Planning to make a wrongko

[Johan van Zyl]

Hi Keris friends! It has been some time since I last had the honour of learning from you all in this forum, concerning my two kerisses. I hope you are all still well. I myself have been quite busy, and I am happy to report that I have just finished an article on my Java keris, this time to submit to the quarterly newsletter of my firearms and edged weapons collector's society. This time I did it in my home language, Afrikaans, and that is why I cannot share it with you - although, if one of you can manage the Afrikaans, please request a copy if you want. I would be very willing to have a knowledgeable person scrutinise it! (There's no keris boffin where I live!)

You might recall that I reported that the scabbard of my second keris (the Bugis) was incomplete. I actually only have the original 1850's centre part. I am planning to make the wrongko myself, and I will have to make the buntut as well. There's no other way open for me, because I don't think I will ever, in this country, be able to get hold of original (spare) parts for a Bugis scabbard.
I don't have modern specialist tools for the job, but then, the empu's didn't have specialist tools either! I might just be able to do the job tolerably well. I plan to use four layers of fine quality wood for the wrongko. One of the reasons for this is that it is never my purpose to have the wrongko pose as a genuine part, when viewed by persons without the knowledge that I had made it. The lamination will indicate that it is a recent home-built part, and it might also be a reflection of the laminated nature of the blade that it protects. Part of my plan is that I do not in any way alter the original centre piece. I want to attach the new wrongko and buntut in such a way that the centre piece is unharmed. I have already drawn up a pattern (template) of a typical Bugis scabbard outline with its wrongko.
Please be so kind as to indicate whether you support my plan, and offer me such advice that I might need for the job at hand. I can hardly wait to get started.
Regards, Johan

[Johan van Zyl]

Not receiving a single reply to my request for guidance is a bit of a disappointment, but I am still confident this website is the best place to get keris advice. (I do admit I had the fleeting suspicion that no-one is answering because the notion of a collector planning to make a scabbard himself is to venture into some keris no-go area...! Now I'm sure there's no such problem.)

I am struggling with the first steps in making my Bugis Riau keris scabbard. I have had second thoughts about using the existing antique gandar. It will be easier to fit a new home-made gandar to the home-made wrongko. Perhaps you will agree that a totally home-made wrongko, gandar and buntut is better than to try to incorporate an antique gandar into a home-made scabbard?
At this stage the wrongko is roughly cut out to shape, and the opening has been sculpted to accept the blade as perfectly as I can make it.

I have some questions, if you all will be so kind as to offer advice:
1) I have pictures of a Bugis keris scabbard, that I have used to guide me, but the finer details are not very clear. How do I engrave the wrongko? The only real feature that I see is the groove that runs up each side just off- centre. Besides those grooves, are the remainder of the sides quite flat?
2) I see most Bugis buntuts are shaped like an upside-down little hat with a rim. Will it be correct if I do the new one like that also? Or may I leave out the "rim"?
3) Lastly, do I go for woods with contrasting colour, or will it be more correct to use one kind of dark wood throughout? (The nearly completed wrongko is a dark mahogany.)
I am looking forward to hearing your kind advice! Thank you.

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, the reason nobody has made comment might be because nobody has anything useful to say.

I have made wrongkos, both gambar (top part) and gandar (long bottom part). I did this 50 or so years ago, my products were near enough to the real thing, and probably could not be picked from a job that had been done by a Javanese or Malay maker. However, I always had genuine wrongkos to copy, and I have had wood carving skills from a very young age. For a long time I made rifle stocks, both for myself, and to order.

Tools are not really any sort of problem, conventional chisels, small sharp knives, various scrapers --- usually purpose made from thin steel cut to shape --- sand paper, You cannot make a gandar without a joint unless you have the specialist tool for this, called a segrek, and there is another specialist tool that is like a curved arrow-head sharpened on the edges that is used inside the mouth of the gambar. However, for the 'arrow head' tool you can improvise with chisels, and for the gandar you simply make it in two halves and glue together.

I personally don't like the lamination idea. To my mind it is an insult to the keris itself ( the keris is really only the blade, all dress can be regarded in much the same way as a man's clothes), non-traditional and garish. I do understand your reasoning for using laminated material, but again, from my perspective this line of reasoning is totally irrelevant. If your finished product is good it will enhance the keris, if it is not good it will be replaced at some time in the future. Whether it was made in South Africa or in Jawa or wherever doesn't really matter. My opinion only, and may not be the opinion of some other western based collectors.

You need to make the wrongko so that the pesi is centered above the middle of the gandar. That is ideal, but even wrongkos made in country of origin frequently do not achieve this.

I do not understand what you mean by "engrave the wrongko".

The sides of the Bugis wrongkos that I have seen usually have a very gentle concave surface from the vertical groove towards the back, the surface of the wrongko in front of the groove is curved to blend into the rounded front. The groove itself seems to echo the position of the line of the back of the gandar on a lot of wrongkos.

I'm not particularly interested in Bugis keris, and there are a lot of people who are more familiar than I am with the details of Bugis keris dress, but what I can say is this:- I have a number of Bugis keris and the buntuts all vary a bit. I doubt very much that there is a universal standard for the buntut on a Bugis wrongko,if you have an example, copy it. The problem I used to find with buntuts was getting a neat joint, a butt joint is useless, you need to make a tongue on the end of the gandar and inlet it into the buntut, bit like a mortice & tenon joint but ovoid.

But if you have a usable gandar why not use it? I would.

The better Bugis wrongkos normally use a middling hard wood with strong chatoyancy. You probably will not be able to get anything like this, and for a beginning carver, soft wood is a lot easier to handle than hard wood. Most mahoganies carve well, stay with what you have already started.

[David]

I cannot disagree with anything Alan has said here and agree that people probably had not responded to you since there wasn't much they felt the could say.
I will say that illustrations would be very helpful to instigate discussion here, either with photographs of sarungs you are thinking of emulating or drawings or initial photographs of the sheath you are actually creating.
The stem of the sarung that came with this keris (that you show in another thread) is fairly useless and not of any particular value as is, so i agree with Alan that you might as well make use of it when constructing your new sheath.
I would suggest that you spend quite a lot of time looking at photos from different angles on Bugis style sheaths. This is especially important if you do not have an example in hand if you would like to get the porportions and nuances as close to acceptable as possible. Remember that the Bugis are not limited to one small area of Indonesia and their sheath styles do have subtle differences as you move from one area to another.
If you start posting images of your project i would image you will get more feedback as you progress. ;)

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, I just had a look at the gandar that David mentioned.

It appears to have lost the tongues at the top for attachment to the gambar.

To fix this problem you make a couple tongues out of bambu , inlet the inside of the gandar and glue the new tongues in with 5 minute Araldite. You use bambu because you can make the tongues as thin as you need and there is still strength in the material. Don't forget to score the inletting and the tongue to improve adherence of glue.

On this old gandar it is obvious that the buntut was not attached by use of a tenon on the end of the gandar, but I believe you will find a mortice where a tenon from the buntut fitted into the gandar.

If you have acacia woods available in South Africa, you might find that you can match colour and grain approximately with that material. If not, don't worry about it, finish the one you've started on.

[Jean]

The better Bugis wrongkos normally use a middling hard wood with strong chatoyancy. You probably will not be able to get anything like this, and for a beginning carver, soft wood is a lot easier to handle than hard wood. Most mahoganies carve well, stay with what you have already started.

To me a good Bugis wrongko should have the gambar made from kemuning and the gandar from angsana like this specimen.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Jean true, but you are a connoisseur, our friend Johan is a beginning wood carver with no experience of keris, apart from which, I will stand naked on the Town Hall Steps playing a trumpet if he can source quality exotic woods such as kemuning and angsana in the location where he lives.

