturalistic yet subtly stylized treatment of Mughal flowers, together with their balanced and symmetrical arrangement, is emblematic of Mughal taste in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, when the floral motif became a leitmotiv that permeated all the arts of the court (textiles and decorative arts, arts of the book) and even architecture. This fascination with the floral motif can be traced back to the reign of the Emperor Jahangir. It originated during a journey made by Jahangir in 1620 to Kashmir, a country where the emperor was enchanted by the variety and profusion of the flowers which grew there, and which he was subsequently wont to describe as “a garden where spring reigns eternally”. During this trip the monarch was accompanied by one of the great masters of the imperial atelier of painting, the animal painter Ustâd Mansûr Nâdir al’Asr, who, at the request of the sovereign, executed more than a hundred flower studies, of which only three precious examples still survive.

This poetic delight in the exuberant blossoming flowers of Kashmir was reinforced by the discovery of European herbals brought to the Mughal court by Jesuit missionaries and agents of the East India Company.

The herbals were to exert considerable influence on Mughal flower painting, on the precision with which they were drawn, on the extreme care taken with the representation of botanical details, and on the presence of butterflies and dragonflies fluttering above the corollas and leaves, which Mughal artists, who were familiar with Persian works, often replaced with small meandrous-shaped Chinese clouds (t’chi), which were considered in China to be the vehicles of the gods, and which became a decorative motif in Persian art. As so pertinently noted by M. L. Swietochowski, the regular arrangement of flowers and bouquets in the margins of Mughal miniatures is reminiscent of the ornamentation of a number of Books of Hours from the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, and perhaps even more so of the borders of Flemish engravings on religious subjects".Unquote

I found the entire post a huge subject and the introduction of herbals via the Jesuit missionaries with the EIC bringing inspiration to Persian and Moghul artists with Chinese motifs very interesting. That these motif became Talisman is equally interesting and must be shown as such on this thread as vital to our understanding of Talisman on Ethnographic weapons.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Jim, the poppy stands for a lot of things, like it was said to be a herb of Saturn, or a symbol of both peace and death, and, and....
When we study the different flowers and animals we tend to give them a symbolic meaning, and maybe it is right. or maybe it is not right, as some say when used they are only decoration.
We do, however, know that the Indians at that time were very superstitious, so I find it likely that they believed in this things, just like they did in countries around them, and like they did even before BC.
Their different gods had different weapons, plants and animals attached to them, and the Indians honoured them, so why no use them for decoration?

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim and Jens, these are outstanding responses and insights into this area of talismanic applications of floral and vegetal images in Indian decorative arts. As Ibrahiim has described these kinds of properties extend to the use of precious stones as well.
I know it took him a great deal of time to prepare this detail and am very grateful.

Jens , I know you have spent more time than anyone on these topics over many years, and so much attention to specific cases as you catalogued items in your collection. It is an extremely broad topic to address in general terms. It seems the poppy had some likely application toward drug oriented context.

From what I was able to find, this type of decoration seems to have become popular during the reign of Janhangir as Ibrahiim has noted. He is described as 'pleasure loving' and this appears to suggest the drug orientation. The use of floral designs carried forward with Shah Jahan as well as the very important Dara Shikoh.


As you mention many of the plants and animals also had celestial meanings associated with the gods and as such were applied to decoration on Hindu arms as beautifully described by Elgood. These kinds of decoration were often of course adopted syncretically by the Mughals, just as they added Chinese themes and European from the grimoires and herbals encountered from EIC import mentioned.