SOLO KRATON KERIS AUCTIONED / GIFT FROM JAVANESE ROYALS TO DUTCH BANKER

[asomotif]

Good evening,

This keris was auctioned last month.
It was offered as a mid 19th century kraton keris that was a gift from a javanese royal family to a dutch banker.
His name is engraved in the selut and the weapon of the royal family is on the back of the pendok.

How realistic is this ?

Best regards,
Willem

[mariusgmioc]

It looks like there is a mismatch between the kris and the scabbard...

I don't think it is new... but 19th century?! I doubt.

:shrug:

[Battara]

I maybe wrong, but it doesn't look royal to me.

[Jean]

May be the Dutch banker was an usurer or a crook? :D
The name seems to be written on the mendak and the selut is recent and of poor quality.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Good story.

In respect of "Royal" keris.

During the 1980's I saw and handled a number of keris that were indisputably "Royal" keris. They were held in the store rooms of the Surakarta Kraton and were keris that had been gifted to kraton officials, and to previous Susuhunans, and keris that had been made on order from the Kraton. In most cases these were very ordinary keris.

A Javanese "Royal" keris does not need to be super great to be legitimate.

This keris shown may well have spent time in a Kraton storeroom.

However, the dress is very, very pedestrian quality and the keris itself is poorly matched to the dress.

Again, this poor presentation is not at all unusual for something coming from the Surakarta Kraton. There are more than a few examples of very, very ordinary keris floating around, some of which are very famous ( and have been for a long time), are in museums, or during the 20th century were given to visiting heads of state and politicians.

I was once offered a keris that had been presented to a former Australian Prime Minister, not by a kraton, but by (I guess) a representative of the Indonesian Government. It was one notch above rubbish. Probably a good indication of how much respect that particular Aussie PM got from Jakarta.

Just because a keris has been presented to somebody, by somebody, it does not mean that its value is any more than the sum value of its individual parts.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
Thank you for the interesting story & analysis, I agree that the blade is quite good but do you think that the ganja wulung is original or not? (difficult to assess from a picture of course).
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

I don't like guessing Jean, but really, whether it is, or is not the very first gonjo fitted to the blade is not relevant in my opinion.

A keris can, and does, sometimes lose its gonjo often for culturally related reasons.

It is important that the gonjo be replaced competently.

It is unimportant that is has been replaced.

Think about it like this:- the blade is male : the gonjo is female, just as the wrongko is female : the male wilah is mated to the female elements of the complete keris and when all are together we have a societal symbol of the unity of male and female, just as a married man & woman are together representative of the required unity that makes a whole: man cannot be complete without woman, woman cannot be complete without man. Now, in the human man/woman unity if one part dies, it should be replaced so that the remaining part can once again be complete. In traditional thought, a woman should not continue to exist as a part of a community after the death of her husband, but if she removes herself from the community, or in later times takes a new husband, the unity is restored and the community is once again in balance. If the community is in balance, the danger to the cosmos of a state of non-balance is avoided.

The whole thing is really very simple. It is just a matter of understanding what the keris really is.

Frankly, I don't think this is much of a blade from the artistic perspective, its just a keris, nothing special, not bad, not good. But it is a keris, and if thought about in a cultural/societal context the important thing is that it does have a gonjo and that gonjo is suited to the wilah.

[Rick]

Willem,
Was there anything tangible to link this keris to a particular person?
An old photograph?
Perhaps a letter mentioning the occasion?

[asomotif]

Hello Rick,

The seller claims that the keris comes from the granddaughter of this banker.
Here is the link to the Original listing :

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/6843165-antieke-kris-keris-solo-java-indonesi

We are not discussing prices here, but If you check the link, you will see that Alan's rule does not apply here :
Just because a keris has been presented to somebody, by somebody, it does not mean that its value is any more than the sum value of its individual parts.