At this point I would most gently suggest that whatever he thinks is OK is what he should use.

I can tell you from long, hard experience that working with woods such as the ones in your presented example is not something for beginners, woods like this require a lot of skill and a touch of magic to get to required form and finish.

[Johan van Zyl]

I have read everything you all have written here, with great appreciation. Your comments deserve more attention than I can give it with one reading, so I will ruminate on them so as to be able to further decide on the steps to take in my woodworking project. Yes, Alan, my term "engrave" was very poorly chosen; I should have written "shape" or "sculpt" or better still, "carve".

I have also mistakenly used the word wrongko for the top part of the scabbard. Of course, the entire scabbard is warangka = wrangka = wrongko. I note that Alan uses "gambar" for the top part. This points to another area where I might brush up on my sometimes faulty terminology. Dredging up my voluminous keris notes, I see that I have "gambar" as a Javanese word as well as an Indonesian word, meaning picture or illustration.

Some writers equate the Malayan "sampir" with "wrangka". If by this, reference is made to the boat which the top part of the scabbard is supposed to represent, then this might contribute to misunderstanding. Popular books on the keris seem not to use "gambar" often, but if this is the strictly correct usage for the top part, then that is what I also want to use.

Concerning the boat representation, some writers compare the gambar with the traditional Pattani fishing boat of old, others just call it Chinese. And others simply say it points to the SEA communities as a seafaring people.

Sometimes I find it hard to put my keris notes down...

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, I would suggest if I may that you do not get too involved with terminology. I tend to use Javanese terms when I do not use English, and other terms can apply in each different keris bearing society. It doesn't really matter what you call any of the wrongko parts as long as we all understand what is meant. Speaking only for myself, I'd be perfectly happy to see everybody using only English. Words are used to transfer ideas and the English language is a very good tool for this purpose.

The entire scabbard can be correctly referred to as wrongko (warangka), or just the top cross section (gambar) can be referred to as wrongko. It is not a good idea to argue with anybody about what is and is not correct.

I have a deep and abiding dislike of this endless discussion involving names and classifications in the absence of attached meanings. To my mind the whole collector discussion on keris is often slanted in entirely the wrong direction.

As for that business about wrongkos being inspired by boats and ships, well, I guess anybody can believe what they will.

[Johan van Zyl]

Replying to Alan only, for the moment, I think I might understand your position, however having said that, I find myself asking more questions about this very same thing. Which means that you could possibly help me understand better. Let me put my problem this way: an ardent collector of edged weapons (kerisses or some other traditional weapon), needs to delve into all available facts pertaining to his area of interest, including the history, the tradition, the terminology and the symbolism of the weapon.

Some like to delve deeper than others. Surely a study of names and classification is part of this parcel. I'm sure you do not discourage this. But then I quickly include what you yourself have added: "...and the attached meanings".

So what I think you mean is that a collector can certainly go to great lengths to study the items in his collection, but do it honestly and with due consideration for the symbolism's meaning. I had understood it to be a very good example, to wax lyrical on the boats the gambar is supposed to represent. The garuda of the Bugis keris' pistol grip is another tantalising example.

I also accept that a discussion can arguably sometimes slant in the wrong direction, but my experience does not tell me which these slants may be. I know one must not bring in commercialism here, or disguise kerisses to look older of more valuable.

Interestingly, I have purposely steered away from names and classifcation in the Afrikaans article I wrote on my Javanese keris for submission to my collector society newsletter. I refrained from using a single Javanese or Malayan name for any of the keris components. I also do not even call it a keris, but a kris. I thought it would sound strange to call the hilt an ukiran (for instance) and not meaningfully justify my use of the Javanese word.

I'm progressing with my home-made wrongko (the whole scabbard) and can soon offer a pic or two when the job does not look so disgustingly rough anymore...!

[David]

Replying to Alan only, for the moment, I think I might understand your position, however having said that, I find myself asking more questions about this very same thing. Which means that you could possibly help me understand better. Let me put my problem this way: an ardent collector of edged weapons (kerisses or some other traditional weapon), needs to delve into all available facts pertaining to his area of interest, including the history, the tradition, the terminology and the symbolism of the weapon.

Some like to delve deeper than others. Surely a study of names and classification is part of this parcel. I'm sure you do not discourage this. But then I quickly include what you yourself have added: "...and the attached meanings".

So what I think you mean is that a collector can certainly go to great lengths to study the items in his collection, but do it honestly and with due consideration for the symbolism's meaning. I had understood it to be a very good example, to wax lyrical on the boats the gambar is supposed to represent. The garuda of the Bugis keris' pistol grip is another tantalising example.

I also accept that a discussion can arguably sometimes slant in the wrong direction, but my experience does not tell me which these slants may be. I know one must not bring in commercialism here, or disguise kerisses to look older of more valuable.

Interestingly, I have purposely steered away from names and classifcation in the Afrikaans article I wrote on my Javanese keris for submission to my collector society newsletter. I refrained from using a single Javanese or Malayan name for any of the keris components. I also do not even call it a keris, but a kris. I thought it would sound strange to call the hilt an ukiran (for instance) and not meaningfully justify my use of the Javanese word.

I'm progressing with my home-made wrongko (the whole scabbard) and can soon offer a pic or two when the job does not look so disgustingly rough anymore...!
Frankly Johan, shots of your sheath in progress can be very educational for both you and the viewer (who might be considering a similar course). By the time you show us just the finished product it will be too late to add any helpful suggestions to your process. ;)

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, the way in which you have stated your beliefs is in my experience quite accurate when we are talking about weapon collecting in general, and the attitudes of just about every collector of anything.

Collectors classify, describe, and create records. They are usually very focused on the physical presence of the object, and when they do dig a little deeper and begin to look at the collected object in the context of the society that generated it, that further investigation always relates back to the collected object. At least, this is what I have observed during the time I have held an interest in edged weapons, currently something in excess of 60 years.

I myself did go through this stage, but by about age 20 my interest had narrowed to a focus on only the keris, with a fringe interest in other S. E. Asian weapons. By the time I was in my early forties I was pretty much focused on only the keris in Jawa and Bali, and associated honoured weaponry. Over the last thirty odd years my interest has become more and more focused on societal and cultural elements that set the keris apart from all other weapons. I can no longer be regarded as a "collector" of edged weapons. My attitudes and values have changed, in fact, I probably left actual "collecting" behind a long time ago.

I realise that my standards are not the standards, nor the desires or motivations of most people with an interest in edged weaponry, or of the keris. In this respect, I am the odd man out, not everybody else. But I would like to see more people take the time and make the effort to truly understand what they are dealing with when they begin to take an interest in the keris.

You have taken the first steps in what may or may not become an abiding interest in the keris. Perhaps this wrongko project will be the extent of your interest, you will acquire a few keris, you will do your best to classify and label them, and they will enter your collection alongside an assortment of weapons.

There is nothing wrong with any of this. It is in fact what just about all collectors of weaponry do, and our function in this Forum is to assist people just like you, who have this interest.

But this realisation does not mean that I would not like to see the occasional person take the road less traveled and start to think about what might be behind the physical object that he can hold in his hands.

This is the reason I often throw in off the cuff remarks that might hopefully cause somebody, once in a while, to realise that what he thinks is so, and what many people will tell him is so, is in fact about as wrong as it can be.

[Rick]

Alan,
This fellow came to mind while reading your post.
Of course it's mostly about the forging; but I guess my point is that for Lemmy (iirc) this was his first kris.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5270

[A. G. Maisey]

I'd forgotten that Rick.

You must have a mind like a steel trap.

I've never been able to work well from pictures, whatever I was making, either with wood or metal, I've needed an example. I reckon that this is what gives away the recent Indian creations, the makers work from pictures, they don't have examples of whatever it is they're trying to make.

