guardless nimcha

[kronckew]

moroccan? berber? spanish colonial? just acquired this one, looks like it was made this way from a local copy of a european trade blade and has been shortened after a break. eyebrow marks both sides, no sign it ever had any guard that i can see. metal plate both ends of the horn grip, pommel one looks like steel. blade 20 in., 25 1/4 in. overall, 466 grams (1.03 lb.) on it's way over from france...

[kahnjar1]

I would term this a "tribal" made sword. Certainly the general shape of the hilt is Nimchalike. The blade as you say is something which has been shortened judging by the fullers.
I have a few other "tribal" swords with different types of blades, and hilts made in similar shape to better quality "originals".
Some pics herewith....
Stu

[ariel]

The last one looks South Aravian to me : a real Nimcha:-)

[kahnjar1]

Yes I agree South Arabian/Yemeni, BUT the blade is double edged, not single as IMHO one would expect on a hilt of this style.
Stu

[ariel]

Old European one? Markings would suggest so.

[kahnjar1]

Likely I think...........

[Jim McDougall]

I think these very rugged and simple type weapons, with all the inherent flaws and crude demeanor are unique in the kind of mysterious charm they hold. The 'tribal' classification I believe may be well applied and quite possibly denoting Bedouin types of sabre from regions in Sinai and Negev. It seems we have had numbers of these rugged variations over the years which have fallen collectively into this category. Lofty would probably best confirm this and perhaps any particular tribal connections if applicable.

The horn grip roughly approximating the well known 'nimcha' style seems clearly just that rather than a dismantled hilt from one. The blade indeed does seem to be of European style in the fashion of blades found on many in various Yemeni swords. I am inclined to agree that this is probably native forged and dramatically repofiled, the dentated arcs are meant to simulate the 'sickle marks' but obviously not properly formed or placed.

The images posted by Stu are great, and well display some of the key variations of swords known to appear in Yemeni context .

1. One of the swords with the hilt once widely held to be of Zanzibar, but as shown has proven to be of a type with variant ring loop on the guard, and often found in Yemen, and while some associations may involve Zanzibar it is not a localized form from there.

2. This one is great! and from 2009 (TVV), these blades were usually straight (this one apparently altered) and of a form known from Solingen exporter F. W. Holler....in this case the ricasso block marked with MK enclosed in Seal of Solomon, adopted in Ethiopia c. 1874. The MK is believed to M Kevorkoff & Co. Harrar (Ethiopia) one of the number of Armenian merchants importing arms for Emperor Menelik II in the 1890s .
The lozenges on the hilt motif is unclear, but these diamond shapes popular on many Sudanese hilts around turn of century, usually in linear configuration.

3 . This seems to resemble one of the unusually modern looking espada ancha type swords with an older cavalry blade. Uncertain on attribution.

4. Indeed a Yemeni sword, the karabela style hilt (often termed 'hawks head' in Arabian parlance), is well known there and usually had shorter sabre blades, with the neck of the grip wire wrapped. The blade is of European form usually seen in the Red Sea sphere and found on kaskara. In this case, the rounded tip suggests it may have at some point been in the Omani sphere and perhaps either intended for or actually in one of the sa'if often referred to as 'kattara'.
The markings are intended to represent European, probably the celestial grouping of Schimmelbusch & Kirshbaum of Solingen who were suppliers of blades c. 1802-91. The European groupings usually have a single moon and six stars or at times a comet with stars.
This combination has been known around in these regions for some time and the sequence and configurations seem to have wide variation.

In any case, this particular sword as noted does seem to have Arab inclination but it would be hard to say whether to the Bedouin attribution or more broadly other use in Yemeni context as with other examples shown.
The Spanish colonial connection is more tenuous, but certainly viable as the features of these 'nimcha' style hilts was quite present in many of their innovations and this simple context sword may well have been intended for machete type use in the tropical climes of their colonies in Central America and Caribbean.

[kahnjar1]

I think these very rugged and simple type weapons, with all the inherent flaws and crude demeanor are unique in the kind of mysterious charm they hold. The 'tribal' classification I believe may be well applied and quite possibly denoting Bedouin types of sabre from regions in Sinai and Negev. It seems we have had numbers of these rugged variations over the years which have fallen collectively into this category. Lofty would probably best confirm this and perhaps any particular tribal connections if applicable.

The horn grip roughly approximating the well known 'nimcha' style seems clearly just that rather than a dismantled hilt from one. The blade indeed does seem to be of European style in the fashion of blades found on many in various Yemeni swords. I am inclined to agree that this is probably native forged and dramatically repofiled, the dentated arcs are meant to simulate the 'sickle marks' but obviously not properly formed or placed.

The images posted by Stu are great, and well display some of the key variations of swords known to appear in Yemeni context .

1. One of the swords with the hilt once widely held to be of Zanzibar, but as shown has proven to be of a type with variant ring loop on the guard, and often found in Yemen, and while some associations may involve Zanzibar it is not a localized form from there.

2. This one is great! and from 2009 (TVV), these blades were usually straight (this one apparently altered) and of a form known from Solingen exporter F. W. Holler....in this case the ricasso block marked with MK enclosed in Seal of Solomon, adopted in Ethiopia c. 1874. The MK is believed to M Kevorkoff & Co. Harrar (Ethiopia) one of the number of Armenian merchants importing arms for Emperor Menelik II in the 1890s .
The lozenges on the hilt motif is unclear, but these diamond shapes popular on many Sudanese hilts around turn of century, usually in linear configuration.

3 . This seems to resemble one of the unusually modern looking espada ancha type swords with an older cavalry blade. Uncertain on attribution.

4. Indeed a Yemeni sword, the karabela style hilt (often termed 'hawks head' in Arabian parlance), is well known there and usually had shorter sabre blades, with the neck of the grip wire wrapped. The blade is of European form usually seen in the Red Sea sphere and found on kaskara. In this case, the rounded tip suggests it may have at some point been in the Omani sphere and perhaps either intended for or actually in one of the sa'if often referred to as 'kattara'.
The markings are intended to represent European, probably the celestial grouping of Schimmelbusch & Kirshbaum of Solingen who were suppliers of blades c. 1802-91. The European groupings usually have a single moon and six stars or at times a comet with stars.
This combination has been known around in these regions for some time and the sequence and configurations seem to have wide variation.

In any case, this particular sword as noted does seem to have Arab inclination but it would be hard to say whether to the Bedouin attribution or more broadly other use in Yemeni context as with other examples shown.
The Spanish colonial connection is more tenuous, but certainly viable as the features of these 'nimcha' style hilts was quite present in many of their innovations and this simple context sword may well have been intended for machete type use in the tropical climes of their colonies in Central America and Caribbean.
Hi Jim and thanks for the concise reply.
You are right about #2 in as much as it was originally discussed by, and was originally owned by Teodor. At the time we discussed at length re the blade being reshaped. If I remember correctly, agreement was reached that it has always been curved, as the decoration along the trough of twin fullers is NOT stretched or distorted in one fuller as it would be if the blade had been later curved. Decoration in BOTH fullers match exactly. I have not got on file a full length pic of the decoration but have attached one showing the beginning of the decoration at the hilt end. You can see that it is quite definite here, as it is along the whole blade, so any distortion would be clear to see. Also a pic attached showing the Lion of Judea mark which is common on (particularly) Ethiopian blades.
It must be remembered here that Wilkinson exported MANY bare blades to the Middle East, as did various Solingen makers, and these were locally mounted.
Stu

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Stu, for the clarification on that blade issue. I must admit that the idea of straightening or curving these blades was kind of an issue for me....the big question......why? As seen with the karabela hilt (usually with short blade curved) it was no issue to mount with a long broadsword blade.
On many Algerian nimchas you will see them mounted with full size straight blades often and varying with backsword and broadsword blades....and it seems the apparent indifference carries throughout these regions.

