THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MOROCCAN AND A ZANZIBARI NIMCHA.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

What is the difference between a Weazle and a Stoat?

"The Weazle is (W)easily distinguishable from a Stoat which is (S)toatally different".

Regarding Nimcha of Morocco and Zanzibar it isn't so easy... They look the same and often have virtually identical Hilts.....The blades are difficult to separate...The hilts are both often made of Rhino...So what is the difference?

It occured to me that we often look at the wrong parts to decide which is what?...

My description of the Moroccan style would be; Hilt often Rhino with quillons ending in bud form Ring at base of Hilt sometimes enamel. Blade European sometimes locally struck with a cross stamp and with other marks including moon / moons and other German strikes...Blade sometimes clipped. Scabbard if present ornate sometimes completely decorated in Arabesque and occasionally enamel.. And one more thing... on top of the pommel a stud holding the hilt secure on the blade...a rounded stud usually.

The Zanzibari Nimcha with Nimcha hilt and blade which are almost identical though blade tips are not clipped. Base ring usually not ornately decorated in enamel or arabesques . The Quillons usually ending in open mouthed Yali or serpents..The scabbard if present usually plain and often in the Omani leather style with sworls designed onto the leather.... Occasionally with a Dee Ring. Some, but not all, quillons decorated with rows of dots and back to back R shapes... and on top of the pommels a Turtle!!

Now its your turn... Sort out this lot below !!

[kahnjar1]

Salaams Ibrahiim,
Well it's quiz time so here are my answers, right or wrong.....
Before I give my 2 cents worth there is another feature which (generally) appears on the Zanzibari Nimcha, and that is the down turned hilt. The Moroccan version is usually straight in my experience.
OK so to the answers......
From the top as the pics appear:
Zanzibar
Next 4 pics Moroccan except #023 which I am not sure about.
Zanzibar
Morocco
Zanzibar
Morocco
Last 3 pics Zanzibar
Hope I have the answers in the right order.
Will be interesting top see what others think..........................
Stu

[Kurt]

Good Morning ,

this nimcha is from Algeria,
18 century, perhaps even earlier.

Kurt

[Marcus]

Moroccan style ... on top of the pommel a stud holding the hilt secure on the blade...a rounded stud usually.

The Zanzibari Nimcha ... and on top of the pommels a Turtle!!



Consistent with my examples.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Good Morning ,

this nimcha is from Algeria,
18 century, perhaps even earlier.

Kurt

Is he correct? :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Consistent with my examples.

Is this right?? Any comments? :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:) any more?? :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim,
Well it's quiz time so here are my answers, right or wrong.....
Before I give my 2 cents worth there is another feature which (generally) appears on the Zanzibari Nimcha, and that is the down turned hilt. The Moroccan version is usually straight in my experience.
OK so to the answers......
From the top as the pics appear:
Zanzibar
Next 4 pics Moroccan except #023 which I am not sure about.
Zanzibar
Morocco
Zanzibar
Morocco
Last 3 pics Zanzibar
Hope I have the answers in the right order.
Will be interesting top see what others think..........................
Stu

Here is a proposal that the hilt on Moroccan Nimcha is not so pronounced a turn down in shape...Excellent point well placed... :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:) As a quick warm up simply place the following pictures as to where are they from...and on viewing the big coloured Sri Lasnkan picture of 3 Kastane comment if you think they may be relevant to Nimcha style... :shrug:

[Kurt]

Is he correct? :)

See Anthony North "Islamic Arms"
Figure 20 + 22b

[Kurt]

Is this right?? Any comments? :)


See Anthony North "Islamic Arms"
Figure 20 + 22b

[Kurt]

:) any more?? :)

See Robert Hales " Islamic and Oriental Arms and Armer
Figure 584

[broadaxe]

Good Morning ,

this nimcha is from Algeria,
18 century, perhaps even earlier.

Kurt

I think so, too. This kind is likely to be a corsair sword (according to length and blade shape), minding that most of that region economy at that era was based upon piracy.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Yes the Tobias Blose as well as the Nimcha taken in an encounter in the Mediterranean are both recorded by me in earlier threads. In terms of the Algerian Nimcha I also threw that one in and you are right Algerian though I actually wanted to find a clossonne example which I know I put on Library..or saw in Library...but it doesnt work... Engineers trying to access... :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I think so, too. This kind is likely to be a corsair sword (according to length and blade shape), minding that most of that region economy at that era was based upon piracy.

Yes I recall doing that as a post earlier and I think he ran the opponent through and took his sword...Swashbuckling stuff!! The local economy certainly benefited from piracy although much of it was done on land I understand..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

There are 3 good charts from Butin; It can be seen that the charts are somewhat confusing since some Omani sword weapons are mixed with the wrong chart and the author calls one chart ARABIE...and another MAROC....but the displayed weapons argue with that nomenclature...ie they are bit mixed up . Having said that it is easy to unscramble and Butin takes his place at the top of the Ethnographic weapons specialty where he is greatly admired. :)

There is a separate chart(Diverse Oriental Armes) for what are almost odd men out including Sri Lankan and Yatagan styles and also in the same chart are those Ivory Hilts of Oman and Zanzibar with gold round and leaf shaped decorations. Another key appears however, in the shape of the Omani Scabbard with round sworls crafted into the leather.

Regarding the astute observation by Stu earlier ; It can be seen that the Moroccan form does indeed have a more upright facing pommel and the Zanzibar form more points downward.

Members have noted privately that the Zanzibar type has a ring guard whereas the Moroccan does not... This is not the case; Some Zanzibar Nimcha do have the ring guard but there are those that have none whereas I have never seen a ring guard on Moroccan Nimchas.

As a connected thread see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14143&highlight=oman+zanzibar+yemen which makes the position clearer.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is a good historical reference: Showing the upright facing pommel and the single stud.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Regarding my first post here I set that as a bit of a brain teaser and everyone had a good shot at that with some interesting resulting key factors unearthed ...The Algerian variant is an interesting conundrum as telling these apart from the Moroccan is well near impossible ... It has ornate silver filigree and a more woven tapestry in the scabbard ...Personally I thought the use of clossonne was more the Algerian style but the point is it is too close ...they are virtually identical so far as I can tell...

As for the others it can be seen that the main differences are the Stud versus the Turtle and as Stu pointed out the more upright hilt and pommel appears on the Moroccan style whilst the Zanzibari type is more pointed downwards....Full marks all round ...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

OK HERES ANOTHER PUZZLE... WHAT IS THIS....ON THE LEFT SHOWING TWO FACES OF A SWORD...? :shrug: On second thoughts I realize I cannot leave it as a simple question since it carries the almost visible description Pallasch!! Having said that what is the relationship with Pallasch and Nimcha? Is the name from Pala(Turkish) or is it simply a result of a continuous morphing nature of whats in a word?... Is it Venitian, Genoan or Italian? The blade is hugely broad and clearly for chopping and slashing. Has the style moved through the Med to such countries as Morocco with seagoing nations, Pirates, merchants or how ...? if this is the case...how did the form slide down the Red Sea or across the desert to the Indian Ocean? Somehow this form has affected several distinctly different regions...and beyond... :shrug:

What about the second picture with the sword with brasswork on the hilt?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On plate 32 above see exhibit 1004 by Butin who expressly places this on the separate chart. This is what can be described as a VIP version since it is Ivory decorated in gold. In my view this is a classic VIP style though it is interesting in that post 1 of http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15325 shows it carried by a Hareem Palace guard.
Goldwork on an African comb (below) has been discussed by me before as being similar to that hilt decoration. In addition note that the leatherwork contains sworls (circles) in the leather which is very much an Omani decorative technique. It is accepted that this work could have been done by an Omani artesan working in Zanzibar /the close Zanj region or Oman. Note the upper scabbard ring is almost identical to another shown at http://cmmilitaryantiques.com/gallery.php?arid=5311 also a Zanzibari Nimcha.

I have a general couple of questions to which I do not know the answer...How did such a similar hilt develop in Morocco and in Zanzibar and who made that happen?

To give reason to my indicator of turtle hilt decoration atop the pommel I place below one of the common turtles in the region and the device itself on a Zanzibar Nimcha.

[Rick]

Do you have any idea why the turtle should have particular significance to the Zanzibari peoples Iibrahim?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hawksbill turtles (Eretmochelys imbricata) have traditionally been hunted around Zanzibar for their attractive shells, and Green turtles (Chelonia mydas) for their meat..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Another marker Guide to the difference in the two Nimcha Hilt Types is the knuckle Guard on the Moroccan style is at right angles or L shaped ....whilst the Zanzibari form is S shaped or rounded as it joins the cross guard. :shrug: (not on all Zanzibari variants)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

That Nimcha in the book a little earlier at #19... A reference on it suggests;

Quote" Pallasch; Culture: blade - Italian, Milan (with Ottoman decorations), mount - Ottoman, vessel (Hilt?) - Morocco
Dated: 16th Century
Material and Technique: blade of iron, forged, etched and engraved grip of iron, wood, horn
Measurement: total length of 107.7cm; blade 93.9cm; weight 1817g

Elector Christian I of Saxony received the saber as a gift in 1587 by Francesco I de ‘Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany. This weapon is one in many respects to the peculiarities of the Turkish Chamber. First and foremost, the impressive appearance is mentioned, which is caused by the massive, ornate edged blade.

This saber is made of very different work areas. While the vessel(hilt?) is from Morocco and the typical form there corresponds with strongly angled work and s-shaped quillons, the blade is an Italian work. She has been a chosen, and was crowned Pi marked accordingly in Milan. (what is Pi ?)

The blade was then decorated in the Orient. The etched and partly engraved decoration consists of medallions with stripes and scrolls, flowers and leaves. The middle stripe is a Spanish inscription found in a secret script-like character.

How did this strange mixture of different origins (come about) is not yet clear. Could possibly play in the events following the reconquest of Spain by 1492. Many Spanish Jews left the country after the conquest of Granada and moved some of North Africa in the dominion of the Ottomans."Unquote.

Source & Copyright: Staatliche Kunstsammlungen Dresden.