[Rick]

You must have a mind like a steel trap.

Albeit a somewhat corroded and old one, Alan. ;)

Lemmy made some interesting posts.

I saw a bit of a parallel with our aspiring scabbard maker.:)

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, I speed read the text and as soon as I get a chance I'll go back and read it properly.

Looks like there was some good stuff in it.

[Johan van Zyl]

In reply to David, let me see if I can post a pic or two of my incomplete project. Looks awful in this unkempt state! I promise it will look better after much elbow grease and TLC. Of course, as always, I welcome helpful hints and even flak. You will see I opted to go for the whole wrongko and not just the gambar and buntut.

In reply to Alan, I've always wondered: if I had the financial means to really treat myself when it comes to my edged weapons collection, would I have gone for specialisation or would I have stuck to my current mode of accumulating an interesting but varied assortment of historical weapons? I've never had enough funds to go to town as I would like, (who has??) what with kids at varsity and now grandchildren to help support. So, how such a collection, and my inclination towards it, would have ended up, I cannot tell. Your development as a young collector coincides in certain respects with mine, but the big difference is that in my locality I do not have access to keris items. The two I did fortunately get hold of, that I've reported on, came as a fluke not repeatable. Thinking back, I realise that I've owned, seen, handled, experienced such a wide variety of historical weapons of all kinds that I feel satisfied. I really believe the two extremes (going all-out in a specialised direction and accumulating a wide variety) both have their merits and appeal.

David, my files seem to be too big to attach. Let me see if I can adjust them.

[Johan van Zyl]

I apologise if the images are poor!

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Johan, most people act in the way they are able to act, and that ability to act is dictated by a number of factors, most of which cannot be controlled.

The work you've done so far has got off to a good start.

Is the gandar made in two pieces and glued, or did you work out some way to inlet the blade in the absence of the specific tool used for this? If you did do it as one piece, I'd appreciate it if you let us know how.

The best glue to use for any scabbard is in my opinion Araldite, or some other two part epoxy glue. Normal woodworking glues can set up rust in a blade if they contact it, epoxy adhesives are like plastic and do not cause rust.

[Johan van Zyl]

Thank you once again for your reply; I think we are and have been in agreement. Considering your questions, I am truly hesitant to reply. I am feeling like a Catholic parishioner having to appear before the priest and muttering: "Father, I have sinned!" Or like the time I had to do an oral in front of three Professors. The questions were all about this huge textbook on animal physiology, the contents of which I had virtually memorised. The first question took me by surprise: "Who wrote the book?"

I hereby shamefacedly admit (don't worry; I'm not too serious) that I took two pieces of teak-type wood for the gandar, marked out the outline of the blade on each of them and slowly and carefully made the required hollow with an angle grinder. Every now and then I took the blade and checked if the hollow was deep enough or had the required shape. I was quite surprised that the angle grinder idea worked so well; all it required was a firm, steady hand. I used this same technique with the gambar and it encouraged me that I could actually pull the job off satisfactorilly.

Yes, I did use wood glue; however, the Bugis keris is to be stored outside of its scabbard. (I've always had this thing about storing edged weapons outside of their scabbards.) I once made a storage case for a pristine Luger pistol, using wood glue, and found to my dismay that a light sheen of fine rust had developed within a week. Happily there was no lasting damage and after I aired the box for a few weeks, the problem never came back.

My biggest challenge lies ahead: bringing about the proper dimensions to the gambar. I'm still poring over your description: "a very gentle concave surface from the vertical groove towards the back, the surface of the wrongko in front of the groove is curved to blend into the rounded front". As David put it: "...to make the proportions and nuances as close to acceptable as possible". I must search images taken at an angle, so I can view these necessary nuances. I thank you all once again for your comments.

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, there is nothing at all wrong with a gandar made in two pieces and glued down the sides. It is a quite legitimate way to make a gandar. Yes, one piece , no glue is better, but then again, a complete scabbard, gandar + gambar from a single piece of wood with the wood grain optimised is better again. I doubt that there is anybody working in Jawa now who can do this satisfactorily.

You are very wise with your storage of blades outside scabbards. I've preached this for years. Not many people listen to me. Its more fun to have a "battle-ready , razor sharp weapon to end life" (this is an actual quote from correspondence) hanging on the wall.

I actually use a plastic sleeve over my blades, after oiling. Keris kept in this way have gone for years with no attention at all, and have not shown a skerrick of rust.

I regret I cannot approve of the use of electric tools in fine work, either wood or metal.

Yes, I know:- I'm a dinosaur.

The noise alone interferes with the active meditation that any sort of work of this type should engender. As one of my mentors once said of such noise: "suaranya mengganggu kebatinan aku". (if you use an online translator you'll find "suara" = "voice" but it is also used for the noise, ie "voice" of other things, bells, machinery etc.)

[Johan van Zyl]

I have thankfully made progress with the new gandar and part of the buntut. Please see the pic. The measurements at the point of the white Parker pen are: width: 47 mm (1,85 inch); thickness: 25 mm (1,0 inch). Measurements at the point of the blue Parker: width 42 mm (1,65 inch); thickness 20 mm (0,79 inch). I give these measurements because I am requesting your kind comments, as I do not have a complete Bugis scabbard to copy from. If you think I must take off some more wood to make this gandar typical, please offer advice. The buntut will lose a few millimetres in length when I prepare it for the little flange thingy, which will stick out a bit like a rim.

When I attached the buntut to the gandar, I used a two part epoxy glue. After that hardened, I carefully drilled four holes into the buntut from the end and glued four slender wooden dowels into place. This is to hold the job as securely as I know how. Incidentaly, the original antique piece of gandar has four little pinholes too.

Now the bad news: Having come far with the gambar (you saw the previous pic), I found myself coming up against a brick wall. I knew I could not carry on with the gambar in laminated form! I should have known the four-piece lamination was a lamentably bad idea! Why it sucked so abyssmally is that when I started carving what David called the "nuances", the outer laminations caused haphazard patterns to emerge - too awful for words. So, in disgust I scrapped the gambar. Now I am searching for a nice piece of dark wood to start the gambar afresh.

I will once again make the gambar by lamination, but ONLY in two pieces glued in the centre. I'll have to find wood thick enough for this purpose. Following Alan's advice, I'll use epoxy glue for this.

[Rick]

I think 1.75 inch thick stock should be about right. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

Why make the gambar in two halves Johan?

I do not understand why you would do this.

[Johan van Zyl]

Rick, I'll first reply to Alan, then come to your suggestion.

Alan, I might have a few reasons. Firstly, I have some arthritis in my thumbs, with the result I cannot grip tools as tightly as I used to. I saw with my first failed attempt to fashion a gambar that it was my use of hand-held tools that gave me the most difficulty. Using the angle grinder to open the space for the blade in a two-piece gambar was a cinch - I found I could manage the process well enough. The fit was near perfect. (It was the extra outer laminations that caused the gambar's downfall.) I can duplicate my success in the new gambar if I could use the same technique. I recall what you wrote about the special tools the keris makers used, but in my crude workshop there's no such apparatus. I have been making do with limited means for a long time now. But perhaps that's not the only reason. Maybe it's more important for me to craft a beautiful wrongko by any means available to me, even by unconventional methods, as long as that item gives me satisfaction upon completion. I find the two-piece gambar OK in my book. I hate to perhaps sadden you by saying I don't mind shying away somewhat from the traditional way of making a gambar, but I've got to do what works for me. Now the correct dimensions: that's of utmost importance to me! I need my project to look right.