On the MK with Star of Solomon surround, it was once suggested that this was connected to the Wilkinson swords often exported to Abyssinia, however that is only a superficial assumption as the Star was like the Lion of Judah, part of Ethiopian symbolism of the times.

Absolutely right, Wilkinson indeed sent many blades to Ethiopia toward the end of the century, in fact into the 1930s (I have one of the catalogues), but these were marked. The unmarked were likely their subcontractors but hard to say. In the case of Solingen, they were known to produce 'blanks' as the overbuilding of the industry during the Franco-Prussian war created huge competition for business as the war ended as did demand.

Whatever the case, the volume of blades into the Red Sea trade, as well as many entrepots in North Africa, East Africa and Arabia built huge stockpiles of blades.

Excellent examples....I really like these swords!!!!:)

[ariel]

These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly...
I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))

[Jim McDougall]

These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly...
I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))


They're kinda the 'rat rods' of the sword world!!! :)

[kahnjar1]

These swords are so primitive and crude, such low quality and so ugly...
I have no idea why do I love them so much.... :-))))))
Obviously not too primitive or they would not exist still. Remember that the modern plethora of arms did not exist in the era these would have been made. Good supply would only have been available to those tribes which supported the current Rulers/Colonial Powers.
Look at the crude weapons and firearms used by the various resistance fighters during WW2........not too primitive to help win a war against a foe which had VERY good quality arms and armour!!

[kronckew]

may be crude, but not prissy overdecorated wall hanging 'look at me' decoraters. functional killers meant to be used. simple, rough around the edges, beautiful and deadly like a jaguar. when things go bump in the night, these are the ones you turn to.

[ariel]

Well, guys, I was being facetious :-)

They ARE simple and crude in comparison with refined Persian shamshirs or Ottoman yataghans, but they are brutal, minimalistically-functional and shabbily decorated. They are serious fighting instruments, not wall hangers.
Love them.
I have about half a dozen of them and need more. Just in case of zombie invasion:-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved...

The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa.

They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades.

For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11373&highlight=Gurade

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Guys, I totally understood what Ariel meant. I often use the term 'ersatz'.
Dicitionary references;
ERSATZ: ....made or used as a substitute, typically an inferior one...
most commonly having 'wartime' connotations,

In my early days of collecting I could not afford the often beautiful pieces being bought by more seasoned collectors, and often got the worn, darkly patinated and sometimes damaged examples typically passed over.
They were often derisively referred to as 'a dogs dinner' (please animal activists no offense meant, it was the phrase used).

However, I knew these were genuinely used, and often they were made up of often incongruent components, but clearly effectively constructed. One of my favorite fields was Spanish Colonial, and the weapons out of these often remote frontier regions were sometimes even bizarre.
One cut down 'dragoon' blade (Spanish motto) had a cast brass briquette hilt and a three bar cavalry guard, all three efficiently melded together.

Obviously this was the makeshift work of some frontier blacksmith using broken parts in an effort to produce a serviceable weapon.

For those of us intrigued by the deep history often held in these outwardly unusual and incongruently assembled weapons, these are pure treasure!
The term 'effective' is key, and while far from the 'cookie cutter' examples found in references, these, while not 'pretty'...certainly were capable of accomplishing their task.

An entire book could be written on the many forms of 'ersatz' weapons used throughout history. Remember, even in the medieval times and battles focused on armored knights and magnificently armed nobles and those of standing....the rank and file were often peasants using all manner of tools and implements as their weapons. Many weapons indeed evolved out of such implements i.e. bill hooks etc.

[kahnjar1]

Salaams all... Notwithstanding the project sword at #1. What we have here are Yemeni rehilts ... These are made from blades imported from Ethiopia and rehilted in Sanaa. The tendency was to remove the Rhino hilts from these and re use them on Jambia. However not all Ethiopian blades had hilts and the trade was therefor in bulk inter souk between Ethiopian dealers and the Sanaa market traders who once they were re hilted either sold them in the souk to tourists or because there is no tourist trade there now...war.... these went on the regional souk network turning up in Muscat, Muttrah and Sharjah as well as Salalah. There is some evidence that some straight blades were altered to curved...

The bulk of blades were and are... (it still goes on today) ...European . The backyard engineering, rough and ready hilt production, should not confuse the issue as to origin. These weapons do not appear in Butins chart...why? They are relatively recent...simple, rough, cheap, backyard workshop knock ups...from Sanaa.

They are interesting since they used to be complete fighting weapons with Rhino Hilts... and now traded inter souk as tourist items... having actually been combat swords from Ethiopia with reasonable and effective European blades..Some are fitted up with cheap pot metal and traded as original ancient swords...Rather a fictional ending to what were famous blades.

For the Rhino hilt probably originally on these Ethiopian blades see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11373&highlight=Gurade

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
You are of course entitled to your opinion as to where these originated, but it would be useful to have some hard evidence as backup. None of these are tourist items. They all predate tourism as we know it.
The only blade shown here which is Ethiopian is #2 which is discussed above as maybe being reshaped. This is the only one which would MAYBE fit with your comment that originally it had a Rhino hilt.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, thank you for the insightful notes and comments. It seems that the information regarding the movement of swords out of Ethiopia into Yemen with the object of the rhino horn in the hilts for use on janbiyya and khanjhars has been around for some time.

I can recall hearing this from a number of individuals focused on weapons from Ethiopia and Arabia from about 10 or more years ago. It seemed like a quite plausible explanation for the number of Ethiopian blades turning up in Yemen and apparently hilted in San'aa.

What is most interesting is to have your insights into the activities of the various souks and commercially oriented production locations such as Mutrah and others who have produced considerable volume of 'combinations' using available components. It helps that you are there to view these things firsthand.

I think the biggest dilemma for collectors is examining the many variations and anomalies in these kinds of contexts, and determining which are actual ersatz weapons against those which are produced as 'souveniers'.

The term 'tourist' is misleading and ineffective, much as the word 'fake'.
The Yemen has virtually always been a volatile place, and the coup's, insurgencies, civil wars and general turbulence has provided a constant need for all manner of 'ersatz' weaponry.
In all of this, various major powers have had in place forces in or near these regions, and since the Sudan campaigns, there has been a cottage industry for 'souveniers' for occupying or posted forces.
This is the situation for many of these kinds of items, though a 'tourist' market may not be present.

I think it is important to have input from all sides when trying to evaluate these kinds of conundrums, and naturally we all form our own opinions.
I recall years ago when a sword claimed to be 'Revolutionary War' was being 'discussed' with powerful observations from reputable individuals extolling its authenticity. That is, until a source came in to reveal it was actually a reproduction......when questioned, he explained that he himself had made the sword several years earlier !

While actually witnessing the production of swords using these kinds of components might not constitute evidence to some, to me it seems pretty compelling. Sometimes if that individual has considerable background pertaining directly to the business itself, it further enhances that perspective.

[kronckew]

my sword arrived this morning, the grip is ox horn. dimensions as in my post no. 1. sword is solid, nice weight & balance. blade is thicker than i expected. still quite sharp. 7mm thick at the 'guard' which is a 2mm thick brass oval that fits the grip shape. the blade is 33mm wide at the guard plate. distal tapered evenly to 2mm thick just before the tip. i like it a lot. ;)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

You are of course entitled to your opinion as to where these originated, but it would be useful to have some hard evidence as backup. None of these are tourist items. They all predate tourism as we know it.
The only blade shown here which is Ethiopian is #2 which is discussed above as maybe being reshaped. This is the only one which would MAYBE fit with your comment that originally it had a Rhino hilt.