My questions regarding this keris are the following.
- the red fabric in the center of the pendok is described as a proof of high status. Is this true ?
- The pendokok/mendak has a name in it, but the technique used does not look like an indonesian way of working to me.
- The selut seems very recent to me.
- The "royal" family crest on the back of the keris. Is this a know decoration ?



Best regards,
Willem

[Battara]

Alan, thank you. Again, I have learned. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

Willem, any rule is only as good as the place where it applies.

Traffic in Australia travels on the left hand side of the road. That's the rule here.

Traffic in many other countries travels on the right hand side of the road. That's the rule in those other places.

Get a bit mixed up and you might die.

My approach to the keris, most especially the Javanese and Balinese keris is a cultural/societal approach. The way I think about and evaluate a keris is based in values and mores that apply to the keris in Jawa, and that were taught to me by Javanese people, amongst them two Karaton Surakarta empus. Before I learnt how to think about the keris in a way that is in harmony with these values and mores my way of looking at the keris was perhaps a little more aligned to the way in which most collectors think, particularly collectors who are outside these keris bearing societies. Although I can understand how others may think about the keris, and although I myself may have thought in a similar way in the past, I have left that way of thinking behind me a very long time ago.

Regarding the colour red. Within the Surakarta Karaton a red kemalo pendok is reserved for wear by members of the royal family or a bupati. This does not necessarily apply outside the kraton and use is situational. A red cloth insert is not a red kemalo pendok, but arguably it may be read in the same way.

This selut style does exist in early seluts, but the one pictured here probably dates from at the very earliest, the 1970's.

The mendak could have been marked with the name in Jawa, it is very simple embossing work, and the Javanese craftsmen are some of the best in the world at this craft. But the question is why it was so marked. Personally I have not the slightest idea why.

The "Royal Family Crest" ?
Sorry, I cannot see any such thing.
What I can see is a little wreath with a couple of Javanese letters in it. This might be a maker's mark, something a previous owner has had put there, a pattern number --- it could be anything. This sort of marking on the back of a pendok is very common.

Stories and sales hype.

[mariusgmioc]

The "Royal Family Crest" ?
Sorry, I cannot see any such thing.
What I can see is a little wreath with a couple of Javanese letters in it. This might be a maker's mark, something a previous owner has had put there, a pattern number --- it could be anything. This sort of marking on the back of a pendok is very common.

Stories and sales hype.

That was my impression too. That isn't the Surakarta Kraton crest.

However, I have seen many kerises bearing the Kraton crest on sale for around 50 Euros in the Surakarta antique market. Didn't buy any because I thought they were overpriced... so you can get an idea about their quality.

[A. G. Maisey]

To be able to buy quality , on the ground, in Solo, you need connections.

Connections take time to build.

No connections, you don't even get to see quality, let alone buy it.

[mariusgmioc]

To be able to buy quality , on the ground, in Solo, you need connections.

Connections take time to build.

No connections, you don't even get to see quality, let alone buy it.

Hello Alan,

Yes, you are right, as I checked it out myself! I even saw a couple of dealers but they only had average and sub-average stuff.

So I ended up buying a Keris from a dealer here in the Netherlands.
:)

[asomotif]

This selut style does exist in early seluts, but the one pictured here probably dates from at the very earliest, the 1970's.

The mendak could have been marked with the name in Jawa, it is very simple embossing work, and the Javanese craftsmen are some of the best in the world at this craft. But the question is why it was so marked. Personally I have not the slightest idea why.

.

Here are 2 more pictures of the selut/mendak combi.

The selut looks recent to me as well.
And the mendak also looks like construction of not matching parts.
Original sorsorran and meniran . but the part with the inscription looks very western european in my opinion.

I would not be surprised if this was part of an office stamp used at the bank.

[asomotif]

Ps. the keris is of excellent forging. Proof is offered by this picture.
well forged keris appear to have a good balance and can stand alone.

any opinions on this balance story ?

