"A Passion for Indian Arms" Book Review

[rand]

"A Passion for Indian Arms" -Book Review
by Jens Norlunde

The first thing you notice on this long anticipated book is the quality of the paper, you feel the smoothness of its surface when you first touch it. The second thing you notice is that it is a 9"x12" hefty paper back book, this type binding makes the book open slightly better and makes it a little easier to handle when reading. Then you open the book to see high quality print photo's of Indian arms displayed in a page by page sequence with entire weapon, close-ups of important features, measurements and also references with author, book and page numbers shown.

The arms in this book are extremely well researched and arranged in a systematic sequence that makes it easy to follow time periods for objects discussed. There is a depth of understanding evident in the writing that satisfies even the most advanced research. Anyone with an interest in Indian arms or art will enjoy reading this book and become one of those "go to" reference books. There are 100 copies printed so availability will be limited. My perspective for this book is that there will only be as many great libraries on Indian arms as have a copy of this book.

Well done Jens Norlunde and thank you for creating this well crafted important book!

rand milam

[Jim McDougall]

Beautifully written review and description of Jens' extremely important reference Rand!
Thank you so much for posting this.

[Lee]

I have only had the book for a few days, but I am most pleased to have added it to my library. I already had a number of books on Indian arms, but so very often they remain very general in their descriptions and inadequate in the number and or quality of the illustrations (usually just reflecting publishing standards of the times when they were published rather than author's sloth). Jens' book delights in that he includes multiple detailed images for each item along with a coherent description including details such as dimensions, provenance, references and believable dating. I will also opine that another strength of the book is that of the excellence of the collection it depicts; usually what I will describe mostly as the top end of what was attainable to a very serious modern collector in the last fifty years.

The book starts out with three essays:
How Old is the Katar?
Saadat Khan Bahadur, the First Nawab of Oudh
Royal Katars of Bundi

These are followed by the collection's catalog in four main sections:
Daggers, Katars, Swords and Miscellaneous

Total pages: 368

[mariusgmioc]

Excellent reference book but...

... only 100 copies... :(

[ariel]

I promised to let the Forumites know what I thought about the book and gave myself a weekend. Well, I overestimated myself.....

The more I read it, the more I understand how complex it is. I thought ( naively, as I found after an hour of reading) that I knew enough about the topic just to brush on my enjoyment of Indian arms. But in fact I got stumped at the very beginning.

Jens knows so much that the book is far too short to explain every nuance he takes as a given.

This is not a book for a novice. There are so many hints, insights and hidden nuggets of knowledge that a thorough understanding of the material requires years of immersion into the topic, in addition to careful reading, re-assessment of other items, consulting other sources and just sober acceptance of the fact that the author knows infinitely more than the reader like myself can imagine. How does he attribute and date the weapons? How does he know the meaning of decorations? How does he differentiate between Rajput and Mughal tulwars, not even talking about Deccani ones? The short descriptions give just hints, but I have to study a lot to figure it out....

This is not a book to be casually read and enjoyed for the pictures. It ain't no coffee table album. This book needs to be studied, and studied hard.

It is not a good book. It is a great book: it forces you to learn more.
My hat is off to Jens.

[rand]

This is one of those rare books on Indian arms and armor that you want to read a few pages at a time and really enjoy. I remember when Elgood's book on Islamic Arms and Armor first came out in 1979 and was $175, it was a covered book at that time. Jen's book is that level of scholarship and beyond, with more pages, more photo's and in color, with page after page of pertinent information that will both educate and entertain. And in 2016, it is 120 BPS, thats a bargain.

When this book go's out of print it will be eye opening to see what its value is the.

Can you tell I like this book? And recommend you get a copy or two soon.

rand

[Jim McDougall]

Actually Ariel, you did get the sum of importance of this book, which is actually a catalog of his private collection, and was not intended as a reference book. That is, the very nature of Indian arms, which is indeed wrought with nuance, deep symbolism, and aspects of cultural importance which are held in comprehensive study of the cultures there.

As seen in the post by Jens just this last week, asking for others to join in to discover more on the meanings and symbolism in the floral imagery on tulwars, and for that matter katars as well. The complexity and deeply nuanced nature of these arms has long been too formidable for most collectors and scholars to pursue comprehensively to offer the kind of answers so often asked regarding various weapon forms.