Rick, you suggest 1,75 inch stock. Thanks, but could I ask that someone who has a Bugis scabbard kindly provide a pic or two showing the gambar edge-on? That's so I can see how to shape the "ship's" "prow" and "stern". I think the prow is rounded, while the stern seems to be rather flat. (Jean posted a nice pic, and thanks, but that was in conventional view and does not show what I need to see.)

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Johan for taking the time to explain your reasons for working as you do.

I understand, and sympathise with you for the difficulties you must endure in completing this project.

[Jean]

Thanks, but could I ask that someone who has a Bugis scabbard kindly provide a pic or two showing the gambar edge-on? That's so I can see how to shape the "ship's" "prow" and "stern". I think the prow is rounded, while the stern seems to be rather flat. (Jean posted a nice pic, and thanks, but that was in conventional view and does not show what I need to see.)

Hello Johan,
Can this pic of an old and traditional sampir from Sulawesi help you?
Regards

[Johan van Zyl]

This is excellent! Thank you, Rick & Jean! What I'm seeing is a gambar that is not so exquisitely shaped than what I had imagined. The single engraved groove (both sides) running up to the top is no more than a straight line: easy to carve. I note the sides running up to the "prow" are quite flat, as are the sides running to the "stern". If this is a acceptable example of a Bugis gambar, I see no reason for me to try and sculpt something more elaborate. Actually, I'm feeling relieved to see these pics - I can go ahead with my tools and limited expertise and expect my gambar to look at least as good.

One more request, if you please: What is the maximum width of the gambar? If I may use ship terms: How wide is the boat in the centre from gunwale to gunwale? This is important for me to know.

Scouring my woodpile for material for a new gambar, I was unfortunate in that I found nothing thick enough I could use. This week I'm going to have to seek out some bits of wood from commercial sources: perhaps Burmese teak, stinkwood or walnut.

For your interest: In 1985 I fashioned buttplates for a .357 Magnum Dakota revolver from Cape buffalo horn. This sixgun is an engraved clone of the Colt Peacemaker of 1873, with a 5 3/4 inch barrel. An article about the making of these buttplates appeared in our gun magazine "Magnum" in that year. Some time afterwards I made buttplates of stinkwood for a Frontier model in .357, and also buttplates of wild olive for a 7 1/2 inch barrelled Uberti single-action. These woods, as well as the buffalo horn, are a pleasure to work with. I will say no more - this was off topic (sorry David) - and please don't think I am blowing my trumpet, I just thought recalling these past projects, in the light of my wrongko project, would be of interest to you all.

[Rick]

the width at that point is just shy of 1 inch, Johan. If you need any other pictures let me know.
Glad to be of assistance with your project.

[Gustav]

Guys, it's of course nothing of great importance, yet Johan's Keris quite clearly is a Riau or Straits piece (its Gandar/Batang included) and has nothing to with Sulawesi. The sheaths shown in this thread are Sulawesi Bugis.

The Straits Sampir are boxier (wider) and could actually be easier to carve - they don't have the bulge.

[David]

Guys, it's of course nothing of great importance, yet Johan's Keris quite clearly is a Riau or Straits piece (its Gandar/Batang included) and has nothing to with Sulawesi. The sheaths shown in this thread are Sulawesi Bugis.

The Straits Sampir are boxier (wider) and could actually be easier to carve - they don't have the bulge.
Gustav, if you (or anyone) have some example to show please post them. I'm sure an illustration would be helpful to Johan. I have no such keris in my own collection at this point. :)

[Gustav]

This one comes near to Johan's Gandar/Batang in shape and also wood characteristics are similar. Unfortunately one tip of Sampir has a damage. Will try to make more pictures of it tomorrow.

But I think, all that is not so important, as it in any case will be a "cross cultural" Keris. The Wrongko just should be a good fit for the blade. The only point for the Riau style Wrongko in this case (besides the style of the blade and the survived fittings) is perhaps the minimally easier understanding of its shape and carving work.

[Johan van Zyl]

I'm obliged, Rick! In considering the work still to be done, I'm fretting a little bit about joining the gandar to the gambar. Like Alan has said, a butt joint on its own is a bad idea. I have considered the correct method kindly explained by Alan, but I'm wondering if I could get a nice solid attachment by drilling a few holes into the gandar, inserting some brass pins and glueing them into place with their ends protruding, and then marking them against the opposite face of the gambar, drilling holes to accept the pins. When the two pieces are brought together for epoxy glueing, the pins are themselves glued and slid into the holes. (The pins needn't be brass, they can be bambu too.)

I am of the opinion that this joint on any keris scabbard is its weakest point. Making the scabbard out of a single piece of wood would certainly make that spot stronger - I recall reading that this has been done; however, I don't recall ever seeing a scabbard without a join line at that point.

That said, my good wife is of the opinion that I sometimes don't recall all that well... :o

[Johan van Zyl]

Thanks, Gustav! I need all the advice I can get. Much obliged.

[kai]

Hello Johan,

Sorry for coming in late!


I have considered the correct method kindly explained by Alan, but I'm wondering if I could get a nice solid attachment by drilling a few holes into the gandar, inserting some brass pins and glueing them into place with their ends protruding, and then marking them against the opposite face of the gambar, drilling holes to accept the pins. When the two pieces are brought together for epoxy glueing, the pins are themselves glued and slid into the holes. (The pins needn't be brass, they can be bambu too.)
Since the gandar is made of rather thin (and traditionally lighter) wood, securing by pins would not really be robust enough for use. Usually the gandar has protruding "lips" which are easy and robust to fix a gambar/sampir to. You could try to attach some replacement on the inside of the gandar which will be easier and more stable to fix the crosspiece to.

I'm with Gustav on stylistic considerations.


I am of the opinion that this joint on any keris scabbard is its weakest point. Making the scabbard out of a single piece of wood would certainly make that spot stronger - I recall reading that this has been done; however, I don't recall ever seeing a scabbard without a join line at that point.
Try a search of this forum for waranka iras - that should give some hits. These are a hell to craft though...

Regards,
Kai

[Jean]

I am of the opinion that this joint on any keris scabbard is its weakest point. Making the scabbard out of a single piece of wood would certainly make that spot stronger - I recall reading that this has been done; however, I don't recall ever seeing a scabbard without a join line at that point.


A scabbard made from a single piece of wood (warangka iras) is commonly used for Javanese or Madurese krisses but rarely if not never for Bugis krisses, one reason being that the wood species used for the gambar and gandar are usually different.... A glued neck joint using integral tenons on the sides of the gandar and inserted into the gambar is very strong.
Regards

[David]

Try a search of this forum for waranka iras - that should give some hits. These are a hell to craft though...
I'm afraid that search will not yield any return Kai. English spellings for Javanese terms vary, but you will get the most hits for that off "warangka iras", a bunch more off "wrongko iras" and a few more still as "wrangka iras". :)

[Gustav]

A scabbard made from a single piece of wood (warangka iras) is commonly used for Javanese or Madurese krisses but rarely if not never for Bugis krisses, one reason being that the wood species used for the gambar and gandar are usually different.... A glued neck joint using integral tenons on the sides of the gandar and inserted into the gambar is very strong.
Regards

Johan actually is wright. For a Gambar/Sampir on Sumatran or Peninsular Kerisses the piece of wood is mostly taken from roots, can be brittle and has a lot of inner tension. The walls at the joint with Gandar/Batang often are only a couple of millimeters thick, exactly at the weakest place. I have seen many and own some sheaths, where Sampir at this place is broken. If you try to adjust the loose pieces, you mostly find them slightly deformed, because of the inner tension of material.

Sorry, the weather wasn't good today to shoot the pictures. Will try tomorrow.

[A. G. Maisey]

What you say is correct Gustav. I've seen many wrongkos where a split has developed in the neck of the gambar, I've also seen many where the tongues of a gandar have broken off. The weakness here is not confined to Bugis/Peninsula wrongkos, nor is it confined to root wood or burl wood, but it occurs in all wrongkos.