[mariusgmioc]

Ps. the keris is of excellent forging. Proof is offered by this picture.
well forged keris appear to have a good balance and can stand alone.

any opinions on this balance story ?

Theoretically you should be able to do this with every single keris. Didn't try it myself but it's basic physics completely independent from the quality of the Keris. You may check it out by rotating the handle so to be out of balance. You should be able to make it stand even with the handle rotated... albeit it will stand at a slight inclination angle.
:cool:

PS: Now I tried it myself and couldn't make it stand whatsoever. And the seller showed me that it stands... Maybe one needs a steady hand. :shrug:

I attached the Surakarta sultan crest

[David]

Ps. the keris is of excellent forging. Proof is offered by this picture.
well forged keris appear to have a good balance and can stand alone.

any opinions on this balance story ?
Sorry Willem, i can balance most keris regardless of the quality of the forging.
;)

[David]

Here are 2 more pictures of the selut/mendak combi.

The selut looks recent to me as well.
And the mendak also looks like construction of not matching parts.
Original sorsorran and meniran . but the part with the inscription looks very western european in my opinion.

I would not be surprised if this was part of an office stamp used at the bank.
Willem, i can only read parts of what is written around the mendak. Could you write it out for us. I see what looks like "Rotterdam" and then maybe "Weezenber" (???) but i can see there are more letters involved.

[asomotif]

Willem, i can only read parts of what is written around the mendak. Could you write it out for us. I see what looks like "Rotterdam" and then maybe "Weezenber" (???) but i can see there are more letters involved.

Hello David,

* VAN WEEZENBEEK * ROTTERDAM

[Roland_M]

any opinions on this balance story ?

Yes, try it on a hard wooden surface.
With the carpet it is more wedged within the carpet with the scabbard as a kind of bearing.

Some keris are able to stand on wood or stone almost without the help of the scabbard. I really don't know, whether this is a sign of quality or not but I have one Keris, which stands on its tip almost by itself after few seconds.


Roland

[A. G. Maisey]

Its MAGIK!!!

And obviously very, very important.

[asomotif]

Yes, try it on a hard wooden surface.
With the carpet it is more wedged within the carpet with the scabbard as a kind of bearing.

Some keris are able to stand on wood or stone almost without the help of the scabbard. I really don't know, whether this is a sign of quality or not but I have one Keris, which stands on its tip almost by itself after few seconds.


Roland

Maybe I will give it a try with a few of my keris.

I have only tried this in the past with a broom stick and with a broom stick it worked. based on that experience I fail to see the relation to good forging / quality.
:)

[Roland_M]

based on that experience I fail to see the relation to good forging / quality.
:)

Just a theory!!
A Keris, which stands easily on its tip is well balanced and this increases the value in a serious situation, provides a better feeling for the blade.

For Indonesians it is often very important, that the Keris stands on its tip easily and I think we all know not enough to laugh about it and put it in the empire of Esoteric.


Roland

[A. G. Maisey]

Comment withdrawn.

Why bother?

Years of talking about keris in this Forum and is there anybody who understands what we're talking about?

[mariusgmioc]

Its MAGIK!!!

And obviously very, very important.

Brilliant! Thank you!
:D :D :D

[Rick]

Its MAGIK!!!

And obviously very, very important.

Earth Magick Alan. ;)
Regular balancing of your kerises is important to ones chi you know... ;)

[David]

Comment withdrawn.

Why bother?

Years of talking about keris in this Forum and is there anybody who understands what we're talking about?
I have no comment here. Just wanted to re-post Alan's last comment. :)

[asomotif]

Good evening,

This keris was auctioned last month.
It was offered as a mid 19th century kraton keris that was a gift from a javanese royal family to a dutch banker.
His name is engraved in the selut and the weapon of the royal family is on the back of the pendok.

How realistic is this ?

Best regards,
Willem

Sorry, maybe I brought up something that is not about keris but more about the hocus pocus around a keris.