Although I am not sure what some of this translation means and I have placed in brackets and underlined ... I am sure you get the general drift...and whilst it forms a large part of the puzzle yet also gives us many clues in this regard.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Looking back through Library... I note the sword below as a European Blade on a Zanzibari Hilt...The Hilt decorated in Marjan (Coral) , The blade apparently supplied / made by Schimmelbusch Quote" The blade of this Zanzibari sword is European in origin, perhaps German. Zanzibari swords are famous for their incorporation of European blades and Arab handles. The stars and crescent moon on the blade may be the mark of a family of German swordmakers by the name of Schimmelbusch, but the intricate designs on the handle reflect Zanzibari decorative metalworking traditions as well".Unquote.

In terms of this type of sword I consider the two ages during which they arrived in Morocco and Zanzibar...What I mean is when did they arrive? .. Did the difference in arrival date (if there is one) alter the form of the hilt? Reason suggests that the first style arrived across the Mediterranean from the east (Italian or Ottoman) transmitting style as far west as Morocco. From there it went to London and other countries...

On passing please note the sword in question as having 7 stars and a crescent moon. The Scabbard is Omani. (Note the sworls!) Please See http://badger.uvm.edu/omeka/exhibits/show/anth2502010/item/574

It occurred to me that swords in Zanzibar were put together from delivered parts later than its Moroccan sister....Fixed in a workshop on Zanzibar not imported whole ...but from the various components supplied by trade as;

1. Blades from Europe/ Hadramaut/ India/ etc.
2. Hilts and guards from Hadramaut, India or locally made.
3. Scabbards from a local Omani Artesan or Muscat.
4. The Turtle added locally as a Zanzibari insignia.
5. Gold decoration from the Zanj as on the comb.
6. Rhino and Ivory from the Omani slavers and Ivory/Rhino merchants...
7. Coral provided locally/Omani artesans...Often seen on Omani Jewelery.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Worth noting is that the Moroccan Nimcha is normally worn on a sling; over the shoulder style baldric...as at # 17. :shrug:

The Moroccan may also carry a lot of Arabic script on the blade...as below;

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Rare Artwork from the Orientalist stable.... :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A strange sword with a hilt inspired by...?

[TVV]

What about this sword: Zanzibar, Yemen or the Maghreb?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Likely Zanzibar despite the cross guard although there are crossguards on some Nimcha at Butins plate 30 see charts at this thread.... We can not see the top of the pommel so not sure if the Turtle figure is intact but the hilt with a downward tilt to the pommel is certainly present. This is in the classic Butin form and shows the cross guard style. Zanzibar.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

So where is this form from and is the hilt related to the Somalian dagger hilt shown...? The Billao; A billao (Somali: billaawe), also known as a belawa, is a horn-hilted Somali shortsword. It served most notably as a close-quarters weapon in the Dervish State, at the turn of the 20th century.
The dagger has a double-edged, leaf-shaped, asymmetrical blade and a three-pronged pommel. One-pronged pommels with the metal tang protruding out from the center of the hilt

I place a Yemeni Nimcha variant on white background with silver in the Hilt for further comparison...Are they related?

The indications are that the project weapon is typical for a Saudia Arabian style with an all silvered hilt. Plate 30 Butin shows 1009 as being the same weapon which he simply calls Arabian.

[TVV]

Ibrahim, I personally am not so sure about the connection between the prongs on Hadramaut saifs and Somalian billaos. The three pronged billaos appear to be later, from the first half of the 20th century when Somalia was an Italian colony. The older, ivory hilted billaos I have only seen with one prong. Do you have a picture of a 3-pronged, older billao?

Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

I must admit that the similarity between these Somali and Hadhramati hilts is compelling, and the proximity with Arab trade routes as well adds to such plausibility. It is good food for thought deserving more examination and interesting idea looking into the number of prongs on the earlier billao.

Another interesting perspective is the prevalence of the trilobite pommel features, which include the 'karabela' type hilts (termed 'hawks head in Yemen I believe), as well as it seems other cultural forms such as the Tibetan hilt ke tri. In Tibet, one of the hilts attributed to Kham has three projections instead of the trilobite shape of the ke tri. I know this is only the popularly held term for the familiar Tibetan hilts but cannot think of the proper term (check LaRocca). In the attached image only two prongs appear but the third is missing (the spot where attached is visible).

It would seem that the three, whether trimurti or trinity and other views does occur symbolically in numbers of cases whether in actual elements or features of swords or markings etc. and these are often convergent in instance .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I must admit that the similarity between these Somali and Hadhramati hilts is compelling, and the proximity with Arab trade routes as well adds to such plausibility. It is good food for thought deserving more examination and interesting idea looking into the number of prongs on the earlier billao.

Another interesting perspective is the prevalence of the trilobite pommel features, which include the 'karabela' type hilts (termed 'hawks head in Yemen I believe), as well as it seems other cultural forms such as the Tibetan hilt ke tri. In Tibet, one of the hilts attributed to Kham has three projections instead of the trilobite shape of the ke tri. I know this is only the popularly held term for the familiar Tibetan hilts but cannot think of the proper term (check LaRocca). In the attached image only two prongs appear but the third is missing (the spot where attached is visible).

It would seem that the three, whether trimurti or trinity and other views does occur symbolically in numbers of cases whether in actual elements or features of swords or markings etc. and these are often convergent in instance .


Hello Jim, Thank you for your post; The 3 prong device on the pommel may well be something Talismanic as we know three dots appears as some sort of protection...It could be a reference to the three religions Islam Christianity and Judaism or a similar three in one protector as you point out (the fleur de lys is associated with that also) as I believe are the 3 bead structure on the Islamic bead string placed to prevent evil climbing up .On the hawkshead I'm afraid that was probably me... as not knowing Karabela at the time I wrongly stuck that name on those hilts that resembled hawks heads...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahim, I personally am not so sure about the connection between the prongs on Hadramaut saifs and Somalian billaos. The three pronged billaos appear to be later, from the first half of the 20th century when Somalia was an Italian colony. The older, ivory hilted billaos I have only seen with one prong. Do you have a picture of a 3-pronged, older billao?

Teodor

Fair enough and perhaps I should have pointed out that it may not be clear which way the design flowed. Is it possible that the Somali dagger style with pronged hilt took that form from the Nimcha shown?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On tracing back through Forum I spotted this picture below...What is the relationship if any with this weapon and the Nimcha ? :)
Note Genoa bite marks all down the backblade and the hint of something Zoomorphic in the hilt with an eye...Is this a horse head? Note the appearance of a nock at the top of the grip and the knuckle guard. This weapon is said to influence another; the Falceta Iberian weapon...Comments please?


See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11617

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Whilst members may be thinking about the question above I have noted the following website details of a Moroccan Nimcha...(I find it interesting and worthy of a note in the margin that the report refers to This large saber or nimcha at the very beginning whilst we have a suggestion earlier that Nimcha meant half sword. Perhaps this can be discussed later? In other words does Nimcha mean something else?)

please see http://www.musee-delacroix.fr/en/the-collection/objects-from-north-africa/saber-nimcha from which I Quote"

This large saber or nimcha-a masculine accessory and symbol of tribe and rank-is one of the objects that Delacroix brought back from his trip to Morocco in 1832. The splendid weapons, musical instruments, textiles, and leather and ceramic items owned by the Musée Delacroix came from the collection of Charles Cournault (1815 - 1904), an Orientalist painter to whom Delacroix bequeathed most of his North African souvenirs.


The blade of the saber has three grooves. The manufacturer’s mark is perhaps visible under the hilt whose three quillons are decorated with a rosette motif inlaid with gold and silver threads in a cartouche. A floral and plant design runs around a copper ring encircling the hilt, and there is a beautiful marbled effect on the horn handle. The top of the leather scabbard is encircled by a velvet band on a leather background, onto which the straps for holding or hanging the saber are attached. Its lower part has a gold decoration featuring two floral elements, edged with a net design.
Delacroix’s trip to Morocco

In 1832, Eugène Delacroix traveled to Morocco with the diplomatic delegation of the Comte de Mornay, ambassador extraordinary from King Louis-Philippe to Sultan Moulay Abd-el-Rahman. His trip lasted from January to July, during which time he traveled from Tangiers to Meknes, visiting Algeria and southern Spain on his journey home. Delacroix was so delighted by his discovery of this place "made for painters" with its dazzling light and magical colors that between his return and his death he produced some 80 paintings with North African themes (plus countless sketches). His Oriental scenes, fantasias, military exercises, and portraits of Arabs include scrupulously rendered costumes and accessories: this type of nimcha saber with its hooked pommel, for example, is clearly recognizable near the Soldiers Sleeping in a Guardroom (watercolor, private collection), or hanging behind Chief Mohammed Ben Abu in Delacroix’s portraits of him in watercolor (private collection) and etching (Musée Delacroix)".Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I touched on the interesting puzzle surrounding the use of a Persian/Baluch word and thus the reflection of that word in describing the Moroccan Regional and Zanzibar Regional sword generally known as The Nimcha.
This thread shows similarities and differences in the weapon used in two distinctly different regions yet carrying the same name. The only actual real common denominator is the name! The blade, Hilt, Quillons, Guard and even how it is suspended plus the decoration and Scabbard are different. It is as if some one from each region copied a sword but added all the regional variety of style to their own version. In essence I suspect that is the message from the famous Butin Charts of Nimcha from these different locations.

Nimcha means half sword... It could mean short sword...but from Persian / Baluchi who had no contact between Zanzibar and Morocco~ or did they? Both Burton and Tipu Tib used Baluchi mercenaries as guards into and out of central Africa...in doing so the cross Saharan trade routes were at their beckoning thus the name/general style may have spread to Moroccan and North African neighbors of Morocco...or direct.

Another simple explanation cites the mispronunciation of another weapon...The Shamshiir...(Shamshir~ Nimcha) Anything is possible...

Could the name Nimcha mean something else such as sharp on one edge? Half Sword...Generally that could satisfy the same name being used on each sword...

Nimcha also means half jacket...actually a waistcoat commonly worn by Baluchis but is a word from the Uzbekistan region and straddling central Asia.

