Marking on the dagger blade

[Evgeny_K]

Gents,
Please help to id this marking if it possible.
Blade looks like remains of European dagger.
Thank you in advance,
Evgeny

[mariusgmioc]

I guess nobody recognizes the marking. :shrug:

[fernando]

Such a pity, Evgeny. It is so clear and no one recognizes it.

[Helleri]

All I can say is that the shield shape looks like a Victorian wedge. And the arrow with the line looks like a simplified anchor.

[cornelistromp]

with the short tapered tang and the remains of a rivet, is this probably about the blade of a plug bayonet, 17thC.

one could try to find the mark in this category.

best,
jasper

[fernando]

That is surpising news, Jasper ... at least to me :o.
According to authority R.D.C. Evans and also to a few plug bayonets i have and had myself, always we have a pin-tang system, which runs full length of the hilt. Very, very rarely we have a push tang, where a short tapered tang passes through an aperture in the crossguard, the grip added by hammering it onto the remaining tang length, secured by friction or by gluing, a popular table-cuttlery method, visibly lacking in strenght. In any case, no rivets taking place ... at least that i have heard of :shrug:.



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[cornelistromp]

That is surpising news, Jasper ... at least to me :o.
According to authority R.D.C. Evans and also to a few plug bayonets i have and had myself, always we have a pin-tang system, which runs full length of the hilt. Very, very rarely we have a push tang, where a short tapered tang passes through an aperture in the crossguard, the grip added by hammering it onto the remaining tang length, secured by friction or by gluing, a popular table-cuttlery method, visibly lacking in strenght. In any case, no rivets taking place ... at least that i have heard of :shrug:.

.

some spanish and probably also portugese do have rivets .

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

I dare say Jasper, that this beautiful dagger is not a plug bayonet. Its handle lacks the obligatory shape, namely the grip swell.


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[cornelistromp]

for me it is more a bayonet, besides only taper is needed to stay in the barrel. see eg English bayonet from the end of the 17th century.

best,
jasper

[fernando]

Let me try and make myself understood, Jasper ...

You must have the grip tapering in a way that you push it firmly towards the swell, until you get it 'stuck', to prevent it from oscilating; no more 'hollow' space between this and the crossguard ferrule.
The British example you show is correct; but i am afraid your previous example doesn't fit into the plug bayonet category.
I am no expert though; but it helps to look at a couple hundred plug bayonets in rather comprehensive R.D.C. book; none has rivets in their handles, by the way.




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[cornelistromp]

although it is not in the book of Evans, for me it is a plug bayonet and one with a riveted grip.
if you have a different opinion, which differs from mine, that is absolutely fine of course.

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

Met vriendelijke groeten :cool: