Powder Horn for ID and Comment

[kahnjar1]

Just arrived is this large powder horn. The body appears to be bovine and has brass studs at shaped wooden base and a long brass spout which is nicely made and decorated. The seller was of the opinion that the brass spout was "removable", and this COULD possibly be correct as the mouth of the horn has a scoop cut to it. At the same time it could just be that the brass has come away from the horn.
My guess, based on the studs, and the decoration to the brass spout, is that it originates from North Africa, but I could be completely wrong. The chain attachments are similar to those on other North African flasks I have in my collection. The one at the neck is attached to a thick leather collar.
Though not that old IMHO, it is not a recently produced item either. I would think maybe early to mid 20th century.
Any and all comments welcome.
Stu

[rickystl]

Hi Stu

That's a nice, and interesting horn. Yes, the brass studs and the engraving on the brass spout piece seem to be from somewhere in North Africa.
My big curiosity is that brass piece and it's function in relationship to the rest of the horn. It's looks rather heavy, and is drilled through. Yet, as you mentioned, the hole in the tip of the horn itself is cut an an obvious angle. It would make more sense to load a measure or barrel from this point.

I would think that trying to load from the brass piece would be more difficult. But there appears to be traces of black powder on the swelled end. Hmmmm
This brass piece has me stumped for the moment. Since it's drilled through, it would not be used for a measure. I'll have to think about this some more. LOL

Anyway, congratulations. It looks to be in still usable condition.

Rick

[kahnjar1]

Hi Rick, You are right about the powder residue. I forgot to mention that inside the brass piece was a significant build up of hardened powder....approx a level teaspoon full by the time I cleared it. Definitely powder as I threw a match at it and it fizzed well!
Hopefully more will comment on this flask and throw some concrete light on it's origins.
StuHi Stu

That's a nice, and interesting horn. Yes, the brass studs and the engraving on the brass spout piece seem to be from somewhere in North Africa.
My big curiosity is that brass piece and it's function in relationship to the rest of the horn. It's looks rather heavy, and is drilled through. Yet, as you mentioned, the hole in the tip of the horn itself is cut an an obvious angle. It would make more sense to load a measure or barrel from this point.

I would think that trying to load from the brass piece would be more difficult. But there appears to be traces of black powder on the swelled end. Hmmmm
This brass piece has me stumped for the moment. Since it's drilled through, it would not be used for a measure. I'll have to think about this some more. LOL

Anyway, congratulations. It looks to be in still usable condition.

Rick

[rickystl]

Hi Stu

I was thinking that maybe the horn had a different cap originally, and the long, decorative spout added latter. But as you mentioned, there was a fair amount of crusted powder remaining inside the spout. So, obviously the spout was utilized with the horn.
The angle cut at the horn tip would likely assist the flow of the powder through the long brass spout while loading. As well as re-filling the horn with powder.
So it appears the two pieces were made together and the brass spout has simple come loose over the many years. Likely had some type of wooden plug for the end of the spout. Just my guess on this.

I have no idea as to it's origin. But likely somewhere in North Africa. The decoration on the spout look more generic Moroccan or Algerian (?)
Looks like there are no cracks, etc. on the body of the horn, and it's probably still usable.
Again, nice find.

Rick

[colin henshaw]

Nice piece. I vote for from the East Africa region somewhere. That faceted form reminds a bit of this Malawi ? powder horn I posted a while back. The brass part is a little reminiscent of the finials to some Afar knife sheaths. The brass tacks are pretty widespread in Africa.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Stu

I was thinking that maybe the horn had a different cap originally, and the long, decorative spout added latter. But as you mentioned, there was a fair amount of crusted powder remaining inside the spout. So, obviously the spout was utilized with the horn.
The angle cut at the horn tip would likely assist the flow of the powder through the long brass spout while loading. As well as re-filling the horn with powder.
So it appears the two pieces were made together and the brass spout has simple come loose over the many years. Likely had some type of wooden plug for the end of the spout. Just my guess on this.

I have no idea as to it's origin. But likely somewhere in North Africa. The decoration on the spout look more generic Moroccan or Algerian (?)
Looks like there are no cracks, etc. on the body of the horn, and it's probably still usable.
Again, nice find.

Rick
Yes you are right. My thinking is that the brass has come loose and should be refixed, which I will do in due course, but might just wait to see if there are other replies which say it should be seperate. There are no cracks or holes to the horn, so it is definitely usable.
Stu

[kahnjar1]

Nice piece. I vote for from the East Africa region somewhere. That faceted form reminds a bit of this Malawi ? powder horn I posted a while back. The brass part is a little reminiscent of the finials to some Afar knife sheaths. The brass tacks are pretty widespread in Africa.
Thanks Colin. I see similarities in the horn you show, especially the faceted shape of the "spout". Is the faceted part on yours made of wood, or is it heavily tarnished brass?
Stu

[colin henshaw]

Thanks Colin. I see similarities in the horn you show, especially the faceted shape of the "spout". Is the faceted part on yours made of wood, or is it heavily tarnished brass?
Stu

Its made of horn, with a dark patina, probably from handling.

[kahnjar1]

Its made of horn, with a dark patina, probably from handling.
Thank you. Very nice flask you have by the way. I assume the "pockets" on the belt are for storing ball?

Stu

[motan]

Hi Stu,
Is the hole in the copper spout round and clean, like a gun barrel?
Is it possible that you could open and close the powder flow by turning the copper spout?
I agree with Rick that the copper spout looks like a later addition, because the spout behind the copper looks normal and functional and was probably closed with a cap, originally. The copper spout was added perhaps as a decorative element, but it has been used.
As for the origin, copper studs of this type were used in West Africa and the Syrian desert too and the decoration of the copper spout looks faintly African/Saharan, but is not really a clear indication.
So, it is all about finding a similar example with known origin.

[colin henshaw]

Thank you. Very nice flask you have by the way. I assume the "pockets" on the belt are for storing ball?

Stu

Thanks Stu. Yes, the hide pockets/pouches must have been for the ammunition I suppose; perhaps also for flints and/or fibre match etc ? The end of the faceted horn part would originally have had a brass/iron collar, now missing. I always find these cross-cultural African/Islamic items of much interest.

Colin

[kahnjar1]

Hi Stu,
Is the hole in the copper spout round and clean, like a gun barrel?
Is it possible that you could open and close the powder flow by turning the copper spout?
I agree with Rick that the copper spout looks like a later addition, because the spout behind the copper looks normal and functional and was probably closed with a cap, originally. The copper spout was added perhaps as a decorative element, but it has been used.
As for the origin, copper studs of this type were used in West Africa and the Syrian desert too and the decoration of the copper spout looks faintly African/Saharan, but is not really a clear indication.
So, it is all about finding a similar example with known origin.
Thanks for the reply Eytan. The hole in the brass spout is round as in a gun muzzle, but there is no open/close facility, and as has been suggested, the brass could well have been added later.
Stu