Salaams Khanjar 1. I agree that hard evidence is worth observing when it exists. In this case the souk chain between Ethiopia and Yemen (Sanaa) and Salalah and Muttrah are well documented as being linked. Sanaa now, because of the war ...has no tourists... trades blades onward up the chain in huge consignments. These are first stripped of their rhino hilts and either refitted with backyard hilts as at #2 or are simply traded en masse on to Muttrah/Salalah. Something similar happens the other way between India and Sharjah souk with Tulvar blades....Muttrah fits the blades up with other hilts often extending the tangs to enable Omani Long Hilts to be fitted. Any other suitable looking hilts are thrown together with whatever spare blades are deemed potentially pass offable to gullible tourists passing through.

That was the reason why I wanted to show the Ethiopian hilts in my last post in their original form...

Thousands of such mixtures have been put together and sold there since 1970. So many have been offloaded to the worlds unsuspecting tourists that they almost form a sword type in their own right...The Muttrah!!.

Some are cleverly put together and certain museums in the area have been sold what appear to be genuine Portuguese 16th C Swords when in fact they are not. Oddly they are not technically fakes... a word many people don't like to use ...understandably... and since they are original fighting blades often European trade blades sent to Ethiopia... it takes some sorting out. However original swords they are certainly not...as the attempt is to pass them off for something else... So they are technically fighting blades re-hilted traded played with and manipulated for a better price and but for the fighting blades they are by any stretch of the imagination fake... or should I say faked...? clearly a better use of the word....and in an effort to sell...gain a better price... fitted up with hilts they were never associated with before.

Or as one tourist is said to have exclaimed.."Well if that isn't a fake its a damned good copy of one" !!

Come to Muttrah and see the hundreds of imported Ethiopian blades and visit the workshops that they are played with in... Sanaa did something similar by joining rough iron hilts made in basic workshops having stripped off the Rhino Hilts usually for Jambias... but because the souk there is largely defunct these re-hilts also get shipped into Muttrah.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim, thank you for the insightful notes and comments. It seems that the information regarding the movement of swords out of Ethiopia into Yemen with the object of the rhino horn in the hilts for use on janbiyya and khanjhars has been around for some time.

I can recall hearing this from a number of individuals focused on weapons from Ethiopia and Arabia from about 10 or more years ago. It seemed like a quite plausible explanation for the number of Ethiopian blades turning up in Yemen and apparently hilted in San'aa.

What is most interesting is to have your insights into the activities of the various souks and commercially oriented production locations such as Mutrah and others who have produced considerable volume of 'combinations' using available components. It helps that you are there to view these things firsthand.

I think the biggest dilemma for collectors is examining the many variations and anomalies in these kinds of contexts, and determining which are actual ersatz weapons against those which are produced as 'souveniers'.

The term 'tourist' is misleading and ineffective, much as the word 'fake'.
The Yemen has virtually always been a volatile place, and the coup's, insurgencies, civil wars and general turbulence has provided a constant need for all manner of 'ersatz' weaponry.
In all of this, various major powers have had in place forces in or near these regions, and since the Sudan campaigns, there has been a cottage industry for 'souveniers' for occupying or posted forces.
This is the situation for many of these kinds of items, though a 'tourist' market may not be present.

I think it is important to have input from all sides when trying to evaluate these kinds of conundrums, and naturally we all form our own opinions.
I recall years ago when a sword claimed to be 'Revolutionary War' was being 'discussed' with powerful observations from reputable individuals extolling its authenticity. That is, until a source came in to reveal it was actually a reproduction......when questioned, he explained that he himself had made the sword several years earlier !

While actually witnessing the production of swords using these kinds of components might not constitute evidence to some, to me it seems pretty compelling. Sometimes if that individual has considerable background pertaining directly to the business itself, it further enhances that perspective.


Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post... The dilemma at Muttrah is so serious in the sword collecting world that it is rather like a spurious 1970 factory springing up and knocking out what look like perfectly legitimate weapons for the century or two before! Of the many hundreds of weapons for sale in Muttrah there is more than likely hardly one which is or could be said to be original. It would be a great test for the Forum members to spend an hour in there and to come out with a genuine item...I could arrange for the maker to meet the purchaser at the exit gate to explain exactly how he made the item... and where the parts came from... but of course I cannot.

I am not at all certain about the project sword which almost appears with a sort of Hangar hilt and it is not one I am that familiar with nor does it appear to be A Muttrah Sword... I hope therefor that my slight change of tac does not thwart that issue...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post... The dilemma at Muttrah is so serious in the sword collecting world that it is rather like a spurious 1970 factory springing up and knocking out what look like perfectly legitimate weapons for the century or two before! Of the many hundreds of weapons for sale in Muttrah there is more than likely hardly one which is or could be said to be original. It would be a great test for the Forum members to spend an hour in there and to come out with a genuine item...I could arrange for the maker to meet the purchaser at the exit gate to explain exactly how he made the item... and where the parts came from... but of course I cannot.

I am not at all certain about the project sword which almost appears with a sort of Hangar hilt and it is not one I am that familiar with nor does it appear to be A Muttrah Sword... I hope therefor that my slight change of tac does not thwart that issue...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Perhaps some pics of the swords in the Muttrah Souk.......? If there are as many as you say, then I am sure that Members here would be interested to see.......

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Perhaps some pics of the swords in the Muttrah Souk.......? If there are as many as you say, then I am sure that Members here would be interested to see.......


Salaams Khanjar1. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15083 where I started formatting the Muttrah souk content and where you will see almost identical swords from there... because that is where they arrive from Sanaa with the roughly made iron rehilts done in Sanaa...from Ethiopian blades having had their Rhino hilts removed usually to be put on Jambias ; originally European trade blades. Souk traders consign hundreds of blades at a time... sometimes thousands... and push out huge volumes to the mass tourist market mainly at Muttrah. This is done in a variety of configurations with Omani Long Hilts and others being subsequently fitted to extended tangs on any blade they want...in the workshop a short distance away. This has been done since 1970 when the veil was lifted on Oman as it rejoined the modern world. This rehilting became almost accidentally prolific taking on a momentum of its own and flooding thousands of swords out onto the worlds collections..Collectors know them simply by the Sooq name..as;

"Ah thats a Muttrah" such is their dominance as an invented breed over the past almost half a century!!

Sitting opposite the souk entrance there are often cruise ships containing 3 to 4 thousand tourists...and they pummel the souk with groups eager to buy. The projected runway reconfiguration at Seeb the main Muscat Airport is gearing up to take millions more tourists ...and the main souk is Muttrah.

I have a visit to Muttrah soon and will take my camera but you will find many examples on my work on Omani swords where they come into conflict with what are purely made up swords thrown together for the tourist market all over this Forum. Your sword/swords are Sanaa rehilts in the case of the rough worked hilts..though the blades are Ethiopian (European trade blades). These also often appear and tourists buy them in Muttrah. Since no one else buys them I tend to regard them as Tourist swords.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Ibrahiim,
Here are some of mine.
Scabbards are very old, the leather is torn and dry and the wooden inserts are thin, irregular, worn-out and dark, the blades are local, nothing European or Ethiopian, with local damages and patches of old patina.

Are they also new from Muttrah??

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=ariel]Ibrahiim,
.. Here are some of mine.
Scabbards are very old, the leather is torn and dry and the wooden inserts are thin, irregular, worn-out and dark, the blades are local, nothing European or Ethiopian, with local damages and patches of old patina.