In old-time Javanese wrongko joints, the adhesive used was very often button shellac, which is a very weak adhesive. This allowed the adhesive to break before the wood broke, and it is a very simple thing just to heat the button shellac over a candle and refit the gandar, rather than return the whole keris to a m'ranggi to get it repaired.

Basically, it is a weak joint, and if there was enough timber to do so, small dowels would improve the joint.

But there is almost never enough thickness in either the wrongko neck, or the gandar, to use dowels.

So what is done is to overcome this joint weakness in another way. The joint gets covered by a metal collar, or it gets bound with twine, or a pendok is fitted.

[Gustav]

A couple of pictures.

It's exactly 3 cm wide there, where the tang of blade would be, and becomes a little bit wider at the back (Greneng side of blade), with the length of 16,5 cm - all parameters when looked from above.

[Gustav]

Two more.

[Johan van Zyl]

Guys, this is all the help & advice I could ever wish for. I am truly indebted. Thanks to one and all!

A few remarks:
1 - I have read & considered ALL of your kind inputs and I study your pics in detail. If you should find I have here or there not responded to your specific hint and not executed my new wrongko as you suggested, please do not think I did not agree. As I wrote to Alan, I need to do it in the way that works for me. Oftentimes one's work, as it is progresses in the workshop, dictates to one how the next step needs to be taken to ensure a good end product.

2 - Having procured a good enough piece of wood from a friend for the remake (2nd try) of the gambar, I found myself better able to work the wood. You will all know: practice makes perfect. I'm sure if this 2nd try does not work out and I have to do it once again, the 3rd gambar would be even better! Imagine if I had to make a dozen Bugis gambars, how well organised I would be after the last one! :D For this 2nd try I made a cardboard template for the opening in the top of the gambar where the blade is inserted. Although I was quite satisfied with the first try without the template, this second one is just about perfect! I laid the template over the top and scribed its outline on the wood. Then with my new-found expertise with the angle grinder and a motley assortment of special bits in my vertical drill stand, I removed the wood required and was met with a truly beautiful fit.

3 - I'm not really very impressed with the wood I got from the friend, as it is a bit too grainy for my liking. It looks a lot like Bluegum wood to me! But I have come quite far already and can't turn back now. Pics will soon follow!

4 - To be very honest, those tongues and side-mounted tenons some of you described, which go between the gandar & gambar sound terribly hard to carve. :eek: I am intimidated, and I still have to go there... :)

[Johan van Zyl]

I have indicated how reluctant I am to post pre-completion pics of the wrongko project, but David felt that it would be good, so I respect that.

This pic shows how far I have come. The blade goes in deep enough, the fit is satisfactory. The wood is a bit difficult to work with; I have used various tools to reach this stage. From here on it will be carving knives and files, then sandpaper. (The angle grinder's work is done!) :D

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, you might find that scrapers will be useful in shaping the contours.

The typical cabinet scraper is a piece of rectangular steel about 6'X3", but for concave and convex surfaces you can make your own scrapers from pieces of heavy tin can, just cut the needed shape with tin snips.

I use old pocket knives a lot as both carving knives and as scrapers, the castrating blade on 3 blade stock knife makes a very good detail scraper.

Pieces of glass are also useful as scrapers.

[Gustav]

Johan, just one remark regarding the line you have drawn on Gambar/Sampir with pen - if that's the line you later intend to carve - it shouldn't be parallel to the central axis of the whole sheath (the sheath will then look stiff), it should fall a little bit inwards. At which angle - you should esthetically decide it, considering all other angles of outlines of your Sampir, and also hilt of your Keris when sheathed. They all as ensemble should be in a state of a floating harmony.

[A. G. Maisey]

Second attempt.

For comparison.

[Gustav]

Yes, three sheaths in Sulawesi style.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Gustav, they might well be Sulawesi, frankly, I cannot with any certainty distinguish between any of the Bugis scabbard styles. If I look at the Ahmad Ubbe book I see a great variety of styles that have all been identified as "South Sulawesi", or "South Sulawesi + (some other location)" and all given the name of "jonga-jonga". This great variety of styles includes scabbards that I cannot distinguish from the one that you have shown us.

The overall style of all the scabbards that Ahmad Ubbe shows is very similar, but whereas the indented line that on your scabbard tilts in, and on my scabbards is more or less parallel with the rear edge of the gambar, on Ahmad Ubbe's examples is subject to variation in both angle and style.

I would be the first to admit that I have never done any in depth study of Bugis-style keris. I have never visited the Bugis cultural areas, I have never done field research on any keris except Javanese, Madurese and Balinese, so I do not hold any firm opinions on anything to do with Bugis-style keris. I do know as personal friends, several Bugis people, and they have family keris (which again show a range of stylistic variation) but regrettably they know nothing at all about keris.

Because of my lack of knowledge in this regard, I find it somewhere between extremely difficult and impossible to give a precise geographic point of origin for any Bugis style keris.

If I look at the keris shown in Ahmad Ubbe's book, what I see are keris that have been identified by acknowledged authorities in the field of Bugis keris study, as "South Sulawesi", yet those keris vary across the entire span of Bugis-style keris. I am only talking about the keris here, that is, the blade alone, not the dress.

I really do envy those people who can give a precise geographic point of origin for a Bugis-style keris and its dress.

[Johan van Zyl]

More progress has been made (see two pics). The project still looks ugly in its lack of completion, but I hope to remedy that as well as possible with painstaking work. I know that I am not able to live up to the high standards you all have brought forward in your advice and pictures for my benefit, but I think you will come to realise that it was not possible for the likes of me (not an experienced carver, not having a real scabbard to copy) to deliver a product even remotely equal to a true Bugis keris wrongko. For starters, the wood does not even come close to timoho or kemuning. But I know that I am doing what I can and learning all the way. Please note that the the gambar I am wresting from the unyielding wood has got a mind of its own, and although I frequently compare my work to your pics, it is turning out somewhat different! Please forgive me.

[kai]

Hello Johan,

No worries, I'm confident it will look much better, finally!

What you are experiencing is the "spirit of the wood" and an experienced carver would take this into account when selecting and during carving wood. Just try to go with the flow as best as you can... ;)

The upturned stern still needs quite some wood to be removed and also the whole piece could become more thinner, especially just right of the socket for the stem. I'd also make the notch on the left less substantial (if you compare it to the examples, this does run almost the whole length and is fairly shallow groove).

Tropical hardwoods tend to have very large pores and it will be wise to fill them before the final polishing steps. Any surface treatment (boiled linseed oil, shellac, wax) will make the wood looking much nicer than in its current raw state! Is the crosspiece teak?

BTW, don't forget to wear a mask to avoid wood dust (many timbers are proven or suspected to be carcinogenic).

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

Try scrapers and coarse garnet/sand paper Johan, and work in the same direction as the grain. Never work against the grain and keep working across the grain to an absolute bare minimum.

Using a scraper you can model a piece of wood --- or steel for that matter --- a very little bit at a time, and with minimum effort. For detail work with a scraper you can grind a radius onto the end of an old three sided file, this sort of scraper is very useful to get into corners.

It is best to work with the paper by itself, that is, without a rubbing stick or block, at this point in the job. Fold the paper in three so that there is one rough surface against the back of the paper, this prevents the folded paper from moving around. Don't use wet&dry paper, use either genuine garnet paper (which might be difficult to get hold of), or one of the newer coloured sand papers, if I were doing this job I'd probably be using 60/80/100 grit at this point.

[Johan van Zyl]

Once again, excellent advice and hints, and I will investigate & follow them for sure! Things are getting hairy now, and impatient me must be very careful to not upset the project with hasty work. Thank you!