It is a very short run issue as it is as indicated a catalog. However it is of one of the world class collections of Indian arms, specifically tulwars and katars mostly, and these examples will set the benchmark to pace the developing interest in the study of these weapons.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you very much for the kind reviews.

We all discuss/write about a subject from the level where we are at the moment, and so have I. Maybe in five or ten years, if I live that long, I would write some of the texts differently, but I do hope the texts can be read, and understood, by someone on different levels - that was the intention.
If you knowledge is not yet so big, you can read the text, look at the pictures, and say, 'so, that is what a Deccani tulwar looked like, could have looked like, at the time'. If your knowledge is bigger, you may find hints in the texts, which others may not see. Hints, which hopefully will make you take up the challange, and start your own research.

To research Indian weapons can be relatively easy, or it can be very hard work, depending on how deep you will take your research, but when you find bits and pieces the reward is big.

Jens

[ariel]

Folks,
Order this book ASAP while it is still available.

And, I would hate to see it limited to 100 copies. Hopefully, when the existing supply is exhausted, Jens and the publisher can print more and we can spread the word .

It should not be limited to big museums and our own private libraries. It is an indispensable source of explaining and understanding Indian arms.

Perhaps, in the "second edition" Jens could add a chapter on general principles of classification, typology and dating for less sophisticated readers like myself and hundreds more like me. He knows far too much to be allowed not giving a "master class":-)

[Jens Nordlunde]

There will be a slight delay of delivery, as the seller at first did not want to store all the books, and the first delivery is sold, but the next is on its way, and should be ready for delivery within a week.
Jens

[Jerseyman]

Pleased to say that I have my copy, and even happier to say that it is worth every penny. Kudos on the quality of the photography Jens. And as others have already said, better than I ever could, a volume of knowledge that will repay study in depth.

I particularly like Ariel's suggestion - perhaps you might consider writing something along those lines anyway Jens? As a stand-alone essay? I'm sure many of us would be more than interested.

Again, great book - a good job, well done.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Than you very much for the nice reviews, which have surprised me.

When I wanted to make a catalogue, it was meant for a few friends, myself and for the insurance firm, for documentation to prove that the weapos had been in my collection.
Later I was asked to print some for sale as well, and I found that 100 copies would be enough.
Should these 100 copies be sold, I dont know if I will print further copies, but if I do, they will look different, so no one will be in doubt which is the first and which is the second edition.

It was from the start clear to me, that a catalogue should have more than a few lines of text to every weapon, and it was also clear, that showing the whole weapon and the hilt was not enough - details should be shown, as only then the collector/reader can get an idea of the weapon.
You could ask, why this detail and not another one, and I cant give you a very good answer, but the details shown are details, which I find important. To this comes the number of pages, should there have been more details and longer texts, the book would have been very thick, or have to be divided into two volumes.

Ariel and Jersyman have asked for a 'key' to it all. I am afraid that I can't give you a 'key', and even if I could, it may make you more confused. You will have to study further yourself to find it. Like hands on, museums, private collections if possible, reading, miniatures and so on. I am sure you will see the light on the way of your journy, and should it not, you will have learned a lot more about Indian weapons and Indian history.

Jens

[Richard Furrer]

I have been away for bit and very happy to hear of this publication.



Jens,
I look forward to my copy. Do you suggest any other books?
Any other titles I may have missed of late?

Ric

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Ric,

I hope you will like the book when you get it, as it has taken me a very long time to make it.

I dont know of any new books, although I am sure there must be some. I have of lately slowed down buying weapons and books, due to space problems, so we are close to the point where we have to say one book/weapon bought one of the old ones have to go. It is a strange situation to be in, and I dont like it much, but like Jonathan Barrett says - a collector never stops collecting. Clever words I would say.

[Jens Nordlunde]

One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf
Thank you Lee for your help.
Jens

[mariusgmioc]

One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf
Thank you Lee for your help.
Jens

Another reason for a second edition!
;)

That's a magnificent sword. Thank you Jens for sharing it with us.

But isn't the term "Firangi" refering to an Indian made sword with a European blade?! :shrug:

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Marius:-),

Yes it most certainly is, but along the line the name got stuck, even if the blades were of Indian manufacture like this one. If you choose you can also call it something else.
What I would like to point out is, the way the hilt has been decorated. You should be aware of, that many old hilts were redecorated. Thick gold recoration removed, and a koftgari decoration added. Either to get the gold, or due to new fashion. See pp. 77-78 in the catalogue.