Is it possible that the sword's name spread because it was carried by Baluchi mercenaries (Nimcha; waistcoat wearers) employed by Omani rulers including Saiid bin Sultan all down the Zanj, Zanzibar, and in the service of the Sultans before and after Saiid's Reign in 1804 to 1856... and focused on Zanzibar from about 1830. See http://www.indiana.edu/~ctild/CentralAsianCultureVisualDictionary/Accessories and note Nimcha waistcoat picture...on a website looking at Turkic and Iranian dialect and lexicography..Baluchistan straddles two countries ...Iran and Pakistan.

The previous post notes that the sword is referred to as a large saber ...when if the word is meant to describe small(half) swords how can it be also be described as meaning large?

Given that it seems Morocco developed a sword of this nature before Zanzibar with that particular similar grip to the hilt; Which way did influence flow? Who could have transmitted style/form to the Indian Ocean? Actually there are many... There were big battle fleets in the Indian Ocean from Ottoman, Mameluke, Venetian and Portuguese in the 15th/16thC any one of which could be responsible for this transmission or War as a key pointer. It could have bounced off Indian designers and on to Zanzibar through trade...via any of the important sea trader families in the Indian Ocean. The same can be said about Omani influence; already illustrated by the sword at post #1 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15325 showing how the weapon had diffused to African countries probably through Zanzibar at least as far as Tunisia !!

The exact form of technical transfer may never be pinpointed, however, the common denominator appears to be Trade...and from what appears to be an original design concocted in the Mediterranean basin for which a strong indicator may be Italian ( Genoa may well be in the frame ) The other design indicator of the huge chopping blade is at #19 and #24 which points to a mixed stable of blade decorators and is difficult to tie down to a specific country but somewhere in the Central or Eastern Mediterranean...Italian or Ottoman?

Finally, is it plausible that the sword originally began in East Mediterranean centres diffused West to North African countries and South down the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean Zanzibar Regions but that its name rebounded from there to encompass the Moroccan Regional style absorbing the name Nimcha through some link with The Baluchi Mercenaries of Oman/Zanj and by trans North African trade routes? I therefor suggest War and Trade as being primary movers in this regard.

Your comments are invited..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Nimcha... Did the word mean sword of the men in waistcoats( Nimcha)...The Baluch.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14143&page=4&pp=30 where there are good relevant parts of the thread worth considering supporting the essential concepts delivered here. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21926 on #14 where this additional detail posted by Ariel; Nimcha may be translated most accurately as "half" or "little half" , kind of Enlglish " shorty".
Per H.W. Bellew's "The races of Afghanistan" people of mixed ethnic origin or newly-converted Muslims whose adherence to Islam is still doubtful are referred as "nimchas".

Does the word Nimcha therefor mean those people (or the sword they carry) who are sort of half converts...or doubtful new converts... An interesting theory...noted. This would point to Baluchis from that region working as Mercenaries on the Zanj I assume.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I discovered a French view of the Nimcha more in terms of how it transferred around the Mediterranean than its Southern sister...viz; Quote''
Le Nimcha du Maghreb
Présentation du Nimcha par Jean-François Teulière
Le sabre des cavaliers du monde Arabe

Le nimcha est appelé « Saïf »dans le monde arabe. C’est un terme commun aux langues sémitiques (araméen) et à l’arabe.En arabe il désigne une lame courbe et en hébreu une lame droite. C’est le sabre des cavaliers du monde Arabe, dont la diffusion fut assurée par les conquêtes ainsi que par les relations commerciales entre les pays sous l’influence ou la domination orientale: Arabie, Yémen, Oman et sa dépendance Zanzibar, Maghreb et Espagne Maure.
Pour certains, la poignée à quillons et garde de main serait d’origine italienne ou plus précisément aurait été connue des Arabes vers les 15 ème – 16 ème siècles via le commerce Gênois. Cf.: « Robert Elgood Arms – 1994 »."Unquote.

I suspect that no one other than European sword collectors actually called this weapon a Nimcha and as the above passage suggests they called it a Saif...In the same way today people call pretty well everything that is a sword...Saif. here in Oman. I also agree that Oriental influence had a good deal to play in transmission of technology in the old days and commerce and war had a big hand in it...In that case it is virtually certain to have passed through certain conduits on its way and Genoa has to be considered...

Many weapons from the Genoan stable effected Moroccan style...It cannot be ruled out. It is an odd feeling however since I appear to be back at the startline in a race which feels it has been run to its finishing point but somehow I hear the order from Mr Starter... On your marks! ready! set !... Go!!! :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

By way of a summary here are the differences between A Moroccan and a Zanzibari Nimcha. It is obvious that the name is the same but any deeper into the reason is a conundrum and possibly a false impression simply applied and popularised by European sword collectors. On the other hand tracking through the possibilities certainly raises the awareness not least the post by Oliver Pinchot at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21926 where he notes the relationship with an article of clothing viz;

Quote"The term "Salawar" (also rendered salwar and shalvar,) was applied to these weapons because of its similarity to a type of breeches common in N. India, which are quite broad at the waist and taper continuously to the ankle. The analogy with the form of the blade is obvious.''Unquote.

and the bells ring here where I note the potential link to the waistcoat often worn by Baluch males (called a Nimcha) and where it is known they were the mercenaries on the Zanj to Saaid Sultan..AKA Saaid the Great, who among other battles these famous Baluch mercenaries and Persian Naval units wrestled Fort Jesus from the Portuguese and in addition were the guards with Burton and Speke into Central Africa...and potentially transmitters of the weapons name Nimcha to North Africa..I thus acknowledge the very interesting information and include it here.

Moroccan.
1. Stud on the pommel top holding or anchoring the hilt and blade. Invariably round but occasionally an elongated (one inch x a quarter inch) metal strip.
2. No D Guard.
3. Arabesque decoration to guard Quillons and/or pommel base ring in silver or gold. (Often mirrored by the scabbard decor) Occasionally clossoned or enamel.
4. Pommel turned only to about 90 degrees perhaps for a larger hand.
5. Knuckle Guard with distinct right angle or elbow bend occasionally with a small round inscribed stud shape about half way along.
6. Blade occasionally lavishly inscribed in silver or gold in Arabic.
7. Finials to guard and quillons ending in bud style.
8. Occasional two prong/piton incorporation to guard.
9. Blades either short almost cutlass form or longer, slender sometimes clipped. Many displaying Genoa bite marks often called Hogs Back or Eye Lash marks.
10. Scabbard with worked silver or gold decoration lavishly applied in Clossone, gold or silver arranged to hang from a shoulder strap/ Baldric.


Zanzibari.
1. Turtle shape on top of Pommel holding or anchoring the hilt and blade.
2. Occasional D Guard.
3. Plain guard and base ring without arabesque decoration on a plain hilt often in Rhino or Ivory and in some a gold roundel and leaf pattern decorative style apparently the same as on some East African combs. The hilts in either Rhino or Ivory often display at the "horses mouth" an apparent geometrical OVO shaped decorative style.
4. Pommel more turned than 90 degrees perhaps for a smaller hand.
5. Knuckle guard rounded. Plain; never enameled.
6. Blade usually either plain or of the Red Sea variety but not lavishly done in Arabic.
7. Finials usually of the dragon or Yali / Makara form sometimes with a capital R and dots to the Quilons and Knuckle Guard ends but not all as some finials are small budded form.
8. Occasional D Guards marked like the Knuckle Guard with a substantial X in the mid section of each however this weapon can appear with none of the complexity of guards/quilons/knuckle guard etc but with the simple cross guard only. (Butin Charts refer)
9. Blades never clipped, invariably cutlass short form.
10. Scabbards simple; often with Omani decoration of Swirls or circles to leather. Occasionally with silver furniture and chape. This weapon worn on the waist.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I cross reference a post here as; NIMCHA ... The Word.
From
Salaams Ariel... You are correct in several of your pointers to the peculiar name Nimcha apparently applied to the sword of Morocco and its sister from Zanzibar. The name used by locals in both regions is Sayf/Saif/Seyf. There are many questions or possibilities as to how the term Nimcha entered the equation not least that an enterprising sword collector "expert" gave the name and it stuck! because it "looked" the same.

Look at the previous post where it can be seen that apart from "a similar" hand grip the entire sword arrangement in both cases is chalk and cheese!
Regarding the Name Nimcha it is worth listing the possible reasons all of which hold water...for the Name; Nimcha;

1. Nim means half in Persian and Baluch. The connotation attached to the sword could mean half sword as applied also to half convert...meaning those half converts to Islam working among the Baluch on the Zanj in other words "the sword of the half converts".

2. The word Nimcha may mean blink of an eye to Moroccan people. ( This may be regional/ colloquial since they say blink of your eye in Morocco like this; ghamad ainak. )

3a. We know that military dress in the sub continent remained almost ancient until recently thus tie ups between apparel and weapons is common(and must be of antiquity) as per Oliver Pinchot's revelation about Salawar and the Pantaloon style of dress known in those regions and the dagger/sword. The sword being also wide at the throat and narrow at the tip...like the pants!

3b. In this case in referring to Nimcha, it is the waistcoat of Persian, Baluch and central Asian form for men... Uzbekistan has the word Nimcha meaning waistcoat...Half Jacket. The waistcoat worn by Baluchi Mercenaries may be a reference to those worn on the Zanj ~ Mercenaries of the Omani Sultans especially Saaid bin Sultan before and after his death in 1856. (ruled 1804 - 1856) In this case Nimcha being the sword worn by the Half Jackets...Nimcha.

4. The great explorers technically at least, may have transmitted the word from Zanzibar/Zanj to Central Africa since they accompanied Tipu Tib the great slave captain and explorers Burton and Speke thus linking into trans Saharan trade routes (Ivory/ Slaves/ Rhino) was likely.