[A. G. Maisey]

When almost anything is misunderstood, people seem to conjure explanations from their own misunderstanding.

A good example of this, and one that is very easy to understand is the manifestation of the Melanesian Cargo Cult that occurred after WWII. There is a lot of information on Cargo Cults on the net and in the literature. Here is a link to a clear, concise summary:-

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/cargocult.htm

The keris, most especially the Javanese keris is a multi facetted object. This is perfectly in harmony with the nature of the culture which gave it birth, the culture of Jawa, that has a system of values and symbolism that in themselves are multi-facetted.

Because of this there are many aspects of the keris that are not understood, and many more aspects that were understood by some people at some time, but have now been forgotten.

We, as people who have an interest in the keris have choices to make:-

we can simply accumulate collections of the physical object and immerse ourselves in trying to understand the physical manifestation of skill and artistry that has gone into the production of that object.

or

we can make an attempt to try to understand the forces that prompted a culture to create this object, the Keris, and then to develop it into a socio-cultural icon that has lasted for better than 1000 years.

I am not suggesting that one of these choices is more worthy than the other:- each of us will instinctively follow the path that is most appealing to himself.

However, for those who may wish to stray beyond the bounds of the purely physical, here would be a good place to start:-

Sumukti Sumastuti , "Gunungan, The Javanese Cosmic Mountain", A dissertation submitted to the
Graduate Division of the University of Hawaii in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Anthropology, December 1997.

This used to be available on-line, I have been unable to locate a current address. I do have a pdf of it, which I am willing to share.

[Rick]

I think it might be very helpful. :)

Someone once referred to keris study as 'a pretty deep rabbit hole'. :D

[A. G. Maisey]

Rick, I cannot publish the contents of the pdf here, it is a restricted publication with the rights to publication reserved by the author --- and maybe by the University of Hawaii too.

However, I will send a copy to anybody who wishes to contact me.

[Seerp Visser]

We as people from this era with the whole world around us where we can get information about everything by our computers, we do not need a god anymore to believe in a mystic power of material things.

However when i handle my keris and when i work on them, i always try to follow the habits and guidelines given by the people who used to do so.
It helps me concentrate, and what is more important to me, it is the only way i still can show my deep respect for the men making such difficult to make and beautiful pieces of art.

[David]

We as people from this era with the whole world around us where we can get information about everything by our computers, we do not need a god anymore to believe in a mystic power of material things.

However when i handle my keris and when i work on them, i always try to follow the habits and guidelines given by the people who used to do so.
It helps me concentrate, and what is more important to me, it is the only way i still can show my deep respect for the men making such difficult to make and beautiful pieces of art.
Seerp, i'm not sure that anyone here is actually dismissing the spiritual/mystical/magickal aspects of the keris. The question has been raised about the practice of standing keris on end and whether that is a sign of a well forged blade. Also many people in recent years have made claims that balancing keris has something to do with mystical/magickal powers. In reality it is just basic science.
I might be way off base here and if so perhaps someone in the know can advise differently, but it seems that this penchant for balancing keris is a fairly recent phenomenon in certain places in Indonesia. I am not at all convinced that this is a practice that comes from any long-held tradition and have wondered if old school keris aficionados might not look at the practice as being somewhat disrespectful to the spirit of the keris, making them do tricks for public attention like this. I could be wrong of course. Maybe this is a long-held spiritual belief that i am simply unaware of. :shrug:

[A. G. Maisey]

A personal keris is representative of its custodian. Such a keris is not displayed publicly. It is not removed from its wrongko to satisfy the curiosity of others.

A family keris (pusaka) is representative of its previous custodians and of the extended family, both past and present. Such a keris is a family heirloom and is kept within the family.

The profane keris in its role as a curiosity, a collectable, a store of wealth, an art work is in spite of its profane nature still symbolic of the Gunungan, which is linked to ancestor worship and the Gods.