[David]

I have indicated how reluctant I am to post pre-completion pics of the wrongko project, but David felt that it would be good, so I respect that.
Well, perhaps you see now how that suggestion was meant that for your own good, not simply our curiosity. It allows our members to help you adjust and "correct" before your sheath takes its final form. ;)

[Johan van Zyl]

David, my scabbard is taking form on its own, disregarding my strict and demanding supervision! It has a mind of its own. When I lay down my tools upon completion, we will all be able to see what the result was. You might exclaim: "But why does it look like THAT?" Then I'll have to answer: "Beats me!" ;) :shrug:

Kai, you ask what the crosspiece is made of. My "supplier" (bless his motley woodpile) self-assuredly proclaims it to be "saligna". To my knowledge that's wood from the Australian bluegum tree. It's the very devil to carve. I'm now trying to make a scraper a la Alan.

[A. G. Maisey]

Not a good timber for carving Johan.

The up side is that when you complete your wrongko out of that stuff you will be able to carve anything.

One of my floors is made from blue gum parquetry. Its a real good flooring timber.

[Johan van Zyl]

Sigh - yes, the house I grew up in at Simonstown also had such a floor. In Afrikaans we called it a "blokkiesvloer" (block-floor). My mom polished it regularly with an electric Columbus two-brush wax polisher. I'm sure any self-respecting mranggi would have stoked his hearth fire with it. :o

The wood is quite unyielding, and to get it as far as is shown in the two newest pics, took some doing. The pics also show the wide end of the gandar with four bambu pins inserted and epoxied in place. There's going to come a time after the gandar is affixed to the gambar, when the final finishing of both together must take place, but then I'll not be able to use much force, for fear of straining or even breaking the joint. (The wrongko's joint, not my own....!!!) :D

[kai]

Hello Johan,

Congrats for progressing with your feat!

There should be no distinct upper rim: a gentle widening would be perfect, especially towards the ends; the curve of the side surfaces should blend into the upper surface though...

Regards,
Kai

[Jean]

Hello Johan,
This is how the integral tenons/ tongues should look like on the gandar side. Sorry, the piece is not in pristine condition (very old balinese scabbard). This joint was nailed but it should normally be glued only.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, when you get to finishing the glued together wrongko, it would be advisable to make a long, thin wedge to insert down into the gandar, you can then pack the sides of the wedge against the inside of the gambar mouth, this will give you additional support for the finishing process.

[Johan van Zyl]

Jean & Kai, looking once more at your latest pics, I am totally impressed with the craftmanship of the old mranggi's. And I am now in the position to appreciate their skill even more!

Thanks, Alan, your suggestion deserves full consideration - anything to get the joint sturdy. BTW, I googled some pics of the special tools you mentioned earlier: the thin one with the serrated teeth like a miniature ladder, and the other like an arrowhead. Fascinating!

[rasdan]

You have very artistic hands Johan. I doubt I will ever be able to make a wrangka.

It is fun to imagine that this keris will someday continue to travel the world, and probably 100 years from now some keris "specialist" will classify your wrangka to a certain (or probably even a pinpoint) region in Sumatra whereas it is actually from South Africa.. :D Since you have the skills, probably you can come up with a slightly different design of the gambar - just to get those future "specialists" scratching their heads.. :D

[Johan van Zyl]

Rasdan, of course it's not my intention to cause future keris archeological havoc, but I am laughing merrily at the scenario you sketched. You suggest I make the gambar in my own signature style, but let me tell you it's going to come out like that even if I don't mean it. At least I can attest that I have TRIED to follow all the kind pieces of advice the forum guys have proposed til now.

[Johan van Zyl]

I'm sorry to burden you all with more pics of my project so soon (I know there's lots more important stuff going on in our forum members' collections & discussions) but I'm feeling like a kid now, who's just won a big prize. The reason I say this is that I've been dreading the moment of joining the gandar to the gambar. What if I don't do it correctly & accurately and the join looks sloppy? Well, the job went well & I've got a burden off my shoulders! So I'd like to share my method with you, not to brag about my success but because I'm so relieved. I've got new enthusiasm now for the endless sanding procedure to make the join look neat on the outside.

The four pics will show. First I made a few cardboard templates and experimentally clipped holes into them that correspond to the four bambu pins in the gandar. From these I selected the one that fits best. Then I transferred the hole marks onto the end of the gambar with a pencil, following which I drilled pilot holes into the gambar. Of course, I had to secure the gambar on the vertical drill press platform and make sure the drill holes are made perpendicularly into the gambar join face. Then I changed to a bigger drill bit and expanded the pilot holes. You'll see from the 3rd & 4th pics that I have some reason to be elated. The epoxy has not been applied yet, there will come a time for that. Alan's suggestion will also still be put into practice.

I excitedly explained the steps I followed to my 82 year old sister living with us, and she had the following to say: "What a beautiful pink colour the wood is!" Pink indeed.

[rasdan]

You suggest I make the gambar in my own signature style, but let me tell you it's going to come out like that even if I don't mean it.

Actually I think this is part of a natural process going on. It is very probable that a majority of wrangka (and also blade) styles what we currently have throughout the keris region is a result of copying. And copying form copies that also produces different designs along the way whether the maker realise or not. Anyhow thank you for sharing your project with us.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Rasdan you are so right.

Once the keris moves away from a major area of influence we can get enormous variation in dress styles. When it moves into a village environment the dress can sometimes not look anything like the dress that we find in the nearest major town, city or kraton.

Then we get the opinions.

At Candi Panataran near Blitar in East Jawa, there is a relief carving of a man with a keris, and the scabbard of that keris looks exactly like the type of scabbard that we recognise as Bugis now. The keris spread from Jawa to other places, so what did 14th century Javanese scabbards look like?

Yep, copying.

[rasdan]

I totally agree with you Alan. Creativity can go a long way it seems. Below is a picture of a statue that our fellow forumite Gustav uploaded a while ago.

I had forgotten the origin/age of this statue, (can Gustav or other forumite please help me on the origin of this one?) do you think the warangka relief at candi Panataran matches this warangka type Alan? This one looks like it is a sheath for keris buda. Even the top of the gonjo can be seen.

[Gustav]

It's in Museum Nasional in Jakarta, attributed to 15. cent. The proportions of the statue are quite cobby (especially the upper part of body), so it doesn't necessarily tell us about about the true proportions of Keris also. The sheath already looks similar to some older sheaths from European "Kunstkammer" collections.

[A. G. Maisey]

I would hesitate to guess what might be in it Rasdan. It is probably not a photographic representation, and as Gustav has said, it does have some features that echo early scabbards in European collections.

Here are another couple, ladrangans this time, from Candi Sukuh.

[rasdan]

Thank you Gustav and Alan. If the statue in the National Museum is also 15th century we cannot possibly be looking at buda keris on that statue. Another thing that interests me with that one is the selut that it used. Very similar with the ones we see in old bugis keris style.

It is very interesting to see that ladrangan style is already around in Candi Sukuh (15th century I think). I always have thought that ladrangan is a more recent style.

[A. G. Maisey]

Rasdan, I don't think that we can say whether or not the keris in the scabbard on that statue is Buda, however, the fact that it is a 15th century statue does not automatically rule out the form of the keris.

Yes, we refer to keris that we believe came from Pre-Islamic Jawa as "Keris Buda", but that does not mean that Keris Buda were never made and used in later eras. Even Mpu Pauzan made a few keris Buda, and lesser current era makers have also produced them. Similarly, Islam did not just automatically dominate Jawa after the collapse of Majapahit, it took a long time to get almost total domination. Even today, that domination is not complete, the people of the Tengger still cling to the old Pre-Islamic traditions, in fact in some ways the Tengger traditions reflect very early indigenous beliefs.We also have the Badui of Sunda.