5. Last but not least the whats in a word phenomena is entirely plausible though I admire the potential in the clothing link after all; naming parts or weapons after clothes also occurred with the hilt of the great Moroccan dagger One of the Khoumiya which took its name from A French Policemans Hat!! and there are many more.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Lets see who can nail this one first ...Full marks for a complete assessment... :shrug: additional marks if you put in a bibliography from forum !!! 3 references will suffice !!! :shrug:

[ariel]

You want a "complete assessment"?
A long version or a short one?
OK, here is the long one :

" This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! "

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Completely correct Ariel. No Points though; you copied it!... :)

[VANDOO]

I AM ENJOYING THIS POST AS IT MAKES A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THIS TYPE OF SWORD. PERHAPS NOT ALL QUESTIONS CAN BE ANSWERED BUT MANY FACTS, OLD ARTICLES AND REFRENCES, THOUGHTS AND EXAMPLES ARE GATHERED HERE FOR EASIER ACCESS. AFTER ALL THAT IS BASICALLY ALL A REFERENCE IS. AS TO THE LAST ITEM THOUGH THERE IS LITTLE REMAINING OF THE SWORD AND ITS GLORY DAYS ARE LONG OVER. FOR A POOR MAN A LITTLE GLUE OR DUCT TAPE AND THIS PARROT THOUGH NO LONGER BEAUTIFUL COULD STILL PECK. :D

[kronckew]

'tis but a scratch,
it's just a flesh wound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG1P8MQS1cU

a little bondo, sanding, polishing, and it's back guarding the bridge. gaffer (duck) tape works well with bondo.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I AM ENJOYING THIS POST AS IT MAKES A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THIS TYPE OF SWORD. PERHAPS NOT ALL QUESTIONS CAN BE ANSWERED BUT MANY FACTS, OLD ARTICLES AND REFRENCES, THOUGHTS AND EXAMPLES ARE GATHERED HERE FOR EASIER ACCESS. AFTER ALL THAT IS BASICALLY ALL A REFERENCE IS. AS TO THE LAST ITEM THOUGH THERE IS LITTLE REMAINING OF THE SWORD AND ITS GLORY DAYS ARE LONG OVER. FOR A POOR MAN A LITTLE GLUE OR DUCT TAPE AND THIS PARROT THOUGH NO LONGER BEAUTIFUL COULD STILL PECK. :D


THANK YOU VANDOO, I am glad you like the thread and the twists and turns not least in the Nimcha name conundrum. Absolutely agreed on all the questions not yet answered which perhaps underlines the detective work still to be completed...however, I hope that this foundation thread and others at Library can assist in uncovering more as we roll forward. Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello all. OK ... its a wreck... I know that and chose it for that reason... Now can anyone nail its origin ? For them as can do it with your eyes shut an extra mark, however, here is an opportunity for those with a little less knowledge to put this one away... :shrug:

[VANDOO]

THE BLADE IS LIKE THE BLADE ON THE MOROCCAN NIMCHA PICTURED WITH ITS SCABBARD , IN THE NEXT PICTURE ABOVE THIS POST. THE BROKEN BLADE LENGTH IS GOOD FOR A DAGGER OR BAYONET. THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE GUARD ARE UNKNOWN BUT PERHAPS MIGHT BE FOR ATTACHING AS A BAYONET. :confused: THE HORN MAY BE RHINO AND MAY HAVE BEEN MODIFIED OR JUST SHOWING DETERIORATION AND DAMAGED. :confused: IF IT WAS EVER MODIFIED AS A BAYONET IT HAS COME APART SINCE THEN AND PERHAPS THERE ARE PARTS MISSING. THATS MY BEST GUESS

[kahnjar1]

My guess based on the qillons and the typical "stud" fixing of the tang, is that it is/was a Moroccan Nimcha.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

My guess based on the qillons and the typical "stud" fixing of the tang, is that it is/was a Moroccan Nimcha.
Stu

Yes Stu, thank you...that's the clincher, or one of them ... The stud invariably on the Moroccan pommel top but never on the Zanzibari...The recycled sword now a dagger almost showing how the tang joins the stud.

You can just see the 90 degree turn in the hilt and the Arabesque pattern on the guard backing up the Moroccan provenance. The hilt which is probably Rhino looks like it has been in water...and the termite damage or borer holes have almost totally destroyed it.

What I find interesting about the guard is the two pronged pitons which are sort of halfway to D guard but quilon like in their likely defence style ...again never seen on Zanzibari but on Moroccan; Yes! in a thread by Cathey as I recall.

The blade snapped; in this case apparently European and it would not surprise me to find Genoa bite marks under the oxidation...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THE BLADE IS LIKE THE BLADE ON THE MOROCCAN NIMCHA PICTURED WITH ITS SCABBARD , IN THE NEXT PICTURE ABOVE THIS POST. THE BROKEN BLADE LENGTH IS GOOD FOR A DAGGER OR BAYONET. THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE GUARD ARE UNKNOWN BUT PERHAPS MIGHT BE FOR ATTACHING AS A BAYONET. :confused: THE HORN MAY BE RHINO AND MAY HAVE BEEN MODIFIED OR JUST SHOWING DETERIORATION AND DAMAGED. :confused: IF IT WAS EVER MODIFIED AS A BAYONET IT HAS COME APART SINCE THEN AND PERHAPS THERE ARE PARTS MISSING. THATS MY BEST GUESS


Yes indeed it is good to compare or reference the self same thread here where many pointers can be seen about this weapon...Although I cannot see the bayonet quite...except that some potential is there as the grip appears eroded in two notches?...hmmm... I like that idea ...If only they could talk!!! It certainly forms the well practised technique of re using broken blades as daggers. Certainly it appears as Rhino but badly erroded; likely some sort of termite...

Correct on Morocco as the type and as well as arabesque evidence on the quilons it has the stud on top of the pommel to verify that. Thank you Vandoo.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

From the Vandoo stable a series of apparent corsair weapons of the mark Nimcha which I have never seen before and in particular beautifully adorned in coral. (Coral is not uncommon in the Indian Ocean but is also often used on the North African coast..

Where to start? ...

Hilt. A Tortoise shell covered Hilt in the tradition of the Algerian form...(I think we rightly group this type alongside the Moroccan?) I place another example of tortoise shell Algerian form horizontally and on its left another example of coral but on a Zanzibari Nimcha.
Hilt further decorated with blueish coloured Enamel or Clossone to the grip. Arabesque platework ( brass or gilded) comprising geometry and split-palmette work around an apparent central eye (missing) surrounded by a floral six segmented design; reflection perhaps to what is on the blade at the throat...a six pointed star. If this is an eye what is the animal it portrays? ... Perhaps The Horse ? Perhaps The Sea Horse? Or is this for a wrist loop?
The hilt probably Rhino further enhanced by Tortoise shell and coral with 5 square shots of silver down one flank and perhaps a similarly Talsimanic number on the other...interspersed with coral-stone dots...some white...mainly red.

Blade ...The six pointed star of Soloman... See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon Both sides of the European blade with crosses and tiny moon strikes in the same throat region..If this is an eye what is the animal it portrays? ... Perhaps The Horse ? Perhaps The Sea Horse? A heavy backblade and 4 fullers reaching down much of the blade. Is this blade a Kilij form...?

Finials on Quilons and Knuckle guard decorated by budded ends with beautiful silver crowns each topped by a tiny coral stone; A clear reflector of the seagoing sword form.

The base ring Silver. Decorated in Floral Arabesque but with the tiny prayer-like niche missing on one side but half present on the other ( See the horizontal example for a complete one on that weapon) Perhaps these niches form 4 prongs of a crown...the base ring.

Knuckle Guard. An interesting ships bow or perhaps a sort of sea monster on the outward face of the Knuckleguard?..The guard in this style not exactly commencing with an elbow 90 degree bend but a tight bend and not the soft S turn of its Indian Ocean sister ..

Pommel; Clad in tiny silver plates almost identical to the Horizontal example ~ the plates reminiscent of minute Moroccan prayer rugs overlapping and decorated in floral motifs. The typical stud pointing identifies it as North African...Moroccan/ Algerian. The Pommel turned at about 90 degrees giving a bigger grip and typically so turned...as are all Nimcha from Moroccan style.

My interpretation based mainly upon this thread using the clues of the single stud on the pommel and the 90 degree turn to the pommel...and decor... illustrates a fine Moroccan / Algerian Rhino and Tortoise hilted Nimcha with Clossone Coral and Silver decoration on a European blade likely to be Italian (Genoa) displaying Star of Soloman and other typical North African astrological devices..

Thanks to Vandoo for the pictures.

Please feel free to comment...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

For a quick warm up...what ARE THESE ? :shrug: MASTERCLASS WIZARD STANDARD ONE MINUTE... NORMAL MEMBERS 5 MINUTES.

[kronckew]

swords ;)

[VANDOO]

I THINK OF THE LONG NIMCHA AS SWORDS TO BE USED ON HORSEBACK PRIMARILY BUT OF COURSE THEY CAN BE USED ON FOOT OR ON SHIPS AS WELL. ALL EXAMPLES PICTURED ABOVE FIT THE HORSEMAN'S SWORD TYPE
EXCEPT THE LAST PICTURE. IT IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A WEDDING NIMCHA AND IS LARGELY USED AT MARRIAGE CEREMONIES TODAY AND IS DAGGER TO SHORT SWORD IN SIZE. ALL THE ONES I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN FAIRLY RECENT SAY WW1 TO PRESENT BUT OLDER FORMS MAY HAVE BEEN WEAPONS :confused: MOST I HAVE SEEN WERE ATTRIBUTED TO ALGERIA BUT LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN SURROUNDING COUNTRIES.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I THINK OF THE LONG NIMCHA AS SWORDS TO BE USED ON HORSEBACK PRIMARILY BUT OF COURSE THEY CAN BE USED ON FOOT OR ON SHIPS AS WELL. ALL EXAMPLES PICTURED ABOVE FIT THE HORSEMAN'S SWORD TYPE
EXCEPT THE LAST PICTURE. IT IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A WEDDING NIMCHA AND IS LARGELY USED AT MARRIAGE CEREMONIES TODAY AND IS DAGGER TO SHORT SWORD IN SIZE. ALL THE ONES I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN FAIRLY RECENT SAY WW1 TO PRESENT BUT OLDER FORMS MAY HAVE BEEN WEAPONS :confused: MOST I HAVE SEEN WERE ATTRIBUTED TO ALGERIA BUT LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN SURROUNDING COUNTRIES.