Is it fitting to perform parlour tricks with such a powerful cultural symbol?

The major problem here is that we have several generations of people living in keris bearing cultures who have become disconnected from the traditional values and knowledge of their own cultures.

They know not what they do.

It is simply not possible to understand anything about the keris unless one has an understanding of the culture and society first.

Regrettably many people living in societies across the world have lost touch with their ancestors.

[kino]

A keris can, and does, sometimes lose its gonjo often for culturally related reasons.

What are the cultural reasons that a keris would loose it's gonjo?

A keris that is forged without a separate gonjo, what completes the blade, a scabbard?

[A. G. Maisey]

The most usual reason that a keris will lose its gonjo is in the case where an heirloom keris needs to be passed to more than one person. In such a case, the original gonjo is incorporated into the body of a new keris.

Usually only one new keris is made, but I have heard of a gonjo being incorporated into more than one new keris. In such a case the whole gonjo is incorporated into a single base forging which is then split into two or more forgings to to make the number of new keris required. The heirloom keris receives a new gonjo.

Then there is the situation where a keris needs to have its geometry altered to prioritise a dress requirement.

A gonjo that has been damaged either by accident or by time will commonly be replaced, this is regarded as keris maintenance. To many people the keris is a living entity, it needs to be taken care of as is any living entity.

Many, if not most, instances where a kinatah motif was awarded involved the making of a new gonjo.

Sultan Agung decreed that nobody in his realm could wear a keris with a pamor gonjo. All existing keris at that time needed to have a new gonjo fitted.

When we think about the keris, we need to think of it in terms that can relate to a man. A man can legitimately have many women, many wives. A woman can legitimately have only one man, one husband. From the man's perspective, the woman is replaceable, but if a woman is replaced, then her replacement needs to be in harmony with her husband, if she is not, the man gets rid of her.

Javanese symbolism is multi symbolism:- the same thing can be interpreted in many ways, depending on context.

Thus the keris is symbolic of the man, the family, the kin group, the ancestors, the community, the Kingdom, the Ruler, the Gunungan, the Meru and of Siwa.

The wilah is purely masculine and is the keris, but when paired with the gonjo and considered as such it becomes the keris as symbolic of the human situation where the symbolism has moved from singularity to duality, that is, not only the masculine singular, but the complete foundation stone of society:- man + woman, one cannot exist without the other.

However, even when the wilah is paired with the gonjo, it requires a warangka (wrongko, scabbard) in order to fully symbolise the other societally based things, because the nature of the warangka is feminine and family and community require both male and female to produce family. This is not to say that the wilah + gonjo cannot fulfil the symbolic roles associated with family and community, but when coupled with the warangka that symbolism is strengthened.

In its role as symbolic of the Gunungan, the Meru, and of Siwa, the wilah can fulfil this role without the inclusion of the warangka.

So, when we think of the keris, the one component that is indispensable is the wilah, if we add the gonjo we gain a little more, if we add the warangka we gain more again.

Where a wilah has been made in such a way that the gonjo is forged as a part of the blade what we are looking at is the permanent unification of male and female.

Some symbolism associated with the keris was present from the time that the Keris Buda appeared, other symbolism has developed over time. The important thing to be aware of is that the keris is a culturally powerful icon that is loaded with symbolism, and we cannot begin to understand that icon unless we take the symbolism into account.

[kino]

Thanks so much for the datum, it's very interesting and complex.
I've read it several times and found that there is a lot to digest in those paragraphs. Reading it leads to more questions....



It is a "pretty deep rabbit hole".

[A. G. Maisey]

Its not really all that difficult, but it does require the learning of a new way to think and the adoption of a set of standards that are not common in most 21st century societies.

[asomotif]

Its not really all that difficult, but it does require the learning of a new way to think and the adoption of a set of standards that are not common in most 21st century societies.

The gonjo on this particular keris, is it a good replacement ?