Then there is the artistic dictate that the carver may have used an earlier style to reflect what the rest of the subject depicted.

The keris in the scabbard might be a KB, or might not, but we cannot even guess what the carver had in mind, based upon what we can see

[rasdan]

Thanks Alan, I just remembered that you had mentioned somewhere about this. Keris buda that were made after the pre-Islamic times and still produced at current time.

Unlike other talismanic items that are still made to be talismanic, I think current keris Buda were made for the collectors market with just money in mind. For what reason in your opinion that older keris buda (between early Islamic and before keris collectors exists - which is another interesting topic) were made for?

[A. G. Maisey]

Not really for the collector market Rasdan, at least, not in the way that we now think about collecting. People at the top of the tree in Solo from the 1970's through to the not so distant past held the opinion that keris which were made in the style of earlier periods were made as a token of respect to the makers of the past. Thus, a keris of say, Mojo style could be made during the Pajang era, not as an attempt to create a forgery, but as a token of respect to a previous maker.

Pauzan made a number of keris in styles from past eras --- KB's, betoks, Matarams --- it was never an attempt to deceive, it was always homage to past, and also to demonstrate his skill. I even made one keris in a past style, and using material that would place it as a past style. I did this just to show that I could do it.

At the present time some of the most artistic keris of the current era have been made in the KB style.

In respect of the idea "before collectors exist", I just don't know when that might be where keris are concerned. Bear in mind, Javanese noble men had very limited ways in which to store wealth. One of the acceptable ways was to store wealth in keris, this is probably the foundation stone of the Solonese tangguh system. Keris collecting and collectors have been around for a very long time.

[Johan van Zyl]

If I may interrupt Rasdan and Alan's very interesting discussion for a moment, let me show the latest pic of my nearly completed project. What comes to my mind is the following: WYSIWYG = What you see is what you get. It pertains to me, as I cannot at this stage effect any more big changes, and it pertains to the longsuffering forum members who have accompanied me on this "trip", as this wrongko might be disappointing and did not rise to the high expectations you might have had. But if I may say boldly, the wrongko actually looks better than in this poor photograph.

The four pins plus Alan's suggestion has made this epoxied joint very strong and I had no fear of it breaking as I sanded. What now needs to be done, is the application of the varnish. That is to say, if it is your suggestion that I varnish this wood. I recall reading that a Bugis wrongko should be stained red and then varnished (if I recall correctly). If you have more or other advice for me, please let it come. I await your kind final inputs. (Some of the pictures of wrongkos I saw seemed to be oiled or waxed.)

[Rick]

I think shellac will give you a nicer finish.

[kai]

Hello Johan,

That doesn't look bad at all! Certainly not a perfect copy and with some shortcomings for traditionally minded connoisseurs. More than adequate clothes for your keris though - you can certainly be proud having done this with a tough wood which seems to have quite nice figuring, too!

Traditional finish for keris is shellac (no multiple layers needed); make sure to fill the pores with wood dust during the final polishing steps!

The color is probably close to Kemuning limau (yellow kemuning wood); you could leave it as is if you prefer this color.

You could also utilize some spare bits of the same wood for testing whether using boiled linseed oil first and shellac later will make both woods looking even better.

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

That's actually not too bad Johan, you've got the overall form pretty good, it looks like what it is intended to be. We must never forget that even in the societies where these things came from, not everybody was a master.

Your efforts to date are good Johan.

I will offer the following:-

1) you can only have two sorts of lines:- a straight line or a part of a circle; lumps, bumps, wandering lines are definitely not permitted, and that applies to any sort of work of this nature.

2) the heavy ridge that interrupts smooth transition from the face to the top of the piece must go, the face of the wrongko from its lower edge to the top where the surface turns inward should be a smooth curve, in other words a part of a circle --- a very large circle, but a circle just the same. This "part of a circle " idea has been quoted as a dictum for as long as people have made things, but what nobody ever seems to point out is that it is really "parts of circles", for example, in a long curve you can get variation in the progression of the curve, each part of the curve can reflect a different radius, but even so, that curve must be a smooth progression, so that you cannot see the change in radius, the effect is that if the curve is extended it becomes ovoid, rather than circle. You point this out to a purist and you get told that an ovoid reflects a changing circle, or over-lapping circles. Anyway, however you look at it, curves must be smooth.

3) sanding could be taken to about 600 - 800 grit, and then the grain must be raised with steam and polished off with 0000 steel wool, until it does not raise anymore; you want a perfectly polished surface before you apply the finish. A steam iron is easy to use for the steam.

4) the traditional finish for a Javanese wrongko is french polish, usually the Javanese m'ranggis will only use a maximum of 5 or 6 coats, and then rub back with rotten stone, and finish with a particular type of rough leaf, the reason for this is that they believe too many coats detracts from the beauty of the wood grain. This might be true, because of the way they do the job, but a true french polish can enhance wood grain up to, and even beyond, a piano finish of say 16 and upwards coats. You need to apply a french polish in a figure of eight pattern.

5) I do not know what the traditional finish on Bugis and Peninsula wrongkos was. It looks like it might have been shellac, but in my experience old Bugis style wrongkos exhibit a surface that looks very like well patinated polished wood. Newer ones seem to have a pretty crude sort of varnish that sometimes lifts and leaves bare patches:- poor quality material, inexpertly applied and very ugly. OK for a row boat or outside timber, but not for cabinet work or an artisan product, and a wrongko is an artisan product.

6) if you do not want to go the full "traditional" route, Danish Oil or similar, applied with a rubber (fine cotton/linen pad filled with cotton wool) and run up to maybe five coats, polished off between coats with 00 steel wool, and final coat lightly polished off with 0000 steel wool, then waxed, will give a very, very close imitation of a nicely aged traditional finish.

A good finish to any wood is in the preparation Johan. I avoid using fillers if at all possible and use the finish material as the filler, it’s a slower process, but in my opinion gives a much superior job. Do not skimp on the preparation.

[Johan van Zyl]

Thank you, all - you have once again given me much to ponder on. And while I ponder, it is a good hint that I use the time wisely, to carry on even further with the preparation of the wood before shellacking or oiling or whatever needs to be done. I'll practice on spare wood as you suggest.

I have already attached the little rim of the buntut, and it looks cool. Please give me a few days for completion, then I'll try to post a few really nice final pics.

(The Bugis keris seemed very satisfied with its "dress" as I slid it in. So much so that I even had to coax it gently with my thumb to get it out again!)

((Yes, yes, you're right, that's just me bragging! Well, at least the fit is good.))

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, Danish Oil, and similar products are not really like the old time wood finishing oils such as linseed oil. They dry hard and polymerise into a solid state. Don't think that linseed or other ordinary oils can be substituted, you have a lot of adhesive in that wrongko, it should not be exposed to the risk of oil penetration.

[Johan van Zyl]

What I understand from this last post of yours, Alan, is that you're saying boiled linseed oil is better than Danish oil and preferable to use on this wrongko.

It so happens I have a supply of fresh boiled linseed oil and if I can use that, it saves me a lot of searching for the other products. To my knowledge boiled linseed oil is also called "London oil" and very preferable for new rifle stocks of walnut and other fine woods, in the best of stockmaking tradition.

My son and sister were dismayed to read that you want the raised edge removed, because they liked it very much! But I will have to disappoint them and sand down the ridge. Maybe I'll keep just a hint of a ridge. And the semicircular end needs to be thinned down. And the line needs to be thinned also. Me, I'm happy for these final comments and I am going to put in a few more hours.

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, I am saying the complete opposite:-

DO NOT USE LINSEED OIL ON THIS PIECE OF WOODWORK

I apologise if my English was unclear.