Good point VANDOO ~ It is apparent that two blade length styles sub divide the Magrebi form and that ships short blades and long mounted cavalry are there. I have seen artwork of these long blades on warriors on horseback and camel...It is a fact that Magreb means the cluster of countries like Morocco and Algeria where these forms are found. The former preferred by Corsairs
(Corsairs= Moriscos after feeing from Spain in the early 1600s. )

(These so called wedding daggers are interesting also known as Fleessa or Algerian Nimcha Daggers..Personally I also see them as somewhat ineffective being rather spindley and weak in the quillon region..Whilst the hilts follow a Nimcha style I cannot be sure of their original provenance...perhaps more comments can be forthcoming from others as it looks like a latecomer to the style.)

Below a further look at artwork down the ages at some different Magrebi Nimcha blade-lengths... As I see it there are three Magrebi types viz;

1.The huge meaty Embassadorial form.
2.The Short Corsair form.
3.The Long Cavalry form...

Comments please...?

[VANDOO]

I MAY BE REACHING A BIT FAR HERE BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE LONG CURVED SWORDS EVOLVED IN COUNTRIES AND SOCIETY'S WHERE HORSES WERE USED FOR WAR. TO SHOW YOU WERE A SUCCESSFUL , POWERFUL MAN YOU NEEDED MANY THINGS. SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT WERE A GOOD WAR HORSE, GOOD WEAPONS, GOOD CLOTHES AND PERHAPS ARMOR AND OF COURSE A WELL FITTED OUT GUARD OR ARMY. MUCH ATTENTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PAID TO ESTABLISHING THIS IMAGE AND IT IS NECESSARY FOR A LEADER TO HAVE THESE THINGS TO LEAD MAKE ALLIES AND INTIMIDATE ENEMY'S. THIS HAS LED TO THE BREEDING OF THE ARABIAN HORSES, BEAUTIFUL WORKMANSHIP ON SADDLES, WEAPONS, CLOTHES AND ART. FIGHTING FROM HORSEBACK MADE A LONGER SWORD WITH A CURVE PRACTICAL AS THE CURVE ALLOWED A DRAW CUT FROM ABOVE ON HORSE BACK RATHER THAN A CHOP OR THRUST. THE CURVED BLADE BOTH INSIDE CURVE AS IN THE KOPESH AND OUTSIDE IN SAIF, IS FOUND ON MANY OTHER SWORDS HAVING NO CONNECTION TO HORSEMEN. BUT I WONDER WHERE AND WHY THE OUTSIDE CURVE EVOLVED ORIGINALLY AS IT IS IDEAL FOR SLICING DOWNWARD AT SPEED AS ON HORSEBACK.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I MAY BE REACHING A BIT FAR HERE BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE LONG CURVED SWORDS EVOLVED IN COUNTRIES AND SOCIETY'S WHERE HORSES WERE USED FOR WAR. TO SHOW YOU WERE A SUCCESSFUL , POWERFUL MAN YOU NEEDED MANY THINGS. SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT WERE A GOOD WAR HORSE, GOOD WEAPONS, GOOD CLOTHES AND PERHAPS ARMOR AND OF COURSE A WELL FITTED OUT GUARD OR ARMY. MUCH ATTENTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PAID TO ESTABLISHING THIS IMAGE AND IT IS NECESSARY FOR A LEADER TO HAVE THESE THINGS TO LEAD MAKE ALLIES AND INTIMIDATE ENEMY'S. THIS HAS LED TO THE BREEDING OF THE ARABIAN HORSES, BEAUTIFUL WORKMANSHIP ON SADDLES, WEAPONS, CLOTHES AND ART. FIGHTING FROM HORSEBACK MADE A LONGER SWORD WITH A CURVE PRACTICAL AS THE CURVE ALLOWED A DRAW CUT FROM ABOVE ON HORSE BACK RATHER THAN A CHOP OR THRUST. THE CURVED BLADE BOTH INSIDE CURVE AS IN THE KOPESH AND OUTSIDE IN SAIF, IS FOUND ON MANY OTHER SWORDS HAVING NO CONNECTION TO HORSEMEN. BUT I WONDER WHERE AND WHY THE OUTSIDE CURVE EVOLVED ORIGINALLY AS IT IS IDEAL FOR SLICING DOWNWARD AT SPEED AS ON HORSEBACK.


Certainly this is true of Morocco regarding horses ...and there's a great addition to the subject in Saddles and Horses in the region. I did a thread on Camels previously and noted how much the Horse held sway as an important combat vehicle up til even recently... and extensively in WW1 and before.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

"And now for something completely different" ...

What is this?

It took me hours to arrive at a half believable post on how this man was interned in the New Caledonian Islands off North East Australia by the French from Anjoun in the Grand Comoros Islands off the South East coast of Africa. ....

From gravure tirée de l'Illustration, 1891,
le sultan Said Athmann, chef des rebelles d'Anjoun,
interné en Nouvelle-Calédonie.

But anyway...Grainy photo...Easy Question... What is the sword? :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The question may be obscure in that perhaps I should have said why? Why this sword? Of course it is one of those Other oriental swords at plate XXX11 of Butin on #16 and more the style we associate with Zanzibar/Oman. Michael Backman at http://www.michaelbackmanltd.com/65.html goes on to note on the decorative form of his East African comb from which the decorative style appears to be linked to this Zanzibari Sword. ...This hilt was therefor likely made in Zanzibar as it was a collecting centre for Ivory and the scabbard form is usually Oman..decorated in leather with Omani style circles. Omani artisans were in Zanzibar as part of the flow of traders/artesans from Oman as Zanzibar flourished.

Quote "
This fine and extremely rare ivory comb is a beautiful example of Zanzibar craftsmanship. Cut from a single piece of ivory, it has sixteen prongs and is inlaid on both sides with chased gold plaques. There are no losses either to the gold or the ivory. It is of an unusual form and has in the past been attributed to SriLanka, but the gold panels and the form of the ivory can now be seen to related to the ivory and gold work used on Omani-influenced sword hilts that were manufactured in Zanzibar in the eighteenth century."Unquote

The more I think about it the more I suspect the correct name for these weapons is Zanzibari...although good reason indicates their use in a broad belt across the Indian Ocean. Perhaps looking across the entire Indian Ocean basin evidence is there of the Zanzibari Nimcha form (of which there are many) on the outer Islands, Comores, Off the Zanj coast, Yemen , Oman, and including Sri Lankan style shown at Butins plate XXX11.

On the Kastana I stumble when it comes to the flimsy blade and at the quillons which are from the Vagra as opposed to any sword association... however, since when was blade style important when signifying the blade of a Nimcha? Perhaps more leeway could be extended to the Vagra form since on earlier weapons perhaps they didn't have any...? It seems to me that more than a passing note may be applied to Butin at this important plate XXX11 and other members may wish to comment...

To assist I place again the Butin Plate XXX11 the Gold Comb decoration now related to Zanzibari Hilts and the typical Omani Scabbard with circle or swirl decoration.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I just realized this one below clearly in the Sri Lankan style with the silver hilt has an inverted knuckle guard.

I note there are contradictions on Butin as one example has no Knuckleguard at all whilst the other is formed correctly...(1005/ 893 on plate XXX11) though they are slightly different interpretations of the hilt; serpent/lion.

Was Butin, therefor, pointing to a more Indian Ocean Basin interpretation of the Zanzibari Nimcha?

One question that is burning a hole in the page and to which I have no answer thus I throw it open to Forum is this... Looking at Sri Lankan style below; Is it possible that the Zanzibari (Indian Ocean Basin) form evolved directly from this Kastane type...creating a sword with quillons as per the European style and adapting the basic serpent/ lion /horse? hilt. and virtually identical knuckle guard and grip geometry?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Scabbard Furniture on The Zanzibari Nimcha.

Please view swords 1004 and 1007 on Butins chart XXX11. Below..

In what looks like an imported item the scabbard upper ring furniture is interesting and can be seen on many examples of the Zanzibari Nimcha style. Could this be an import from one of the sword making centres either in Yemen at Hadramaut or Hyderabad in India; famous for making mercenary swords?

It appears, in my view, to be a copy or direct import from the Ottoman Kilij stable. In the centre rectangle local work appears in the form of a golden square section which may be from local gold decorating workshops of the Golden Comb style...however, simple applied gold squares are an Omani jewellery technique seen below ...and I show an Omani workshop in Zanzibar where this could have easily been decorated and applied.

In conclusion this is the final technical piece regarding sword parts of the Zanzibari Nimcha and following the Omani artisan technique of sub contracting work out to local workshops much as they do today with Khanjars and swords and where several specialists can be reached and the work completed and put together as one piece. It would be not unusual for one craftsman to complete the leather scabbard whilst another did the silver adornment, another the leather decoration, another the hilt carving, and another the goldwork...final fixture and fitting etc. I suggest that this would all have been quite normal in Zanzibar in those days and that the name Zanzibari Nimcha or Saif is probably correct since in this way the entire weapon may have been made there. Several craftsmen perhaps from Oman, Zanzibar, Sri Lanka and else where may have been responsible for the final product..and numerous others; Ivory traders, merchants and dealers may have also been involved.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I should add that the Zanzibari Nimcha is not known by that name in Zanzibar or Oman~ The local name is Habashi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

More backup illustrating the furniture on the scabbard; Note the play on the figure 5 dots on the bare wood scabbard ... :shrug:

[kronckew]

found this interesting video of the moroccan sport of tbourida

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHdKvm_ztMM

search youtube on 'tbourida' for even more

it shows some of the teams wearing 'nimcha' (and 'saif') sabres, harnessed across their backs, hilt down by the hip and scabbard chape sticking up over their right shoulder. some cool weapons...

tbourida 'accessories':

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

found this interesting video of the moroccan sport of tbourida

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHdKvm_ztMM

search youtube on 'tbourida' for even more

it shows some of the teams wearing 'nimcha' (and 'saif') sabres, harnessed across their backs, hilt down by the hip and scabbard chape sticking up over their right shoulder. some cool weapons...

tbourida 'accessories':

Salaams Kronkew~ and thank you for the excellent detail regarding the Tbourida . These Barb horses famous for centuries in Morocco are amazing...see https://sg.news.yahoo.com/tradition-art-blend-morocco-tbourida-cavalry-charges-002401450.html

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Placing this weapon for library from The JF Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum;

Accession Number: MO 63.1513 Collection:
Gifts from Heads of State
Title: Nimcha Sword and Sheath Maker: Maker unknown Date(s) of Materials: 19th century Place Made: Morocco Medium: Silver, wood, steel Dimensions: 42" Description: Sword with hilt and silver knuckle guard, which is formed by a long turned down quillon. The grip is composed of fluted wood. The sheath is covered with chased silver plating. The steel blade is slightly curved. Gifter: Moulay Hamid Alaoui, Pacha of Kenitra, Morocco Copyright Status: Donated to the United States Digital Identifier: JFKSG-MO-1963-1513 Subject(s):
Gifts
Heads of state

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Tipu Sultan The Lion of Mysore had among his many weapons in his private armoury this Moroccan Nimcha with probably a blade from the Caucasus according to the report in French at http://www.tessier-sarrou.com/html/fiche.jsp?id=3884216&np=1&lng=fr&npp=100&ordre=&aff=5&r=

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An item not always noted in Moroccan swords is the strap or Baldric on which it hangs off the shoulder seen here and at #61; This was followed by Muslim soldiers because their leader, The Prophet, wore his sword in the same fashion.