Are they also new from Muttrah??[/QUOTE

Salaam Ariel.. Thank you for the pictures and an excellent question.. No these are not Muttrah.. taking these from the top I think the first is either Syrian or Othmali.
The second and third are Yemeni probably hilted in Sanaa.
The fourth is a Karabela. Othmali but possibly a Red Sea variant.

The almost impossible decision is hidden around the number two and three since swords rehilted in Sanaa similar to this were sold to tourists there.. but because of strife and war that market vanished.. and hilted and unhilted blades ... we're recycled to Salalah and Muttrah. All l can be pretty sure of is they (2 and 3) are Sanaa rehilts...

Regards,
lbrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

What is Othmali?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

What is Othmali?


Salaams Ariel... That was my pathetic attempt at spelling Othmanli on my handheld; at 120 kph in a crosswind... Ottoman to the initiated...awfully sorry for the spelling mistake. :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

moroccan? berber? spanish colonial? just acquired this one, looks like it was made this way from a local copy of a european trade blade and has been shortened after a break. eyebrow marks both sides, no sign it ever had any guard that i can see. metal plate both ends of the horn grip, pommel one looks like steel. blade 20 in., 25 1/4 in. overall, 466 grams (1.03 lb.) on it's way over from france...


Salaams kronckew ...I wondered about your project sword and thought it may be evolved from something vaguely from the Red Sea region perhaps even a reworked Karabela hilt or rehilted with a reworked hilt that I cannot decide upon... It has been severely chopped about and I cannot trust the notch below the pommel since it looks not original... The blade I cannot crack but it is similar to those shown by Ariel above with no apparent markings...other than the very clear ...almost too perfect hogs back marks...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Ibrahiim,
Assigning Ottoman origin to these swords is a pretty safe bet: till the end of WWI Syria, Iraq, Aravia were all Ottoman provinces. Ethnically, however, they have nothing to do with the core of the Ottoman Empire, i.e. Turkey.
Well, perhaps with the exception of the Karabela: even though it is clearly South Aravian, the name Karabela stems from the Turkish town Karabel. I doubt, however, that the original owner(s) ever called it by that name: just "sayf" :-)



As to ## 2 and 3, I re-examined them very carefully and could not find any evidence of re-hilting. There is still uncleaned black patina of the blades by the quillon block, the gaps between the blades and the handles are filled with old and crumbly mastique. The tang protrusions on the pommel are covered with very old patina and rust. The wooden handles are heavily patinated , with scars, losses and a myriad of old " kisses of time". If the re-hitting happened at all, it happened hell of a lot of years ago.

Sorry, old buddy, but you look at their pics, whereas I am holding them in my hands:-)

[estcrh]

Here are some similar examples, is there any argument about these examples being authentic?

[kahnjar1]

Hmmm. Interesting swords...must be recent Sana'a rehilts :rolleyes:
Hardly likely that such a well known dealer would try to pass off "fakes" as real swords.......

[estcrh]

Hmmm. Interesting swords...must be recent Sana'a rehilts :rolleyes:
Hardly likely that such a well known dealer would try to pass off "fakes" as real swords.......

Here is one that appears to be newly made, it was supposedly very recently purchased at the Janadriyah Festival outside of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. I have to think that this type of hilt is an older form that has been for some reason frequently copied as Ibrahiim points out. The question is how do you determine older ones from newer ones.

[ariel]

Here is one that appears to be newly made.... The question is how do you determine older ones from newer ones.

I guess you just gave an answer: it "appears" to be. In this case the rivets are shiny, the handle material is in an unusually good shape, the notch is still having traces of rough work not polished by years of contact with human hand.... Most bazaar forgers are not doctors Moriarty, the Napoleons of crime, and they leave myriad of small incongruities that tell experienced collectors that something is not entirely kosher, and that's usually enough for the old antennae to start twitching:-)

And when they do, just walk away.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here are some similar examples, is there any argument about these examples being authentic?


Salaams estcrh, These are excellent photographs and the descriptions blanket cover what has been part of the mystery surrounding these forms. It is well known that the Clauberg blades appear on many of these hilts..but as you see these are vastly different hilts; some roughly formed and others that are uniformally precise...in Rosewood and Horn or roughcast wood... The same with the ironwork...roughly hammered or precisely made with precast iron to the hilts... I think they form the origin of species of the later copies done in backyard workshops in and around Sanaa. There is no argument here...

These are in my view...some of the Zanzibar forms later copied in Sanaa. The Sanaa copies used Ethiopian blades having removed the Rhino hilt Gurade hilts and replaced (though not always) with poor quality iron. It still goes on today. Sanaa provides such stock to Muttrah, Salalah and no doubt Cairo, Istanbul and Sharjah souks. Regional variation in hilts is interesting with silver covering hilts in Saudia style sometimes in the Karabela form and other hilts decorated in pot metal...The chart by Butin shows many of the variations..but does not include Muttrah recent (since 1970)_ rehilts. In fact does not the chart by Butin below suggest a much more organised ..even industrial approach to mass turnout of the precise hilt form for which no one has put the finger upon ...Could it be Afghan production/ Indian contract?

Where I think the real intrigue exists is in discovering where the Moroccan and Zanzibar sword form sprouted out of... How did Spanish/Moroccan sword form get to the Indian Ocean and was it direct or indirect from Europe or the Philippines...or both. Was it by sea...or land? Or both!! What is the connection with Afghanistan and was there any collusion in these from Hadramaut or Hyderabad..and did the Yemeni influence in Hyderabad or India have any bearing on this trade?... How did Oman influence this weapons development and when did the Ivory gold inlaid weapons appear and was it at the time or before Said the Great took over Zanzibar as the capital of Oman in the late 1830s...? Where did the uniform hilt originate since it looks like a workshop or factory precise item rather than hand made ?... Could it have been Navy?...or military in its style?


For more blades at Muttrah see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15084&highlight=omani+souk


For a good example of the Ethiopian Gurade see http://stsathyre.tumblr.com/post/36447747789/art-of-swords-ethiopian-sword-dated-19th

As a general querry there seems to be a bell ringing on sword number 1009 on the Butin Chart ...does this hilt pommel remind us of an African shape but turned ?? That of the Billao of Somalia. Ilustrated below.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Most astutely observed Ibrahiim !!! That hilt with three prongs most certainly does resemble the Somalian 'billao' !!!
I wonder if there is more on the development of the billao, and obviously relationship to these nimchas. It seems these are shown in Elgood (Arabian Arms) as Hadhramauti, but it seems there are Indian counterparts.
More research!!!

[estcrh]

As a general querry there seems to be a bell ringing on sword number 1009 on the Butin Chart ...I enlarged it but is there a larger and clearer image of this chart, also is there a discription page which matches the numbers on the chart?

[ariel]

Bravo Ibrahiim!


I never had an inkling of a thought that Somali Billao and the South-Aravian Sayf may have common roots.

These are exactly the minutiae that allow us to make important connections!

Good job!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Bravo Ibrahiim!


I never had an inkling of a thought that Somali Billao and the South-Arabian Sayf may have common roots.

These are exactly the minutiae that allow us to make important connections!

Good job!

Salaams Ariel ..Thank you !! They may well be related. It is interesting that the form of hilt is also reflected in Saudia style often with a completely metal plated hilt..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I enlarged it but is there a larger and clearer image of this chart, also is there a discription page which matches the numbers on the chart?


Salaams estcrh, Thanks that's a great improvement !! Actually I haven't seen a descriptive chart but since they are numbered I suppose there is one... Anyone got the chart please??