[Jim McDougall]

Well noted Marius, technically the term 'firangi' is indicative of an other than Indian blade on one of these swords, actually known in Indian dialects as 'khanda' . To carry it further, these type hilts became known as 'Hindu basket hilts' post European contact and evolved presumably influenced by European style from the old and simpler hilt 'khanda'.

The term firangi does typically allude to a European blade, however, in its more broad use as 'foreign' can refer to any blade from foreign source outside India, including Persia, Middle East etc.

The firangi term has become a colloquialism for these swords among collectors in the broader sense as well, beyond these technicalities.

Sorry Jens, we crossed posts, just saw yours:) and I had not thought of the decoration inclusion as well.

[mariusgmioc]

Thank you Jens and Jim for your explanations!

Well, in the absence of a more accurate term, I can see the logic behind the generalisation of the Firangi term for all swords, with foreign blade or not, displaying a certain shape and characteristics. Yes, maybe the sword can also be called a Khanda, but then the term "Khanda" has become associated with the broader blades with rounded or obtuse angled tip which are iconic for the Sikh... if I am correct.

As with regards of the more recent decoration, I noticed this on many Indian blades. This practice is continued even today and quite often one can find 17 or early 18 century wootz pieces with perfectly intact koftgari decoration, that was added much more recently to increase their appeal.

However, as long as the koftgari is of quality and well executed, I consider this to be a genuine enhancement to the blade since it is part of its cultural heritage and it was traditionally practiced in the past as it is practiced now.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Marius,
In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age.
There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

[mariusgmioc]

Marius,
In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age.
There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

I also have a couple of pieces in this cathegory (with remade/latter addes koftgari). Hope to aquire a few more! :)

[Jens Nordlunde]

I wrote, 'in most cases...', and should have written, 'in many cases...' - sorry.

Maurius I do hope you will get many Indian weapons, buth with original decorations, and with newer ones. Let me also add, that I also hope that you will research them, to find out more about their age and their origin.
Researching can often be hard work, but when you find something, the sun starts shining.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I was looking at the katar (cat. pp. 117-118) and thought it may be hard to see the birds between the cross bars, so I have taken sosme extra pictures showing the birds on the inside of the side guard.

[mariusgmioc]

I was looking at the katar (cat. pp. 117-118) and thought it may be hard to see the birds between the cross bars, so I have taken sosme extra pictures showing the birds on the inside of the side guard.

Thank you Jens for sharing it with us!

Now, this is quite surely the original koftgari. A lovely piece! :)

[Jim McDougall]

Researching can often be hard work, but when you find something, the sun starts shining.[/QUOTE]

Spoken by a true master in researching!!! Very well said Jens:)

[Oliver Pinchot]

I congratulate Jens on a beautiful publication.
His use of a scientific methodology combined with an exceptional eye for this
esthetic results in a work we can all value... and truly learn from.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you to you all for the nice words. I am really glad you like it, as it took years to do, and now that it is done, I can use more time on my big passion - the katars.
It is with Indian weapons like this, point towards a subject, and it have hardly ever been researched. Some have, but there are a lot of research to be done - please start.
Jens

[digenis]

I just received my copy of the book. Excellent in every sense of the word.

[CharlesS]

I just received mine, and am so impressed....not just "eye candy", but there is real substance here!

Thanks Jens!

[Jens Nordlunde]

I know the texts to the two Aydha Katthis in my catalogue could have been longer, but every time I tried to explain something better, the number of pages grew:-(.
Anyway, here are some further explanation's. You dont need to have the catalogue to read the links, as they are quite interesting.
http://muralirvarma.blogspot.ch/2010/05/princely-coorg-and-chikka-veera.html

http://mudiraja.weebly.com/haleri-kodagu-dynasty.html

Cat. pp. 224-225 is dealing with Dodda Veera Rajandra.

Cat. pp. 228-230 is dealing with Lingaraja II.

There is an unpublished article about this subject, going into detail. I have read the article, and hope it will be published soon, as it is very informative.