See fig 1 at https://books.google.com.om/books?id=chVfUm2Hz3MC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=moroccan+baldric&source=bl&ots=-YdDnxg1JX&sig=WdyEAWbSQ3Bs8TV_hN60UsvnI1Q&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=moroccan%20baldric&f=false

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

During the early Islamic years, the Arabs sheathed their weapons in baldrics. The use of sword and baldric was consciously abandoned by the Abbasid caliph al-Mutawakkil (847-861) in favor of the saber and belt. But the use of sword and baldric seems to have retained a ceremonial and religious significance. For example, the Zangid ruler Nur ad-Din (1146-74) was anxious to demonstrate that he was a pious traditionalist, searching out the old methods preferred by the Prophet. Consequently, among his reforms he re-adopted the custom of wearing a sword suspended from a baldric. His successor Salah ad-Din (1138-1193), known in the west as Saladin, did the same and it is noteworthy that he was buried with his sword, he took it with him to Paradise.


The Baldric in the high mount was used by the Prophet and that was why the invaders from the Moroccan Berber side used it in the same way.
So I was pondering the question of Zanzibari and Moroccan Nimchas.. and in particular the key element of the knuckle-guard which you will recall is completely different with a broad right angle at the base of the Moroccan and a bulbous rounded knuckle-guard bend at the base in the Zanzibar example.

In the Moroccan. See the artwork below. The requirement was for a shoulder strap Baldric mounting so that when riding into battle the sword was firmly held up on the left rib cage area under the left arm region...and flat against the body formed by the horsehead broad grip and the big right angled knuckleguard and quillons so the weapon was firm and safe... In this position the rider could operate his long barrel gun and gallop hard onwards... The sword til needed was safe against his body.
When dismounted, See Artwork below, he could retain that carry or opt for the long drag position placing the hilt about between his hip and knee where his draw hand could reach.. Thus they used the Baldric in its two styles.
Insofar as the Pommel top; a decorated or simple button was used or even a decorative geometric fish.

In the Zanzibari Not the same ...They used the weapon from a sash belt or basic waist belt...They didn't ride horses into battle. No need for the right angle knuckle-guard base moreover a need for a smooth uncluttered draw...The rounded knuckle guard bend seems logical.
Insofar as the Pommel top button the pattern shape of the Turtle was used in the Zanzibari type but only there.

In development from one region to another it is suggested that the older history comes from the Moroccan sphere so that the weapon must have stepped from North Africa across the Sahara by camel train or by ship around the Cape or down the Red Sea and to Zanzibar. Other forms are witnessed in the Red Sea region and it is unclear if they had bounced off Zanzibar or entered these places direct from North Africa.... probably the former. Either way the weapon diffused from Morocco to Zanzibar.

Blade and Scabbard development appears to be very distinctly different with beautiful Magrebi cloisonne and gold and silver inscribed Quranic verses lavishly adorning the North African version whilst Red Sea / Yemeni or Indian plain blades seem to populate Zanzibari Nimcha. In one style of Omani Zanzibari ornate hand carved Ivory hilts beautifully plated with golden decor may be a VIP weapon or Court Sword; See Below.

[Gonzalo G]

It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.

[kronckew]

the french and other countries were also fond of carrying them on baldrics. rapiers were not the light fencing foils or epees you see in old films, they were as heavy as many other sword types. a baldric puts the weight more comfortably on the shoulder. both belt and baldric types were used on horse, with the rapiers and wider bladed versions favoured by the military of the day.

i've always found it odd that many rapier carrying arrangements had a strap running diagonally from the front of the sword frog to a mount on the other side of the belt buckle across your crotch. an affectation not found on arabian sword hangers, or later european ones for that matter. 'the town guard' and 'graf pappenheim' included for illustration.

[fernando]

... i've always found it odd that many rapier carrying arrangements had a strap running diagonally from the front of the sword frog to a mount on the other side of the belt buckle across your crotch...
Wasn't that to prevent your carrier from falling back, so that when you seat it conflicts with your back section ... or your horse croup ?


.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is a pity that the historical evidence does not support this complicated hypothesis (better call it assumption). Swords with cuphilts, laces, circular knuckleguards, protective rings, etc., were carried by a baldric on horse, without problem. See the way in wich the Spaniards carried their rapiers: they used baldrics, and the swords can be accomodated by the lenght of the baldric. I think that the form of the knuckleguard of the Moroccan Nimcha was a matter of fashion, though I admit that the rounded knuckleguard allows for a more easy grasp.


Although the clear historical evidence has somehow escaped your attention it is well documented that the Sword of the Prophet was carried in this manner. I do not speak of cuphilts in this discussion... but of the Moroccan Nimcha (an Islamic creation)with a distinct lineage via the Berber situation of Zinette back through the centuries to the 7th.

I didn't mention anything about the rounded Zanzibari knuckle-guard being an easier grasp in fact I note the difference since the broad neck strap seen at #75 above pulls the Moroccan sword higher so that it lodges firmly at the left rib-cage area held more steady by the squared off knuckleguard base, broad flat horse-head pommel, and quilons.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Why is it that the Moroccan variant has a peened stud often ornately decorated whilst the Zanzibar style usually shows a Turtle shaped peened stud format; entirely different?

If the sword evolved from the Moroccan (and it could hardly have come from somewhere else) without a peened stud that also means it probably arrived with no blade, no scabbard and no guards... Did it arrive as a box full/shipload of horsehead hilts only?

Blade manufacture was in place of course in Indian theatres as well as across Africa with European trade blades and in Yemen at Hadramaut etc The Omani Zanzibari craftsmen were perfectly placed and equiped to turn out scabbards and refit imported blades and home grown quilons probably from a Moroccan example but altering the knuckleguard as noted earlier...

As and when the Zanzibari Nimcha bounced into neighboring countries the hilt changed to reflect local customs ... As noted previously the ornate Omani Ivory Hilted gold adorned hilt fulfilled the requirement for a Court/VIP/ Sea Merchants sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kronckew]

Wasn't that to prevent your carrier from falling back, so that when you seat it conflicts with your back section ... or your horse croup ?


.

ah, the X'd strap is the continuation of the broader strap from the forked scabbard bucklings over the shoulder and then thinning down to it's own adjustment buckle and thin strap till it rejoins the buckled area - see the 'french' baldric in the sketch. (i fell into the same trap initially ;).) the belted versions in the othe three panels of the sketch show the belt with the buckle and two support brasses with loops. the main leather buckled frog bit hooks to the one on your left side, a smaller strap continues from the front of this frog to the hooking place on the right side of the belt buckle - except for the german style one which is on the left. some illustrations to help on the belted ones, museum display and an antique belt, and a portrait with a similar belt. (the white blotch looks like a piece of adhesive tape defacing the painting.)

i suspect that it's to keep the hilt up, as the balance is so close to the front it has a tendency to seesaw down w/o the strap as you move . the german style with it's attachment on the same side of the main buckle as the other makes more sense tho. maybe 'cus i'm germanic myself ;), it does seem to be more horse friendly (see graf above). you only have one buckle to undo to take off the german one, the others you need to unbuckle and unhook the front strap. german efficiency. :)

the Tbourida riders as i mentioned above carry their nimchas on a baldric with the hilt down and the pointy end angled UP sticking above their shoulders to suit their way of drawing the sword. different strokes for different folks. with the baldric, dismounted they can adjust that to suit more easily than the european carry methods.

[fernando]

What a comprehensive approach, Wayne .
Still a pity my shorter version, much easier to digest ;), not being (necessarily) correct :shrug: .
... All in all this is a shceme to prevent the sword carrier from foooling around, right ?

[kronckew]

What a comprehensive approach, Wayne .
Still a pity my shorter version, much easier to digest ;), not being (necessarily) correct :shrug: .
... All in all this is a shceme to prevent the sword carrier from foooling around, right ?

correct. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Artwork. THE MOROCCAN NIMCHA.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

What is this? Not to be amazed at what can come out of India ... I thought this has to be recorded ... It is claimed as Indian 17th Century... Photographed at the San Diego Museum of Art in San Diego, California. Comments please? :shrug:

As an afternote I add that in Diverse arms Orientals plate 32 Butin there are several Horse heads with what could be called ears. In addition there was a sword of Tipu Sultan with similar hilt. See http://www.tessier-sarrou.com/html/fiche.jsp?id=3884216&np=1&lng=fr&npp=100&ordre=&aff=5&r= and below

The finial at the end of the knuckleguard on the Indian item ends in a bud whereas on the Zanzibari Ivory piece it is a geometric dragon with RR almost as a monogram with fowers and dots engraved. The Knuckleguard however follows the contours of the horses face in both.

The quality of craftsmen in the Indian Ocean basin was excellent as seen by the Ivory carved hilt and by ivory combs executed in exacting detail. Thus the Indian version is viewed perhaps as a hybrid of top class artesanship in the general region.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Reference;
A. http://nimcha.fr/N-protection.htm

The pitones
Copied on the Spanish sword guards of the late 15th and early 16th century, the pitones equip the Hispano-Moorish nimchas . This type of device, which never existed in Spain, is found on very rare ancient examples of Moroccan nimchas and never on Arab sayfs. Ref .: Museum Real Arméria of Madrid, Museum of Batha in Fez and work of Charles Buttin.

