Small Ottoman? Persian? Kard.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
This Kard seems particularly small 7 5/8ths inches overall with a 4 inch blade and 9 inches with sheath and knife together. White metal sheath and hilt, might be some type of silver alloy. Gold work on the blade but unfortunately the calligraphy part is nigh on impossible to read as it is quite degraded. I have seen a similar item on Oriental Arms website but it was a while ago and I've lost the link. Was this intended for a child? Was it for a scribe? All info gratefully received.
Regards,
Norman.

[YataganMan]

This little knife is Ottoman/Turkish ,they were produced for the girls in the hareem for self protection its size enabled the owner to conceal it under her clothing.The white metal was widely used at that time in the production of hilts and scabbards in lieu of silver cost of which was more affordable.

[Battara]

What a nice bichaq card!

I've noticed that many of these Balkan examples are quite small and not for children but worn by men like the Bosnian gentleman in the picture below.

[kronckew]

...local equivalent of a pocket knife ;)

[mariusgmioc]

Very beautiful example of an Ottoman Bichaq from the Balcans (Bosnia?).

They come in a rather wide range of sizes. Yours can be for a boy but it still falls within the normal range of sizes. :)

[Kubur]

I'm very suspicious about your kard or bichaq.
In red, Ottoman Balkans features, no explanations needed.
In green, Indian features:
the flowers design
the fact that the scabbard tip is in one piece, on the Ottoman examples it's another part.
The mid part of the knife is very Indian to me.
Finaly this knife is an excellent condition.
Someone knows if Indians are doing copies of Ottoman weapons??
I just ask...

:confused:

[Norman McCormick]

Thanks guys for your insight and comments.
Regards,
Norman.

[motan]

Hi Norman,
To me, it looks like a Ottoman Greek dagger. Having said that, it is not a typical one because most of them have a more Bichaq-like shape and the silver engraving is done with deeper relief, more like the one discussed here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10027
In my mind, the style of decoration is not Persian but shows European influence, and the all-silver-plated look is certainly not Persian, but Greek-Ottoman. But I might be wrong, of course.

[motan]

After a closer look, I have to share Kubur's suspition. The gold koftgari does not look right and it COULD be an old simple kard blade re-hilted in India in general Ottoman-Balkan style

[estcrh]

Finaly this knife is an excellent condition.
Someone knows if Indians are doing copies of Ottoman weapons??
I just ask...

:confused:They can and have copied a wide range of weapons and armor. I always look for signs of wear, there should always be some wear on an old blade and scabbard. I have seen quite a few with beautiful gold work that looks like it was applied yesterday, not a hundred years ago, as beautiful as they are I pass for more used looking weapons with no doubt of authenticity.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Some more images that might help the deliberations.
Regards,
Norman.

[estcrh]

Hi,
Some more images that might help the deliberations.
Regards,
Norman.
The blade looks good to me, I see the signs of wear that one would expect to see on an older blade. Assuming that the scabbard and fittings are original to the blade the size is not unusual, I have a kard that is 10 1/2" with a 7 1/2".
blade, I also have a kard that is 17.5 inches long, quite a wide range of sizes.

Here is a link to many kard examples.
https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/kard-knife-dagger/

[Battara]

Thanks for the pics. I am now more convinced that the piece is Ottoman, but came into the hands of a Greek who took off the cartouche - a common practice among Greeks who got Ottoman pieces.

Sometimes the Ottoman and Indian kards are hard to distinguish due to trade and cross cultural influences.

[Kubur]

Hi,
Some more images that might help the deliberations.
Regards,
Norman.

Thank you, You changed my mind.
This knife looks old and authentic.
The last thing that I don't understand is the flowers and the decorations.

I will see in the book Balkan arms.
Congrat. Norman, the same knife page 255 in the book previously mentionned.
So your knife should be from the Balkans....
:)

[mariusgmioc]

In my oppinion there is no question about its authenticity as an Ottoman Bichaq. I don't see anything to raise suspicion.

I have myself one with a single piece silver scabbard as it was quite common.

Now, where exactly was it made is another issue. My bet is for Bosnia but it can also be Greece or even Turkey, as both smiths and crafts travelled freely within the Otooman empire. :shrug:

I agree with Battara that it was probably made by a Muslim smith, and at some point the Turkish/Arab/Farsi cartouche was deliberately removed by a Christian Zelot owner.

PS: Regarding Kubur's question about the flowers... well, that's precisely why I supect it was made in Bosnia... or somewhere in the Balkans as opposed to continental Turkey where I would expect diferent type of decorations. :shrug:

PPS: I might be obsessed but I would check the blade for wootz. ;)

[Battara]

Most Balkan blades were not wootz, but I do agree with mariusgmioc. It would be a good idea to check for wootz or a pattern weld of some kind just in case.

[Norman McCormick]

Thanks guys questions answered :) I will look into the pattern welded/wootz thing and let you know. Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion.
My Regards,
Norman.