[rand]

Am curious how many copies have sold, does anyone have a copy numbered higher than 50? Mine is #17. If you don't already have your own personal copy you may want to get one soon.

rand

[Jens Nordlunde]

Rand, the sale is going fine, and they have sold far more than fifty copies. But as I am not a Robert Elgood, and as well known as he is, I think it is all right.
I am glad to say, that The MET, V&A, Royal Armouries, The David Collection in Copenhagen (who has the biggest Islamic collection in Europe), and probably the Danish National museum now all have a copy. So it has been spread from Canada to the Middle East and India.

[Ian]

Am curious how many copies have sold, does anyone have a copy numbered higher than 50? Mine is #17. If you don't already have your own personal copy you may want to get one soon.

randRand,

I received mine last month (an early Xmas present from my wife :D) and it is number 52.

Ian.

[rand]

Jens,

Your knowledge of Islamic arms is at a world class level and you can talk fluently with a depth of knowledge with anyone in the world and they would know that instantly. I give you the learned and earned title of Babur.

Jens Norlunde BBR

Has a nice ring to it.


Ian,

Since you got a gift from your wife of Jens book, I am rethinking the value of marriage in a very positive light.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hello Rand :-) - and thank you for the title :-).
I have tried as much as I could, although I have not studied/researched all the years I have collected, there have been times when I had to stop due to too much work.
I am really glad so many like the book, but on the other hand, I am afraid I will have to disappoint you. As I am not the one knowing all, I do have holes - of which I am not proud - but they are there.
To day I was reading some texts, which a museums curator had written about Indian weapons, and when reading the text, I thought, he cant mean that - impossible. But at the time, I had forgotten, that I concentrate on a relatively small area (far big enough for me), but he will have to have some knowledge over a much bigger area - so it is hardly fair to compair, when you take into consideration all the years I have used on my 'small' area.
None the less, I am really glad you like the book, and for your comments - thank you very much.

Hello Ian, yes now and again it pays to have a wife :-), especially when it comes to pre-Christmas gifts :-) - I do apperciate that she is looking so well after you :-).
I know you have many interests, and knowledge of weapons from many different areas, but I hope that you will like the book all the same.

Babur

[Ian]

Ian,

Since you got a gift from your wife of Jens book, I am rethinking the value of marriage in a very positive light.Rand, there was an element of "programming" prior to her purchase of the book, but she is long suffering and indulges me in my collecting of sharp and pointy things. As long as my collecting does not invade her space, she is happy to let me doodle around with my hobby.

Ian.

[iskender]

very beautiful book, a lot of work,i m very grateful, i informed some of my friends, 4 exemplars are now in switzerland ! Congratulate !!! Iskender

[Jens Nordlunde]

Iskender,
Thank you very much for your post, I tried to send you a PM, but unfortunately without any luck.
Jens

[Jens Nordlunde]

I have had a PM mail from someone, I dont know if he wants me to publish his name, but he has told me that the text on the sword shown on page 341 in the catalogue is wrong.
It should read 'XX CIVIDAL D BELUN XX'. Which means 'The City of Belluno'. Belluno is in south Tirol, in the Dolomits in north Italy. At the time this part of Italy was under the control of Venice.
The town was famed for sword smiths like Andrea Ferrara and Pietro Formicano, and to this comes that they in the Domomits have/had a lot of iron mines.

I am sorry for the error, but I thought my reading of the worn stamp was right - till I was corrected.

[Likhari]

One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf
Thank you Lee for your help.
Jens

Jens where did you get the notion that those brass filled holes have talismanic significance ?

This is obviously a reused Patissa blade and those holes would house rivets to hold the blade and hilt together as in the following example:

[Jens Nordlunde]

The sword shown is not a pattisa blade, or it would have been changed quite a lot.
It is generally accepted that these brass/gold filled holes are of talismanic significance.
One other thing, which I can mention is, that these filled 'holes' are far bigger than the holes for rivets.
You may have a theory about these holes, but I stick to what I have written.

[Likhari]

Thanks for the response Jens.

Could you kindly provide a reference that supports your statement. I have several blades with similar brass or silver filled holes and would be interested in learning more about an alternative view on why they exist.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I am sorry but I dont have the time to find quotes on this subject. So I am afraid you will have to find them yourself, which should not be too difficult.
Have a nice Christmas.