(While I was constructing this frame I was also inspired to do a thread on Quilons on ethnographic since there are widely ranging aspects to that part of the sword and occasionally dagger.)

(I add the Tulvar out of interest since this is not only a decorative or functional extension of the hilt forward of the guard but a type of breakwater device to entrap a sliding blade.)

[werecow]

I just bought a Zanzibari saif and I already had a Moroccan and a Yemeni one, so I thought I'd add my datapoint and resurrect this old thread. See pictures. The tape measure is in cm. First picture, top is the Zanzibar, middle is Moroccan, bottom is the Yemeni one. Sorry about the slight blurriness, my phone's camera has no manual focus option and it insists on focusing on nothing in particular.

A few things I found interesting: the Zanzibar one handles much more easily than the Moroccan one in spite of them looking pretty similar. It has a very thin blade (4mm at the base down to 2mm at 10cm before the tip). The Moroccan one is significantly thicker (6mm at the base down to 3mm near the tip) and a few cm longer.

You don't see a lot of straight blades on the Moroccan ones, whereas I've seen a few of the Zanzibar type now. It gives it more of an older type of saif look. I quite like it, as most of the swords I own either have curved blades or are much more thrust centric (it's the main reason why I decided to pick it up). I'm not sure whether the scabbard is original or something made later on, but it does look like it has some age to it. It seems intended for storage rather than wearing as there are no suspension rings.

I wonder if the little knuckle protecting side branch on the Moroccan one's guard (which AFAIK is not typical; see picture 3 which for some reason got flipped upside down during upload) was inspired by the side ring on the Zanzibar models?

[werecow]

Also, while I'm on the subject, does anyone recognize these inscriptions on the Moroccan nimcha/saif?

(Sorry about the poor lighting; also for some reason the 2nd image is right side up on my PC but upside down after the upload. Some metadata problem no doubt.)

[Jim McDougall]

Wonderful grouping!! These are excellent examples of these sa'if of the Arab sphere. It is important to note that this does not mean 'Arabian' as in Arabia proper, but in the places where Arabs populate the regions, not meaning to get into ethnic discussion.
By the same token, the Moroccan example has long been known colloquially as a 'nimcha', by collectors, but overall, these are all simply termed sa'if.

These are likely 19th century but could be earlier, especially the one you note as Yemeni, which is actually more to the Hadhramaut regions (as described in Elgood, "Arms & Armour of Arabia".

The example with extended crossguard ring has also been somehow classified in collectors circles as 'zanzibari', however in Buttin (1933) these are noted as Arab sa'if, with no mention of Zanzibar. Naturally these were present there, but by no means were they exclusively from there. It seems this classification appeared in a number of references in 1980s.

The blades on these are invariably trade blades, German of course, and the blades are typically early 19th c. These were most typically acquired from Bedouin traders by armorers mounting blades into hilts in locations often in Yemen. With the Moroccan examples (which were often Algerian as well) these were mounted with trade blades, and armorers often added the 'sickle marks' approximating the so called 'Genoan' marks.

The straight blade on the 'Zanzibar' example is of a type of trade blade usually into Ethiopia late 19th c. which usually ended up traded into Yemeni markets. These were often mounted in Yemen on silver hilts of a different form. Ethiopian swords often went into Arabia as the Arabs were after the rhino horn typically on the Ethiopian shotels for their kahdjhar daggers.

In rereading this thread, I just wanted to say that the work done by Ibrahiim al Balooshi (Peter Hudson) here in examining these forms was brilliant! I learned a great deal from his research and contributions.

[Jim McDougall]

Wanted to add these three with notes:
1. This is what may best be called 'Maghrebi' as these are found from Algeria to Morocco, but typically they are known to collectors as Moroccan sa'if.
The mark at the forte is located in the same place as typically these are found on Algerian examples (Briggs, 1965). There are varied marks but significance unclear.
2. This is the so called 'Zanzibar' form, which term seems to have developed in the 80s and possibly from numbers of these which were apparently sent into Yemen from there. This was one of about 40 discovered in a Yemeni arsenal (?).
The markings of three crosses on the blade may be interpretations of German blade markings.As previously noted, Buttin (1933) makes no notice of these being peculiar to Zanzibar and terms them Arab sa'if only.

3. A sa'if of 19th c.(possibly earlier) Hadhramaut, according to Elgood and Lebedynsky, which may have silverwork from Hyderabad. There appear to be two hilt forms, the one with canted pommel and hand nock, and this more karabela form. Hadhramaut is of course a Yemeni region.

The pages are from Elgood ("Arms and Armor of Arabia" 1994) and Buttin, collection catalog 1933.

[werecow]

Wonderful grouping!! These are excellent examples of these sa'if of the Arab sphere. It is important to note that this does not mean 'Arabian' as in Arabia proper, but in the places where Arabs populate the regions, not meaning to get into ethnic discussion.
By the same token, the Moroccan example has long been known colloquially as a 'nimcha', by collectors, but overall, these are all simply termed sa'if.

These are likely 19th century but could be earlier, especially the one you note as Yemeni, which is actually more to the Hadhramaut regions (as described in Elgood, "Arms & Armour of Arabia".

Thanks! As it happens a copy of that book is on its way to me now from the US. Took me longer to find a copy of the book that I could afford than the actual sword! :D Look forward to reading it.

The example with extended crossguard ring has also been somehow classified in collectors circles as 'zanzibari', however in Buttin (1933) these are noted as Arab sa'if, with no mention of Zanzibar. Naturally these were present there, but by no means were they exclusively from there. It seems this classification appeared in a number of references in 1980s.

The blades on these are invariably trade blades, German of course, and the blades are typically early 19th c. These were most typically acquired from Bedouin traders by armorers mounting blades into hilts in locations often in Yemen. With the Moroccan examples (which were often Algerian as well) these were mounted with trade blades, and armorers often added the 'sickle marks' approximating the so called 'Genoan' marks.

The straight blade on the 'Zanzibar' example is of a type of trade blade usually into Ethiopia late 19th c. which usually ended up traded into Yemeni markets. These were often mounted in Yemen on silver hilts of a different form. Ethiopian swords often went into Arabia as the Arabs were after the rhino horn typically on the Ethiopian shotels for their kahdjhar daggers.


Ah, very interesting. I thought there might be a connection to the Omani kattara (although the tip on the Zanzibar is not as rounded), and I knew a lot of the Moroccan blades are European, but I hadn't made the link between the straight bladed Zanzibar saif to the Ethiopian market. The straight bladed gurade swords I've seen usually have different styles of fullering.

EDIT: And to add, I really like how that red contrasts with the silver on that karabela's scabbard! You see that on Dha scabbards sometimes as well.

[ariel]

By far the best book on North African swords and daggers is:

Eric Claude “The small catalog of Moroccan and Algerian edged weapons”

It is a bilingual French/English private edition limited to 200 copies. Published in 2020.
I was lucky to order it when it just came out. Not on Bookfinder as of today.

[Jim McDougall]

Interestingly, the Omani 'kattara' (another collector oriented term, these are simply termed, again, sa'if). The curved blade version of these open hilts of somewhat flattened cylindrical style are actually the 'kattara', and these are usually with German trade blades.

The open hilt broadswords regarded as kattara over the years with the rounded tip are typically with very thin, flexible blades as used in the traditional dance ceremonies...however these were popular with Omani merchants and prominent figures as status aligned accoutrements, these often had trade blades.

In Burton (1884) these 'kattara' open hilt swords are noted as 'Zanzibar' swords, just as listed in Demmin (1877), however they are profoundly Omani and found in the Omani ruled Sultanate of Zanzibar.

Its great you have the Elgood book coming! It is one of the few references which direct us through the mysteries of Arabian arms, and Robert Elgood is one of the most tenacious and thorough researchers.

The Moroccan (Maghrebi) version of these sa'ifs indeed used all manner of trade blades. These have even been found with ANDREA FERARA broadsword blades and other European examples. These were long termed (incorrectly) 'nimcha' which has become a colloquially used term for them.

The 'Zanzibar' type of Arab sa'if as discussed, was present in Zanzibar in degree, much as were many forms, as this was a busy trade entrepot. However while there are some examples with motif distinguishing the Zanzibar location, others are simply corresponding to hilt forms known from western India into the Arab sphere. As noted, the trade blades into Ethiopia (then Abyssinia) often filtered into trade centers in Aden and Yemen. It is not surprising to see them on various type hilts.

The Ethiopian shotels with straight blades, like most of these trade blade variations had different fullering in accord with which suppliers were providing them. There were mostly British with many German types. Many of these blades coming into Harar to Armenian merchants were inscribed with Amharic inscriptions and Lion of Judah, so often Arabian swords from Yemen are found with these. The term gurade typically typically refers to European style stirrup hilt sabers provided into Ethiopian military strata.

Thank you for the note on the red over silver banding. Elgood notes this as a Hadhramati characteristic coming from swords mounted in Hyderabad India in accord with their mercenary forces active there. These kinds of styles found as far as SE Asia, and even Central Asia (Uzbekistan) are often found in the Indian subcontinent conduit. A distinctly Arab feature however in the silver work is the element known as the aghrab (=scorpion), which aligns with the evil eye superstitions.

In pics:
An Omani 'dance' sa'if as used in Zanzibar Funoon ceremony. These have commonly become known as 'kattara'.
Next is likely a Manding saber from Mali, but this is remarkably similar to the curved sabers also from Zanzibar which are actually deemed 'kattara' by the Omanis. These are noted to often have German 'cavalry' blades.
It is interesting to see the similarity of the cylindrical hilt of Manding sabers with this type of pommel........trade caravans westward which often had Zanzibar origins traveled through the interior carrying Omani influences into the Sahara, especially Timbuktu (Mali). Here eastward influences from as far as Morocco interacted traveling eastward back to Zanzibar.
Moroccan s'boula are known in Zanzibar (Burton calls them Zanzibar swords), so the cross diffusion of these weapons is certainly viable.