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Most astutely observed Ibrahiim !!! That hilt with three prongs most certainly does resemble the Somalian 'billao' !!!
I wonder if there is more on the development of the billao, and obviously relationship to these nimchas. It seems these are shown in Elgood (Arabian Arms) as Hadhramauti, but it seems there are Indian counterparts.
More research!!!


Salaams Jim , I agree ...More research... I would like to place a further supposition here that indicates, perhaps, the true meaning behind the word (from the Baluch); Nimcha. It appears to concoct a single word from two . Nim meaning half and Cha being sword/blade. These blades are both long and short thus it may not mean half sword?...

Applied to this form, could it mean single edged sword?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

moroccan? berber? spanish colonial? just acquired this one, looks like it was made this way from a local copy of a european trade blade and has been shortened after a break. eyebrow marks both sides, no sign it ever had any guard that i can see. metal plate both ends of the horn grip, pommel one looks like steel. blade 20 in., 25 1/4 in. overall, 466 grams (1.03 lb.) on it's way over from france...


Salaams I saw that the original description by the seller indicated Morocco on this weapon... I can see why they thought this as the blade is similar to other examples from there..and the hilt could be a cut back altered one from that region. I have to say that the eyelash marks are very clear...almost too clear...but that could just be accurate strike marks..as opposed to more recent. Its very difficult especially just from a photo but I would go with that; Moroccan but with severe potential rehacking of the hilt..:)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Andreas]

I enlarged it but is there a larger and clearer image of this chart, also is there a discription page which matches the numbers on the chart?

You will find a digitized copy of Buttin's catalogue here http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6524676d
Plates I-XXXII at the end, the description for #1009 is on page 262.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ...and as a continuation of the Baluch clue... I Quote"

The East African Baloch.

In 1821, the Sultan and Imam of Oman, Seyyid Said bin Sultan Al Busaidi, hired an Iranian fleet to invade the islands and ports of East Africa. The Iranian fleet leased by the Sultan of Oman consisted mostly of Baluchi and Sindhi/Cutchi mercenaries, with a few Arab, Persian, and Pathan officers from India. Almost all of these, after their families had arrived from Iran and India, settled in the coastal towns in or around the forts and the newly built camps (e.g., Saa-teeni north of Zanzibar City and Fort Jesus in Mombasa – the largest fortification in East Africa), with the Baluchi cavalry settling in Zanzibar City at the site of the present Haile Selassie School."Unquote. and recommend the article from which this came at

http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/homistan/the_east_african_baloch.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

You will find a digitized copy of Buttin's catalogue here http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6524676d
Plates I-XXXII at the end, the description for #1009 is on page 262.


Salaams!! Excellently placed material here by Andreas. There are actually more charts relevant to the overall picture well stocked with similar swords. The charts are at the back of the digitized book.
I am considering at the moment how the name Nimcha evolved and if it is a Baluchi word (possibly Iranian Baluch) how it became diffused if in fact it did spread to North Africa ...or whether this is more to do with worldwide sword nomenclature rather than the sword itself ? There is some evidence which points in the Indo Baluch or Iranian Baluch direction not least the huge inclusion of Baluch mercenary groups on the Zanj coast...and employed by Said the Great from about 1830...and a large number of such forces in the Great Lakes. Where this fits in the jigsaw of Nimcha terminology ..I am still trying to discover. There is even a place in India called Nimcha !

In reference to a note I made earlioer on Zanzibar City ...From Wikepedia note;
Quote "Zanzibar City is the capital and largest city of Zanzibar, in Tanzania. It is located on the west coast of Unguja, the main island of the Zanzibar Archipelago, roughly due north of Dar es Salaam across the Zanzibar Channel.''Unquote. At its heart is the old town of Stonetown.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

In his book "The races of Afghanistan" Henry Bellew discusses Nimchas, "The Half-and-Half", ie mixed race or converted "Kaffirs"

And Elgood and others explained that the very term Nimcha stems from Arabic Nim, half, and -cha, a diminutive suffix.

Thus, nothing specific sword-related. Kind of "Shorty":-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In his book "The races of Afghanistan" Henry Bellew discusses Nimchas, "The Half-and-Half", ie mixed race or converted "Kaffirs"

And Elgood and others explained that the very term Nimcha stems from Arabic Nim, half, and -cha, a diminutive suffix.

Thus, nothing specific sword-related. Kind of "Shorty":-)


Salaams Ariel...I suspect this word has been misunderstood somewhere down the line. Nim isn't Arabic... Nuss would be...but Nim is Baluchi. it is also Persian (nim meaning half) as the mercenaries on the Zanj coast were largely from Iranian Baluchistan) Thus I suspect it was coined by the vast numbers of Baluch mercenaries on the Zanj not least the many squadrons employed to attack Fort Jesus by Said the Great after 1830...Please note the number of Baluch mercenaries also employed on exploration and with Burton far inland around the great lakes and in many places on the Zanj and of course stationed on Zanzibar.

Common practice in Baluch word twisting and bastardized phraseology I can see how Nimcha came about though I am still tracing the cha part...Does cha mean anything?....or is it just a handy ending... Nimcha... As a diminutive suffix yes I can see that and I use chamcha as another example...It means spoon...but the cha seems entirely superfluous except as a suffix of no meaning. When looking at the plural form it is important to be able to for the plural. In Army parlance Baluch if you want to say complicated mix up you use the singular and plural together agadam-bagadam... so I imagine swords... Nimchas would form around the structure Nimcha Chimcha....M is commonly substituted when nothing else works thus Gari Mari is plural for carts or cars. Table mable for tables. Kursi Mursi for chairs. There will be a quiz later on Baluch linguistics...

Oddly there is a Nimcha as a place in India which I am also looking at... What is more weird is how if this is a Baluch word did it backwash onto North African swords?....and when did the word start being used?...I might add that Nimcha are not at all all short as the Butin chart shows many full length and is why I posit that the term means single edged blade...of that type.

In addition I note a peculiarity on top of the Pommel of the Zanzibari type which has been considered before as a scorpion..but which I think is in fact a Turtle. That makes abundant sense as a ship borne weapon relating the type to the sea...(and that area; Zanzibar and North to Muscat as a huge Turtle breeding area)... The two ideas seem to interlock. The shorter version certainly advantageous at sea whilst the longer at Forts and shore locations. In both I would expect to see the Turtle insignia being common on the Zanzibar type and not on the Moroccan.... Which of course is true.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[kronckew]

...I might add that Nimcha are not at all all short as the Butin chart shows many full length and is why I posit that the term means single edged blade...of that type....

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)


my other nimcha (with a guard) has a 35 in. fullered single edge blade. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

my other nimcha (with a guard) has a 35 in. fullered single edge blade. :)


Salaams Kronkew ~ and is dated.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kronckew]

not sure what it is dated at though

marking:

[estcrh]

Salaams ...and as a continuation of the Baluch clue... I Quote"

The East African Baloch.

In 1821, the Sultan and Imam of Oman, Seyyid Said bin Sultan Al Busaidi, hired an Iranian fleet to invade the islands and ports of East Africa. The Iranian fleet leased by the Sultan of Oman consisted mostly of Baluchi and Sindhi/Cutchi mercenaries, with a few Arab, Persian, and Pathan officers from India. Almost all of these, after their families had arrived from Iran and India, settled in the coastal towns in or around the forts and the newly built camps (e.g., Saa-teeni north of Zanzibar City and Fort Jesus in Mombasa – the largest fortification in East Africa), with the Baluchi cavalry settling in Zanzibar City at the site of the present Haile Selassie School."Unquote. and recommend the article from which this came at

http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/homistan/the_east_african_baloch.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.Very interesting historical information.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahim, this is some most intriguing perspective on the seemingly most misunderstood term 'nimcha', which has long been included in the assembled glossary of classifying terms among arms collectors.
While Robert Elgood rightly noted the often misapplied use of the term in describing the sabres better described as Maghrebi sa'if (often Algerian also) as these typically had ful size blades, not 'half' or small/short as implied.