[Likhari]

Even if you had the time Jens I very much doubt that you would have been able to find any reference to support your statement - for the simple reason that none exist.

Drilled holes in Indian blades are not uncommon. When present in groups of three arranged in triangles they might represent a trademark of a manufacturing principality like Sirohi or we can speculate that they might be symbolic representation of the Indian Trinity (Trimurti) in the shape of Brahma (Creator),
Vishnu (Preserver), and Shiva (Destroyer).

When drilled holes are present along the midline of the blade as in your example they are merely the sign of a reused blade. The holes being used to rivet the brace of the original hilt and later filled with metal for aesthetic reasons when a new hilt and a different brace were added.

I wish you a Merry Christmas as well !

[Mercenary]

we can speculate that they might be symbolic representation of the Indian Trinity (Trimurti) in the shape of Brahma (Creator),
Vishnu (Preserver), and Shiva (Destroyer)
Let me step into such an interesting discussion. I have a question. Are there some images of Trimurti in the form of three circles somewhere in the Indian art tradition? I have never met them yet :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[Ian]

I too have been watching this discussion with interest.

Likhari, the example you show in post #42 above would seem to not support your argument. What supporting structure would account for those holes? The elaborate decorative work above the holes would argue that no supporting structure existed, at least none that would obscure the fine chiseling and gold work. Also, they are not simple holes that have been filled with brass, but rather they look like stars with small radiating lines--they seem decorative in nature to my eyes, which would support Jens comment that these have some significance and are perhaps talismanic.

Ian

[Mercenary]

There are a lot of patissa-khanda blades with holes and a little bit of sabre-tulwar blades. Why do you think?
It is need to see in what place of blade these holes located. In the most part it is a place of rivet I think.
Talismanic?

[Mercenary]

Talismanic

[Likhari]

Thank you for your interest Mercenary !

I think the location and the form of the holes is significant to their purpose. When they are present as three in the shape of a triangle they are usually off centered and could have no bracing purpose. In this case they either act as trademarks or have some aniconic symbolism.

Vedic religion encouraged iconography because they believed that God (Ishwar) is formless (Nirguna) and in order to meditate on him we humans, who can only perceive things through our senses, need something which has form (Saguna) therefore they invented deities which represented different aspects of the formless God. The original Vedic triad was Agni, Surya, and Rudra which by Puranic times has metamorphosed into the Trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesha.

The iconography associated with the Trimurti was very precise but there also existed a significant aniconic representation of these deities which served the purpose (as opposed to the iconic) of acting as safeguards against reducing the divine to the level of the human. For example Shiva was represented by the Linga, Vishnu by the Saligrama, and Shakti by the Yoni. Yantras, Chakras, and Swastika would be other examples of the aniconic used in Hindu culture.

The three holes could also represent the three Guṇas (Qualities that make up a living being) - Sattva (Harmony), Rajas ( Passion) and Tamas (Chaos) - also represented by the three points of the Trishula.

They could represent the three main Nadis (Energy channels in the human body) - Ida, Pingala, and Sushumana.

They could also represent the three wheels of the chariot of the Moon - Which could have been of some importance to Chandravanshi Rajputs who claimed descent from the moon.

All this is of course pure speculation on my part. I am just throwing out some of the possibilities. Your guess is as good as mine. :)

Ian the points you raise are valid. The blade in #42 is currently in my possession.
I believe that the current brace with the fancy koftgari is the newest edition (late 19th century) of a number of braces that this old blade has had. The previous braces ran along the middle of the blade and were riveted through the metal filled holes. I agree with you that the shape of the holes is odd but that could have just been because of the shape of the chisel used to make them. The odd positioning of one of the holes could just be because of a different sized brace that was used in the past. I do not believe that they have any aniconic significance on this blade but I could always be wrong. :o

[Mercenary]

So we don't have accurate information about the significance of the three holes except for the trade mark or just simple decoration (if only the owners of these swords was all educated philosophers or theologians) and don't have information about any meanings of other holes in the case of Indian weapons, unlike of Chinese "seven stars" (I attached the photo above)? :shrug:

[ariel]

Under normal circumstances I would agree that a single medial hole, filled or not, in the case of Jens’ sword and the one in #42 is just a remainder of the old brace. I do have a saber with an old European blade and Indo- Muslim ( Tulwar) handle the ricasso of which bears a footprint of an earlier brace of a basket hilt and an unfilled hole for a rivet.