This wood is glued together, linseed oil is a penetrating oil, if it penetrates to the glued joints, particularly in the joints in the gandar, those joints are likely to separate.

Use Danish oil

do not use linseed oil

~~~~~~~~~~

I've used linseed oil, both raw and boiled, on rifle stocks, and it gives a good finish, but it will penetrate wood, depending on the type of wood, sometimes quite deeply, it must never be used on wood with glued joints.

[Rick]

If I might chime in, I wouldn't recommend urethane either, not mineral nor water based.

I'd still recommend shellac thinned out with grain alcohol and applied lightly and the surface made smooth between coats. Shellac, being made from insects somehow just seems to look much nicer than a spar varnish or urethane.

I think using shellac gives a better looking finish, especially with a little wax to top it off.

[A. G. Maisey]

I agree with you Rick.

French polish is only the application of a number of coats of shellac, the right way is to do it is with a rubber all the way, but it can be short cut by using a brush first and then finishing with a rubber.

However, for somebody who has never used shellac before, either brushed or used as french polish, it is not really all that easy to get a decent job. That's where Danish oil comes in:- its quick, its easy, with minimum care it gives a very good job, and used the way I've explained, the final appearance is just like a well preserved old wrongko.

No dispute at all that shellac is the best finish, but for a beginner it is not the easiest finish, not by a long shot.

Danish Oil and Scandinavian Oil are similar, and depending on the brand you can get different mixes in the ingredients. Some of these oils have a urethane component, some don't. I actually dislike urethanes, even for floors, on a floor I prefer tung oil, but it is virtually impossible today to get genuine tung oil, the stuff they sell as tung oil has urethanes in it, its just that it behaves like tung oil and looks like tung oil when it dries. Straight urethane I would never use for anything, but where these wood finishing products are concerned, although they might have urethane in them, they behave like a very quick drying oil, and the finish is nothing at all like any urethane that I've ever seen.

Another oil I used to use a lot was Birchwood Casey Stock Oil, it gave a really beautiful finish that looked for all the world like a top London gun finish. It dropped off the market here is Oz for a few years, and I never used it again after it became available again, mostly because I'd pretty much stopped doing high class rifle stocks by the time it appeared again. The couple of expensive stocks I did after that I did with linseed.

[David]

Another oil I used to use a lot was Birchwood Casey Stock Oil, it gave a really beautiful finish that looked for all the world like a top London gun finish. It dropped off the market here is Oz for a few years, and I never used it again after it became available again, mostly because I'd pretty much stopped doing high class rifle stocks by the time it appeared again. The couple of expensive stocks I did after that I did with linseed.
I can second the Birchwood Casey Stock Oil. I've used it with great success. Frankly i haven't tried to look for it here in the States for a while so i don't know if it is still available.

[David]

I just checked and it does still seem to be easily available in numerous location. :)

[Rick]

Well, I will add a caveat about Danish oil; all the woodwork in my house is finished with the stuff and I do like it and can't disagree with Alan about ease of finish.
But..
This is very important: after you have used this product please dispose of any rags soaked in it in a bucket of water, for they may well combust if cautions are not taken.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, you're dead right on the rags Rick. They have warnings all over the tins of the stuff that I use. But that's only a pretty recent thing. I've used all sorts of wood finishing products since I was in my early teens, my father used the stuff before me --- it was his job --- he never mentioned that there was a danger from those used rags, and I never knew about the inherent danger until quite recently.

David yeah, that's the stuff , easy to use, great finish. Its not a problem to get here now, when I said it dropped out of sight for a while I was talking ancient history, I think it maybe about 40 years ago that I was not able to get it. Prior to that I was buying it from a gunsmith, I think he was probably importing it himself, anyway, he died and I couldn't find another source. But these days you can buy the stuff anywhere --- well, any gunshop.

[Johan van Zyl]

I've done a lot of reading up on products that are available here in my neck of the woods, that conform closest to the excellent suggestions you all have been making with regard to my nearly completed Bugis wrongko project. Come Wednesday I will be browsing the hardware shops in my area to get something suitable to do the job. There's a product called Rustins Danish Oil in South Africa, and also a Woodoc product called Antique Wax. One of the specs is that it does not affect glue or joints. It also "builds up an authentic patina on the wood surface". I'll see what I can get.

I've been doing some thinking as a result of this project of mine, and I am getting ideas and notions and insights that could only have come because of my daily involvement with it. I have been truly engrossed in the task and as a consequence more things are making sense to me.

For instance, having succeeded in making a passable fit of Bugis blade to wrongko, I have gone back to my Java keris with its gambar, and I now find that it is inconceivable that that keris was made for that gambar. The fit is not as good as mine (in fact it's quite bad), which must of necessity mean they could not have been made for one another by and old-time m'ranggi. I do believe the poor fit is a dead give-away.

A further conclusion is that the Java ladrang gambar and its current gandar and pendok do not belong to one another. Recall that I wrote in a much earlier thread that I received the two kerisses with their hilts properly in place, but accompanied by a separated gambar and two gandars, one covered with a brass pendok. It was pure luck that I correctly assigned the ladrang gambar to the Java keris and attached the pendok-covered gandar to it, but in reality the difference in quality of the gambar and pendok is too great for them to be a match. (Of course in our thread discussions you all have gently indicated as much, but it comes through strongly to me now.)

I am reassured in that you all have pointed out that mismatches are common and it need not distract from the Java keris and its current dress that I own.

[Johan van Zyl]

Having purchased the special antique wax by Woodoc, conforming closest to your kind advice given so kindly by you all, I have applied two coats and have given the scabbard a good rubbing. Here are some final pics, but I am not satisfied by the quality of the pics, whilst I so wish you could see the deep gloss & highlights that appear on the wood. This does not mean that I am totally chuffed with the choice of wood for the gambar, but there it is now. :o :D Please consider that the scabbard looks better than on the pics!
My wife is waiting in the corridor with a list of work I need to do for her, now that the workshop is available once more - worse luck!

[A. G. Maisey]

It looks pretty OK Johan, not a real bad job at all. Room for improvement, certainly, but for a first attempt from a base of nothing, it comes close to brilliant.

HOWEVER

Wax is used to enhance and protect an already finished surface, it is most definitely not suitable as a finish applied to bare, unsealed, unfinished wood.

If you wish to correctly finish your wrongko you must now remove the wax, resand and whisker, then use Danish Oil or similar, or shellac as Rick has advised.

Wax by itself is NOT a finish.

The manufacturers of the wax you have used say as much, and I would be surprised if this is not also shown on your tin of wax:-

https://www.woodoc.com/en/products/woodoc-antique-wax

[Johan van Zyl]

After reading your post, Alan, I laughed at myself awhile. I admitted to myself for the umpteenth time that - verily - there does not exist a substitute for experience. Oh well, at least I did not do irreversible damage to the scabbard. When my dear wife's jobs are done, I can go the shellac way. (Searching for a Danish oil product was totally fruitless.)

This has been a wonderful experience for me, making the scabbard, and during all this time on this thread I have been the recipient of all your kindness, helpfulness and knowledgeable hints & advice. I thank you!

To end off the thread with a few philosophical words from me, I can say this home-made scabbard, however aesthetically imperfect as you all agree, does add character to my Bugis Riau keris. You will agree that if a person who truly knows kerisses looks at it for the first time, he is sure to remark that this scabbard, although a recent non-Indonesian replacement, was made specifically for this keris. I have a feeling that not very many antique kerisses in collections still have scabbards that they can call their very own.

:D

[A. G. Maisey]

Johan, to remove the wax, try mineral turpentine + a small stiff brush + steel wool. There are special wax removing fluids, but I doubt that you will be able to get any.