[TVV]

Werecow, this is a really nice Zanzibari, or probably more appropriately, East African saif. Great to see it complete with its wooden scabbard. It is interesting that these swords almost never have any blade marks.

I know nimcha refers to the overall sword size, but since I do not have a better word to describe this hilt type, I will keep using the term "nimcha" here. When it comes to the difference between Maghrebi, Arab and East African nimcha hilts, the shape of the grip and especially the angle at which the pommel is tilted is in my experience more important in determining the area of origin than the presence or lack of a guard ring. Some Maghrebi examples, especially earlier ones have a guard ring. Then there are some examples from Oman/Zanzibar and the Comoros without a guard ring at all.

Here are my few examples, of which the one with the straight, single edged blade has no guard ring and a sort of a "crab claw" like guard instead.

[werecow]

I think that's actually the first nimcha/saif I've seen with a backsword blade! Very interesting. EDIT: Actually, there are a couple on the first pages of this very thread! My memory is not great. }|:oP

I've seen a few of the Manding swords with straight blades as well. Sometimes it's easy to get them confused, especially when they are not the kind with the bulbous scabbards. Case in point (http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17354):

http://vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=106360&stc=1&d=1371560882

Contrast with (http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24821&highlight=manding):

http://vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=187433&stc=1&d=1554006669

[Peter Hudson]

And as a gentle bump to bring this thread into focuss with details being looked at in other related work including Nimcha, Moplah, Karabela Kasthane, etc etc...

[Peter Hudson]

I wanted to bump this thread so it can be easily refered to on looking at design features and with detail on sword style movement across the Indian Ocean and beyond...

And as a gentle bump to bring this thread into focuss with details being looked at in other related work including Nimcha, Moplah, Karabela, Kasthane, as well as Moroccan, North African and Ottoman variants etc...

It should be noted that "The Pirate Coast" by Sir Charles Belgrave (1966) on page 189 reminds us that it was the Pirate situation in and around The Indian Ocean which was vitally important to controlling the waves in the region 150 years before he published his book The Pirate Coast in the mid 1960s... thus it is reasonable to assume that Piracy was an important influence on sword design style across the region. ADDED To that it is likely that Slavery was a root cause in turbo charging sword design and movement to and from the great entre ports such as Zanzibar thus the reign of Oman over that part of the globe through Saaid The Great is instrumental in our understanding in that regard...

One specific style that hardly seemed to exist prior to his rule is what we know as the Nimcha...however this is not what the local people called it. In Oman for example this was and is still known as Habashi or Hibashi... and is well illustrated by Butin (but incorrectly named) in his charts of swords in this thread. Butin does however draw very accurately the broader end section of about 12 inches to the tip which closely resembles the Moplah form from the Malibar Coast.. The chart showing this broader Yelman is at thread top right and left of his chart at xxx1
...
As a conundrum the similarity with the Moroccan Nimcha is quite uncanny... and in the case of the link to swords of the Great Bands of London and from a book I read by the late Anthony North and carried on the waist of Thomas Blose ...A Captain of that era... (this seems to be related to the Moroccan form) further amazing is the likeness in hilt form and quillons to an Ottoman style however what the link is between African and Arabian forms is a little foggy to say the least except to say somewhat blandly that the styles are essentially related across frontiers loosely by trade, exploration and war to which I would add religion and slavery...

My aim in this post is to commence the launch of a series of thoughts by taking the Zanzibari Nimcha design feature one by one to see where influence from whatever source can be identified...

Thus I will open with the Scabbard... which is identified as Omani Style with distinctive leather sworls in a circular design seen on Omani Sayf and Kittara scabbards... identical and not seen on other nations scabbards.

Post 16 above and other pictures dotted around on this thread show many similarities in Nimcha design both types given a sort of grouping by Butin into African and Arabian types with charts again shown at thread and interestingly showing the broader Yelaman on Chart xxx11.Top right and Left. It is suggested and in support of Jims research that this is Moplah influence from across the Indian Ocean on the Malibar Coast..

Who gave the name Nimcha to this weapon? Butin seems to have taken the view that these were all Nimcha types but we know that none of the local peoples called them Nimcha...a term perhaps coined after the short coat ...or waist coat of the Baluchi mercenaries working for Saaiid The Great in the Indian Ocean. Omanis call the type Habashi. Nimcha seems to be a collectors name.

The main hilt shape appears to be very similar to the Turkish Palash style including the general format of the grip pommel and cross guard knuckle guard and turned down quillons but with a much less broad blade which in the Turkish type is a massive cleaver like blade. See thread for examples.

Hilt design also includes a more lavish expertise known to have been iused by artesans in Zanzibar in the art of Ivory adornment usually seen on hand held mirrors and illustrated on the hilt seen here at post. The style is also shown on thread of a mirror from Zanzibar in that style. I wouild expect this to adorn a VIP or rulers sword or an important trader or sea captain. See also how this hilt has spread to places in the Indian Ocean by viewing a similar hilt from the New Caledonia Islands...
at Thread. Post 64.....
From gravure tirée de l'Illustration, 1891,
le sultan Said Athmann, chef des rebelles d'Anjoun,
interné en Nouvelle-Calédonie.

Atop the Zanzibar pommel is a turtle which is the same type as lives around the tropical Island of Zanzibar...thus is a signature design feature of the location...and suggests something related to Oceans and or Sailing?and related to Zanzibar.

A Royal Insignia...!!!! Next is a quite remarkable signature feature representing the signature of HM Saaiid The Great himself ...See picture below for exact example and details of the entire hilt... On thread is the signature of the ruler and further there is an Omani sword hilt with this kriss cross format which is what I suggest also a basic signature
using silver stiching ofdten seen on Omani Sayf and Kittara swords hilts...and repeated on Khanjar belts....... and view the sword makers effort in reproducing a follow the dots style of design. This is accurate insofar as down to the minute blemishes seemingly tiny floral decoration possibly inspired by the herbs growing on Zanzibar...between the letters which are of course in Arabic... read from right to left and done geometrically on each quillon ...The quillon of the edged cutting blade under the knuckle guard is the correct one to read and at thread is an almost exact perfect example of the Rulers signature at least in part..

For the reasons above I place this post proving the Zanzibari Oman nature of this weapon and underpin its Zanzibari origin because of the design style including the Turtle format above the Pommel,the lavish Ivory Zanzibar adornment on some Nimcha and the Omani Origin of the leather scabbard...on I suggest a formal, regimental sword probably Omani Zanzibari Naval by definition and a weapon made up primarily through influence across the Indian Ocean...and Oman and carrying the Rulers signature on the Quillons..My initial thoughts on these words were that they spelled BAHR...which means SEA...but having looked at the rulers signature I would switch to that construct..

Peter Hudson.

[Jim McDougall]

Peter thank you for bumping this thread here so perhaps it can coincide with the interesting results with the 'Arab Nimchas of the Pirate Coast' thread.
It seems there has been notable progress in advancing the general awareness and identification of these swords thanks to the valuable input from everyone who has contributed.

Thank you as well for itemizing the various elements, as these might be discussed and reviewed singly with the possible influences involved.
There are so many subtle symbolic religious and sometimes talismanic devices often incorporated with decoration that perhaps might provide support for more specific identifications.

[Peter Hudson]

Peter thank you for bumping this thread here so perhaps it can coincide with the interesting results with the 'Arab Nimchas of the Pirate Coast' thread.
It seems there has been notable progress in advancing the general awareness and identification of these swords thanks to the valuable input from everyone who has contributed.

Thank you as well for itemizing the various elements, as these might be discussed and reviewed singly with the possible influences involved.
There are so many subtle symbolic religious and sometimes talismanic devices often incorporated with decoration that perhaps might provide support for more specific identifications.

Thanks Jim, I note the book "The Pirate Coast" by Sir Charles Belgrave (1966) you first quoted is also available as a free electronic read on the web and it has much detail of the region. Being all about ocean and seagoing in the Indian Ocean I found it very informative. The thrust of sword style and design transfer was driven by all the usual factors and enhanced by Piracy. Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

Posts 19 and 24 and several others with partial details on the likely linkages across the Nimcha range including Butins charts (displaying nearly 50 Variants) are here on this thread...The Pallasch style of weapon is central to linking all Nimcha both Arabian and African to likely Ottoman origins particularly in hilt forms.
Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

I wanted to bring together the strengths of both this thread and the thread close to its content Arab Cutlasses of the Pirate Coast ... thus bringing into focus the cross pollination in sword design in a region which developed its Lingua Franka as spoken arabic thus the many items and ways of life that were virtually the same and as well as of a very similar faith...In other words the CULTURAL aspects. In choosing just one additional technology ...that of the Lanteen Sail it states ...Arabs Used Lateen Sails for Muslim-led Fleets
The Arabs used the lateen sail thru the Copts, mostly the crewmen for Muslim-led fleets for centuries. It was the Arabs who developed the lateen sail. Later on, sailors used it in the Mediterranean. Only after the 14th century did the Atlantic and Baltic vessels switch to using the lateen sail. Northern Europe adapted to using the lateen sail in the Late Middle Ages.

Peter Hudson

[Peter Hudson]

The Cultural aspect of the Lingua Franka was the vital ingredient on design flow of technology weapons building design clothing food jewelery music dance poetry religion in fact almost every aspect of life in The Indian Ocean and related nations.

[fernando]

It was the Arabs who developed the lateen sail. Later on, sailors used it in the Mediterranean...
Regarding the lateen sail, several authors have suggested in the past that it was introduced to the Mediterranean by the Arabs, possibly having originally appeared in India. However, the discovery of new representations and literary references in recent decades has led scholars to push back the appearance of the lateen sail in the Levant to the late Hellenistic or early Roman periods.
The Portuguese around the 15th century adapted this sail to the famous Portuguese caravel, becoming one of the main characteristics of these vessels. It helped the great navigators in their great expeditions, and Vasco da Gama was one of the first to use it for this purpose.
(Casson 1995, p. 243–245, fig. 180–182. Basch 2001, p. 57–64.Campbell 1995, p. 8–11. Pomey 2006, p. 326–329).



-

[Peter Hudson]

Just to refer readers to another region and style not far from Zanzibar and on Library http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24894&page=3at