However , in both cases presented here, there is not one but several such plugged holes in tight formations. I am unaware of any old khanda or patissa swords where the brace of the basket handle required so many tightly- grouped rivets at its distal end. One would have to postulate histories of several basket hilts to which these blades were attached. This would be highly unusual.

I think Jens is correct invoking some “talismanic” meaning, the nature of which is unknown to me. But the use of these holes for purely “engineering” purposes
is dubious.

[Battara]

I think Jens is correct invoking some “talismanic” meaning, the nature of which is unknown to me.
This is often true in Moro/Filipino and Indonesian examples. I offer this comparison to bolster the argument from cultures who had contacts with the Indian subcontinent.

[Mercenary]

Are there such "talismanic" on blades of daggers, sabres, on shields, armour or on something else except blades of khanda/patissa? :shrug:

[mariusgmioc]

Very intersting discussion!
At first I was also convinced the filled holes have some talismanic or decorative purpose but... now I'm not so sure anymore. Are there any exmples of such "talismanic" fillings on Tulwar blades for example? I haven't seen any.
I believe that the hypothesis that the holes are simply from previous mountings is very logical and quite plausible. :shrug:

However, in the case of the sword from #42, if the holes are from previous mounts, why are they so close to eachother as this would not serve well to the rigidity of the mounting and may even compromise the strength of the blade. And if they come from different mountings, I would expect one to adapt the mounting to the blade and use the existing holes and not drill another hole so close to an existing one. :shrug:

[Kubur]

Talismanic inscriptions and decorations are very well known (blessing and protection)
In the case presented I do not believe in old rivet holes.
There is another option already mentionned above:

proof marks or factory/quality marks.

You have some brass or even gold fillings on Ottoman blades.
They are always connected to a workshop and demonstrate the skill of the smith and the quality of the blade.

Some of these marks including stamps became talismanic with time.
I think at the gurda marks for example.

Happy new year
Kubur

[Jens Nordlunde]

I do believe that Kubur is right.
If you want to try to undertand some of it, you will have to look for the the influence of other countries.
Sorry but I will have to drop out once more.

[Likhari]

"One would have to postulate histories of several basket hilts to which these blades were attached. This would be highly unusual."

And from where my dear Dr. Barkan did you get the idea that it was unusual for an Indian blade to have multiple hilts during its lifetime ?

High quality blades like the one shown in #42 or the one shown by Jens were considered prized heirlooms in India. Hilts on Indian swords were changed at the slightest whim. Often times a Maharaja would come out with a slight variation of a traditional hilt and all his courtiers were required to use the same kind of hilt on their swords in order to demonstrate their loyalty to the Maharaja.

I am surprised that my fellow forumites are not using Occam's Razor in this discussion and are instead trying to look for exotic reason without being able to provide any reference whatsoever !

[Ian]

Likhari,

I think we can agree that rehilting of Indian swords was a common enough event. However, the drilling of new holes for those rehilts may not have been common. It would be easiest to reuse the old ones, which is what I think Ariel was saying.

Ian.

[Likhari]

Likhari,

I think we can agree that rehilting of Indian swords was a common enough event. However, the drilling of new holes for those rehilts may not have been common. It would be easiest to reuse the old ones, which is what I think Ariel was saying.

Ian.

You make an excellent point Ian but you have to remember that the style of the brace on these straight blades also changed with the hilt and a different style of brace might require some retooling on the blade.

[ariel]

Are there such "talismanic" on blades of daggers, sabres, on shields, armour or on something else except blades of khanda/patissa? :shrug:


Here is an example: Indian tulwar with 2 plugs, one at each end of the blade.
One can wonder about the one close to the handle, but the one near the tip could not be used for a brace:-)

[ariel]

And another one: three plugs close to the tip

[Likhari]

Now we are talking Ariel !

Thanks for posting these examples. Braces were not used for curved tulwars unless they were the heavy Tegha type as shown in the attached example. The presence of a single hole at each end of the blade on post #60 is intriguing. Do they run through the blade to the other side ?

The holes in the tulwar in post #61 are quite common and do not run through the blade. We can speculate that they are decorative, aniconic , or just part of the fullering.