This is interesting investigative work in tracing the probable etymology of the term 'nim' and the variously interpreted suffix 'cha', in the use of this term collectively in describing many types of Arab sabres in this group.

It seems quite likely for the diffusion of the Baluch/ Iranian version of the word into Arab parlance and into a vernacular description used more collectively as you suggest.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahim, this is some most intriguing perspective on the seemingly most misunderstood term 'nimcha', which has long been included in the assembled glossary of classifying terms among arms collectors.
While Robert Elgood rightly noted the often misapplied use of the term in describing the sabres better described as Maghrebi sa'if (often Algerian also) as these typically had ful size blades, not 'half' or small/short as implied.

This is interesting investigative work in tracing the probable etymology of the term 'nim' and the variously interpreted suffix 'cha', in the use of this term collectively in describing many types of Arab sabres in this group.

It seems quite likely for the diffusion of the Baluch/ Iranian version of the word into Arab parlance and into a vernacular description used more collectively as you suggest.


Salaams Jim, What the map does not show is the other areas that Baluch mercenaries flowed into ... From our perspective there are two important omissions ...One is the Zanj where they were called into service after 1830 by Said the Great against Fort Jesus and the Portuguese enemy at the time. This was something of a pushover as it was disease that weakened the Portuguese but I earmark this as part of the conundrum addressed in the next paragraph. To the North is the region that is part of Afghanistan. To the West Persian controlled Baluchistan... The entire area of what we call Baluchistan may be thought of as more straddling these countries in an amorphous blob...but administered and owned by the countries of which they are painted upon. The other area was The Punjab South and East of Baluchistan. Said the Great favoured these tough tribal fighters and many remained in place until today as well as in Oman. The Sultan continues to recruit from Baluchistan in the Pakistani controlled region of Mekran. (Oman owned Gwadur port until 1950). ..though among those recruits it was often found soldiers from other areas were in the group. In the Zanj they were often found in the 19thC inland working with Tipu Tib and at Zanzibar. They also worked with Burton on his journeys to and from the African interior.

A couple of things struck me as interesting while I was thinking this through...The sword Nimcha as we know it can not have developed from scratch in Zanzibar waters... it must have come from North Africa either by desert or Sea or both. The first Europeans into the Indian Ocean were the Portuguese.

After the Portuguese left Bahrain, Musandam, Muscat(1650) and Zanzibar (1652) there was still a lot of activity and fighting as they struggled to hold parts of the Zanj etc... Said the Great attacked them at Fort Jesus in 1831? with his Mercenaries from Baluchistan... after that there was a general retreat and reformation built around Mozambique ...but insofar as the Zanj etc they were more or less absent. My question is this...

Was it not the Portuguese who brought the weapon from North Africa... and was it not also they who took the name Nimcha back to North African shores ...Nimcha..from the Baluch on the Zanj as their (the Portuguese) possessions in the Indian Ocean disintegrated ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ...To visualize how far the Nimcha spreads ...The Type Zanzibari (I suggest) here is something of a brain teaser... For this I illustrate the Comores situation... an island grouping not dissimilar to Zanzibar ...another slavery and spice islands grouping closer to Madagascar and seized by the French in the late 18oos...on research you will discover the Algerian connection in the Indian Ocean which will give you hours of fascinating study.

Not least among the conundrum encountered will be ..Was the Nimcha the result of Spanish, Portuguese, English, French sea going trade/war and did it enter the Indian Ocean around the Cape of Good Hope or via the Spanish via Accupulco and the Philipines or was this via an overland route ...Spanish Sahara perhaps or by ship down the Red Sea?...For certain it didn't just happen in Zanzibar...Someone brought the concept although it may have Morphed..What then was the influence of the Baluch mercenaries employed by Said the Great in Zanzibar and on the Zanj? To add a little spice to the problem we are dealing with two things...The actual weapon and the peculiar name... and how did it backwash to mean swords from here and from the North African coast?

Please also observe the formal almost exact engineering of a sword with quite marked disciplined design which to my eye is almost military in style and appears similar to Afghan blades. Hyderabad and Hadramaut seem invisibly linked with Yemeni(from Hadramaut ) mercenaries in Hyderabad dominant...and with the group name Jawsh ...Jeysh (ar. army)

~and I have to add research indicates blades entering the Indian Ocean from The West Indian region ..Bombay.

Your comments appreciated please.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[blue lander]

Here's my only Nimcha. One of the quillons is missing. The blade's very thin - you can see where they had to put a shunt in the hilt to make it fit. I assume the blade's european?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All...As part of a multi layered puzzle with this weapon viz;

On the Zanzibari sword hilt there are three dots often with their gold decoration removed. Does this signify something Talismanic?

The entire hilt takes on an animal outlook... Is it a Lion or Horse designed geometrically?

On top of the pommel are two projections possibly ears?

Over the top of the pommel is what I have previously suggested is a Turtle?

Incorporated with the three dots is an INVERTED V . Is this meant to signify a mouth?

What are the R figures on all the quillons and on the upper hand Guard.?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

These are all excellent and compelling questions Ibrahiim! I am hoping some out there with experience with weapons of these regions might have ideas concerning these features from examples they own or have owned, or perhaps material culture items with clues.

Such as the great entry some time ago you posted an example of an ivory embellished comb with similar features seen on the Zanzibari sabre posted here.

With the presumed zoomorphic character of the profiles of these hilts, it seems this dilemma prevails with quite a few ethnographic hilts, including the flyssa, karabela, the so called Berber sabres etc. There seems a strong possibility these are stylizations which have devolved into simply aesthetic forms with connections to any prototype long lost, whether on actual examples or from iconographic sources.

I would surely like to know others thoughts on this, as there must be other views.

[estcrh]

From George Stone.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent entry Estcrh!! Thank you.
I would like to add some notes which might be pertinent, especially as Stone has made reference to Egerton (1880) where he describes ' as Mahratta sabres (534,535).

Actually in Egerton the first reference #534 describes an iron hilt sabre , 'nimcha or tegha' date 1780, used by men of high rank.
#535 describes a nimcha of 2ft 8" from Vizianagram.

Neither is illustrated.

Curiously, Pant ("Indian Arms and Armour", Lahore, 1980, p.59) notes Stone and his description of the Moroccan nimcha correctly, however he claims that Egerton has referred to these as Mahratta sabres, which I cannot find evidence of.
Pant does claim that Egerton has wrongly equated nimcha with his own descriptions of tegha and goliah.

Clearly the term nimcha was in use in India, and as early as the years as Egerton did his research pre 1880. As Pant has noted, the term was used for 'small' in varied context, however it does not seem clearly applied as to a certain sword type.

Pant, on p.77 notes a nimcha shamshir (he often coupled terms) to refer to a 'miniature shamshir' intended for young princes, and describes it as a small sword slightly curved. He adds that one of these was used by Ibrahim Quli Khan in 1725 in an attack at Gujerat, noting reference to it from an 1889 record (A copy of the Akbar Nama).
It is unclear whether the narrative of the 1725 event uses the term nimcha or whether this was appended by Pant.

On p,169, Pant also notes that smaller jamadhars (katars) with blades 3-6" are referred to as 'nimcha' (=small).

These notes may add more benchmark data to seek more on the nimcha term.