I am still searching for opinions on how royal this keris might be.

Best regards,
Willem

[David]

I am still searching for opinions on how royal this keris might be.
Willem, i am not sure exactly what you mean by this. Perhaps you need to define the term "royal" in your expectation for a more specific answer. As Alan has already state, he has personally examined some rather ordinary keris in the Kraton storeroom. Is that your standard for what a "Royal" keris is? If so and you are still trying to determine if this keris is a "royal" keris then i suppose that it does seem possible that it could be. However, stories of origins, even when held sincerely by families for long periods of time, are not always rooted in reality. The story told about this keris may or may not be accurate and must be taken with a grain of salt at best. Supposedly (according to the seller's website) this story was relayed by the granddaughter of the banker. He doesn't say exactly when the prince's family supposedly gifted this to the banker, but if the selut is indeed no older than the 1970s as Alan suggests that places this "gift" in the modern era.The "crest" on the back of the pendok is not any recognizable "royal" crest. So that is not a strong indicator that this keris actually did come from anyone in the royal family. Still, i must question, is a keris that is gifted to another by a member of the royal family to a commoner considered to be a "Royal" keris? I am not suggesting an answer, merely posing the question.
However, if by "Royal" you are speaking of a keris that might be personally owned and carried by a member of the royal family i strongly suspect that this is not an example of that. I do realize that the internet is filled with false information, but i did manage to find this example of a Keris Nagasapto supposedly made for Pakubuwono VII (seventh Susuhunan from 1830 to 1858). Personally, when i think of what a "Royal" keris is i think about keris that have been carried by members of the royal family, not just gifted to commoners or held in storage by the Kraton for one reason or another. Others may have a different standard. :shrug:

[A. G. Maisey]

Willem, the gonjo on this keris is a barely acceptable replacement, the keris itself is very ordinary.

If the story is true, it may be able to be considered to be a royal gift.

But this raises the question of royalty in Central Jawa.

Javanese rulers had more than one official wife, and many unofficial wives (selir). My housekeeper of many years claimed descent from one such unofficial wife of Pakubuwono X.

Pakubuwono XII (1925 -- 2004) had six wives, and from these six wives he had 15 sons and 20 daughters. He also had an unknown number of selir and an unknown number of children from these selir.

Over the years I have known many people who can claim royal descent --- taxi drivers, shop assistants, factory workers, office workers, accountants, a physician.

There is nothing at all special about being able to claim royal descent, unless one is accepted as an active part of the hierarchy of the Keraton. The minor children pretty much don't bother, and simply get on with their lives.

This keris may or may not be a gift from one such person. It may or may not be a gift from the Susuhunan of Surakarta himself, but whoever gifted it, it remains a very, very ordinary keris.

EDIT

Willem, I've just read through this thread from the beginning.

I believe you already have a very clear answer on the "royalty" thing, given on more than one occasion, and by more than one person.

[asomotif]

Dear Alan,

Thank you for the interesting information about royalty in central Jawa.

Indeed reading back the entire thread most questions are answered.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate every reaction, but basically David and your good self are the main participants.

I am looking to keris from a very western point of view and the esoteric aspect is something I respect, but it does not play any role for me.

So if I check the Unique Selling Points of this particular keris as stated in the listing I have the following resume :

- KRATON keris :
not likely
- KRATON gift :
could be, as some kraton gifts can be of low quality and many can claim royalty
- GOOD FORGING proven by balance of the keris :
No relation between balance and good forging. it is more about center of gravity. (PS, I tried to balance my Zwilling kitchenknife. it was very difficult, altough it really does the job in the kitchen)
- GOOD FIT of the keris in Scabbard :
No, not really a good fit. Might be due to the replaced gonjo.
- ROYAL FAMILY CREST on pendok :
A not recognisable crest and a very common decoration.
- RED CLOTH insertion in the pendok claiming kraton use :
Not true, kraton use would mean red paint. cloth can be inserted at any time.
- SELUT :
1970's selut, a bit strange on a keris claimed to be mid 19th cent.
- UNIQUE MENDAK with the name of the banker :
No firm answer on this one, but personally I think this was part of some office utensil. maybe a stamp combined with upper and lower part of a mendak.

