Indian "executioner" Tulwar

[ariel]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6617487340&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I cannot believe it was used for execution (decapitation?) purpose. Executioner swords all over the world had two-handed grips and the T-spine is counterproductive on a purely slashing sword. It would only impede a clean cut-through action of decapitation.
It also does not look like a Kirach.
Strangely, it looks like a monstrous Khyber, but I have never seen Khybers with Tulwar handles and, especially, of these dimensions.
The blade looks like Shams damascus. The handguard ends in a "tiger head" : Tippoo?
What is it?

[Lew]

Ariel

This not an INDIAN TULWAR EXECUTIONERS SWORD it's just a large tulwar hilted salawar yatagan. Tega I thought were used to remove heads? They have very heavy blades and they seem more suited for that job. As far as this blade being made from sham wootz I just can't tell the blade is all scratched up it just maybe a poor cleaning job on the blade?

Lew

[RobT]

ariel,
Figiel (On Damascus Steel) page 69 shows a tulwar hilted Khyber knife with an overall length of 35".
Sincerely,
RobT

[PUFF]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6617487340&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I cannot believe it was used for execution (decapitation?) purpose. Executioner swords all over the world had two-handed grips and the T-spine is counterproductive on a purely slashing sword. It would only impede a clean cut-through action of decapitation.


Thai executioner always use only one-handed Dahb. :D
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/k3.jpg
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/k1.jpg

And here are their "tools". (sorry that the page 's in Thai)
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/index5.html

[Titus Pullo]

Nice link, PUFF! Thanks!

[Jim McDougall]

Very unusual 'hybrid'. Exactly as noted, this is the blade of a Khyber knife (Salawar yatahan) from typically Afridi and associated tribes of Khyber regions. I personally have never seen a tulwar hilt mounted on one of these, however during the British Raj, the armourers there became quite creative. As we have seen in previous posts of the last couple of years these blades have been mounted in the 'Anglo-Afghan' hilts of Afghan army sabres from end of the 19th century, but it seems doubtful such a blade would have been used in India for a tulwar . The 'executioner' denominator is often imaginitive and often appled to any Oriental sword with exaggerated proportioned blades.
Thus, it is possible that this sword may have been put together in the Northwest Frontier sometime in the early 20th century, but it is completely atypical of the swords usually used in those regions.
All the best,
Jim

[BluErf]

Thai executioner always use only one-handed Dahb. :D
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/k3.jpg
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/k1.jpg

And here are their "tools". (sorry that the page 's in Thai)
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/index5.html

I saw the huge cleaver in the webpage. When do the executioners use that cleaver, and when do they use the darb?

[Valjhun]

If we stick with the topic. It is a rehilted khyber. Thoose are not rare at all. In the anglo afgan war, brittains employed indian sepoys for fighting the afgans. Think about some looted tulwar, wich hilt was used for rehilting a khyber blade. I can immagine that this was done frequently during thoose years. Take a look at page 243 of Tirri's book. :)

[Tim Simmons]

These talwar hilted Khyber knives worry me. I am sure weapons were regularly reused and salvaged. I once had one where the tang had a screw thread cut into it and the handle had been tapped, just all a little fishy and to my mind the doubt would far outweigh the cost of this one.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Tim,
That what what I was thinking as well, and although I noted the 'creativity' of the armourers of the Northwest Frontier, most Afghans were rather substantial physically and the typically small tulwar and restrictive tulwar hilts would not have agreed with them. By the same token, the Indian warriors of the region, favored slashing blades of sabres, and these heavy Khyber blades would not have been favored. Therefore, this paradoxical example seems unlikely for use, however it does present a rather attractive appearance for souvenier hunters possibly of the Raj period.
Best regards,
Jim

[ariel]

here is a true Indian Executioner sword from Leeds Armoury ( I was the photographer, and Richard Avedon I am emphatically not!)
Look at the length of the handle permitting two-hand grip in a multitude of positions, smooth blade without any T-spine, and economical design: short and heavy blade.

[Titus Pullo]

I saw the huge cleaver in the webpage. When do the executioners use that cleaver, and when do they use the darb?

I read the writing. I think it's for cutting off the feet so that the rope can be taken off after the person has been excecuted. The rope is there to hold the person down tightly, while the ritual dance is being perform.

[ariel]

You want to tell us that there were different implements for each stage of execution? Why didn't they use the same Dha (Darb, Dahb :) )to cut the rope afterwards? Any ritual significance?

[PUFF]

Nah, not for cutting the rope. But for cleaving the feet.

http://www.correct.go.th/mu/k5.jpghttp://www.correct.go.th/mu/e3.jpg

In some case, the criminal have to wear chain/ring (seems to be hammered in place, no lock, no key). And cutting the feet off seems to be easier than hammering it out.

Dahb 's a weapon and it 's considered to be too high for such purpose. That 's why they use a meat cleaver.

PS: My appologies for being off topic again :)