We know that the Buttin reference (1933) #1009 to one of the Hadhramati style nimchas is simply referred to as Arab sa'if.

In the 2002 update of Egerton's 1896 revision including Arab arms,
#194 is one of the 'peaked' hilt style swords seen in the Stone plate, which is noted as probably a presentation sword of the 18th c. The nimcha term is absent.
#196 is one of the 'Hadhramauti' (sharply canted hilts) listed as Arab and from Yemen, and 'bought at Cairo'. Cairo would seem to have been an outfitting center and this with likely European blade. Again, the nimcha term is absent.

So now we can look into other references beyond these more familiar ones.

[Andreas]

Excellent entry Estcrh!! Thank you.
I would like to add some notes which might be pertinent, especially as Stone has made reference to Egerton (1880) where he describes ' as Mahratta sabres (534,535).

Actually in Egerton the first reference #534 describes an iron hilt sabre , 'nimcha or tegha' date 1780, used by men of high rank.
#535 describes a nimcha of 2ft 8" from Vizianagram.

Neither is illustrated.

Curiously, Pant ("Indian Arms and Armour", Lahore, 1980, p.59) notes Stone and his description of the Moroccan nimcha correctly, however he claims that Egerton has referred to these as Mahratta sabres, which I cannot find evidence of.
Pant does claim that Egerton has wrongly equated nimcha with his own descriptions of tegha and goliah.

Clearly the term nimcha was in use in India, and as early as the years as Egerton did his research pre 1880. As Pant has noted, the term was used for 'small' in varied context, however it does not seem clearly applied as to a certain sword type.

Pant, on p.77 notes a nimcha shamshir (he often coupled terms) to refer to a 'miniature shamshir' intended for young princes, and describes it as a small sword slightly curved. He adds that one of these was used by Ibrahim Quli Khan in 1725 in an attack at Gujerat, noting reference to it from an 1889 record (A copy of the Akbar Nama).
It is unclear whether the narrative of the 1725 event uses the term nimcha or whether this was appended by Pant.

On p,169, Pant also notes that smaller jamadhars (katars) with blades 3-6" are referred to as 'nimcha' (=small).

These notes may add more benchmark data to seek more on the nimcha term.

We know that the Buttin reference (1933) #1009 to one of the Hadhramati style nimchas is simply referred to as Arab sa'if.

In the 2002 update of Egerton's 1896 revision including Arab arms,
#194 is one of the 'peaked' hilt style swords seen in the Stone plate, which is noted as probably a presentation sword of the 18th c. The nimcha term is absent.
#196 is one of the 'Hadhramauti' (sharply canted hilts) listed as Arab and from Yemen, and 'bought at Cairo'. Cairo would seem to have been an outfitting center and this with likely European blade. Again, the nimcha term is absent.

So now we can look into other references beyond these more familiar ones.

Buttin in his catalogue refers to all his “nimcha” swords as saifs. He considers the type as the quintessential Arab sabre, with relatively minor differences in Moroccan swords, and attributes the origin of its form to a Sinhalese prototype.
I found another reference to the Indian nimcha, in a report by the French consul to Calcutta, describing the international exhibition of 1883. He mentions several swords from the Deccan by name, including the “Nimcha, a short sword, carried by the lower classes”.

[Jim McDougall]

Buttin in his catalogue refers to all his “nimcha” swords as saifs. He considers the type as the quintessential Arab sabre, with relatively minor differences in Moroccan swords, and attributes the origin of its form to a Sinhalese prototype.
I found another reference to the Indian nimcha, in a report by the French consul to Calcutta, describing the international exhibition of 1883. He mentions several swords from the Deccan by name, including the “Nimcha, a short sword, carried by the lower classes”.


Andreas, thank you so much! This is exactly what I always hope for in these discussions, other references not previously included; other sword examples from private collections as kindly posted by Kronckew; pertinent illustrative examples as always graciously entered by Estcrh and the key engagement in varying aspects of the topic by Ibrahiim.

These things are how we can bring the knowledge and advance on the understanding of these forms, as a team.

As you note, Buttin(publ.1933) did indeed refer collectively to these groups of sabres as Arabian saif, which I believe he felt served better to describe the entire spectrum rather than variations....though he does specify Moroccan in some examples. It is unclear whether he knew of, or used the term 'nimcha' in his collections or works.
In going through old notes, I found one of the key articles on this topic from Connoisseur magazine December 1975, by the Anthony North, " A Late 15th Century Italian Sword".
In the article he addresses the similarities in the Moroccan saif with an Italian short sabre of 15th century. In this Charles Buttin is mentioned with his comparisons of the kastane of Ceylon with European swords . In a paper he wrote ("Les Poignards et Les Sabres Marocaines", 'Hesperis' tome XXVI,published 1939), he noted an example of this hilt system as Spanish, however as North points out this was a North Italian sword in actuality.

I recall personal discussions with one of the Buttin family from 2004, and it was noted that Charles believed that the European swords had been influenced by the kastane. Obviously the early views of even the most venerable of authorities can have possible errors, just as his dating of some hilts of this form to the 14th and 15th century.
The earliest example we have found of the kastane with its guard in the familiar form is c. 1622 (probably slightly earlier).
The earliest known examples of the 'Moroccan' hilts are in English paintings of 1628 and 1640 .

There does seem to be a void between the late 15th century and the known 17th century examples of these swords in Morocco.
As noted swords with these style hilts are known in Mediterranian context with Italy late 15th, Moroccan early 17th, with the curious examples from India apparently later reflecting probable Arab influence via Hyderabad.
As noted, the kastane has its earliest appearance early 17th c.

So our question is , 'where are the examples of these distinctive multi quillon hilts in the 16th century? Perhaps knowing the location of their notable presence then might reveal more on the diffusion of the hilt form.

As for the term 'nimcha' it does seem selectively used but most evidence points to Indian context, although it does not seem to have been clearly understood by Egerton. Also another curious conflict, in Egerton it is noted the 'nimcha' was used by upper classes, however his emphasis seems to have been on the Deccan to Mahratta regions........the French consul noted by Andreas states conversely, the nimcha to lower classes?

[kronckew]

as mentioned in your last pgh. above, the 'lower' classes in many of these areas were the indigenous populations, the upper or ruling classes in the arab world of the time usually meant the turks, (and/or the brits ;)) who had their own historic arms systems. arms of the lower classes were not necessarily inferior in quality and effectiveness to those of their masters... as many of the latter found out. :) us colonials can be stroppy.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Kronckew! That adds some most interesting perspective in these descriptions used in these narratives.

Addendum to my notes in my previous post on the article by North (1975).
In my question wondering, if this Venetian sword was from the late 15th century, and the next appearances of these hilts don't turn up until early 17th, where were these in the 16th century?

I think I found the answer. In "Swords and Hilt Weapons" (ed. M. Coe, 1989), Anthony North wrote the chapter "Seventeenth Century Europe" (pp.72-83). On age 77, this exact sword from his 1975 article (a Royal Armouries holding) is captioned 'Venetian hanger, c 1620'.
Perhaps it was an unfortunate misspeak as I know I often do the same thing:) However, this clears up a very important point toward the ancestry and vintage of this familiar guard system.

In the same chapter, it is noted that loosely similar guards were well known on a number of European hangers in the first half of the century. It is also noted that in addition to the English paintings showing 'nimcha' style hilts of the 'Moroccan' form, another English painting of the period shows Col .Alexander Popham of Littlecote, Wiltshire, wearing a distinctly recognized 'kastane' with the serandipaya and Sinhalese lion clearly seen.