Somebody bought a poor keris with a rich story.

Best regards,
Willem

[A. G. Maisey]

Willem, I have interpolated my response:-

- KRATON keris :
not likely

AGREED

- KRATON gift :
could be, as some kraton gifts can be of low quality and many can claim royalty

AGREED

- GOOD FORGING proven by balance of the keris :
No relation between balance and good forging. it is more about center of gravity. (PS, I tried to balance my Zwilling kitchenknife. it was very difficult, altough it really does the job in the kitchen)

YES, THE KERIS BALANCING THING IS A PARTY TRICK, ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE QUALITY OF THE KERIS

- GOOD FIT of the keris in Scabbard :
No, not really a good fit. Might be due to the replaced gonjo.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THE FIT OF AN OLD KERIS TO AN OLD SCABBARD IS NOT REALLY ALL THAT IMPORTANT. YES, I KNOW I'M VOICING A DIFFERENT OPINION TO THAT OF MANY VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE COLLECTORS LIVING OUTSIDE INDONESIA. PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES.
I'M NOT GOING USE THE SPACE NEEDED TO SUPPORT WHAT I HAVE JUST WRITTEN, BUT THE PRIMARY ARGUMENT THAT ITS ALL ABOUT THE MAN, NOT THE CLOTHES HE'S WEARING.



- ROYAL FAMILY CREST on pendok :
A not recognisable crest and a very common decoration.

YES

- RED CLOTH insertion in the pendok claiming kraton use :
Not true, kraton use would mean red paint. cloth can be inserted at any time.

TRUE, BUT RED IN THIS CONTEXT COULD BE READ AS AN INDICATOR OF RANK. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS, I AM SAYING IT IS POSSIBLE

- SELUT :
1970's selut, a bit strange on a keris claimed to be mid 19th cent.

YES

- UNIQUE MENDAK with the name of the banker :
No firm answer on this one, but personally I think this was part of some office utensil. maybe a stamp combined with upper and lower part of a mendak.

POSSIBLY

Somebody bought a poor keris with a rich story.

YEAH --- WELL YOU KNOW WHAT WE SAY ABOUT THAT. NO NEED TO REPEAT IT.

[asomotif]

- GOOD FORGING proven by balance of the keris :
No relation between balance and good forging. it is more about center of gravity. (PS, I tried to balance my Zwilling kitchenknife. it was very difficult, altough it really does the job in the kitchen)


Sorry, can not resist to post this one.

[David]

Well, it does look like a good knife... ;) :)

[Rick]

Without the other.

It's the fork that is the unsung hero.

[asomotif]

Without the other.

It's the fork that is the unsung hero.

Yep, same as the scabbard in the sellers pictures ;)

Without the fork I did not manage, probably due to bad forging ;)

[mariusgmioc]

Sorry, can not resist to post this one.

BRILLIANT! :)

[rasjid]

Just to add a little info from my experience about the Selut. I saw and bought the exact same selut during the 2008 in Jakarta market. Sold either in chrome silver or chrome gold.
Someone told me that he owns the same version in full gold (according to him) but I never hold and see with my own eyes, so I don't know. I just agreed with the owner statement and maybe its before 2000? I don't know.

regards,
rasjid

[Sajen]

Just to add a little info from my experience about the Selut.

Have also such a selut, bought 2001 in Indonesia. :rolleyes:

[A. G. Maisey]

Post #17 is a very good and clear picture of the lambang Karaton Surakarta, however, when this gets put on to a pendok its looks a little bit different.

Here is a pic of the Lambang Karaton Surakarta as we would expect to see it on a pendok.