This would place our terminus ante quem right in the mid to latter 16TH
century for the hilt form with these distinctive quillons and knuckleguard.
It does not help us determine whether Ceylon was source for the style, or Italy, but I would personally bet on Italy, as they were the innovators in the developing schools of fence. They also set the pace for weapons style and innovation in Europe in these times.
The kastane was a status oriented dress sword which likely evolved in the period noted as a result of European trade contact.
However it should be noted that Sinhalese craftsmen did often craft carved hilts on many European hangers and swords for colonial clients. It is often suggested that the lion heads of the kastane may have popularized the placing of busts of human heads and the use of animal heads on sword hilts.

[estcrh]

So is the nimca based on a European sword, or are the European swords with a similar hilt copys of nimcha, which came first?

Glaive de l'Ecole de Mars

[Jim McDougall]

So is the nimca based on a European sword, or are the European swords with a similar hilt copys of nimcha, which came first?

Glaive de l'Ecole de Mars


That is an interesting question, and becomes truly a conundrum when the views of arms researchers of the stature of Charles Buttin suggest that the Ceylonese kastane may have been the inspiration for the European swords with such guard systems.
These types of guards as well as the knucklebow were not particularly key in swords of the Indian subcontinent, which was the source as I understand for much of the design of the kastane as far as decorative motif.

Meanwhile, Italy was keenly involved in the developing styles of sword play and the innovative hand protections that came with it, hence the evolution of the complex hilt rapier. These evolutions of guard systems as noted, were taking place as early as the 16th century and in degree even earlier.

The sword play of India and most 'ethnographic' regions including Arabia, Central Asia, etc. was primarily based on defense with a shield and not sword to sword combat.
This is why the so called 'firangi' or Hindu basket hilt evolved from the indigenous khanda, by adding the guard in response to European influence.
The knuckle guard began appearing on various ethnic sword forms with the same kind of European influence through trade and colonialization.

There were in many cases minor influences on European swords in later times as the attraction to 'exotica' lent to using certain styles in certain forms. However this was more of a unique case, such as Japanese styling such as shakudo in 18th century small swords, and the karabela style of the Middle East becoming well known in Poland. It is known that the sabres of the Ottomans became adopted into European style.

Returning to the nimcha, in my opinion, the guard system came from the Italian hilts of 16th century as noted by North (1975), and entered various spheres via the trade of Venice. It has long been suggested that numerous edged weapons of North Africa are directly linked to Italian forms, with various elements in blades and or hilts.

Its transmission to Ceylon was most certainly indirect, probably through Portuguese but with that possibly through Italian influence as well, but in other regions. The swords of Italy were the pace setters for Spain and Portugal in many cases, just as in Europe.

Thank you for asking this, and the great images comparing the Moroccan sa'if and the French academy sword, which was from the 1790s. This was another example of the counter influence of 'foreign' arms to European, which was prevalent after the Napoleonic campaigns in Egypt. The famed 'mameluke' hilt sabre became popular for officers throughout Europe and is still used today in the officers swords of the USMC .

[kronckew]

the french ecole de mars sword is on my list of swords to acquire. at it's bottom. one of the ugliest useless cumbersome looking swords i have seen including some modern frangible stainless steel 'fantasy' wall hangers. i include the ecole in the 'fantasy' category, it's only saving grace is that it is not stainless.the steel part of the guard & knuckle guard is it's best feature tho. they should have used that bit and left off the thick rectangular part of the guard. the blade looks too short and the point is way too obtuse. example below.

it is an award to be treasured by those who actually won and were presented with them, a tribute to their performance at the ecole, but the school could have used a better design. it looks like it was designed by a committee. the spanish swords with their proximity to the iberian arab world and morocco may be closer. example also below.

or the itlaian connections mentioned earlier, as in my falchion (sharp repro) way below which is even better.

[Jim McDougall]

These Ecole swords are indeed pretty unattractive and of course intended only for ceremonial or parade use, but their rarity is probably the most compelling factor for collectors. They are intriguing curiosities and seem to have some degree of connection in some fraternal type weapons, which are also gaining in popularity in collecting.

Good points on the Nasrid broadsword shown, and these swords may well have been what prompted Charles Buttin's suggestion for Spanish origin of these quillon arrangements. There was of course as mentioned considerable interaction between Italy and Spain through royal and diplomatic channels through the centuries, so tight similarities are not surprising.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

These Ecole swords are indeed pretty unattractive and of course intended only for ceremonial or parade use, but their rarity is probably the most compelling factor for collectors. They are intriguing curiosities and seem to have some degree of connection in some fraternal type weapons, which are also gaining in popularity in collecting.

Good points on the Nasrid broadsword shown, and these swords may well have been what prompted Charles Buttin's suggestion for Spanish origin of these quillon arrangements. There was of course as mentioned considerable interaction between Italy and Spain through royal and diplomatic channels through the centuries, so tight similarities are not surprising.


Salaams Jim, Regarding quillons; The quillon style on North African Nimcha appears as a tear drop type whereas in Zanzibar Nimcha they are often Zoomorphic in design. Could it be that design structure was very much the domain of local fashion/craftsmanship allowing this form to flourish on Indian Ocean basin weapons. This form of quillon appears on Indian/Afghan Tulvar, Castane and Nimcha. The North African version takes its design from Italian and or Spanish design as a tear drop.

Pommels; I suggest that each of the variations in the two otherwise very similar weapons carries localized form including the pommel differences and gilded designs from similar African comb types as well as the zoomorphic shape atop the Zanzibar pommel (a Turtle?) the silver crown shaped ring at above the cross guard, the geometric straight lines in the pommel similar to the Castane, and the lionesque form of pommel with wide open mouth...

Blades...Help!! ...Does anyone have a stock answer to the variation in blades as the one below looks like an Afghan style stamp (1X1)...Naturally being based on a Hub... The Zanzibar Hub ...there was vast potential in blade supply and variation from European to Indian, Sri Lankan to Afghan etc... There is in addition the possibility of artisans from Sri Lanka actually working in Zanzibar putting the sword together in some sort of coordinated workshops? (although we have no knowledge of a Royal Workshop it is highly likely there was one)

Regional Players... All the major players were in the Indian Ocean and the EIC was known to have sword blades circulating from Bombay...The Portuguese who invented the term "Bombay" were prolific in trade dealing all around the region and particularly the Comores, Madagascar et al. French intervention in the late 19thC was also instrumental and must be considered when looking at this weapons development as is the probable input via Cairo and the Red Sea both the latter situations underlining the possible design flow of Algerian style...when many revolutionaries were banished to New Caledonia and the Comores..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All,

Please note that Buttin placed three magnificent charts of swords containing what we term Nimcha and other weapons of various geographical areas; African, Arab and Oriental. I place all three here for reference.

I assume Buttin had all the swords in front of him and photographed. I see that he notes the Zanzibar Ivory hilt with gold decoration as Oriental. What link does he mean with the inclusion of the axes and how does that relate with the Ottoman Yatagan weapons with the eared pommels? ...

He pictures presumably for comparison and suggestion of a linkage with Castane and other derivatives... suggesting a design link which I find fascinating... but no linkage to other Indian weapons such as Tulvar on the Quillon question...but so far as I can see no details on point of manufacture. Neither does he appear to make a hypothesis on the actual link between North African and Zanzibari styles which is the sign of a great researcher leaving perhaps a later student to accomplish that task... Note also the placement of the Omani Dancing swords and Terrs Shield in the Africa section understandably because of the Zanj/Zanzibar involvement of Said the Great...and perhaps since Burton also placed these as Zanzibari in his book; The Book of The Sword. :shrug:

Your input is requested.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.